I have an 11th level Ranger with the Archer spec. She utilizes both Rapid shot (-2 to all attacks) and Deadly Aim (-3 at 11th). This brings her attack down -5 places. I'm finding she misses too often. When time allows, she utilizes:
Cat's grace: +4 dex.
Aspect of the Raptor: +1 comp bonus to attack.
Instant Enemy: (When possible.)
What other spell options do peeps know of?
She have very limited gold resources but would like to have an item that permanently increases her attack.
She can afford:
Bracers of Archery +1 competence bonus. (This would not stack with Aspect of the Raptor though right?)
She does not have enough to buy :
Greater Bracers of Archery.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Don't you have an item with a permanent dexterity boost? The round you spend on casting Cat's Grace (+2 to hit) might well be less effective than a round of extra shooting if you have gloves of dexterity +2 (+1 to hit) as a permanent effect.
Also: do you have at least a masterwork bow? That's a cheap +1 to hit. A bow with a magical +1 enchantment would add a +1 to dmg to that.
For example if you started at level 1 with a 20 dex you would miss more than if you started out at level 1 wiht a 14 dex.
O___O
Not sure if serious...
lol!!
Excellent example of why "deadly aim" is, imho, the most overrated archer feat in the game.
Quick answer: "Don't use deadly aim".
Less quick answer: Check out every magic item and spell in the game that gives dex or ranged to hit bonuses and see which ones you can buy. Check out Bracers of the Falcon (Not sure that's right, but its the item that gives "Aspect of Falcon" effects).
Also, work with party members to have them debuff your targets.
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You know, I could actually use math to figure out the cause of your problem. I did the same for one of the players in my group when she decided two-weapon fighting and power attacking with longswords is better than just power attacking with her lucerne hammer.
To do this, I'd need to crunch all the numbers, though.
From experience, I'd say you'd be more effective if you'd choose between Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim, instead of trying both at once.
As for the magic items, try to always go for the next cheapest option. +1 longbow first for 2375 gp, followed by a +2 belt of incredible dexterity for 4000 gp, then the lesser bracers of archery for 5000 gp. You can then start to think about increasing the bonus of your longbow for 6000 gp, and so on.
One more thing, are you using herolabs?
She has an item that only gives +2 dexterity for a total of 21. I don't have the 16,000g to purchase the +4.
Her bow is +1 Icy burst (Treasure, not purchased.)
I am using Hero-Labs
Are you using favored enemy bonuses? Can you cast "instant enemy"?
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Hmm... In a standard campaign, a full BAB class with all the archery feats shouldn't have too much of a problem hitting targets, at least with your high-BAB attacks. (You did make dexterity your highest stat, right?) What kind of things are you fighting? Also, the first thing you put magic into should be Gloves/Belt of Dexterity and magically enhancing your bow. Standard wealth by level is 82,000, so if you sunk a little less than half of that into those two items, you could get a +4 belt (16,000) and a +3 bow (18,000). Bracers of Archery are great too, of course (assuming they stack with the competence bonus from Aspect of the Raptor). Consider selling or saving up for some of the above.
What do you consider missing "too much"? Are you doing less damage than the rest of the party? Also speaking of the party, you can ask them for help, too. Almost every caster has spells that can lower the AC of an enemy, typically through denying them their Dex or inflicting a status condition like blindness. In fact, you're a caster's best friend here - since a lot of debuffs only last until an enemy makes its save, being able to inflict massive amounts of damage on it in the meanwhile from anywhere on the field is extremely useful. Teamwork! (This applies to grappling for the melee types, too.)
EDIT: Hella ninja'd. I don't typically go for any of the burst enchantments unless I'm using a weapon with a high crit range - maybe you can somehow finagle your bow into a +2 icy instead of a +1 icy burst. (Sounds like something an item crafter could do for a nominal fee.)
When applicable I do use Favored Enemy.
Also, yes, I do use Instant Enemy. Short duration, but a huge boost to attack when it's on. (I did mention that in original post.)
By the way, thanks all for taking the time to hash this out with me.
Euugh. That bow is awful. Do you have the Reckless Aim feat? I'm quite fond of it really. +1 for Deadly Aim is overrated however with that Bow you won't be piercing any kind of DR.
I think your DM is purposefully trying to mitigate you in which case theres not much you can do. I'd recommend trying to trade your bow for a flat +3 one.
Also your weapon isn't even 30% of your character wealth which for martials is somewhat necessary.
Thanks Reynard.
I'd say she is only hitting 1/3 of the time. We are fighting lots of different creatures and when they are favored class i'm hitting more like 1/2 to 3/4 of the time. (The party is the in Rise of the Rune-Lord campaign.)
Yes, Dex is my highest.
Our wealth, I would guess, is close to that if I were to sell all my gear at full value rather than half.
Our party is very team oriented. They tend to buff the party and not de-buff since one is auto applicable and the other the enemy gain saves.
For example, we almost always have a Haste, Bless, and Prayer going.
Lol
Thanks Scavion. I'm thinking of doing what Reynard mentioned and selling some excess junk and doing as you say, straight up +3 bow.
Two possibilities here are:
1. You are hitting plenty, but want to hit more often anyway.
2. Your GM is deliberately throwing enemies at you that will negate your build.
There are more options, but ranger with the buffs and items you describe should be doing OK according to what I consider OK.
The generally prescribed tactic for full archers is to stop using deadly aim if you are missing a lot. What "missing a lot" means is different for different players.
What other equipment/gear do you have? Don't count actual GP or trade goods.
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Sounds to me like you're doing OK. With 5 or 6 attacks, hitting 1/3 of the time still means a fair amount of damage, especially if that figure included deadly aim. And against your favored enemies, it sounds like you can really dish out the hurt. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Another item you could get would be a 3rd level Pearl of Power (9000GP) for moar Instant Enemy. Mmm, bonuses.
Mithral Chain shirt of Shadows +1
Boots of Springing and Striding
Belt strength +2
Headband of Wisdom +2
Ring Protection +1
Golembane Scarab
Efficient Quiver
Snakeskin shirt that gives +2 dexterity and some other bonus I don't remember.
That's pretty much it.
I think I might have a +1 spear in the quiver too. (Plus a few +1 arrows.)
I think I need to strong arm our Mage to become a Craft Wondrous Item caster.
LOL,
I just read Reckless Aim Scavion. I think my party would give me the boot if I used that! Could be nice to use in conjunction with Summon Monster though.
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I am using Hero-Labs
Good news! I've found the problem and came up with a solution!
Stop using herolabs and learn to make a character yourself instead of trying to let a computer do the work for you. You have to learn to walk before you run.
I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that a player in my group is making exactly the same mistakes as you are and she's also using herolabs.
Okay, I might be taking it out on you a little bit. Can you forgive me?
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I am surprised. My RotRL Ranger seems to be on a similar (though slightly different) build and I do not miss that much.
On average, against non-favored enemies, I hit with 3 arrows out of the 5 I am firing in one round : 2 with manyshot, 1 with rapid shot, 2 with iterative attacks.
You might be interested by the Helm of the Stag Lord (and worship Erastil, which is usually appropriate for an archer ranger). For a mere 3 500 gp, you can cause a target to be considered flat-footed against one of your attack 3 times a day (only once a day if you do not worship Old Deadeye).
What are your stats and feats (and traits) ?
By my math you should have 21,300 gp more of wealth for your character. Was that every single thing that your character has on them? Your short about 1/4 of your total wealth.
Can I see your stats as well?
Is your Bow Composite?
Err, David, my gaming crew makes me use Hero labs. This is my first chr I've ever used it on and only from 10th lv on.... I have to say i like it and find it a powerful tool to keep track of multiple buffs and de-buffs. I still build my character on paper first though and then transfer it to Hero-labs.
Did you go with the Pet or Group hunting bonus?
your pet can learn the Aid trick to Aid Other on you for another +2
A Smart Pet (Int 3+) can learn Gang up and Team up letting him use Aid another as a Move action so he keeps his own attack.
If you can convince your other party members to burn the feat you get get another +2 out of Enfilading Fire teamwork feat. I think only one of them needs to have it. Could give it to your Pet if it's a smart pet.
If you want to take the Risk you can go for False Opening. If you don't get hit by the AOO your target looses his Dex bonus
From your level and the Icy Burst Bow you're carrying I believe you are either at the very end of book 3 or starting book 4...?
The rest of my post will contain spoilers for book 3 so if you haven't played that far, you probably shouldn't read it:
My party is going through RotRL part 3 at the moment, they're level 10 and
The high point AC-wise was an advanced hill giant (AC 26), Lamatar Bayden (AC 28) and Black Magga (AC 30). Other than that that most of the enemies (mostly trolls, half-ogres and ogres, assorted giants) have had low to middling AC. 16-23 seems to be the span with occasional outliers as noted above.
Would it be possible for you to give us a bit more information about your character and your party? I realize it's a bit of a pain to type out but if you could list the other classes in the party, your race, your ability scores, feats, favored enemies, gear and total unbuffed attack bonus all in one post it'd be easier to get to the bottom of your issue.
In the meantime I'll speculate and guess it's something like this:
+11 base attack bonus from 11 levels of Ranger
+5 Dexterity
+1 Point Blank Shot
+2 Bow
+6 Favored Enemy (Giant)
= a bonus of +25 on your first shot, +19 on your second.
-2 for Rapid Shot and -3 from Deadly Aim you'd be looking at +20 +20 +14 before buffs. Against the highest AC in book 3 you would be hitting with 10s (or 7s if you dropped deadly aim), and that fight is not designed to be beatable. That's respectable and hopefully you'll have some other sources of buffs as well.
Overall some of the time you shouldn't be using both feats though - you will encounter enemies that had time to buff up and/or have unusually high AC and when you do hits are more important than the extra damage.
I have not seen that Helmet Black Stag. Very cool!!! That would totally help! She does Worship Erastil.
Yeah Scavion, other than 1600g in potions and mundane weapons and arrows, that's it. Oh, and a horse too.
I think we are just low on gold because we tend to blow through most of the creatures the Module has thrown at us. The crew is pretty well experienced and work really well together. Also, we have an Alchemist who just mows stuff down.
So, over-all i think the DM has kept the total gold down because we are handling everything just fine. I simply feel like I'm not doing my part.
As per Black Raven, perhaps I am hitting the amount of times i should. It just seems to me I'm not...perception probably.
STR 14/16
DEX 19/21 (will be 20/22 next lv.)
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 14/16
CHA 8
FEATS: Wpn focus Long Composite bow
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Deadly Aim
Pinpoint Targeting
Boone Companion
Traits: Magical Talent (Ghost Sound)
Warrior of Old (+2 to initiative)
Hey Kudaku, very useful advice. My pet is "smart"; that is my wolf has a 3 Intelligence so she can learn new feats. She has Step-up and Outflank, as do the Paly and the Warrior in the party. Great recommendation on Enfilading Fire teamwork feat. I've not heard of it before. I'll do that.
My ranger does have Fav. Enemy Giant +6
Lng Comp Bow +1 Frost Bursting (soon to be a +3)
Oops, Sorry Greylurker, that was your advice on the Enfilading Fire teamwork feat feat for my wolf.
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Err, David, my gaming crew makes me use Hero labs. This is my first chr I've ever used it on and only from 10th lv on.... I have to say i like it and find it a powerful tool to keep track of multiple buffs and de-buffs. I still build my character on paper first though and then transfer it to Hero-labs.
Okay, my bad. I'll check the math on your character tomorrow.
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FEATS: Wpn focus Long Composite bow
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Point Blank Shot
Improved Point Blank Shot
Deadly Aim
Pinpoint Targeting
Boone Companion
I do not see Precise Shot and its Improved version. If you do not have them, you are looking at pretty heavy penalties to your to-hit.
Also I do not know what Improved Point Blank Shot is.
No worries mr. In a way, i agree. It has caught a few errors I made though. Still, thanks for taking the time to reply. Don't worry about doing the math though. I've gotten a lot of great advice to work with. It sounds like my ranger is doing too bad. I'll increase my attack by +2 just by selling my current bow and getting the +3. When my wolf can next get a feat, i'll be able to utilize the Enfilading Fire teamwork feat too.
lol, whoops,
yes Black Raven, I missed them.
add Precise Shot
and "Improved Point Blank" should read "Improved Precise Shot".
I edited old post.
I don't see any real flaws in your build (other than a low dexterity for your level, but thats mostly a WBL issue), so I don't really know what to say. On level 11 you get your 3rd attack from BAB which will most likely miss...
Either your GM has been cranking up the opposition (which imho seems fair since your group seems well-coordinated and not particularly challenged), or it could be a perception issue (ie you notice misses more than hits and with the 3rd iterative attack you'll most likely miss at least once per round), or finally it could just be that you're using rapid shot / deadly aim a bit too much.
They are a very potent combination but they're also useful feats in their own right - you don't always have to use both, or indeed use any of them if you're fighting something that has a high AC.
In general you consider what you're shooting at and maybe ask for Knowledge checks to get an idea about the AC of whatever it is you're fighting - as an example giants and (most) spellcasters tend to be easy to hit and should get the full volley.
Interesting idea Sir Thug.
Kudaku, i think you are touching on several good points. After reading all the posts yesterday, several peeps said they think the hit percentage is on par. So, yeah, probably just perception. Also, I'll be more selective when she uses both Rapid shot and Deadly aim. And also, the GM has said a couple of times that he has to beef up the competition so we are moderately challenged.
Thanks again for all the advice everyone. This was my first post. Great community here!
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Actually, I was wrong. Very wrong, ahem, sorry.
Here are my calculations, the results surprised me.
Normal (0.7+0.45+0.20)x(1d8+1d6+4)
1.35x12=16.2
Crit 0.05x1.35x28=1.89
Total DPR 18,09
Rapid Shot + Many Shot
(0.6+0.6+0.6+0.35+0.1)x(1d8+1d6+4)
2.25x12=27
Crit 0,05x1.65x28=2.31
Total DPR 29.31
Deadly Aim
(0.55+0.3+0,05)x(1d8+1d6+10)
0.9x18=16.2
Crit 0.05x0.9x40=1.8
Total DPR 18
Rapid Shot + Many Shot + Deadly Aim
(0.45+0,45+0,45+0.2+0.05)x(1d8+1d6+10)
1.6x18=28,8
Crit 0,05x1.15x40=2.3
Total DPR 31,1
+3 longbow
(0,55+0.55+0.55+0.3+0.05)x(1d8+12)
2x16.5=33
Crit 0.05x1.45x33=2.3925
Total DPR 35.3925
Now you have to keep in mind, this is an analysis based on the assumption that you'll face an AC of 25. That should be average for your level. I didn't use other factors such as Damage Reduction and Energy Resistance, nor did I factor in Favored Enemies and Point Blank Shot as those are conditional.
I Think I got all of the mistakes I made, but I'm not sure.
The best thing to do is actually using Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot and Many Shot at the same time. That's the best way to get the highest Damage Per Round.
The rest is tactics. Perhaps, instead of getting a +3 longbow it's wiser to get a +2 longbow, lesser bracers of archery and to put the rest of the money toward a better belt of dexterity. (Though you had the shirt instead) You could ask the spellcasters to use more debuffs, specifically against armor class.
Skip the lesser bracers of archery and get Bracers of Falcon's Aim. They're quite excellent. And cheap. As time goes on, look to pick up Clustered Shots; this helps a lot against damage reduction.
Wow,
Thanks again for all the work guys. I hope it didn't take you all forever to do the math there. You guys/gals rock!
Sad news, my ranger's friend and brave companion Kai died while defending the party from undead hill giants. A wolf should die out in the forests under the moon and stars, not in a dang cave to be consumed by the mindless dead.
BTW, it is only a short-term solution, but if it IS a big problem, the party mage or cleric could cast greater magic weapon, essentially making your bow a +3 bow of whatever for the next 10 minutes. IIRC the spell doesn´t suppress the other magical attributes of the weapon and just gives you the extra +s if its caster level is high enough.
Edit: woops, I saw below that you sold some stuff for a +3 bow.
This is how my ranger gained her animal companion.
Sister Wolf
As we leave the goblin’s domain, I spot two wolf b$*+&es; magnificent creatures. They watch us from the shadows of a ledge. I can only just make them out. I have always admired the wolf. They are a dangerous and beautiful animal, intensely loyal to their pack, yet eminently capable alone. I hope they feast upon any stray goblin they come across. I do not tell the rest of my party of their presence. I trust them with my life, but I do not know them well enough to trust them with the lives of these beautiful creatures.
We travel till night and set up camp. We eat a quick meal of hard biscuits and goats milk and immediately fall asleep.
I awake, my heart thunders in my chest and tears wet my cheeks. I have just had an intense dream. My secret wolves hung up in trees, their blood black in the moonlight. Though I do not know why, I know I must seek them. Perhaps it is the will of Erastil that drives me. My will is not my own. Silently I leave the Temple grounds and race into the night. These are dangerous lands. I should not be alone. Yet go I must.
It is a clear night and the moon shines her silver caress over the forest. The shadows are deep and fill my heart with terror. What is this? I have never felt this way before. I have always felt more at home in the forest than in the confines of any city save Iadara. What is it I fear?
Without the burden of the others, I swiftly reach the Goblin’s domain. I pick up the wolfs’ tracks where I last saw them. Arrow nocked, I silently begin to track them; my terror builds. This is no condition to hunt in. Mentor Kaerdyn would frown and order me back into the safety of the city’s walls. She could see his scarred face, his stern blue eyes, his quiet flat voice as he taught, “Emotionless you must track your quarry. You must lose yourself in the heartbeat of every moment, for in hate or fear, your emotion will betray you. This will be the death of the very thing you seek to protect.”
I stop in the moon shadow of a great oak and try to calm myself. should go back. Even as I see and hear Mentor Kaerdyn ordering me back in my mind's eye, I know I can not. Breathing slow and intentionally, I focus my will and try to drive this fear into a corner where I can not see or feel it. I focus my senses to the night forest. I must see it, smell it, become one with it and know all its subtle movement and sense all that is danger and let this fear breathe past like dandelion seeds.
Better; I feel calmer. I can feel the fear pacing back behind my eyes, but it no longer dominates. It is not perfect, but a state near to that which my Mentor would approve. It is good enough. I begin to follow the tracks again. They are fresh. I suspect the wolves spent the day in the shadow of the ledge and then crept out with the setting of the sun to hunt.
I continue to track them. Within minutes I hear them; or perhaps one of them. There, behind that thick brush, I can hear harsh panting, something is not right. I creep around and find both wolves sprawled out on the ground. Both have a thick froth coating their muzzles, their jaws wide and swollen tongues lolling out. Neither wolf is conscious. On the ground is a leg of a deer, tied to a stake in the ground with a poorly made rope. The leg has been savaged by the wolves. Poison. In a panic I rush to the wolves, my fear braking past my controls again. This was what my fear had been. Fear for the wolves, not for herself. “No. No. No.” I hear myself moan.
Dead, one is already dead. Tears stream from my eyes. The other, the larger of the two is not far from death. Its labored breathing is shallow and harsh. I clear the froth from its muzzle and angle its neck to improve airflow. Its coat is a deep grey, almost black. Her sister is identical. "Twins." a strange and detached voice inside says and fresh tears course down my face. “Erastil, why have you shown me this?” I moan to the forest and bury my face in the wolf’s coat. I scour my memories for a way to help the wolf. All rangers train to defend the Elven capitol are trained in rudimentary healing, but poisons were barely touched upon. Silently I prayed to Erastil to help, to help me help this wolf. I bury my hands into its deep coat and will the poison to leave its body.
A blue light glows where my hands touch the wolf’s body. Has Erastil answered her? Sobbing I pressed my hands to the wolf and move them to its stomach and up to its throat and tongue. Slowly, the wolf’s breathing improves. The wolf will live! Quickly I move to the other wolf. I place my hands upon it as I did the other and will the poison gone. Nothing; the glow does not come and no breath of life comes to the dead beast.
I hang my head; and cry for a short time. But I fell purged, at peace. Life and death, the great circle; I have seen great wonder and tragedy this night. I move to the living wolf and am thankful she is unconscious. Her breathing is no stronger than when last checked. A shadow of fear rises again. Perhaps Erastil has not given her the power to heal the wolf, just to slow the poison from spreading? “I will not let this wolf die!” I growl to the forest.
I began to pick up the wolf; then an intuition stays me. I draw my knife and cut a large handful of long fur from the dead sister’s neck scruff. I will use this to help this daughter of Erastil calm. I stuff the fur into a pouch and lean down to lift the wolf. The wolf is heavy, but not yet fully grown. I can feel the weak heartbeat and use it to march by. It will be a long and difficult walk back to the abbey, but there I can get help for this creature; for my sister.
I almost always have Aspect of the Hawk on, so don't need to cast Keen, but yeah, Flame Arrow would be awesome!