For those that didn't get to see it last night... Marvel's Ant-Man teaser trailer.
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For those that didn't get to see it last night... Marvel's Ant-Man teaser trailer.There's already a paizo thread :)
I didn't know that at the time... I had just popped in to this thread and put in the link. But it's cool... the more exposure the teaser gets, the better...
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It wasn't bad but there's room for improvement. I'm on the fence... I love the young Jarvis as a sidekick but hoping this will move from SSR to SHIELD sooner than later.
Also, hoping to see Dum Dum Dugan and the rest again... and more Stark.
The teaser for upcoming episodes at the end of the last night's premiere had a split second shot of Dum Dum. I don't know how many of the other Howling Commandos we can expect to see.
I liked the episode. The sexism seemed a little heavy, but I wasn't around back then, so I can't say with any authority if it was unrepresentatively so.
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Sexism was rampant. Never mind that many of these women were doing jobs that men left behind when they went to war. They just got displaced when the men returned home to pick up where they left off.
I have to agree this was a much better start than Agents of SHIELD had. Right into the thick of things. Of course, we're dealing with a character we already know from the first Cap movie, and no need for team building and such.
So... ummm... I haven't seen the Winter Soldier. *braces for impact*
I also didn't see the premier of Agent Carter. I have been away from TV for a couple days so I intend to catch up on Hulu. Is there enough of a summary in the premier that I don't need to watch Cap: WS, or can someone spoiler a summary if you think I need one to get into the show? All I know of Carter is that she's the precursor to S H I E L D from watching AoS TV show.
It's okay. You don't have to watch winter soldier.
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It's okay. You don't have to watch winter soldier.
Minor spoilery response:
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Possibly...
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one more thing: there's one episode of "Marvel: Agents of SHIELD" that shows Agent Carter briefly between the time Steve Rogers was lost at sea and the time she joined her current assignment in SSR. In that brief appearance she's with the Howling Commandos retrieving stolen artifacts from a secret Nazi stash: one of those artifacts is the subject of the entire second season of "Marvel: Agents of SHIELD"
You don't need to know about this other than knowing that she did lots of other missions with the Commandos after Steve Rogers was lost, and before she got her less than satisfactory "secretary / you're just a women / the war is over get over it" assignment at SSR.
Therefore, this means there could be some Agent Carter episodes where we see pre-SSR flashbacks.
I liked it a lot. Even more than Agents of SHIELD.
The sad thing is there are still sexist guys just like that running around today... fortunately just a lot fewer of them. But every now and then you have to deal with one and it makes you want to scream.
I am curious how this going behind her bosses backs is going to play out... I mean in real life she would be fired if they found out, or worse. But clearly that isn't going to happen so something is going to happen. I wonder what they have planned.
I liked it a lot. Even more than Agents of SHIELD.
The sad thing is there are still sexist guys just like that running around today... fortunately just a lot fewer of them. But every now and then you have to deal with one and it makes you want to scream.
I am curious how this going behind her bosses backs is going to play out... I mean in real life she would be fired if they found out, or worse. But clearly that isn't going to happen so something is going to happen. I wonder what they have planned.
Ohhhhh she'll get fired all right. That will result in the change from SSR to SHIELD.
What I'm curious about is all those other background agents. Are any of the characters here besides Stark or Jarvis legitimate marvel characters?
Never been a big fan of SHIELD in the comics, so I may be missing something here :)
I don't think it's really worth having a new thread for an 8 episode series (two of which already aired) that basically serves as a precursor/extended prologue/flashback for an existing series.
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This thread has become more of a MCU thread than anything and I'm ok with that.
To give this show it's own due I've started up a new thread for it.
Agent Carter
I 100% support creating a separate Agent Carter thread.
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Watched the first episode. There are some things to like about it, and Carter seems likea much more interesting character than most in AoS.
There was a "theme" I picked on, can't imagine what it means though - at least twice in the episode, a character says something to the effect of "you can't know if something will be good until you tried it." The first I noticed is when she is seducing that Spider guy, she enters the room and asks if this is a bad time, he answers that they can't know until it's over (or something like it). Second time is when she talks with Jarvis and asks him if what she is doing is worth it - again, he gives a very similar answer of "you couldn't know until it's over". The two instances (might have been more that I missed) were too similar to be coincidence. Now figuring out what the writers are trying to tell us is a bit more tricky. Probably it's just setting her up to gather the courage to start her own secret government agency.
There were a couple of decisions I approve of less than others. For example having Carter use her womanly wiles to get a job done does not seem to be the ideal choice when a major theme of the story so far is the sexism she has to endure - the show should do it's best to prove to us that Carter can get the job done without relaying on being a woman. Now we do get that later in the episode, but the first major action scene sees her using looks to manipulate man. I want to stress that I don't think there's anything wrong with it morally or even that it really devalues the character - she is using all the tools she has - but that it does not work well to make a contrast to the disregard her fellow intelligence agents are showing.
Also, I am not really sold on Carter as an action hero. I think the fight scenes are not nearly as good as in AoS and the actress herself is not very convincing at them - she is a bit too static, sort of standing in place and punching. She does not seem to have a fighting pose when she does, she simply stands there. The best fight scene, with the assassin in her room, had it's own issue - somewhat sloppy directing really made it apparent that when she is supposed to be dragging him to toss him out of the window, she is actually just grabbing his shirt as he runs besides her. I don't usually notice this kind of thing and I think the only reason I did here is that the scene really was poorly directed.
Other than those two minor quips the show was surprisingly enjoyable.
I think that may be purposeful. It's very reminiscent of action scenes from movies actually made in that time period.
Watched both Carter episodes last night. Its fun, bouncy and what not, but a little too shiny for my tastes. The softcore porn lighting, the blatant "men are bad in 1946" themes, it's a tad much. I feel like this should be running on Lifetime, a cable channel of woman empowerment.
I have nothing against women. Some of my best friends are women. I have 2 daughters and love my wife dearly. I not only think they can do jobs equally well as men but have had this proven to me personally on many occasions.
There have been a few shows though that have portrayed this era and strong feminine characters without the idea that they're "tough as nails and take no guff from a man." The English show about the women of Bletchley leaps to mind. In such shows it's not about bashing men but rather empowering women; there's a difference.
That being said this is a network show catering to a certain demographic so I suppose cardboard sets and shiny action is expected. I guess I like the show in the same way as I liked comic books when I was a little kid; there's something fun to see in every pannel.
I do miss AoS though. There's a grit to it that Carter doesn't have. Agent Carter is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
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I actually like the idea that she exploits men's preconceived notion that women are harmless (i.e. when she eavesdrop on her colleagues' meeting by bringing coffee, and when she seduces Spider).
This is one of the most realistic part of the show and why women spies were so bloody effective back then (because everyone expected spies to be sinister men snooping around your office while mumbling things in German or Russian...)
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Watched both Carter episodes last night. Its fun, bouncy and what not, but a little too shiny for my tastes. The softcore porn lighting, the blatant "men are bad in 1946" themes, it's a tad much. I feel like this should be running on Lifetime, a cable channel of woman empowerment.
I have nothing against women. Some of my best friends are women. I have 2 daughters and love my wife dearly. I not only think they can do jobs equally well as men but have had this proven to me personally on many occasions.
There have been a few shows though that have portrayed this era and strong feminine characters without the idea that they're "tough as nails and take no guff from a man." The English show about the women of Bletchley leaps to mind. In such shows it's not about bashing men but rather empowering women; there's a difference.
That being said this is a network show catering to a certain demographic so I suppose cardboard sets and shiny action is expected. I guess I like the show in the same way as I liked comic books when I was a little kid; there's something fun to see in every pannel.
I do miss AoS though. There's a grit to it that Carter doesn't have. Agent Carter is a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
The porn lighting was such in those times, in movies.
As for sexism, it was rampant and in your face in 1946. It's an accurate representation.
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I'm a huge fan of movies set in that time period (or earlier), with all the suits and old cars and period dialogue and whatever, but this didn't quite do it for me. I definitely agree that it started out stronger than Agents of SHIELD, but it felt to me like it relied too heavily on flashbacks to Captain America.
I want to like Agent Carter more than I do, so far.
It did make me want to go back and watch The Thirteenth Floor, the Rocketeer, etc. again. :)
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Watched both Carter episodes last night. Its fun, bouncy and what not, but a little too shiny for my tastes. The softcore porn lighting, the blatant "men are bad in 1946" themes, it's a tad much. I feel like this should be running on Lifetime, a cable channel of woman empowerment.
I have nothing against women. Some of my best friends are women. I have 2 daughters and love my wife dearly. I not only think they can do jobs equally well as men but have had this proven to me personally on many occasions.
There have been a few shows though that have portrayed this era and strong feminine characters without the idea that they're "tough as nails and take no guff from a man." The English show about the women of Bletchley leaps to mind. In such shows it's not about bashing men but rather empowering women; there's a difference.
Well, the show did maybe go a bit far with the whole abused waitress sideplot, but other than that I didn't have an issue. It makes sense that they want to portray Carter as starting from the lowest point possible to her - grieving the loss of Steve Rogers and being sidelined by everyone in her environment. Accomplishing this by having her cope with sexism is acceptable enough. I expect that sexism will play less of a role as the show progresses.
As for sexism, it was rampant and in your face in 1946. It's an accurate representation.
I don't really care about the realism of sexism. It was still heavy-handed and a bit annoying.
I REALLY... REALLY REALLY hope that Agent Carter has more going for it then just 'I'm a woman... Look what I CAN DO!!!' Because honestly, I've SEEN that show before. That show is EVERYWHERE nowdays.
I want to see some kickbutt action. Some superspy 'james bond' type gadgets like they hinted at in AoS...
The whole 'origin of SHIELD' and combining 1940's tech with Stark ingenuity could be AWESOME... I just hope they focus more on that. Keep some of the sexism in there to show that it was there... but don't make EVERY scene and EVERY action either ABOUT it, or in RESPONSE to it...
So far they are skirting the line a little close... I enjoyed what I saw but I can see some red flags that it may get really boring really quick...
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Umnn. realistically, when she takes the fork to the diner patron, the cops should have been picking her up soon thereafter. It's all well and good for an Agent of Shield with a fancy badge to threaten to murder someone like that, but a chick who works at the telephone company? Not on my dime, toots.
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Umnn. realistically, when she takes the fork to the diner patron, the cops should have been picking her up soon thereafter. It's all well and good for an Agent of Shield with a fancy badge to threaten to murder someone like that, but a chick who works at the telephone company? Not on my dime, toots.
Except, in this instance the sexism of the time is working for her.
He would be unwilling to admit to have been so bested by "a chick who works at the telephone company" for fear of being a laughing stock.
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There's also a very real question of what the guy would tell the cops.
"That chick tried to kill me with this fork!"
"...A fork?"
"Yeah! She said she was going to stick it into my vertical armory!"
"This woman here. The one who looks to be about a buck fifteen soaking wet."
"Yeah!"
"...I see, sir. Did anyone else witness this exchange?"
"Well, we were right in the middle of the diner!"
"Very well. Excuse me, everyone! Did any of you see this woman threaten this man with... this fork?"
[Chorus of "uh, no?" and the like.]
"Okay then. Sir, I think you'd best consider taking your coffee with fewer... additives... in the future. Ma'am, you're free to go, sorry for the trouble."
Umnn. realistically, when she takes the fork to the diner patron, the cops should have been picking her up soon thereafter. It's all well and good for an Agent of Shield with a fancy badge to threaten to murder someone like that, but a chick who works at the telephone company? Not on my dime, toots.
I doubt the guy wants to go to the cops and say he was threatened by a woman with a fork....
I'm sure he would say it was a knife.
Just don't think an a!~!*~% like that would let that "buck fifteen" get the better of him in a society where he holds all the power. And if you think the cops would take her side, I think you missed all the sexism in the show.
That same sexism is exactly what would cause the cops to take her side.
Who are you going to believe:
-This fat schlub hanging out at a diner.
-The poor, defenseless, meek woman who breaks down in tears at your questioning.
Recall that the sexism is entirely directed at women being unsuited for most work both in temperament and physical ability.
The guy would be laughed at and mocked incessantly by the police, especially since he's entirely uninjured.
"What, so some broad shook a fork at you, and you come cryin' to me? Get your ass outta here, dough boy."
Given that he was later shown to be one of the bad guys (not sure if he was Leviathan or just a crook) he probably didn't want the attention. He might have been planning some form of revenge, but it most likely wouldn't have been using cops.
Given that he was later shown to be one of the bad guys (not sure if he was Leviathan or just a crook) he probably didn't want the attention. He might have been planning some form of revenge, but it most likely wouldn't have been using cops.
I think you are mixing him up with another character. He was never shown as a bad guy, and was only seen in the couple of scenes in the diner
Sure but a big meh. It's now obvious that the guy with crutches is gonna be her boyfriend.
I think they are intentionally setting up the audience to expect that
My evidence-less hunch is that Sousa is either going to turn traitor to get his leg back (Leviathan probably has the capabilities), or has been a double agent the whole time.
I think Carter's future husband is going to end up being the other young agent in the SSR, who will be much more supportive once Carter "proves herself".
Sure but a big meh. It's now obvious that the guy with crutches is gonna be her boyfriend.I think they are intentionally setting up the audience to expect that
My evidence-less hunch is that Sousa is either going to turn traitor to get his leg back (Leviathan probably has the capabilities), or has been a double agent the whole time.
I think Carter's future husband is going to end up being the other young agent in the SSR, who will be much more supportive once Carter "proves herself".
I'm terribly suspicious of the oh so conveniently helpful Agent Sousa myself. Nice that HE had the photos that somehow didn't show Carter, and interesting that he was also in the locker room when she was looking for the vita-ray detector....
EDIT: Hm, he could also be working for Stark and covering for Carter.
I haven't seen the 3rd ep yet. Sousa I think will end up being bad. He's too conveniently good at the right moments in the show, plus he has a deformity. Isn't that what Samuel L Jackson's character said in Unbreakable? Something about how deformity or weakness helps identify a villain in a comic book?
Also, for everyone in this thread that tells me sexism was THAT blatant in 1946: you were alive in 1946? I guess it wouldn't be so bad if the men were portrayed as anything but villains, oafs or idiots in the first 2 episodes. I suppose I'll need to reserve some judgment for #3 though.
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Men were sexists but also carried a greater burden: a man who failed to bring home the bacon was seen as an abject failure by the close knit communities. So yes on sexism but also yes on self pride and sense of honor and sacrifice for wife and kids above all.
The concept of having 30+ year old men living in their mothers basement was non existent. You were pushed out of the nest very early and if you had no skill/talent/education you were expected to go to the logging camp throughout winter to earn money. Come back in the spring to a pregnant wife most likely...
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I like that the men aren't useless though.
Are you implying that they are in Agents of Shield? I don't think I entirely get your meaning here...
Men were sexists but also carried a greater burden: a man who failed to bring home the bacon was seen as an abject failure by the close knit communities. So yes on sexism but also yes on self pride and sense of honor and sacrifice for wife and kids above all.
The concept of having 30+ year old men living in their mothers basement was non existent. You were pushed out of the nest very early and if you had no skill/talent/education you were expected to go to the logging camp throughout winter to earn money. Come back in the spring to a pregnant wife most likely...
And women were also kicked out of the nest to get married at about the same age. It's not a case of men being sexist it's a case of society as a whole being sexist and forcing very strict gender roles on everyone.
Having said that, were I to live in that time period, I'd much rather be a man than a woman - much more so than today.
EDIT: noticed the phrasing of that was a bit weird :P
I mean that it was still vastly preferable to be a man than a woman, because while you had your own hardships to face you also had a considerably greater degree of freedom and amount of respect from your surroundings.