Hello all, first post.
I was looking for some advice for a (obviously sub-optimal) fighting halfling chef who throws butcher knives and wields a frying pan in combat. I'm building the character around a feat in a 3rd party book called 'Frying pan mastery'. To have it, you need 'catch off guard', and you get +2 to hit with a frying pan.
I was thinking of using the 'hidefoot' variant halfling that gives a +2 to con instead of cha.
My starting stats would be something like
ST 16
DX 16
CON 15
INT 13
WIS 7 (because let's be honest, how wise is it to go into battle with housewares? I'll likely pick up iron will at some point to compensate.)
CHA 7 (i'm picturing him as a curmudgeonly gordon ramsay/lenny henry type chef)
Feat chain- Catch off guard, frying pan mastery, combat expertise, improved disarm (to knock weapons away- unarmed foes are flat footed against me!)
Okay, so here's where you guys come in. I was thinking either free-hand fighter or rogue. Which is better? Is there a better option i haven't thought of? Good traits? Feats? Obviously, this is a zany character, but I'd like to surprise people with what he's capable of.
Any tips?
Rough and Ready trait seems made for you.
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I don't usually play favorites when I attack party members, but when I do?
Its against anyone who's build concept includes the term 'wacky'
If you're looking for a tip... That's all I can say...
Just kidding and welcome to the threads!
Great tip on rough and ready! Also, I stumbled upon 'surprise weapon' which adds another +2 for improvised weapons. I think this build actually has some potential! I think I'm going to use rogue for sneak attack damage when my foes are flat-footed, (as they will often be re. 'catch off guard')
Talk your GM into letting you "cook" potions via brew potion feat and your chicken soup will be the hit of the party (cure wounds)
After some consideration, I've decided to go with swashbuckler rogue, with an eye toward the 'master chef' prestige class from 'the quintessential halfling'.
I didn't expect it to, but I ran the numbers and it looks like this little guy will be a force to be reckoned with! Who knew!
themanfromsaturn wrote: After some consideration, I've decided to go with swashbuckler rogue, with an eye toward the 'master chef' prestige class from 'the quintessential halfling'.
I didn't expect it to, but I ran the numbers and it looks like this little guy will be a force to be reckoned with! Who knew!
I would seriously consider a monk of the empty hand/underfoot adept (another monk kit) Think pint sized Jackie Chan.
Here are a few things to consider:
Fighting trait:
Surprise Weapon: You are skilled at fighting with objects not traditionally considered weapons. You gain a +2 trait bonus on attack rolls with improvised weapons.
Equipment trait:
Rough and Ready: When you use a tool of your trade (requiring at least 1 rank in the appropriate Craft or Profession skill) as a weapon, you do not take the improvised weapon penalty and instead receive a +1 trait bonus on your attack. This trait is commonly used with shovels, picks, blacksmith hammers, and other sturdy tools — lutes and brooms make terribly fragile weapons.
Combat Feat:
Equipment trick, rope: Tangle (Throw Anything): You can throw a coiled length of rope as a ranged weapon. If you hit with a ranged touch attack, the target becomes entangled. It can cut or burst the rope, or escape with a DC 15 Escape Artist check. The rope must be unsecured to use this trick.
Good luck!
I still like the Breaker Barbarian approach.
Blackbloodtroll- Why do you recommend the breaker barbarian? I see that it does bonus damage with improv weapons, but the way i see it, the sneak damage form rogue is going to amount to a LOT more. (my build is going to result in a LOT of flat-footed opponents) Is there something I'm overlooking?
Cazin- I'll take a look at underfoot adept. Thanks for the recommendations!
Also, I noticed 'improved weapon mastery'. PERFECT choice for my 11th level feat!
No.
Sneak Attack has nothing on the +1 bonus on damage rolls with improvised or broken weapons for every three levels beyond 3rd, and the bonus to strength.
Constant static bonuses to damage, that effect attacks to all opponents, compared to situational damage, that doesn't effect all opponents.
Sneak attack is a "wheee dice!" mechanic that is harder to get off than people realize, and usually a trap to players who think rolling a lot of dice means more damage.
A Wild Rager/Breaker Barbarian will out damage, the Rogue, and do it more often.
That's a fair point, and well made. however, I think between disarm+catch off guard and maxed-out acrobatics, i should be able to set up a lot of opportunities to use sneak attack.
I'll run some simulations and see what works better in practice. Thanks for expalining your recommendation, blackbloodtroll, it means a lot.
Catch-off Guard does not work against any with natural weapons.
Besides, Barbarian Halfing fits your "wacky" theme.
I'd go with barbarian, but give him a ridiculously low Profession (cook) bonus. His rages could key off people who criticize his cooking. Better yet, see if your GM will let you turn one of the rage/skill powers (like raging swimmer) into something that buffs your cooking skills instead.
At level 7, take Leadership. Your cohort would be a barbarian sous chef, and your followers would all be experts.
Would an Emeril-style "BAM!" every time you crit with your frying pan be too cheesy?
I'd say go another direction. At the beginning of each fight, he could yell, "CAN YOU SMEEEEELLLL WHAT THE HALFLING IS COOKING?!"
A Raging Chef ... Anyone thinking Gordon Ramsey?
Also some critters will be immune to sneak but not to the consistant extra damge from the Barbarian.
... See if you can talk your GM into letting you undergo a special ritual to let you get the witch hexes Cauldron, and Cook People...
Wait, that was my halfling (who was a witch until he got cook people).
....
Bam!
just as a rules clarification:
rough and ready, and surprise weapon both grant a trait bonus to attacks- that means they do not stack.
You won't land disarms reliably enough to benefit from Catch Off Guard as a rogue. Go fighter or barbarian. Barbarian with Strength Surge is one of the best ways to land combat maneuvers. Magus with True Strike may be better at lower levels. Lore Warden Fighter is also pretty good. Nothing else need apply.
Suit him up in full plate and call him the Iron Chef.
I'm a little resistant to the idea of a barbarian just because i've never played one and i'm completely unfamiliar with how they work. Fighter is a legit option.
How about feinting instead of disarming to deny my opponents their dex bonuses and allowing sneak attacks? It isn't hard max out bluff for a halfling, and it doesn't seem like a lot of opponents would have crazy high sense motive.
nate lange wrote: just as a rules clarification:
rough and ready, and surprise weapon both grant a trait bonus to attacks- that means they do not stack.
That's a bummer, but I'd just drop rough and ready. As the lesser of the two it's only a +1, and I already get the penalty for improv weapons dropped thanks to 'catch off guard'
Barbarians are easier, and faster.
No need to dance around just to try and get that damage across.
On the subject of traits, does anyone know if there are any that give a bonus to disarming or feinting? I know there's a few that give a bonus to bluff.
Dirty Fighter is a half-orc/orc racial trait that gives a +3 to feint attempts.
Rabble Rebel is a halfling-only regional trait that gives +2 to feint and slight of hand (in combat), but it requires that three of your allies are threatening the target. If there's four PCs surrounding one enemy, I don't think you should have any reason to feint in the first place so this one's pretty useless.
Since disarm is used with your weapon, any trait that gives a bonus to attack rolls (suprise weapons, you say?) gives a bonus to disarm, if I understand the rules correctly (which there is a very good chance I don't).
ArmouredMonk13- i don't think that's how disarm works, but a weapon with the 'disarm' quality gives a +2 bonus- that's where my thinking is going right now.
I think I can make a solid case to my GM that a meat-hook or crowbar are structurally and functionally similar to a jutte or shang gou, (i can snag a proficiency with these thanks to swashbuckler) and so i should be able to use them as improvised weapons with the disarm quality. I'd naturally prefer the meathook, as it is more 'chef-y'
Well, the other option is Monk of the Empty Hand.
I am really not sure what you are looking to get from Rogue, that every other class can't do better.
Heck, Vivisectionist Alchemist would not only have the sneak attack you want, but is more fitting thematically.
blackbloodtroll- here is my reasoning for rogue: since 'catch off guard' is a prerequisite for what i wanted to do, and it causes flat-footedness, i figured I would try to capitalize on that with sneak attack.
Vivsectionist alchemist... now THAT is an intriguing suggestion! I'll look right into that.
Okay, took a look at vivisectionist- it has potential, but swashbuckler rogue gives me a mess of early combat feats. I know fighter would too, but then i lose a lot of skills and sneak attack.
It's a sticky wicket. No matter what i do, i have to give up something.
I Second the alchemist Vivsectionist. I see you "cooking" your Extracts
and take Infusion Discovery.
Infusion: When the alchemist creates an extract, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The extract created now persists even after the alchemist sets it down. As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots. An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
The vivisection aspect could come from training as a butcher and animal experimentation to make the best tasting joint of meat.
You'd get reasonable skill points and are just plain better overall than a rogue of any colour
Wouldn't Rough and Ready be better than Surprise Weapon? It both ignores the -4 penalty and gives you a +1, whereas Surprise Weapon just gives you a +2, landing you at -2...
Okay, you guys talked me out of rogue (though i may level dip later, lol)
I'm going with free hand fighter. I play next weekend.
Wish me luck, and thanks for all your good advice!
Thymus Vulgaris wrote: Wouldn't Rough and Ready be better than Surprise Weapon? It both ignores the -4 penalty and gives you a +1, whereas Surprise Weapon just gives you a +2, landing you at -2... "Catch off Guard", which they're taking, eliminates the penalty anyway so better off taking surprise weapon for a +2.
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