The Legend of Korra Season 2

[Kryzbyn]

Desna thought he knocked over her cabbages...

[LazarX]

Dragon78 wrote:

Korra was ostracized by her peers when she came to the city. Aang lost his people but they never showed his parents or him even mentioning them.

What peers? Korra was an ignorant country bumpkin with superpowers who created widespread destruction while clumsily trying to play superhero. She deserved to be arrested, although it was clear that Chief Befong was letting her personal issues influence her judgement as well.

But far from being ostracised she was welcomed by the people of Republic City when she revealed herself at the press conference. And she was pretty popular with sports as well.

[Kryzbyn]

magnuskn wrote:

Kryzbyn wrote:

Ok I'm caught up now.

I know this is a kids show, but do the bad guys have to be so obvious?

Ask yourself: Isn't Unalaq not a bit too obvious for the quality of writing otherwise exhibited in the franchise?

Yeah you're right. I never saw Ozai being the bad guy! Oh, wait, yeah that was obvious and intended. Azula was a suprise! No, not really. Zuko...not so much, there was obvious work there with Iroh making him into a decent kid. No real suprising plot twists during that series...

Korra first season...obvious bad guys were obvious. Them being brothers wasn't a suprise, but it was a good twist.

I'm not knocking the writing, but I don't know what you meant by this.

[jemstone]

Just to show that even I get their names mixed up, I've been writing "Desna" in my spoilers when I mean "Eska."

Whoops.

[magnuskn]

jemstone wrote:

GATHER ROUND PING-PING!

For some reason that is what cracks me up every time I re-watch this scene. And "The only way to deal with crazy women is to lie big and run fast!". :p

jemstone wrote:

Just to show that even I get their names mixed up, I've been writing "Desna" in my spoilers when I mean "Eska."

Whoops.

Well, there's Golarion Desna, so the mistake is easy to make. :)

[donato]

While I still enjoy the show very much, I do miss the pacing of TLA. For example, the bit with the prisoners on the boat at the end. The trio lands on the ship, fight a guy or two and then all of a sudden, the prisoners are liberated. The jail break could have had some cool fights, but instead are skipped ahead. I understand this is to be able to fit the entire story in one season, but I'd really like them to take their time. It's obvious they can do it and I wish they would.

[magnuskn]

Well, the question rather should be "Do those guards have any chance against Korra (and friends)?". Because if the answer is "no", a long fight scene is just wasting everybodys time, when there is important story to be told.

[Freehold DM]

magnuskn wrote:

Well, the question rather should be "Do those guards have any chance against Korra (and friends)?". Because if the answer is "no", a long fight scene is just wasting everybodys time, when there is important story to be told.

except they still showed the combat last series around and still told a good story.

[Kalshane]

Freehold DM wrote:

except they still showed the combat last series around and still told a good story.

Well, I imagine it's really tough for them to match/beat The Boiling Rock episodes from A:TLA for a prison escape/rescue storyline.

[Freehold DM]

Kalshane wrote:

Freehold DM wrote:

except they still showed the combat last series around and still told a good story.

Well, I imagine it's really tough for them to match/beat The Boiling Rock episodes from A:TLA for a prison escape/rescue storyline.

doesn't mean they shouldn't try

[Grey Lensman]

They had 3 seasons last time. This time they have 4 half-season arcs, if they get renewed after each one.

[magnuskn]

Pretty much that. They have half the time each season than the first series. That makes cutting out non-essential stuff a necessity to get their story told. A lot of people complained about the second half of this episode going at breakneck speed, but the end result is still that the story got told in a coherent manner and Korra and friends are now already off to Republic City.

[Nychus]

magnuskn wrote:

Paizo isn't planning an "Avatar" base class, I fear? It wouldn't be that unbalanced, compared to some of the other stuff other classes can do. About every episode of this series makes me want to play something like this more. Oh, well, pipedream.

You could push an elemental fist monk down this sort of route though its not quite there(Master of Many Styles or Monk of the Four Winds with multiple elemental styles.) or build an arcane spellcaster around the concept.

[Spook205]

Pacing is key.

Endless fight scenes are kibble if they don't mean anything, all they do is feed the dog and use up time.

Take a look at Star Wars, the lightsaber fights in the original trilogy are taut, tight and serve a purpose. Everyone of them is a major important event, are well shot, and don't drag.

There are so many lightsaber battles in the prequel trilogy that they blend, they lack tension, they feel like boss fights on video game levels. The first Hobbit movie fell prey to this too with the excessively long 'escape from goblintown' scene.

[magnuskn]

I found only some of the lightsaber battles in episode two superflous.

@Nychus: I'll look into that, thanks.

[LazarX]

magnuskn wrote:

I found only some of the lightsaber battles in episode two superflous.

@Nychus: I'll look into that, thanks.

The lightsaber combat in Episode 1 had zero impact as to how the ultimate battle came out. It was all a lucky shot from some kid in a borrowed fighter.

[magnuskn]

LazarX wrote:

magnuskn wrote:

I found only some of the lightsaber battles in episode two superflous.

@Nychus: I'll look into that, thanks.

The lightsaber combat in Episode 1 had zero impact as to how the ultimate battle came out. It was all a lucky shot from some kid in a borrowed fighter.

Um, yeah it had some impact. Without Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan there, Maul would have wiped out Amidala and her escort and that would have been that for Naboo, only a little bit later, when Trade Federation reinforcements would have arrived. Or the resistance would have completely collapsed without Amidalas leadership.

[Dragon78]

Great episode for Korra, now that we know there more going on. The Agni Kai are involved with a bombing to get the northern and southern even angrier and with Korra being captured on her way to see the firelord.

[Kalshane]

Nychus wrote:

You could push an elemental fist monk down this sort of route though its not quite there(Master of Many Styles or Monk of the Four Winds with multiple elemental styles.) or build an arcane spellcaster around the concept.

3.5 had the Swift Hunter druid variant in Unearthed Arcana, where you give up Wild Shape and armor/shields for Monk AC bonus, fast movement and tracking. I think that (if you can get your GM to okay it) paired with a few levels of monk (and Boon Companion) would get you some hand-to-hand skill combined with elemental attacks (in the form of spells) as well as a faithful Animal Guide.

I've got a friend thinking about running a 3.5 game and I'm seriously considering giving it a try.

[Kryzbyn]

Dragon78 wrote:

Great episode for Korra, now that we know there more going on. The Agni Kai are involved with a bombing to get the northern and southern even angrier and with Korra being captured on her way to see the firelord.

>.<

Spoilers, please.

[jemstone]

Calling it right now:

Spoiler:

Varrick is in on it with Unalaq. Zhu-Li, however, most likely is not.

[Spook205]

magnuskn wrote:

LazarX wrote:

magnuskn wrote:

I found only some of the lightsaber battles in episode two superflous.

@Nychus: I'll look into that, thanks.

The lightsaber combat in Episode 1 had zero impact as to how the ultimate battle came out. It was all a lucky shot from some kid in a borrowed fighter.

Um, yeah it had some impact. Without Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan there, Maul would have wiped out Amidala and her escort and that would have been that for Naboo, only a little bit later, when Trade Federation reinforcements would have arrived. Or the resistance would have completely collapsed without Amidalas leadership.

It has zero emotional impact. Its essentially five to ten minutes of excuse for killing off Qui-Gon Ginn by having a space flea from nowhere with facial tattoos show up.

Maul was a meaningless character (and I don't care about the EU stuff). He existed just to impale him and to sell toys. And he feels that way. The Dooku vs Yoda fight also felt tacked on (the Kenobi/Anakin vs Dooku fight not so. That one actually seemed to have a purpose besides watching a CGI frog kick Dracula's ass).

Korra's fight scenes (as of season 2 episode 4, I haven't seen 5 yet), are built more around riding tension, fulfilling purposes, or demonstrating important plot elements (Amon's unstoppability, Tarrlok's sneakiness, bloodbending, how precisely the chi blockers work, how dangerous the platinum robots are, etc etc).

You want the fight to be tense, and meaningful. You want to care about who's involved, what happens to them, and you don't want them fighting in a giant green box (like that totally meaningless reactor greenscreen from Episode 1 of Star Wars).

A good fight scene is based around geography, tension and character. Think on the successful, not just impressive fight scenes.

As an example from Korra (so we stay on topic)...

Mako beats the crap out of thieves in his re-introductory sequence. It establishes 1.) What he's been doing and 2.) How he's matured, or how he's trying to keep up. Beating the thieves up so quickly serves the purpose of this. The only reason they even exist is to show how badass he is and how he's upholding the laws. We don't need a drawn out fight scene here.

In Korra's spoiler fight in the prison. It takes about thirty seconds, but it matters, and it demonstrates both characters.

Conversely, how many times did we see Aang do the following..
Firebender makes threatening move. He is hit with air gust. Falls into water.

Thats almost all of the day to day fights from Book 1 from TLA.

[Grey Lensman]

Spook205 wrote:

The Dooku vs Yoda fight also felt tacked on

I'm going to disagree with this part. The Empire Strikes Back states that Yoda was 'a great warrior', but the line only exists to lead into his retort that 'war does not make someone great.' It is only in the prequel where we see Yoda in a fight of any kind, and if he isn't holding his own against a powerful threat (like, say, one that took out the two main characters) then he doesn't live up to his 'future' billing. And if not during the big war, then when?

I agree with just about everything else.

[magnuskn]

Spook205 wrote:

It has zero emotional impact. Its essentially five to ten minutes of excuse for killing off Qui-Gon Ginn by having a space flea from nowhere with facial tattoos show up.

Maul was a meaningless character (and I don't care about the EU stuff). He existed just to impale him and to sell toys. And he feels that way. The Dooku vs Yoda fight also felt tacked on (the Kenobi/Anakin vs Dooku fight not so. That one actually seemed to have a purpose besides watching a CGI frog kick Dracula's ass).

I wasn't talking about emotional impact, but about story impact.

However, I think I can safely disagree with Maul having been such a useless character, given how he inspired double-bladed lightsabers (which hadn't been a thing until he showed up), gave us the double-bladed sword (I know... yaaaaay), his black-on-red-skin tatoos were later used as the model for the One Sith from Star Wars: Legacy and a lot of fans really like the character. Hell, I myself had a poster up over my desk of him and Qui-Gon fighting on Tatooine and his giant face floating over that. I was really impressed and delighted with the lightsaber fights in episode one. And that fast-paced style has been adopted for about every lightsaber combat since (outside of Dooku's geriatric fencing).

[donato]

This week's two-parter was absolutely fantastic.

[Orthos]

Agreed. I loved how Okami the entire Wan story looked.

Spoiler:

So now we have a big hint as to what Unalaq's after. The question is, is he going after Vaatu to free it - and because he wants to for some reason or because it's controlling him somehow? - or to try to destroy it?

[Kryzbyn]

Yeah, I enjoyed it alot.
Always wondered about the first avatar ever, and why it became necessary to have one.

Kinda contradicts the "we learned bending from the animals" precedent, though...

[Orthos]

Yes and no.

Spoiler:

They still got their bending originally from the Lion Turtles. And I imagine the localized animal patterns - like the Earth Benders learning from the Moles - still holds in a sense of "we have these powers but almost no idea how to use them... let's watch some of the native wildlife and see what they do and copy it".

So not exactly how, come Aang's time, people remember it - the bits about the Lion Turtle cities seem to be long forgotten from historical memory, so people have forgotten the bending originally came from them, but they know of the first benders studying local wildlife, so they attributed the obtaining of bending ability to that instead.

Mistaken, yes, but logically sound from a future perspective. It's not like things like that haven't happened in our own history.

[Scintillae]

Spoiler:

Some may have. Or it may have been as simple as "The lion turtles gave us bending; the moon/sky bisons/badgermoles/dragons showed us how to wield it properly." And we did see Wan practice bending with a dragon.

E: Ninja'd.

[Orthos]

Orthos wrote:

Agreed. I loved how Okami the entire Wan story looked.

** spoiler omitted **

Propositional alternative suggested in comments on the Avatar Wiki:

Spoiler:

Unalaq wants to bond with Vaatu the same way the Avatar is bonded with Raava and become some kind of Anti-Avatar.

[Scintillae]

I can see that.

[Kryzbyn]

Yeah, makes sense. Don't think it'd go for that, though.

[Freehold DM]

Orthos wrote:

Agreed. I loved how Okami the entire Wan story looked.

HELLS YEAH!

[Kalshane]

I loved this week's two-parter. As others have mentioned, the art style in Wan's time that was evocative of traditional East Asian paintings was fantastic.

As far as the origins of bending,

Spoiler:

remember that while Wan received Fire from the lion turtle, he trained with the dragon to truly master it. The next scene shown after his training has the military guy from his old city marveling over Wan's command of Fire. So no contradiction here. The lion turtles gave them the power, but the animals showed them how to master it.

[Inkwell]

Spoiler:

I'm almost wondering if Unalaq's jealousy extends to wanting to be the avatar himself. Of course, there's no mention of him ever meeting a lion-turtle to give him the other bending abilities; just have to wait and see then if its building up to him taking on the now trapped Vaatu.

[Tangible Delusions]

Spoiler:

It was a nice touch for him to learn the different types of bending in the same order as the cycle goes.

[Dragon78]

I got to see the second part but not the first part of the last episode(s).

[Orthos]

Inkwell wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

If he indeed is going to try to ally/bond with Vaatu, I imagine he's planning on using the power Vaatu grants him to go steal the other bendings from someone/something. Or something along that line.

Or maybe he only knows part of the legend and thinks Vaatu will be able to grant him the powers automatically.

I figure he does consider going to the Lion Turtles to be out of the question, as he knows/assumes they wouldn't cooperate with him even if he were to be able to locate them.

Of course, if this is his plan all along, I figure that once they do bond - if they do - Unalaq as a character will probably cease to exist as Vaatu simply seizes control of his body, or at best turns him into a personal puppet.

[Madclaw]

Orthos wrote:

Inkwell wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

If this hasn't happened already.

Also, I find the the show reasserting the theme that, 'it's because of fire benders that we can't have nice things.'

So what was with Nick showing two episodes this week? I don't have cable and watch the episodes on the web. I know I didn't miss a week so I was confused. Anybody know why?

Furthermore, I'm glad they were able to get the previous avatar voice actors back. I really miss Roku's voice.

Theory on Varric:

I don't think Varric is working with Unalaq. I merely think he's an opportunistic, conniving, slimy, businessman. He's a little eccentric, but it could very well be a facade to throw people off.

[magnuskn]

They wanted to show the two-partner together.

They suck at scheduling, though. This week there will be no Korra, next weeks episode will be at 08:30 EST, a new time-slot. Which is the fourth timeslot change this season. At this point it begins to seem more and more that their programming director is trying to sabotage the show.

[Kalshane]

I'm with Madclaw. I'm thinking Varric

Spoiler:

is just trying to perpetrate the war to make a profit from it, and is buying out Future Industries to increase that profit by taking over a war machine manufacturer. (After sabotaging them to make that purchase easy to accomplish.)

[LazarX]

Kryzbyn wrote:

Yeah, I enjoyed it alot.

Always wondered about the first avatar ever, and why it became necessary to have one.

Kinda contradicts the "we learned bending from the animals" precedent, though...

Spoiler:

That's the thing about legends... they're not always true or complete. We don't know all the facts here, especially how bending got to be something that occurs by random birth, intead of being a set of powers on loan that were wielded by everyone who left the Lion Turtle Cities. There's a heck of a long line between Avatar Wan and Avatar Kora. That's room for a crapton of untold history.

For all we know, the refugees from the Lion Turtle Cities may not have been able to pass on their borrowed bending to their later generations which would have had to relearn it from new sources.

One implication of this knowledge is that an Avatar who masters energy bending can give bending to anyone in the same way it was once given before.

[MrSin]

Personal Opinion Ahead!:

I actually didn't enjoy the hour long special myself. Missed a lot of the growing relationships because it was rushed and I didn't feel like it actually explained all that much.

[Saint Caleth]

I liked the last episode, lots of great lore added to the world really without any retcons. That was impressive.

A few cool things I noticed:

A new age is going to be beginning when the next convergence happens. The last time there was a convergence, humans emerged from the lion-turtles they were trapped on and got bending and the avatar. What is going to happen this time? Will it be the age of no more bending and only technology? Will it be the age of everyone getting to bond with a spirit and bend all four elements?

I also liked the implication that the civilization that Wan grew up in was post-apocalyptic, with the humans trapped on the lion-turtles and the rest of the world overrun with spirits which invaded from the other plane. I would like to learn about the age before last, before the spirits overran the world.

10,000 years before looked surprisingly similar to the world up until the 100 years war. I like the implication that history basically froze in place with little to no progress for the age when the spirit of order walked the world and the spirit of chaos was imprisoned. It might not have been intentional but it is a cool implication that the existence of the avatar is a state of imbalance.

That ending was pretty bleak for what is basically a kid's show, with Wan dying on the battlefield thinking that he had failed in his mission. Really dark.

If Unalaq bonding with Vaatu to become a dark avatar is a possibility, then I hope that anyone can bond with any spirit and learn all four elements. And it would be possible too, since we know that the avatar can learn to energybend. See the first point for speculation about the next age.

And @MrSin, I interpreted the hour long story as more of an allegorical or mythical retelling than literally what happened back then. It helped me overlook some of the perfunctory and clunky writing to see it as a myth.

[Orthos]

@Madclaw and Kalshane: Agree 100% on Varrick.

Saint Caleth wrote:

Spoiler:

10,000 years before looked surprisingly similar to the world up until the 100 years war. I like the implication that history basically froze in place with little to no progress for the age when the spirit of order walked the world and the spirit of chaos was imprisoned. It might not have been intentional but it is a cool implication that the existence of the avatar is a state of imbalance.

Spoiler:

I agree, but with the caveat that it also highlights how humanity needs conflict and opposition to progress and advance, they need struggles and difficulties to overcome. In the ages where they didn't, things stayed the same, without alteration for generations of stagnation. Only when the Fire Nation prompted the other countries into reacting, therefore reviving the conflict that was lost in the normal natural order, did the world resume growth and advancement and development on a large scale.

Whether or not this is a good thing for the rest of the world besides humans is of course a matter of some debate.

[Freehold DM]

Orthos- that's some mind blowing stuff, right there.

[ulgulanoth]

a thought on the possibilities

Spoiler:

but if there is a dark avatar created, it could work completely differently than the current avatar, say it doesn't bend the normal energies but has wierd shadow powers or turns spirits evil. another possibility is that the anti-avatar is inheritly more powerful than the avatar but can't go into the avatar state, leading to a dilema for the avatar, as the avatar will have to go into the avatar state to defeat the anti-avatar but if killed in that state its all over, while the anti-avatar will always get a "second go"

[Madclaw]

ulgulanoth wrote:

a thought on the possibilities** spoiler omitted **

avatar theorycrafting:

It's good that you bring that up. Now that we know why the avatar state happens and where the energy comes from it could be that while in the avatar state Raava is vulnerable and 'dies'. Thus ending the avatar cycle. But, with what we learned Raava would just be reborn in 10,000 years, but not bound to a human. So, theoretically we could get another avatar, but would need the help of the lion turtles and the convergence energy.

[Kalshane]

Madclaw wrote:

ulgulanoth wrote:

a thought on the possibilities** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Of course, 10,000 years is an incredibly long time from a human perspective. So as far as anyone living is concerned,

Spoiler:

the Avatar is effectively gone "forever", even if there's a chance that someone could pull another Wan 10,000 years in the future (and if Ravaa was willing bond with a mortal again.)

And of course, if Vatuu is released when this happens, that's pretty much the end of the world.

[jemstone]

Welp...

Spoiler:

I was right, the spirit portals were sealed by an Avatar - just not the one I thought it would be.

To me, this says that Unalaq is either intentionally lying outright about the spirit portal and its former state (IE: When he said that it used to be open and that the Southern Tribe celebrated at it with the spirits), or he's been lied to and manipulated by Vaatu.

I'm okay with either of these, but I'm leaning toward the latter. I mean, the hundred-years war was a long time for anyone who isn't the Avatar, and we know from real-world experience that even in a culture with extensive written records, knowledge gets lost and corrupted. We have a ton of evidence to show that there is no nigh-perfect recall of historical events in the Avatar world, unlike most typical fantasy game worlds. Certain individuals (The Lion Turtles, for example) might remember back ten thousand years, but most human individuals would be hard pressed to remember more than fifty or sixty.

It would be easy for Vaatu (or an agent) to say to Unalaq "Hey, man, you gotta get this portal opened up, 'cause dude, hey, when you do? Spiritual Balance will be restored!" and then play off any lack of knowledge about the portal or why it was closed as "lost in the war, man!" The back-and-forth that Unalaq has demonstrated as far as his moral fiber so far seems to indicate that he's not being ridden by Vaatu, but he's certainly being influenced. He may very well believe that he's doing the right thing, and that he's on the side of angels, while paving his own road to hell. After all, Amon had a valid point about the state of non-benders in society, even if he was absolutely evil. If the theme for the villains in Korra is "their ultimate goal is noble, but their methods are fouled," then that would make sense for Unalaq as well.

And as far as Fire-benders meaning we can't have good things... well...

Wan was a Fire Bender. He's the reason that Raava and Vaatu are separated and the world is in the state it is, for better or worse. He's also the reason we have an Avatar. So, as we saw in A:TLA, Firebenders have the dubious honor of being the ones to cause the problem (Hundred Years War), but also the ones who help put things right (Zuko's Heroic Journey, for instance). Fire burns and harms, but it also warms and provides light. Pretty natural thing, then, that Fire Benders would get that double-sided destiny.