Question on wizard casting.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


There was a bit of confusion on casting, spell slots, etc, and the overall question is, Can a level 7 Wizard, with an Int score of 26, cast a level seven wizard spell, such as Greater Teleport?


No, he gets the bonus spells from high int when he gets Level 7 spells through leveling to Level 13.


no, 7th level wizard has spells of levels 0 to 4 as noted in the spells per day table of the wizard class.

You do not gain bonus spell slots for a spell level before you can cast spells of that level.

For 7th level spells that would be level 13th wizard


Where's that listed?
Because one of the first things that it says in the wizard class section is
"To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level." Meaning He can cast it.

With the bonus spells per day, in addition to his base alotment of base spells per day, which are slots, He has one available 7th level slot.

So where does it say that even though the requirement is met, he cannot cast those spells?


Swiftius wrote:

Where's that listed?

In the core rulebook I believe. I don't have the book in front of me, but you could look up the abilities section in the beginning of the book and the wizard section.


Common sense section - A first level character can start with INT 20, but he can't cast 5th level spells :)

And here.

just under the table :)

And about the "he can cast it". A "-" in the table indicates that he cannot cast spells of that level. For classes that only gets bonus spell slots, the table reads "0".


"He has the ability score necessary to cast the spell" is not equivalent to "he has met all the requirements to cast the spell." You don't get access to the bonus spells of a given level until your character is a high enough level to have spell slots of the given level. Take a look at the ranger, for instance. At some character levels, a ranger gets 0 spells of a given spell level. Why say "0" rather than "-"? Because the "0" entails that the ranger gets a spell slot of that level if his ability score qualifies him for it, but no other spell slot. If a "-" is listed, it means no spell slots for spells of that level, even if you will eventually get a bonus spell of that level thanks to your ability bonus.


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Swiftius wrote:

Where's that listed?

Because one of the first things that it says in the wizard class section is
"To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level." Meaning He can cast it.

With the bonus spells per day, in addition to his base alotment of base spells per day, which are slots, He has one available 7th level slot.

So where does it say that even though the requirement is met, he cannot cast those spells?

Do you know the term "Necessary, but not sufficient"?


PFSRD wrote:

The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, and rangers; and Charisma for bards, paladins, and sorcerers. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. See the class descriptions in Classes for details.

I don't have a page number for you but its right after the "Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells" here


Technically, they could cast it from a scroll with a UMD check, but a wizards don't have access to casting 7th level spells unabated until they hit level 13.


Swiftius wrote:

Where's that listed?

Because one of the first things that it says in the wizard class section is
"To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level." Meaning He can cast it.

With the bonus spells per day, in addition to his base alotment of base spells per day, which are slots, He has one available 7th level slot.

So where does it say that even though the requirement is met, he cannot cast those spells?

Short answer: Right above the table that tells you how many bonus spells you get for a given stat.

Long answer: Look at the paragraph directly under the one you quoted:

"A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells)."

Then look at the table, a level 7 wizard has:
Level 0 spells: 4
Level 1 spells: 4
Level 2 spells: 3
Level 3 spells: 2
Level 4 spells: 1
Level 5 spells: -
Level 6 spells: -
Level 7 spells: -
Level 8 spells: -
Level 9 spells: -

Note that he has a dash, not a 0 for spells/day at all levels higher than 4. This is important.

Now, look at the wording for the bonus spells in the getting started section:

Abilities and Spellcasters wrote:


The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, and rangers; and Charisma for bards, paladins, and sorcerers. n addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. See the class descriptions in Classes for details.

There's your answer. Now, the importance of those dashes. Look at the Ranger's spells/day at Ranger level 7:

Level 1 spells: 1
Level 2 spells: 0
Level 3 spells: -
Level 4 spells: -

A dash is different, it's obvious here that the dash means the caster cannot cast spells of that level. The 0 indicates that the caster CAN cast spells of the level but he doesn't receive any baseline. He only gets spells if his casting stat is high enough to give bonus spells of that level.

The Spell section of the Ranger explanation makes this clear:

"Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Ranger. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). When Table: Ranger indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level."

Grand Lodge

aceDiamond wrote:
Technically, they could cast it from a scroll with a UMD check, but a wizards don't have access to casting 7th level spells unabated until they hit level 13.

It's actually only a caster level check with a difficulty of the scroll's caster level +1, so a good deal easier than the UMD roll.


harte035 wrote:
It's actually only a caster level check with a difficulty of the scroll's caster level +1, so a good deal easier than the UMD roll.

Even so, it's based on the save of the minimum ability score to cast the spell, so the save DC is 20, instead of 25. Plus, you'd really have to hate someone to be willing to burn 10% of your wealth to cast a single spell. The scroll would cost 2275 gp, and an average 7th level character has a wealth of 23,500 gp.

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