Deft shootist was the feat I got to take for free with the Grit rogue talent, since it was the only one that didn't require the use of a grit point to get full usage; besides, sometimes it makes sense to fire in melee, and I like to keep my options open.
Light steps isn't a bad choice, but it's not like difficult terrain comes up too often... Nimble moves might not be a bad idea, though. It'd be nice to be able to take a 5 foot step at all times.
Hmm... I could take Nimble Moves -> Acrobatic Steps, or PBS -> Shot on the Run -> Parting Shot... one makes me more agile, while the other does more damage.
I like the idea of the Scout archetype... certainly fits her character better. Rake is nice too, but she is the party trap finder, so I can't justify losing trapfinding.
I'm pretty sure the reason I took Combat Expertise had something to do with the Improved Feint ability, but on second thought, I'll have to get rid of that too because it really doesn't fit my character, even though it has saved my butt the couple of times I used it.
Light Step has some pretty steep requirements too...
My rogue only has a Wisdom modifier of +1, so grit right now is maxed at one. The fact that deft shootist lets me fire in melee without provoking AOO is all that I need from grit so far, so I don't mind, but I'll need Extra Grit if I want to take things further.
Here's what I've got so far...
Retrain for the Scout archetype
Retrain bard levels for full rogue
With new rogue levels, gain the talent Bleeding Attack
Retrain Combat Expertise for Extra Rogue Talent or Extra Grit
I'm open to other options for retraining Combat Expertise...
I've got an elf rogue with an emphasis on mobility who has gone in way too many directions, and I'm looking at using retraining from Ultimate Campagin to get her back under control.
Before we get into the "best defense is a good offense" debate, let's make something clear: the character is in a steampunk horror campaign where some things can't be defeated with enough hit point damage. Survivability is key, and keeping a high degree of mobility is crucial.
Let's start with her feats (she's a 7th level rogue/2nd level bard):
Feats:
Weapon Finesse
Combat Expertise
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Second, let's look at her rogue talents:
Rogue Talents:
Firearm Training
Grit (quick clear/Deft Shootist)
Fast Stealth
Here's what I have in mind:
Get rid of the bard levels and go straight up rogue.
Add a SA-based talent like Bleeding Attack
However, I'm drawing a blank on what else I could do. Rogue Eidolon focused on 4 builds that don't suit this character's modus operandi, so I'm willing to solicit some input on this.
It's actually pretty game breaking to do so. Again, a 15d6 attack from a wizard is a limited resource, while a rogue with a keen rapier is critting quite a bit. In fact, the rules are pretty clear on precision based damage and critical hits:
srd wrote:
Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue's sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
If you'll notice other places where precision based damage is concerned, such as Vital Strike, you're always rolling the base weapon damage multiple times, but not from other sources.
Let's turn it around on the PCs. Assume a 10th level fighter with 127 hit points (10 for first level + 75% of d10 for 2nd through 9th level + 30 CON + 10 favored class + 10 Toughness) lost initiative and failed his perception check, meaning that a 10th level rogue with a composite longbow and deadly aim leveled two flatfooted attacks against him. If both attacks succeed, that rogue just dealt 10d6 sneak attack damage against him in addition to weapon damage of around 21. He can survive 51 points, even though he'll feel the hurt. However, if that same rogue dealt a critical with the longbow, that means the fighter would take take 20d6 points of SA damage from two attacks. Assuming all other beneficial bonuses (deadly aim, strength rating+2, 1d8 base weapon damage), total damage is 4d8+8+16 plus 20d6. Average damage done? 42 base weapon damage plus 70 sneak attack damage, or 112 damage. Max damage is 176, meaning the rogue does have a decent chance of killing the fighter outright before he even acts.
Found the FAQ link here. Seems pretty clear to me. Unless the caster wasn't evil, charm person shouldn't have worked:
FAQ wrote:
Protection From Evil: Does this work against all charm and compulsion effects? Or just against charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as charm person, command, and dominate person (and thus not effects like sleep or confusion, as the caster does not have ongoing influence or puppet-like control of the target)?
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")
but yeah, Deadmoon and fretgod99 covered the gist of it, though "subject to GM discretion" is always a potential workaround.
~P
In all fairness, the character would be perfectly justified in derailing the campaign entirely by attempting to find out how a succubus and their minor demons were able to overcome a protection from evil spell. This would seem to indicate that the demons were not evil, lost the evil descriptor, and other mechanics. It would be even more awkward if there was a Paladin who used a smite evil and it worked.
Turns out it was a moot point... the CON damage came from an ability called drowning touch, which the character was immune to because they had drunk a potion of water breating. Still, this is good to know for the future.
Of course Craft (Alchemy) is useful. It allows you to make Alchemist's Fire and useful stuff like that. Although it takes a ridiculous amount of time compared to true magic items.
Our GM allowed the product Making Craft Work to combat that problem.
After all, why should it take 10 times as long to make an object out of solid gold as it would to make the exact same object out of solid silver?
All classes benefit the most from Percception. However, if you're looking to min/max, I would suggest a Wisdom based class that doesn't suffer from MAD. A druid with a focus on spells is the first that comes to mind.
Horses in our games never last long enough to form emotional attachments.
According to a friend, a guy he used to play with named all his horses "Glue" followed by a numeral. I can see why he did that.
I played an evil Teleporter with Augment Summoning in the last campaign. Anytime someone with above-animal intelligence (elves included) attacked my horse, they would pay back any damage or death in flesh. I'd make sure to take them alive, then summon a devil with the command "make him suffer." At level 10, it would be the longest 15 rounds of their lives.
Then if necessary, I'd just grab a couple of onyxes out of my pouch, animate the horse, and go on my way.
What did once hit me surprisingly hard, was when my character had to kill his horse.
Not surprised. Most of the time, horses, pack mules, teamsters, etc. are just in the background. When a GM turns it on the characters and sics a manticore or other beast on one of these guys that have no chance of surviving, and the frenzy of combat becomes that much more intense.
In the event of a TPK, our group has resolved to do a "Sons of" campaign. However, considering that at least two of our party members are chaste, it would have to be more of a 'spiritual successor to' campaign instead.
Building on sk8r's advice, keep in mind that wealth is balanced such that the players have the right amount of gear for their level. Too much, the combats get easier and easier (like the time one of my group's Paladins nearly one-shotted an Adult Green Dragon).
Either 1) Start with the Beginner Box with a GM to get the mechanics down, or 2) join a group and just sit-in and observe for the first couple of sessions. If it doesn't break flow, ask other PCs questions about their decisions, but try not to interrupt the GM while he's managing combat. He's got enough to do.
Before the current campaign, we played in Forgotten Realms.
Two characters died, each dying twice before giving them up as dead-dead. One of them had leadership, and the Cohort had a death count of four.
Another player (call him Baldy) lost three characters, with death counts of 1, 2 and 1 respectively.
The other player in our group (call her Woman), the Barbarian, died once as a Faithless, but came back. Later, she failed a will save and killed everyone else.
This campaign? Baldy has lost 2 characters, while Woman still has a zero count. I lost one character, but she was reincarnated and basically dove into a sink hole of ultimate evil to get her soul back. Alton would have been #2, but it's possible he survived because of a misinterpretation of RAW (would have been nice to know last night before the proverbial and theoretical five stages of grief...)
I'd say the worst death is when our barbarian got possessed and great cleaved the rest of the party... even with obscurring mist up, she had improved blind fight too.
Found another discussion here that seems to cover the question... it's based on your Constitution score, which is only impacted by drain/permanent ability bonuses.
So it seems a character with a normal CON of 12 that takes 8 CON damage would still need to hit -12 hit points to die.
It's actually only a caster level check with a difficulty of the scroll's caster level +1, so a good deal easier than the UMD roll.
Even so, it's based on the save of the minimum ability score to cast the spell, so the save DC is 20, instead of 25. Plus, you'd really have to hate someone to be willing to burn 10% of your wealth to cast a single spell. The scroll would cost 2275 gp, and an average 7th level character has a wealth of 23,500 gp.
I've been playing Alton for about 2 years, and got him to level 10. He's had some close calls in the past, like getting cursed by a Vargouille, getting hit by a CON damaging poison that he could not save against (the rolls just kept going south), and a coup de grace in his sleep that was later fiat-ed by the GM.
In fact, I just killed the GM's character in my game this weekend via a gibbering mouther's engulf ability, which is a horrible disgusting way to go, so I expect some level of retribution. :D
Does it depend on the play style? I can see how a kick-in-the-door campaign would have significantly different effects on the player. If a barbarian with very little character development dies, you just roll up a new one. Plenty of barbarians out in the world.
I'm not here to whine and complain, and I don't need support. I'm a grown man, and I take my character deaths with dignity.
My 10th level bard died last night in a Ravenloft-like setting. He was Neutral Good and an Innocent, and wouldn't want to be raised from the dead because of the corruption associated with it. Because he died in some evil sinkhole, it's likely he'd be raised without a soul.
It seems odd, but I found myself going through the 5 stages of grief after the session ended. Probably because I invested so much time and energy into character development (the most I ever did), and because he got dealt a really bad hand over time that he never got to resolve.
Has anyone else ever gone through grief after a permadeath?
Yeah, if I were the GM looking to challenge you, I'd either: a) focus on the rest of the party; b) throw a bunch of touch attacks at you, like enervation; c) have incorporeal creatures ambush you in your sleep; d) grapple you (depending on your CMD); e) use some horror elements and throw unkillable mobs in very close quarters; or f) use an anti-magic field in combination with the above. Depending on your level, time stop and wish would probably be fair game too...
Remember that incorporeal undead would take half damage from your attacks, are immune to crits, and precision based damage.
From your perspective, if I was you, I'd probably burn a +1 bonus on ghost touch for your armor just to pump your touch AC higher.
211. Velial's Definitive Guide to Diurnal Avians
This leather-bound tome contains an anatomically correct sketch of an eagle on the inside of the front cover. On the opposite side of the page is an autograph of what appears to be the author, along with a rune in place of a signature. The handwriting is common, and states: "To my friend R. Pembroke: I feel more like I do now than when I first arrived."
Perusing the pages reveals that this was not handwritten. Instead, it appears as though the words were pressed into the page by metal plate lettering. However, the document appears to use a more scholarly dialect of Common. Any character who succeeds at a DC 15 Knowledge (nature) check notices that the tome is almost comprised almost entirely of footnotes, cross-references, indices, and the occasional self-promotion, and very little useful information about birds. If a player has this book in their possession while taking 20 on a Knowledge check in a library to research common diurnal species of birds, they receive a +2 circumstance bonus. This bonus does not apply, however, to nocturnal birds, uncommon species (such as magical creatures).
How does one punish the wicked, if every spell available to do so, is somehow evil?
The forces of good need not take the pacifist approach to all enemies.
Even in legend, gods of good have punished those committing grave, evil deeds.
Bestow Curse is well suited, as a nonlethal punishment.
You're probably right, bbt. Again, this is probably just the connotation of the word curse, which doesn't truly do the intent of the spell/action justice.
I've been on trial a couple of times myself. One was when I was playing a medusa from Savage Species on the road to redemption. It was another CN PC who had me arrested and even tried to sabotage the trial in my disfavor by using his psionic abilities to charm and compel false witnesses.
It's strange when the medusa isn't the that guy of the group...
Our GM often forces us to fight in close quarters combat (which neither myself nor our Tetori are concerned about), so Point Blank Shot almost always applies.
Unless I'm fighting creatures immune to nonlethal damage, I'm consistently dealing ~37 points of damage a round, not accounting for crits. 6 of those points are thanks to Arcane Strike.
From my understanding, evil is more the flavor of what happens.
Mechanically, summoning a quasit is similar to summoning a lantern archon. One is good, the other is evil. This opens up the character to corruption.
Being blind forever vs. suffering a -4 penalty on all d20 checks both impose penalties, I admit, and both suck. But how did it happen? An archon with an aura of menacing that imposes a -4 penalty is a lot different than a spell that causes an opponent's eyes to burst acid in a 10 foot cone, rendering the subject blind. To turn it around, looking upon a nymph and being rendered blind (that image being permanently imprinted upon the subject's inner eye) is a lot different than a wracking curse that causes the subject to experience shooting pains that result in a -4 penalty on all checks...
I suppose the same would apply to curses. If one specifies how the curse is inflicted, one curse could certainly be more evil than another...
As a wizard, my answer would be, whatever suits the character. However, wizards are skill-starved, even with their high Intelligence, and your skill points may be better spent on things like Perception (everyone needs it), the Knowledge family (unless your party has a bard), and perhaps Escape Artist (unless you're a Teleporter).
If you really want to focus on your out-of-combat skills, may I suggest Profession (merchant) and perhaps some kind of smithing.
I hope this doesn't spawn pages and pages of debate on the nature of evil...
Is there any reason bestowing a curse is not considered evil? Numerous third party supplements talk about the nature of curses, channeled by spite with the intention of maiming or crippling the target.
What comes to mind is the Book of Vile Darkness and the Ravenloft Player's Guide. The former talks about other unique curses, greater curses, bloodline curses, etc.; the latter mentions death curses, and the act of cursing someone causes a powers check.
Is it fair to say that curses have a proclivity to be a tool of evil, but are not inherently evil themselves?
One thing I've noticed is that Death curses in both source materials generally only work when the character dies soon afterward. A character who dies with a death curse either cannot be raised/resurrected or the act of raising the character causes the curse to be lifted.
Also, this may be of less concern depending on your play style, but death curses are considered evil acts, namely because 1) they are powered by spite or malice, and 2) they are intended to maim or cause agony.
Don't know why a normal bestow curse doesn't have the evil descriptor...
Hmm... I already have Frightening Tune for the frightened condition. The staggered condition already exists as part of deadly performance (if the target succeeds).
You might be on to something there, though... something of a prismatic effect where the target gets hit by a random status ailment.
In effect, the performance is so powerful that the user experiences a wide range of emotions. The dominant emotion is determined randomly, and has an effect.
Awe (Stunned)
Anger (Staggered)
Joy (Exhausted)
Despair (Panicked)
Myriad (Confusion)
Sensory Overload (Blindness or Deafness)
Failed save duration TBD (1d4-1d6 rounds). Successful save reduces the duration to 1 round.
You can look at the Ravenloft Player's Handbook or the Book of Vile Darkness to see other mechanics of curses. Those could be adapted to Pathfinder quite easily.
In fact, the Ravenloft-type curses have been quite effective in our horror campaign.
*EDIT* The curse should be fitting, and provide an escape clause to be exceptionally effective. A death curse like you'd find in Dresden Files ("Die Alone" or "Never drink emotion again") wouldn't be appropriate mechanically speaking in the Pathfinder RPG, hence why the Dresden Files RPG is based on the FATE system.
Alton Nimblewit is no Capoeirista, and curses require a powers check as well...
Alton is range-oriented (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus (shortbow), Arcane Strike). He was originally going to go Arcane Archer, but I decided that full bard would be better for him.
If we're looking for something flavorful, Alton is a faith healer/evangelist, so something in that vein would work exceptionally well.
Low Wisdom and Low Charisma are even harder to quantify.
I'd like to credit the Ravenloft Player's Handbook for this:
Low Intelligence: A player with a low intelligence may seem like a cheery and friendly fellow, but has no short term memory, and can't remember anything from one minute to the next.
Low Wisdom: This character will likely have good memory, but will be unable to perform any external task, such as putting clothes on or opening doors.
Low Charisma: Low Charisma causes the character to lose all sense of the outside world and wander in a daze. Often, the character will mumble to themselves and ignore the existence of others.
Also, according to the Acrobatics rules, the DC for a surface 1-3 feet wide is 5, while 3 feet or wider is 0. If a character is at risk and their total modifier to Acrobatics is less than -1, Claxon has the right idea here. You can easily take 10 out of combat, but in combat you would likely fumble around trying to stand.
Strength: Damage to your Strength score causes you to take penalties on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The penalty also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and your Combat Maneuver Defense. A character with a Strength score of 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious. Some creatures do not possess a Strength score and have no modifier at all to Strength-based skills or checks
Strength damage doesn't impact your carrying capacity. I think this is for ease of play purposes, because recalculating encumbrance potentially several times in combat to see if you're overloaded would grind combat to a halt.
Sorry, let me clarify this a bit... the Ravenloft thing isn't houserules... we're in Ravenloft, as we recently discovered. As in, there-is-no-half-orc-only-caliban Ravenloft.
Alton's an Innocent, and Deadly Performance is subject to a powers check. Poor guy was never designed for a horror campaign.
