Some more confessions:
1.- I make the players roll for HPs on level up, and they get what they roll. Same on character creation, except for the 1st HD.
2.- While I don't explicity forbid them, I make every attempt to steer players away from using too many summoning spells.
3.- After a short dip into a couple of APG classes, I decided to permanently disable all non-core ones (though I allow archetypes of those classes from all the core books).
4.- I really, really dislike characters that turn into animals. I'm fine if they turn into plants, though.
5.- Since I make a mental conversion from feet to metres at a 0.3 ratio, long-range effects in my games are slightly longer than in the book (more specifically, ranges are about 4.8% longer in my games).
6.- Similar case with weights (which I mentally transform from pounds to kilograms at a 0.5 rate); everything in my games is about 0.05% heavier.
7.- I don't allow laptops on the table, though I've become flexible to tablets since they don't break the view, so long as no Candy Crush is being played. I don't want them getting too many stages beyond me.
Coincidentally, since Golarion is the only real setting that PF's rulebooks apply to, this is the only setting my group plays in anymore. We used to play in every available setting we could get our hands on(FR, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Scarred Lands, Greyhawk, lots of planescaping to Sigil, Acheron, etc).
Now, every game takes place in the same "yard." Boring. Not Paizo's fault(eggs/basket and all, pertaining to running a setting), but the conversion rules are enough of a headache that no DM in my group wants to bother with any other setting anymore; they don't love Golarion that much, they just don't want the added work. The other DM's tend to just do AP's anymore anyway, which all take place in Golarion. Dem's da breaks.
*Really confused* Do groups really limit themselves to one setting just because that's their game's default setting?
What's this added work that your DMs don't want to do, conversions of long-standing NPCs?
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Stats: I'll choose...four 18s, one 17 and one 14 (as a dump stat).I prefer psionics to magic
I refuse to play in a game that makes you roll stats. might as well roll race and gender too then.
On behalf of everyone else in this thread who've restrained themselves from turning this thread into a cesspit of petty bickering, I'm suggesting that you retract your strawman.
(I'm actually doing you a favor because frankly, it's not even a halfway subtle strawman.)
Coincidentally, since Golarion is the only real setting that PF's rulebooks apply to, this is the only setting my group plays in anymore. We used to play in every available setting we could get our hands on(FR, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Scarred Lands, Greyhawk, lots of planescaping to Sigil, Acheron, etc).
Now, every game takes place in the same "yard." Boring. Not Paizo's fault(eggs/basket and all, pertaining to running a setting), but the conversion rules are enough of a headache that no DM in my group wants to bother with any other setting anymore; they don't love Golarion that much, they just don't want the added work. The other DM's tend to just do AP's anymore anyway, which all take place in Golarion. Dem's da breaks.
*Really confused* Do groups really limit themselves to one setting just because that's their game's default setting?
What's this added work that your DMs don't want to do, conversions of long-standing NPCs?
Probably has more to do with AP's all taking place in Golarion, so that's become the default setting for our group. Even homebrew games, not explicitly using AP's, are taking place in Golarion due to recent use and familiarity. I find it incredibly limiting.
I'm planning a new campaign to run, and I was just going to stick it into Golarion for ease of use, and as sort of an olive branch to get the players involved. I really want to set it in Greyhawk or Dragonlance instead, but I feel like it'll get met with resistance for breaking the norm.
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Pathfinder has too many fiddly bits in the various player companions that have been released to get bonuses.
Example:
(I was an andoran sheep herder who juggled at a young age so you character gets +1 to survival from herding and +1 Dex based skills because you practiced at a young age)
I like parts of the pathfnder settle, but overall I think its a terrible setting, feels way to patchwork(here be priates, here are vikings, here is the land of the lost, here be technology)
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Coincidentally, since Golarion is the only real setting that PF's rulebooks apply to, this is the only setting my group plays in anymore. We used to play in every available setting we could get our hands on(FR, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Scarred Lands, Greyhawk, lots of planescaping to Sigil, Acheron, etc).
Now, every game takes place in the same "yard." Boring. Not Paizo's fault(eggs/basket and all, pertaining to running a setting), but the conversion rules are enough of a headache that no DM in my group wants to bother with any other setting anymore; they don't love Golarion that much, they just don't want the added work. The other DM's tend to just do AP's anymore anyway, which all take place in Golarion. Dem's da breaks.
You realize there's a sizeable number of 3PP campaign setting that are written for the Pathfinder RPG, right?
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- 3.0 was batter than 3.5 and PF should have been 3.25 instead of 3.75
- Dhampir inquisitors of pharasma are the worst stereotype ever
- Carrion Crown is a terrible AP
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Stats: I'll choose...four 18s, one 17 and one 14 (as a dump stat).I prefer psionics to magic
I refuse to play in a game that makes you roll stats. might as well roll race and gender too then.On behalf of everyone else in this thread who've restrained themselves from turning this thread into a cesspit of petty bickering, I'm suggesting that you retract your strawman.
(I'm actually doing you a favor because frankly, it's not even a halfway subtle strawman.)
Since my attempt at satire didn't move you, I'll make my point more seriously.
The post to which I was replying was implying that although we make choices about our PC's race, gender etc., the random roll method is random and with point buy your stats are entirely within your control.
This is an illusion.
Random roll: Is it entirely random? Is nothing within your control? Well, you choose which method of rolling your group uses (out of many possibilities), nearly every method involves you deliberately assigning (read: choosing) your randomly rolled scores, and even in the methods where you have no choice, well, you chose to make characters that way.
Point-Buy: Is it entirely chosen? Well, I envisioned my character, I envisioned him as male, and human, and very strong indeed, and very dextrous, tough, smart, wise and charismatic. What do you mean I can't choose to play that character? You get assigned a total which may or may not be adequate to create the character you envision, the DM may restrict stats lower than 10, or whatever. You have an illusion of choice.
For years, we have just chosen our own stats freely. Has that led to six 18s? Or even four 18s, one 17 and one 14? No. We have to submit our PC for approval (just like every other game out there), and a ridiculous PC will be rejected.
In every method (even the third) there is a combination of things that are within your control and things that are not. Fair enough. But the idea that point-buy is entirely within your control and that random rolling is entirely outside your control is an illusion.
And talking about straw men:-
I refuse to play in a game that makes you roll stats. might as well roll race and gender too then.
No offense to Andrew R (who is entitled to his preferences), but rolling for stats in no way affects your decision to choose race and gender.
You realize there's a sizeable number of 3PP campaign setting that are written for the Pathfinder RPG, right?Coincidentally, since Golarion is the only real setting that PF's rulebooks apply to, this is the only setting my group plays in anymore. We used to play in every available setting we could get our hands on(FR, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Scarred Lands, Greyhawk, lots of planescaping to Sigil, Acheron, etc).
Now, every game takes place in the same "yard." Boring. Not Paizo's fault(eggs/basket and all, pertaining to running a setting), but the conversion rules are enough of a headache that no DM in my group wants to bother with any other setting anymore; they don't love Golarion that much, they just don't want the added work. The other DM's tend to just do AP's anymore anyway, which all take place in Golarion. Dem's da breaks.
I do, my group doesn't.
I get mad when people don't get that I am being sarcastic on the internet. I mean, really mad, furious, outrageously disturbed, I just want to, I just want to bang my fingers on the caps lock key and shout at all the people who miss my sarcasm , hey, what does it take, I mean come on, can't you see how smart that comment was and all that with the ellipses and well crafted grammatical pauses, how, I mean how can you not see how sarcastic and flippant that was, what is wrong with you people, no seriously, what is wrong with all of you?
I don't know about every one else, but I'm eating cookies.
Stats: I'll choose...four 18s, one 17 and one 14 (as a dump stat).I prefer psionics to magic
I refuse to play in a game that makes you roll stats. might as well roll race and gender too then.On behalf of everyone else in this thread who've restrained themselves from turning this thread into a cesspit of petty bickering, I'm suggesting that you retract your strawman.
(I'm actually doing you a favor because frankly, it's not even a halfway subtle strawman.)
Since my attempt at satire didn't move you, I'll make my point more seriously.
The post to which I was replying was implying that although we make choices about our PC's race, gender etc., the random roll method is random and with point buy your stats are entirely within your control.
This is an illusion.
Random roll: Is it entirely random? Is nothing within your control? Well, you choose which method of rolling your group uses (out of many possibilities), nearly every method involves you deliberately assigning (read: choosing) your randomly rolled scores, and even in the methods where you have no choice, well, you chose to make characters that way.
Point-Buy: Is it entirely chosen? Well, I envisioned my character, I envisioned him as male, and human, and very strong indeed, and very dextrous, tough, smart, wise and charismatic. What do you mean I can't choose to play that character? You get assigned a total which may or may not be adequate to create the character you envision, the DM may restrict stats lower than 10, or whatever. You have an illusion of choice.
For years, we have just chosen our own stats freely. Has that led to six 18s? Or even four 18s, one 17 and one 14? No. We have to submit our PC for approval (just like every other game out there), and a ridiculous PC will be rejected.
In every method (even the third) there is a combination of things that are within your control and things that are not....
Dice Pool. In order. Random enough for ya?
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3d6, in order.
The randomness of the dice pool was pretty crazy. Our DM was even generous enough to give us some extra dice in the pool to use. On Important stats for my character, I'd use 6 or so dice, and come up with 4 1's. ON a stat that was less important, such as CHA, I rolled all 6's.
We had one player who want to play a wizard, and wound up with a 10 for their INT. Had to practically petition the DM for a new character. There's random, but then there's just unplayable.
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I remember the literal days of 3d6, in order. Some of the characters we rolled up were laughable. Fighters with a str of 8, wizards who would only be able to learn and cast spells of up to second level....
But we played them. Most of them died, but we played them.
When the 4d6 drop 1 arrange scores as desired option became commonplace, our characters improved dramatically.
But I don't remember that the actual game became "more fun". It was always pretty fun anyway. It was nice having more powerful characters, but there were some funny moments dealing with the less powerful characters too.
While we tend to use point buy for all of our new games, I have to admit that point buy seems to me to create very similar character builds. I prefer rolling dice when I can.
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The post to which I was replying was implying that although we make choices about our PC's race, gender etc., the random roll method is random and with point buy your stats are entirely within your control.
This is an illusion.
I don't think it can be disputed that random roll adds an element of randomness that isn't in point buy, nor in choice of races or gender or classes.
There will always be limits, choice is not absolute. For example, a GM will likely limit player character Races to the core book races, players can't just choose to be a Dragon or Goblin normally. But within that range of options the player gets free choice.
Equally, with abilities the GM sets a limit (e.g. higher stats cost more points and you get 15 points to spend) but within those limits the players has free choice of how to spend those points. That choice is not an illusion.
Random rolling Ability scores is basically saying you can have between 3 and 18 in each ability score but you don't get to choose, you roll, you only get to choose which ability gets which score.
The equivalent for choosing Race is to say that from the 7 core races you randomly generate a subset of 3 and then get to choose from those.
So, yeah, while Random Rolling Abilities isn't completely random (though it can be) and Point Buy doesn't let you choose any score you want, the latter avoids any element of chance in the decision process.
EDIT: Randomly rolling characters can be fun, for example when you are lacking inspiration or just want to surprise yourself, however if I am going to do that I want character generation to be more random - more like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1e where you rolled for Race, Profession as well as stats.
I remember rolling randomly for my race/gender when rolling up a character for TMNT: And Other Strangeness. I came up with a Male Blue-Jay bird-person. Only played it that one time, so I don't know if it was required to roll randomly.
I think you should roll randomly for:
1. Number of heads.
2. Number and type of genders.
3. Race
4. Number and type of limbs
5. Abilities (just get rid of "class" altogether)
6. Feats
7. Skills
8. Alignment
Probably more. That's a game I could get into rite thar.
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Since my attempt at satire didn't move you, I'll make my point more seriously.Stats: I'll choose...four 18s, one 17 and one 14 (as a dump stat).I prefer psionics to magic
I refuse to play in a game that makes you roll stats. might as well roll race and gender too then.On behalf of everyone else in this thread who've restrained themselves from turning this thread into a cesspit of petty bickering, I'm suggesting that you retract your strawman.
(I'm actually doing you a favor because frankly, it's not even a halfway subtle strawman.)
This is not a debate thread.
If you have an axe to grind, I suggest you start a new thread to rehash the arguments we've all heard a hundred times.
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I subtly steer events to benefit my wife's character during a game session so that I gain great benefit after the session is over and the other players have left.
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Random rolls are important, otherwise you end up with people who dont want to touch the dice and attempt to narrarate to their fellow players and the dm how theie point buy character killed three people ina combat based on their stats alone. Yes, i had this happen while i was the dm.
Lincoln,
Heh, I used to play Gamma World when it first came out. I rolled up a friggin' gargoyle with wings who couldn't fly. Good times. (He could jump really well though...)
Re: Greed... Maybe I'm just an old grognard, but I still play characters who don't care about gold much. My druid pretty much ignored gold until she hit level 5 or 6 and became the leader of the party. Now she mostly only cares about loot to the point that the party shares it equitably. I mentioned in another thread how she had the party load up all the BBEG's loot from his lair into wagons and hauled it back to town for the Sheriff to return to its rightful owners. I sort of consider it the GM's job to make sure that characters with that sort of approach to loot still get a chance to attain the stuff they need. Or else to run the game such that they don't actually need it.
I only have one character who pinches every copper and that's because greed is a central aspect of his personality. Well, not "greed" so much as "ambition" and his ambitions cost money, so he grabs what he can.
I don't think I've ever played a "holy" character that did not donate at least 15% of earnings to their god.
Is being an accountant really that common? If so I guess my latest "confession" is that most of my characters don't really care much about magic items and gold.
5d6, arrange as desired.Dice Pool. In order. Random enough for ya?3d6, in order.Interesting choices.
i do 2d6 + 6 arrange as desired.
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3d6, in order.
I admit I have grown soft over the years, and now I let my players roll 4d6 drop lowest... eight times and then distribute as wanted.
I know, I know. I will go cry alone in the corner.
None of my characters give a fig about gold.
That's what platinum is for! It's even more shiny!
I find play-by-post to be the worst way to play the game, and would much rather not play. If I had the choice between a pbp that would let me play my desired character, and a vtt or real tabletop game that only let me choose between a human fighter, rogue, wizard, or cleric... I would choose the non-pbp game.
I think it would be interesting to try out a game that was a roll 3d6 in order, and roll your race and class (you choose the gender), and come up with a backstory for that character. And see how far the party got.
I love randomness in games, which is why I prefer rolling for stats than point buy.
Dice Pool. In order. Random enough for ya?3d6, in order.Interesting choices.
Except when the DM chooses, and the player has no say so. Choices, indeed.
I find play-by-post to be the worst way to play the game, and would much rather not play. If I had the choice between a pbp that would let me play my desired character, and a vtt or real tabletop game that only let me choose between a human fighter, rogue, wizard, or cleric... I would choose the non-pbp game.
I think it would be interesting to try out a game that was a roll 3d6 in order, and roll your race and class (you choose the gender), and come up with a backstory for that character. And see how far the party got.
I love randomness in games, which is why I prefer rolling for stats than point buy.
Warhammer Fantasy RP 2e has the option to design completely random characters, including the name. Sure, you'll end up with Gustav the Half-Witted Bone Picker With a Missing Eye and a Limp, but that's half the fun!
The other half is seeing how long you can make it into the session without dying, going insane, or both.
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Except when the DM chooses, and the player has no say so. Choices, indeed.Dice Pool. In order. Random enough for ya?3d6, in order.Interesting choices.
Your gaming group can agree amongst yourselves which stat generation system to choose.
Even if the DM says 'My way or the highway' you can still choose the highway.
Each of these systems involves some things that you control and some things that you don't, and that's okay. I'm just pointing out the folly of imagining that point-buy is entirely controlled by you and that random rolling is entirely random, and using that false logic as proof that one is better than the other.
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Except when the DM chooses, and the player has no say so. Choices, indeed.Dice Pool. In order. Random enough for ya?3d6, in order.Interesting choices.
Your gaming group can agree amongst yourselves which stat generation system to choose.
Even if the DM says 'My way or the highway' you can still choose the highway.
Each of these systems involves some things that you control and some things that you don't, and that's okay. I'm just pointing out the folly of imagining that point-buy is entirely controlled by you and that random rolling is entirely random, and using that false logic as proof that one is better than the other.
Holy cow, had no idea someone took this so seriously. It's just stat generation. I never said one was better than the otehr, I just stated what I liked to use, and how odd some stats were that came from the Dice Pool method. Take a chill pill, man.
*backs away slowly*
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Except when the DM chooses, and the player has no say so. Choices, indeed.Dice Pool. In order. Random enough for ya?3d6, in order.Interesting choices.
Your gaming group can agree amongst yourselves which stat generation system to choose.
Even if the DM says 'My way or the highway' you can still choose the highway.
Each of these systems involves some things that you control and some things that you don't, and that's okay. I'm just pointing out the folly of imagining that point-buy is entirely controlled by you and that random rolling is entirely random, and using that false logic as proof that one is better than the other.
Holy cow, had no idea someone took this so seriously. It's just stat generation. I never said one was better than the otehr, I just stated what I liked to use, and how odd some stats were that came from the Dice Pool method. Take a chill pill, man.
*backs away slowly*
I know what you mean. I started with a wisecrack about choosing high stats then I get accused of 'straw man arguments'.
Never mind. No matter how much we try to defuse things by using humour, some will fall on stoney ground. : /
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I believe that only druids should have access to owning exotic animals like tigers.
Oh Animal Archive, you and I have a love-hate relationship...
I love all the additional tricks and spells, but I loathe that any player can buy a combat trained tiger. I had to wait 7 levels before my tiger got that big.
Ah, but will your tiger listen to you? Haha, probably not...
I still love tigers.
Especially my tigers.
Malachi, you're also dragging your argument along into the absurd. Your logic is implying that there is no randomness in life, it's all a choice. If someone walks down the street and is hit by a car, it's all the pedestrians fault because he chose to be there at that time when that car crashed.
Fact is, stat generation is a choice, but the method of generation is more or less random than others.
Point-buy has randomness involved. You choose to allocate your points wherever you wish, no exceptions.
Anything involving dice, regardless of how stacked it is in the roller's favor, is inherently more random than point-buy.
Rolling dice models real life more than point-buy does. I did not get to choose which of my father's sperm impregnated which of my mother's eggs. If I could, I'd probably be a lot different than I am today.
Point-buy reminds me of the movie GATTACA, for those who've seen it. Basically, parents choose to genetically alter their children to remove defects and make 'more perfect' humans. The star of GATTACA, was born with no alterations at all, and is shunned by the society because he is less perfect. He can't get good jobs, can't get good opportunities, he's forced to menial labor to survive because he is genetically inferior to others.
The star of the movie was created by rolling dice, the society was created with point-buy. Yet despite all that, the star managed to overcome his weakness to achieve his goal.
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I'd rename Forgotten Realms as Deserves-to-be-Forgotten Realms.
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1) My players roll characters using 2d6+6, until you get 40pb
2) I don't believe in the word verisimilitude, or suspension of disbelief. My games are goofy, irreverent, and when serious mojo goes on (like Vrood circle of deathing our party rogue then raising her as a skeleton in the same round), I counter it with fun (aka making her token image the cover of Rob Zombie's Living Dead Girl single).
3) I hate Lovecraft. It sucks. BAD sucks. It is made fun of, referred to as Cthululand, and only ever sees my game when the monsters who happen to have tentacles start accosting that PC who chose the anime school girl as their token image.
4) Psionics are the bomb, even power points
4a) Dreamscarred's new classes in Expanded are far superior to anything Paizo has done since 1/3 of the APG classes
5) I don't like the magus, gunslinger, or any of the APG base classes other than Inquisitor.
6) I don't believe Cavaliers should have to have their own My Little Pony. Like requiring a PAL to have a mount, it ruins dungeon crawls. Mount ruined a great class.
7) I wish PF had 4e's self healing mechanic
8) I killed Golarion with a Xill invasion. It is now a brood world, and is better off.
9) I will not accept Asian themed characters into my home CS. There is no Asian analogue in my CS, and when I'm forced to play in others games, I cringe at the inevitable "Sho Pi, the monk" or "Kaijuitsu Samurai Inuyasha Fighter". Conversely, I ban ninja and samurai and make monks friars.
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I'd rename Forgotten Realms as Deserves-to-be-Forgotten Realms.
My friend used to tell me, "No! They were forgotten for a reason!" and I have that voice and tone stuck in my head to chime in every time someone talks about the realms.
I hate Lovecraft. It sucks. BAD sucks. It is made fun of, referred to as Cthululand, and only ever sees my game when the monsters who happen to have tentacles start accosting that PC who chose the anime school girl as their token image.
Blargh. Angry words. Rabble rabble rabble!
I think Doctor Who is pretty bad stuff that is not watchable