GM reference thread for The Midnight Isles.
I must admit some curiosity as to what would happen to Radiance and Yaniel's armor if no one in the group is a Paladin but did continue to use them up 'til this point (I mean, it's still a nice weapon even if it didn't bond to a Paladin) and
OK so I skimmed the PDF today. I have not had a chance to sit down and properly read Demon's Heresy yet, so I haven't bothered to fully read The Midnight Isles either. That said, at first glance there appears to be a number of things that a Paladin will have some difficulty with. It almost seems like they dangle some stuff in front of their nose as bait to fall, particularly all the friendly contact with denizens of the abyss, and potentially friendly contact with high ranking demons.
Much of the artwork is, as usual, stunning! The picture of Arushale on the cover is gorgeous, and she is quickly becoming one of my favorite NPC's. Hepzamirah's art is less impressive than I had hoped, but I like Minagho and Shamira, and I especially like Nocticula, Vellexia and the Fulsome Queen. They have a lot of character!
I'll be eager to really dive into the meat of it once I have had a chance to fully read through Demon's Heresy. I did notice what look like a few errors and oversights on my first glance at stats but perhaps I am not reading things right. Once I delve into it a bit more deeply if I do find some errors I will post them here.
Finally, I would like some help and advice from fellow DM's.
I found a model a couple of weeks ago that I just could not pass up purchasing. You can find it here. My thought when first looking at is was a Half Vrock, which could totally appear in this campaign, and I think this might be the volume to do it. So what I would like are some suggestions on how to make that a reality.
Should I make him a villain, or an ally? Or should I make him a redeemable villain? What class should I make him? I was thinking Magus, but with the playtest going on it might be nice to try out a Warpriest. Should I make him Mythic? What kinds of things can I do to make him more Vrock-Flavored? Where can I bring him in?
If anyone wants to chime in on this I would be grateful, and if you don't want to clutter the thread just PM me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Heh. You could always do something odd and have it be a half-celestial being who went into the Abyss to fight... and the PCs save him after he'd been captured. And Warpriest sounds like an interesting mix if you go that route.
Just into part 1 right now. Something that really jumps out at me, Minagho is listed as a CR 16, but the lilitu in Worldwound book is listed at CR17, and that's before her class levels. Now assuming that skill is not a "key" role for a Lilitu, Minagho should be a CR 20, that's 17 + 3 (1/2 class level). Since at this point the party is only level 12/tier 5 (APL of 14-15) this will be a nearly impossible fight for them.
Contributor
|
Just into part 1 right now. Something that really jumps out at me, Minagho is listed as a CR 16, but the lilitu in Worldwound book is listed at CR17, and that's before her class levels. Now assuming that skill is not a "key" role for a Lilitu, Minagho should be a CR 20, that's 17 + 3 (1/2 class level). Since at this point the party is only level 12/tier 5 (APL of 14-15) this will be a nearly impossible fight for them.
Just into part 1 right now. Something that really jumps out at me, Minagho is listed as a CR 16, but the lilitu in Worldwound book is listed at CR17, and that's before her class levels. Now assuming that skill is not a "key" role for a Lilitu, Minagho should be a CR 20, that's 17 + 3 (1/2 class level). Since at this point the party is only level 12/tier 5 (APL of 14-15) this will be a nearly impossible fight for them.** spoiler omitted **
Good catch, totally missed that. I was getting very concerned about what I was going to do with her. Crisis averted.
Heh. You could always do something odd and have it be a half-celestial being who went into the Abyss to fight... and the PCs save him after he'd been captured. And Warpriest sounds like an interesting mix if you go that route.
So I was thinking...
Perhaps the PC's could attempt to recover his mortal side by redeeming him?
Creative Director
|
Good catch, totally missed that. I was getting very concerned about what I was going to do with her. Crisis averted.Just into part 1 right now. Something that really jumps out at me, Minagho is listed as a CR 16, but the lilitu in Worldwound book is listed at CR17, and that's before her class levels. Now assuming that skill is not a "key" role for a Lilitu, Minagho should be a CR 20, that's 17 + 3 (1/2 class level). Since at this point the party is only level 12/tier 5 (APL of 14-15) this will be a nearly impossible fight for them.** spoiler omitted **
Yeah... that particular character has a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage... take those negative levels away and she is indeed CR 20.
Of course, if you think your PCs can handle her at that point... go ahead and take those gloves off and have at them! :-)
|
|
Good catch, totally missed that. I was getting very concerned about what I was going to do with her. Crisis averted.Just into part 1 right now. Something that really jumps out at me, Minagho is listed as a CR 16, but the lilitu in Worldwound book is listed at CR17, and that's before her class levels. Now assuming that skill is not a "key" role for a Lilitu, Minagho should be a CR 20, that's 17 + 3 (1/2 class level). Since at this point the party is only level 12/tier 5 (APL of 14-15) this will be a nearly impossible fight for them.** spoiler omitted **Yeah... that particular character has a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage... take those negative levels away and she is indeed CR 20.
Of course, if you think your PCs can handle her at that point... go ahead and take those gloves off and have at them! :-)
Hey, it's the easy way for magnus to challenge his players!
Hey, it's the easy way for magnus to challenge his players!Good catch, totally missed that. I was getting very concerned about what I was going to do with her. Crisis averted.Just into part 1 right now. Something that really jumps out at me, Minagho is listed as a CR 16, but the lilitu in Worldwound book is listed at CR17, and that's before her class levels. Now assuming that skill is not a "key" role for a Lilitu, Minagho should be a CR 20, that's 17 + 3 (1/2 class level). Since at this point the party is only level 12/tier 5 (APL of 14-15) this will be a nearly impossible fight for them.** spoiler omitted **Yeah... that particular character has a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage... take those negative levels away and she is indeed CR 20.
Of course, if you think your PCs can handle her at that point... go ahead and take those gloves off and have at them! :-)
Not if she's a solo combat encounter. Action economy trumps advantageous stats unless you make her advantage really too big to surmount (like seems to be the case for Noctikula). Adding additional minions probably is the better idea, although that will get most likely create the cramped quarters problem.
Keep in mind that I don't have the module yet, so I am just throwing out random things which normally turn out to be problems in AP encounter design. :p
|
|
Hey, it's the easy way for magnus to challenge his players!Not if she's a solo combat encounter. Action economy trumps advantageous stats unless you make her advantage really too big to surmount (like seems to be the case for Noctikula). Adding additional minions probably is the better idea, although that will get most likely create the cramped quarters problem.
Keep in mind that I don't have the module yet, so I am just throwing out random things which normally turn out to be problems in AP encounter design. :p
Oh, I know. I'm just giving you crap because you're the poster child for needing to modify the scenario and James put forward a way to take off the gloves for that encounter. Which I don't have yet either.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh, I know. I'm just giving you crap because you're the poster child for needing to modify the scenario and James put forward a way to take off the gloves for that encounter. Which I don't have yet either.Hey, it's the easy way for magnus to challenge his players!Not if she's a solo combat encounter. Action economy trumps advantageous stats unless you make her advantage really too big to surmount (like seems to be the case for Noctikula). Adding additional minions probably is the better idea, although that will get most likely create the cramped quarters problem.
Keep in mind that I don't have the module yet, so I am just throwing out random things which normally turn out to be problems in AP encounter design. :p
I'm just the most vocal guy, but hardly the only one who complains about things being too easy. :p The good thing is that Pathfinder is modular enough to allow for readjustments when you have a non-standard party. The bad thing is that it is a ton of work (which I want to avoid when running AP's) and that things like dungeon design are also done with four players in mind, leading to things like cramped encounters.
|
|
The most vocal is usually the poster child. ;)
My players (now down to four, 25 point buy) are going up against Soltengrabbe with zero changes this weekend. Depending on how they do against him will determine if I rebuild the rest of system. They've been routinely ignoring the friendly NPCs so they really don't have any additional help.
The most vocal is usually the poster child. ;)
Well, as long I as do I with good arguments, instead of what just sound like whining, so be it. :p
My players (now down to four, 25 point buy) are going up against Soltengrabbe with zero changes this weekend. Depending on how they do against him will determine if I rebuild the rest of system. They've been routinely ignoring the friendly NPCs so they really don't have any additional help.
Keep us updated, tomorrow my group will their first mythic tier. :)
The most vocal is usually the poster child. ;)
My players (now down to four, 25 point buy) are going up against Soltengrabbe with zero changes this weekend. Depending on how they do against him will determine if I rebuild the rest of system. They've been routinely ignoring the friendly NPCs so they really don't have any additional help.
My guess is 25 point buy will crush him. My players are 20 point buy right now, and I think even at 15 point buy they would have had no significant problems. YMMV.
It's always best in my opinion to go with the cinematic fights for these creatures. Especially when they're Mythic. Having a Mythic foe drop in two rounds is boring. Having it shrug off attacks and the like so that the PCs go "oh [censored]" makes it more enjoyable for them.
Some people may claim otherwise, but I also hear those people complaining when foes drop too fast for them and they weren't the one doing the finishing blow.
Reagarding Queen Galfrey does anyone else think the art looks familiar (Has her image been in another Paizo product that I just cant remember?)
I believe it's on the cover of the Wrath of the Righteous Player's Guide.
|
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
From the Ask James Jacobs thread and I thought people running this might find useful:
When Baphomet's manifestation is stopped by Nocticula he loses one of his horns. Does the horn remain behind when he leaves or does it return with him? Does it disintegrate or can someone take it or would Nocticula take it? If so does it have any awesome properties to be revealed later or is it just an awesome trophy?
It's up to you what happens to it. It doesn't play a role in the AP though. It would certainly make an awesome trophy.
Also, it wasn't really spelled out clearly in Midnight Isles... but Nocticula actually KILLS Baphomet when she stops him at the end of "Midnight Isles," which means he is resurrected in his Abyssal Realm but gets really timid about further risks... which is why the PCs are able to invade his realm in the next adventure without him immediately trying to stop them.
Still reading through.
Whenever(?) I get to run this, I am tempted to change some of the beginning so that the players are asked to close the Midnight Fane, but in doing so accidentally trap themselves in Nocticula's realm. They then have to travel to the capital to get out, and in doing so get involved in permanently ending the mining operation.
For some reason, I also want to revamp Rapture of Rupture as a 1920's style speak-easy bar. I mean this is the Abyss after all...no reason to assume that different high-ranking demons are only pulling from Golarion culture.
I am really loving up on the Art work in Wrath of the Righteous. Only problem I really have is 1/2 the names I can't pronounce, really need a pronunciation guide for them.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here is how I pronounce the 16 names listed on the covers. The syllable in all capital letters is where the emphasis falls (One syllable names are all caps):
Anevia Tirabade: Ah-NEV-ee-ah TEER-ah-bayd
Aravashinal: Are-ah-VASH-in-all
Horgus Gwerm: HOR-gus GWERM
Irabeth Tirabade: EER-ah-beth TEER-ah-bayd
Galfrey: GAL-fray
Sosiel Vaenic: SO-see-el VAY-nik
Aron Kir: AH-ron KEER
Arueshalae: Ah-ROO-sha-lay
Now the hard ones
Khorramzadeh: Cor-ROM-za-deh
Areelu Vorlesh: Ah-REE-lew VOR-lesh
Nurah Dendiwhar: NOO-rah DEN-deh-wahr
Staunton Vhane: STON-tun VAYN
Xanthir Vang: ZAN-theer VANG
Hepzamirah: Hepp-zah-MEER-ah
Deskari: Des-KAR-ee
I can also do any other names you have trouble with. Just let me know. I cannot guarantee this is how the devs intended the names to be pronounced, especially considering the chaotic nature of the abyssal forces, but it's how I pronounce them.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As Whovians, our group pronounces Galfrey as ROH-Mah-Nah-De-Vor-Ra-Teh-LOON-Dar IV, Lady President of Gallifrey and Mendev. This tends to confuse her, but it's entirely sincere and respectful, so she's game enough to run with it. They're hardcore like that.
Perception checks have yet to detect K-9 Mark II, but the PCs continue to try.
As Whovians, our group pronounces Galfrey as ROH-Mah-Nah-De-Vor-Ra-Teh-LOON-Dar IV, Lady President of Gallifrey and Mendev. This tends to confuse her, but it's entirely sincere and respectful, so she's game enough to run with it. They're hardcore like that.
Perception checks have yet to detect K-9 Mark II, but the PCs continue to try.
HA!
I had assumed Irabeth was EYE-ra-beth but I could easily be wrong
I had assumed Irabeth was EYE-ra-beth but I could easily be wrong
Could probably be pronounced either way, honestly. That's certainly a valid pronunciation of the name.
Well, I'll bow to the creative director, I suppose
Well, I'll bow to the creative director, I suppose
I personally use EAR-ah-beth for her pronunciation, but at the end of the day its your game and if it makes more sense to pronounce it as EYE-rah-beth then go with it :)
I actually kinda like EYE-ra-beth a little better to be honest. It's a bit more unique, and actually has an analog in our world. Ira is a Hebrew name meaning Watchful, and it is pronounced EYE-rah. Irabeth could be a conjunction of that name and Elizabeth, which is also derived from the Hebrew Elisheva, which means My God is an Oath or My God is Abundance. Combined, the name could mean Sacred Oathkeeper, as in one who is observant of their oaths to their God.
Kinda makes sense considering her class choice, though I could be reading a little bit too much into a random name someone generated for a fantasy setting ;-P
|
I actually kinda like EYE-ra-beth a little better to be honest. It's a bit more unique, and actually has an analog in our world. Ira is a Hebrew name meaning Watchful, and it is pronounced EYE-rah.
It is actually pronounced Eh-run, and doesn't really mean "watchful". It's just a name that appeared in the bible (also, it's a name for boys, not for girl). Some people associate it with "watchful" because the word "watchful" is pronounced EH-rah-ni, but it could also easily be associated with "fresh" - "RAH-ah-NUN", or really with anything else people can come up with. The actually name simple refers to the name of some dude from one of the ancient Hebrew tribes.
I actually kinda like EYE-ra-beth a little better to be honest. It's a bit more unique, and actually has an analog in our world. Ira is a Hebrew name meaning Watchful, and it is pronounced EYE-rah.It is actually pronounced Eh-run, and doesn't really mean "watchful". It's just a name that appeared in the bible (also, it's a name for boys, not for girl). Some people associate it with "watchful" because the word "watchful" is pronounced EH-rah-ni, but it could also easily be associated with "fresh" - "RAH-ah-NUN", or really with anything else people can come up with. The actually name simple refers to the name of some dude from one of the ancient Hebrew tribes.
The Wiki article had it pronounced EYE-rah and listed the meaning as Watchful, which is where my info came from. It also had it listed as a unisex name. I don't speak Hebrew so of course I cannot confirm this myself, and Wikipedia is editable by anyone so I suppose my source is also suspect ;-)
I just read through this and must say: Great job, Paizo! The artwork in this one is some of the best I've seen.
I wonder whether there is any more info out there on Iomedae's herald? I'm wondering how to make Baphomet's dread announcement more interesting to the players who might respond with "Who?"
Has anyone else thought of including an encounter with him/her so this announcement has more impact?
Magnus, you seem to have the most experience with "non-standard groups". I'm going to have 6 players, 3 relative newbies, 2 players with decent experience, and 1 with some experience. To try and make things challenging, would full hp for all monsters and an extra +2 for all d20 rolls be too much? I'm limiting the players to the core rules, but they can choose an oracle, inquisitor, or aasimar if they want. Thoughts? Anybody can jump in on this one if they wish.
Magnus, you seem to have the most experience with "non-standard groups". I'm going to have 6 players, 3 relative newbies, 2 players with decent experience, and 1 with some experience. To try and make things challenging, would full hp for all monsters and an extra +2 for all d20 rolls be too much? I'm limiting the players to the core rules, but they can choose an oracle, inquisitor, or aasimar if they want. Thoughts? Anybody can jump in on this one if they wish.
When I ran Kingmaker it was for 5 players, 2 inexperienced and 3 experienced and all I did was max every things HP out and on occasion add an extra mook.
With 6 players I would an extra mooks more frequently and max out all HP. The easiest way to make a boss encounter more dangerous is to add a few minions to complicate things. Take the Mythic Chimera fight in book 2, maybe add in a regular chimera or 2 with 6 players.
I wonder whether there is any more info out there on Iomedae's herald?This one?
Thanks. I'm thinking of making the Herald a recurring character, an advisor of sorts. Perhaps if and when my players earn their Devotion Points in Book 1, and someone who approaches them when they achieve mythic power, explains it, occasionally gives important advice, and so on. Also, followers of Iomedae should occasionally mention him in the same breath and I'll cook up some mythology about him.
Not only would this set up Baphomet's announcement, but also greaten the impact of one of the PCs becoming Iomedae's herald later.
It might be interesting to make him Galfrey's lover. As far as I can tell it doesn't mention her having a significant other and she is not too far behind him in power so it should be easy enough to explain. Granted it's not normal for an angel to have a mortal lover, but it does happen. Might make for an interesting way to introduce him, and make the impact of his death more of a shock.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have an interesting use for the herald of Iomedae in my campaign so I'd like a few opinions on if these plans sound cool or not.
First a little background:
One of my players is an Angelkin Aasimar named Gerrard. Gerrard is a Dawnflower Dervish Bard/Dragon Disciple. He was raised by his mother, a human Dawnflower Dervish and free spirited wanderer who had a steamy, short-lived romance with a mysterious man. Gerrard was the product of that romance. Born an Angelkin Aasimar he always assumed his father was related to a good outsider but his mother never spoke of the man.
After finding that his lawful nature clashed with his mother's chaotic wandering lifestyle, Gerrard struck out on his own. His nature differed from his mother, but she had imparted unto him a faith in Sarenrae and a love of the Scimitar. Still, he struggles daily with an internal conflict. The god he serves is Neutral Good, but his strongest desire is to uphold the law above all else, even if it means taking a less-than-good path. He is not evil, in fact he has a bias toward good, but he feels good and evil get in the way of true law. He fights constantly against his good nature to avoid it "clouding his judgement".
A few things about Gerrard:
-His draconic bloodline ostensibly comes from his mother's side. Somewhere down the line an ancestor mated with a silver dragon and the product was never very strong, but the spark lied dormant in his family blood until he was present for Terendelev's death at the hand of the Storm King. Her blood covered him, awakening his draconic heritage and driving him to the path of the Dragon Disciple.
-Gerrard's appearance and personal rituals are important to him. He likes order in his life, and he sees perfection of body as a way to maintain that order even while being tested by the powers of chaos. Watching his perfect form change as his draconic bloodline emerges bothers him immensely.
-Gerrard does not have a campaign trait presented in the book. He has one I designed which will play to his heritage. He did not join the group until just before they attacked the Templars of the Ivory Labyrinth at the end of The Worldwound Incursion.
So my idea is for the herald of Iomedae to be the mystery man Gerrard's mother had a fling with, and when he was recalled back to Iomedae's service (as is oft to happen with Angel/mortal relationships) his mother was left to care for him.
His extreme desire to serve the forces of law, and his tendency to lean toward good come from his angelic parentage, however he was not born a Half Celestial because the dragon blood on his mothers side caused a conflict. Both attempted to come out in strength, but neither was able to manifest strongly enough to make him a half-celestial or half-dragon. Terendelev's blood covering him at the beginning of the campaign sparked his Dragon blood to take the lead first, but his Mythic potential comes from his father's side.
The books hint at a PC becoming the new Herald of Iomedae when the current one is slain by Baphomet, so having Gerrard learn of his father's identity sometime before the end of book 3, then finding that the Herald is taken by Baphomet might give him a personal impetus to go after the Demon Lord. Additionally it could lead to him having a tough choice to make, either to accept his fate and become the herald of a god he is destined to serve, or forsake his destiny and stay true to Sarenrae's faith. I would not make him lose access to Dawnflower Dervish, since Iomedae knows diversity of faith makes for a strong people, and I feel one can still pray to Sarenrae while serving Iomedae. It would also be an ironic twist considering he looks down on the Paladin in the party who does not serve one god in particular. It might also help him accept that not all chaos is bad, and help him come to terms with his own duality.
Does this sound like a cool idea or should I scrap it?
(I would have edited the above post but apparently you cannot edit after a certain amount of time?)
The other option would be to change Heralds and instead make it Sarenrae's Herald that is Gerrard's father, and captured/killed by Baphomet. I just don't know the ramifications of making a change like that on later volumes....
|
Well from what I was understanding was that the herald was taken by baphomet and he was going to make him into his herald to fight the pc's and we need to either rescue the herald or kill him. Only my understanding and you can always change the adventures. But I was actual thinking along the same lines as you with one of my characters (cleric of iomedae and iomedae's daughter) become her herald.
Well from what I was understanding was that the herald was taken by baphomet and he was going to make him into his herald to fight the pc's and we need to either rescue the herald or kill him. Only my understanding and you can always change the adventures. But I was actual thinking along the same lines as you with one of my characters (cleric of iomedae and iomedae's daughter) become her herald.
That must be in the summary of the first book in the back cause I missed that part. I know I read those summaries but I have not recently re-read them. I'll have to re-read through some of that stuff.
I really wish the books had a better indicator of what was going to happen in upcoming issues. It would make DMing as the books are being released a little easier.
|
Creative Director
|
Well from what I was understanding was that the herald was taken by baphomet and he was going to make him into his herald to fight the pc's and we need to either rescue the herald or kill him. Only my understanding and you can always change the adventures. But I was actual thinking along the same lines as you with one of my characters (cleric of iomedae and iomedae's daughter) become her herald.That must be in the summary of the first book in the back cause I missed that part. I know I read those summaries but I have not recently re-read them. I'll have to re-read through some of that stuff.
I really wish the books had a better indicator of what was going to happen in upcoming issues. It would make DMing as the books are being released a little easier.
We do what we can for that, but it's not a great idea to sacrifice a book's current content in order to prep for the next one. There's certainly a lot of wisdom to waiting for all 6 parts of an AP to be out before you run it... but the GM can ALWAYS change things around to make things work.
We do what we can for that, but it's not a great idea to sacrifice a book's current content in order to prep for the next one. There's certainly a lot of wisdom to waiting for all 6 parts of an AP to be out before you run it... but the GM can ALWAYS change things around to make things work.Well from what I was understanding was that the herald was taken by baphomet and he was going to make him into his herald to fight the pc's and we need to either rescue the herald or kill him. Only my understanding and you can always change the adventures. But I was actual thinking along the same lines as you with one of my characters (cleric of iomedae and iomedae's daughter) become her herald.That must be in the summary of the first book in the back cause I missed that part. I know I read those summaries but I have not recently re-read them. I'll have to re-read through some of that stuff.
I really wish the books had a better indicator of what was going to happen in upcoming issues. It would make DMing as the books are being released a little easier.
Well then let me ask directly. If I change the Herald of Iomedae to the Herald of Sarenrae will that have a massive story impact in later episodes, or is it just as simple as some stat adjustments and swapping the name/style of one god for another?
I believe both Thalacos, Herald of Sarenrae, and the Hand of the Inheritor, Herald of Iomedae, have been previously statted in Adventure Path backmatter. Presumably, when Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth comes out, the corrupted Thalacos' stats will involve twisted versions of his existing ones with Mythic Power layered on. Making it Thalacos instead will require building a new stat block from the ground up. It also makes more sense for Baphomet to target Iomedae's herald, as she is the driving force of the Crusades. But Sarenrae's church is certainly strongly involved in comabting the Worldwound as well. I leave it to people in the know to answer your question, but I wouldn't imagine that the switch would run into more significant issues than that.