So I have been looking at the resonant powers of the Iridescent spindle when you put it in a wayfinder. The regular power of the ioun stone is just not needing to breathe. The resonant power is this:
"Endure elements, as the spell, as well as protection against exposure to vacuum and underwater pressure."
So I want to make sure, since the vacuum of space is kind of an uncharted area in rules and concepts whether or not this phrase and the previous not needing to breathe = Can survive in space. And if so, should I assume similar details to our own Earth, such as the 100 km range you would have to reach above the planet to break or achieve a sustainable orbit and become weightless?
First, since we are firmly outside of the rules here Im not sure this belongs in the Rules Forum.
With that said, Endure Elements would not protect against the cold or heat of near 'earth' space. In the sunlight the temperature is approximately 250F and in the shade it is approximately (-250)F. Both are well outside of Endure Elements range.
Link
- Gauss
This makes me want to see two new archetypes for the Druid: Void Druid and Moon Druid. It's... probably better not to think about what kind of animal companions they'd have...
Al Gore: I have ridden the mighty Moon Worm!
Space whales or muppets
I had been hoping that this was the final piece of a canon 'magic spacesuit' that can be used while wild shaped since I have been considering the fact that while there are certainly other classes that have abilities that can help them get to space, the Druid seems to be the most practical choice for entering Golarion's orbit. Combined with the Ring of Sustenance this would be everything you would need for a prolonged journey.
If the 'magic spacesuit' works, and we assume that the Pathfinder solar system is relative in distance, A Druid wild shaped into an air elemental with longstrider doing a full run action every round can move 264000 ft in an hour, exactly 50 mph. This means that a Druid moving at top speed can reach the Karmin line in the Thermospere (the 100 km/65 mile minimum distance you would need to be from the planet to orbit with the space station in total weightlessness.) in roughly an hour and fifteen minutes. At this point the Druid would be able to watch Golarion spinning under their feet. At this speed, the Druid could reach any location on Golarion in less than 24 hours.
If we are to also to use our moon as the model for the Golarion moon Somal, then Somal would be on average 235000 miles from Golarion. This means a Druid moving at 50 mph under their own power (not using Golarion's orbit to slingshot it to Somal) would on average take 4700 hours or 196 days to carry a wagon full of corpses and a fake journal describing a doomed Oregon Trail style journey through space to the surface of the moon.
Assuming you overcome the heat/cold issue you still cannot do a full run action every round without getting fatigued.
Additionally, it could be ruled that an air elemental well, needs something to work against to fly. A medium to move through. The vacuum of space would not seem to qualify. I would stick with a spell effect assuming magic worked outside of Golarion.
- Gauss
Space whales or muppetsThis makes me want to see two new archetypes for the Druid: Void Druid and Moon Druid. It's... probably better not to think about what kind of animal companions they'd have...
Al Gore: I have ridden the mighty Moon Worm!
Then again, what is the temperature in a vacuum, and what would happen to a Druid exposed nonchalantly to a vacuum? Since there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum, (even the vast emptiness of the dark tapestry has sparse particles) we have to assume that we are referring to the only naturally occurring near vacuum: space.
If we continue the Golarion / Earth physics parallel, we rely on our closest estimate of the temperature average of space, which is 3 Kelvin or roughly -454 degrees fahrenheit. Now if an item boasts "protection against exposure to vacuum", it would have to account for temperatures of zero Kelvin at least, the actual temperature (or lack of?) in a true vacuum.
And while momentum would certainly be lost in space due to the incidental amounts of matter floating in the vast emptiness, a Druid would be able to coast with the amount of momentum generated by flying full run for a sprint, much like how the average space shuttle fires it's boosters in bursts rather than burning fuel at a constant rate. Astronauts allow for complex predictive mathematical algorithms to use bursts of speed to redirect the momentum of the ship like an arrow to it's target. I assume that with a Druid capable of reaching 50 mph the same principle would apply, allowing the Druid to sprint, coast for a long time, sprint, coast for a long time, etc.
With the Air elemental needing air to fly, I suppose the assumption is the elemental's flight is based on having an atmosphere. This brings up an interesting question, does an air elemental create it's own atmosphere? Let's look at Call Lightning, a spell that becomes more powerful due to the stormy whirlwind of a large sized or larger air elemental. Storms are one of the simplest byproducts of atmosphere, for an air elemental to be able to charge a Call Lightning spell it would have to be able to ionize in order to carry that charge, it would have to have some facsimile of water vapor and various other gases to ionize itself.
If this is true, the air elemental would be producing it's own atmosphere. It wouldn't be a tremendous leap to say that it can fly because it carries it's own atmosphere with it.
Endure Elements works from -50 F to 140 F. The temperature of near earth space is -250 in the shade and +250 F in the sunlight which is way outside of the scope of Endure Elements. There is no middle ground either.
- Gauss
to paraphrase Jurassic Park "natu*cough* I mean, magic finds a way." spell research baby, Greater Endure Elements ftw.
I would argue that the Endure Elements is an addition to the ioun stone resonant power, not a clarification that the item is only based on Endure Elements.
The item puts the Druid under Endure Elements. It also protects the Druid from the vacuum. It's not 'the item puts the Druid under endure elements and only protects the Druid from as much vacuum as the limitations of the Endure Elements spell'. The vacuum part is an added power.
It's like if someone made an item that 'put the wearer under the effect of freedom of movement, as well as lets the wearer walk through stone walls'. Freedom of movement lets you resist a number of obstacles from magical and natural rough terrain to grapples, but it doesn't let you move through solid obstructions like walls. It puts the wearer under freedom of movement. It also lets the wearer walk through stone walls. Otherwise they wouldn't really have a reason to add that part about the vacuum. You're never going to find a vacuum without extreme temperatures in the technology level of Golarion, so I'm not sure why the assumption is that this item was made for all those vacuums without extreme temperatures out there.
Don't worry, I'm not trying to make this into an item that makes you immune to fire or ice damage (nor physical damage, as someone who was actually strong enough to resist the extreme pressures of deep sea would probably be). I'm still seeing 'magic spacesuit'. Blowtorch or put liquid nitrogen on a space suit, or hit it with a Vicious Greatsword and that space suit will not protect you. A space suit will protect you from temperatures outside in space, but would disintegrate as fast as anything if you tried to float into the sun. All it does is insulate you from the harmful effects of the vacuum. That's practically the definition of a spacesuit, it protects you from exposure to the vacuum of space.
If the wayfinders really are these devices based on Azlanti magical technology, and the Resonant powers from putting ioun stones into wayfinders is an expression of that technology, and we know that the Azlantis explored space, it makes sense that they would have a magic spacesuit.
Vacuum is not heat and cold. Vacuum is a lack of pressure and does not include all the other possibilities that may occur in a given locale. Should your air bubble protection against the vacuum of space also protect against metorites? What about meteors?
The intent of the Iridescent Spindle resonant power is clearly to protect against a variety of pressures, not an all encompassing protection system against anything that may be used against you. For that matter, it doesn't even mention space at all, just vacuum.
Im not saying that the Azlanti did not have a magic spacesuit. Who knows? Im saying that this resonant power is, at best, only one component of that and that component only covers maintaining a breathable atmosphere and limited (ie: endure elements) temperature control.
- Gauss
The magic spacesuit from Distant Worlds "protects the wearer from temperature extremes (as if by endure elements)" so apparently that's all you need to survive the temperature extremes of space in PF. Iridescent spindle wayfinder is go!
First, since we are firmly outside of the rules here Im not sure this belongs in the Rules Forum.
No, actually we're not outside the rules at all. This sort of stuff is all covered in Distant Worlds.
drbuzzard, thanks, I didnt realize it had been covered in Distant Worlds. I may have to pick up that book.
- Gauss
drbuzzard, thanks, I didnt realize it had been covered in Distant Worlds. I may have to pick up that book.
- Gauss
It's a pretty neat book really. Lots of cool concepts in there. Of course I'm lazy and just run adventure paths, so I haven't really used any of it.