| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I keep hearing that, but in the games I've seen, played in and run, that really hasn't been the case...
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I keep hearing that, but in the games I've seen, played in and run, that really hasn't been the case...
Odraude, when will you learn? Your so called "actual game experience" is irrelevant as it's tainted by social interactions that have no relevance to pure math and refined theory. ;-)
a lot of DMs smight the Ninja and Samurai far before it could come close to taking the place of the Rouge same with the gunslinger and to a lesser extent any thing after core. i think of my self as a pretty open DM and you ether a elf or have a good story why your not a elf if you want a eastern class in my realm.
@Gorbacz
well there is that
I keep hearing that, but in the games I've seen, played in and run, that really hasn't been the case...Odraude, when will you learn? Your so called "actual game experience" is irrelevant as it's tainted by social interactions that have no relevance to pure math and refined theory. ;-)
Drat, how could I have forgotten. Thank you for showing me the way, bag with teeth :D
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Drat, how could I have forgotten. Thank you for showing me the way, bag with teeth :DI keep hearing that, but in the games I've seen, played in and run, that really hasn't been the case...Odraude, when will you learn? Your so called "actual game experience" is irrelevant as it's tainted by social interactions that have no relevance to pure math and refined theory. ;-)
Duh, figures! Your claim to have had any "fun" (whatever that is, unquantifiable non-algebraic terms are all useless anyway) while playing a Rogue implies that you have been all playing Cops and Robbers and are now on a group hallucination believing there were any rules involved.
"Fun", heh. I don't need that. I have my armchair and my calculator. That's more than enough!
I played a game once where our "better rogue" could neither find or disable traps and he didn't yet have evasion for when said traps went off, to which I retorted, WORST ROGUE EVER.
The way we handle Ninja and Samurai is that if it's a campaign that has a reason to have one (Jade Regent) someone will play one if they want. If not, then no one plays one.
There's also the fact that Ninjas are rogues... it's an alternate class (extended archetype) and not a different class. This would be like complaining Archaeologist (bard archetype) killed Bard.
Well if the classes are going to be more hybrids with some familiar mechanic, ala Ninja (Rogue/Monk), then it should be easier to get them down a bit.
I really hope they stick with warpriest. For me, it's a very evocative name that fits well with the cleric/fighter concept.
I'd laugh if war priest is just the same thing as a cleric with heavy armor, and 4+ INT skills per level.
My players are already ecstatic to play test the new classes. Any mention of when we'll hear about the rest of the classes? ... Hopefully before the full play test comes out in the fall?
Given how much back and forth there was about the name Magus for a class, I'd be surprised if they decided to go with War Priest (and am kind of surprised it's even been put out there that way).
I'm fuzzy on specifics (and can't seem to find a related thread at the moment), but it seems to me someone at Paizo (Jason Bulmahn?) talked about how they didn't want a name that was just two names (separate or conjoined), or didn't want weird names (like Gish), but wanted to have a single word name that was descriptive of the class.
I trust Paizo will not classes that with make other classes useless like 3.5 did so many times.Ninja killed Rogue
I disagree and the Ninja is a Rogue
I trust Paizo will not classes that with make other classes useless like 3.5 did so many times.Ninja killed Rogue
Not in any of my campaigns. In fact, I've had two ninjas get retired in favor of returning to the rogue class.
I like the name Templar but crusader would be cool for the War priest as well.
The Shaman is the one they mention that interest me most. I can't wait to find out what all of the ten classes will be.
|
Was not expecting that.
Rather "meh" about this release so far. Most of 2014 to be honest.
I imagine they needed a strong attractive release to go up against 5e. But I really have enough classes. I could handle a couple more, likely the spellcaster/martial hybrids and maybe a swashbuckler. But ten?! That's more than in the APG. Yikes.
I imagine we'll see some more alternate rules and the like. Psychic magic does seem to be requested and we need content for the Numeria AP.
Hopefully as we learn more I'll get more interested.
|
|
"--It has 10 new classes, which are hybrid classes stylized after the Magus.
--UPDATE: Playtest this Fall.
--War Priest (Cleric / Fighter)----Cruisader/Templar type sounds right. Though Id say Cleric / Cavalier not Cleric / Fighter
--Slayer (Ranger / Rogue)-----Assassin but it may draw upon The Buffy type slayer mythology
--Hunter (Druid / Ranger)-----Bounty Hunter type to stay iconic
--Shaman (Oracle / Witch)"----Very iconic needed role.
Other 6 I feel are iconic enough to be brought out
Artificer (A Techie type...A Creator. Though they may have to change the name ;)) (Alchemist / Gunslinger) poor BAB, D6 HP 'specializes in item creation that mimic magic' 6 SP per level
Psychic (Mentalist type) (Oracle / Wizard) poor Bab D8 HP. Have Monk-like progression of abilities that mirror Magic spells 4 SP
Wu-Jen (Elementalist Wizards) (Druid / Wizard) Poor BAB D6 HP. Prepared Caster merging all elemental spells from Cleric/Wizard lists. 2 SP
Swashbuckler (Rogue / Fighter) Light Armor with Monk Like Armor Bonus but maybe for Cha instead of Wis. 'derring do' that is similar to Grit. Have weapon list and not martial or simple. D8 HP, Good BAB, 4 SP
Magician (Bard / Alchemist) A charlatan, a Fake. delayed spell progression til 4th. have spell like abilities prior to that. 6 SP, Average BAB, D8 HP.
War Mage (Cavalier / Sorcerer) Delayed Spell Progression til 4th. Can wear Heavy Armor. Very Limited Spell List Buff's and Evocations but from Cleric/lists as well D10 HP, 2 SP, Good BAB, Simple Weapons + Lances
I know a lot people that will be happy about the Artificer and Swashbuckler.
I glad to get a Psychic but "Have Monk-like progression of abilities that mirror magic spells" sounds different then I expected.
Wu-Jen, cool, I like the sound of this version.
A Magician class that is actually like a real world version of a magician, sounds cool.
I hope they change the War Mages name.
I think those are speculative, not something that's actually been reported as being in the book.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Dread's final six are speculative as far as I'm aware. I'm actually curious at to an actual announcement officialwise from Paizo. ;)
Yeah, I see that list as speculative, too. Not really seeing a Swashbuckler class as a hybrid, though, unless you mean a Fighter/Ranger is one. ^^
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Can I ask something? Why are people so excited about a Numeria AP? Is there something I missed where Numeria is like super awesome land or something?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is there something I missed where Numeria is like super awesome land or something?
Clearly. :p
Seriously, though, to answer your question: Those of us who are excited have long been hoping for some further development of Numeria- the clash of magic and technology, a pulp high fantasy feel like the works of Burroughs' John Carter series, etc.
Some really enjoyed the Expedition to the Barrier Peaks adventure of 1E; myself, I was always a big Blackmoor fan.
|
Contributor
|
I think I'd like this book to take an approach similar to the Advance Race Guide. Present rules for the building of classes based on point values or a similar metric. There's nothing that says you can't have one class that is more powerful than another, as long as you have a sense of what that power level is, so you can ensure that other players in your group have characters with a similar power level.
At present, I'm not sure how that would work, but I think it's a good way to go. I think it was within the last year or so that I first realized that I hadn't heard of any good books that teach people how to create a character class. We have core rules for magic items and monsters. We have guidelines for creating spells (especially when you look at something like Words of Power to assess a spell effect's relative power level). And, of course, we have the ARG for races.
But I haven't seen any books that lay out a system for developing a new class. If the Advanced Class Guide provides that, I'll be a very happy camper.
I guess I just miss the days when Paizo was more about adventures than rules.You are right. We just have two adventure paths (12 volumes), a 300+ page super dungeon, the next RPG Superstar module, and two or more PFS scenarios each month. By my count, thats at least 1,836 pages of adventures, compared to 732 pages of rules product. Certainly shows our lack of committment to adventures.
Lisa
Cheap shot, Lisa. And an especially disappointing one, coming as it did from you. :(
Well let's be honest, the days you were referencing were when Paizo ONLY did adventures instead of rules.
Absolutely. And I realize my dislike of supplementary crunch puts me in the minority (which I think I've already said). But hostility and snark in response to a politely expressed opinion? Sorry, but that's just uncool, not to mention unprofessional, and definitely not what I expected from Lisa.
Agree with an arcane 4 level full BAB class. Bounty Hunter class, Ranger/inquisitor feel with arcane spells. Awesome.A Witcher then :-))
This really makes me feel that Paizo is surfing on the interest raised by other people's work, such as the MultiClass Archetypes crew or some 3pps who already tried their hands at this.
I hope we will have more than Paizo's rebranding what other people have already done.
That said, I have mostly been happily surprised with the quality of Paizo rules books. So I still have hope for this one :-)
[Emphasis mine]
Thanks for the mention, The black raven!! We've worked very hard over the past few years to bring a heap of exciting character options to Pathfinder. You could say Multiclass Archetypes are the definition of "hybrid"!
For those interested, check out our Multiclass Archetypes wiki we have over one hundred archetypes ready to go and plenty more under development available for view and use!!!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well let's be honest, the days you were referencing were when Paizo ONLY did adventures instead of rules.Absolutely. And I realize my dislike of supplementary crunch puts me in the minority (which I think I've already said). But hostility and snark in response to a politely expressed opinion? Sorry, but that's just uncool, not to mention unprofessional, and definitely not what I expected from Lisa.
Act like a troll get treated like a troll. I thought it was a great reply full of facts to your complaint
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Act like a troll get treated like a troll. I thought it was a great reply full of facts to your complaint
Troll? Really?
Obviously I"m not going to garner much sympathy here -- which Lisa surely knew when she basically called open season on me -- but I was in no way, shape, or form trolling. I expressed my opinion respectfully, and got a face-full of snark for it. In my opinion, that was uncalled for -- as is piling on now. Not that it is going to matter.
Have a nice night.
Act like a troll get treated like a troll. I thought it was a great reply full of facts to your complaint
I don't see why "new books" has to equal "new crunch" -- although I understand crunch sells the best, which simply means Paizo is giving people what they want. I guess I just miss the days when Paizo was more about adventures than rules.
In any event, I'm not trying to convert anyone to my side, just to foster understanding and demonstrate that the "anti-bloat" position isn't inherently irrational. I guess what I perceived to be an implication of hysteria just ruffled my feathers. It's not like any of this is important in the grand scheme of things, after all. :)
You may not agree or he may even have been incorrect, but it was hardly a trollish "complaint".
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I guess I just miss the days when Paizo was more about adventures than rules.You are right. We just have two adventure paths (12 volumes), a 300+ page super dungeon, the next RPG Superstar module, and two or more PFS scenarios each month. By my count, thats at least 1,836 pages of adventures, compared to 732 pages of rules product. Certainly shows our lack of committment to adventures.
Lisa
Cheap shot, Lisa. And an especially disappointing one, coming as it did from you. :(
It's only a cheap shot because you set yourself up for it so well :)
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I guess I just miss the days when Paizo was more about adventures than rules.You are right. We just have two adventure paths (12 volumes), a 300+ page super dungeon, the next RPG Superstar module, and two or more PFS scenarios each month. By my count, thats at least 1,836 pages of adventures, compared to 732 pages of rules product. Certainly shows our lack of committment to adventures.
Lisa
Cheap shot, Lisa. And an especially disappointing one, coming as it did from you. :(
How is citing simple factual numbers a cheap shot?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
implied vs literal
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Lisa is a gamer, and I expect her to respond like one, first. Especially to a group of gamers. While she's most likely at a Con for gamers...
It's funny, really.
Statement that's liked = "One of us!!"
Statement not liked = "How unprofessional!"
...or I could just be deliriously tired, as it's 2:50 am.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How is citing simple factual numbers a cheap shot?I guess I just miss the days when Paizo was more about adventures than rules.You are right. We just have two adventure paths (12 volumes), a 300+ page super dungeon, the next RPG Superstar module, and two or more PFS scenarios each month. By my count, thats at least 1,836 pages of adventures, compared to 732 pages of rules product. Certainly shows our lack of committment to adventures.
Lisa
Cheap shot, Lisa. And an especially disappointing one, coming as it did from you. :(
He didnt say "Paizo arent committed to adventures" he was expressing his preference for a focus on adventures over crunch. In fact, he implicitly acknowledged that Paizo should continue what they're doing.
I presume he's miffed at Lisa quoting the factual mis-statement (his suggestion Paizo are "more about rules" than adventures is not correct as Lisa demonstrated) rather than the context of the quote in question, which wasnt even about Paizo - it was to counter the assumption by early posters in this thread that any "anti-bloat" position is inherently irrational.
I thought we were getting some more product announcements yesterday so what happened?
I thought we were getting some more product announcements yesterday so what happened?This. Any more news?
Campaign Setting and Player Companion books for Numeria. Oh, and a novel set in that region. No massive surprise there, though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Act like a troll get treated like a troll. I thought it was a great reply full of facts to your complaintTroll? Really?
Obviously I"m not going to garner much sympathy here -- which Lisa surely knew when she basically called open season on me -- but I was in no way, shape, or form trolling. I expressed my opinion respectfully, and got a face-full of snark for it. In my opinion, that was uncalled for -- as is piling on now. Not that it is going to matter.
Have a nice night.
Paizo does more campaign setting and adventure material now than they did in the past.
However, campaign/adventure stuff only reaches a certain market. There are groups that don't use the Golarion setting. They don't use APs, modules, or any of that stuff. Their adventures and world are home-created.
At that point the only thing they're getting from Paizo is the crunch material which is only 3 hardcovers a year and one of those is always a book of stuff to kill (bestiary or npc guide). So, that's 2 books of new rules. A lot of those are subsystems that are only useful in certain situations or if you're setting up certain types of campaigns (kingdom building, mass combat, words of power, gladiator arena, etc).
All of that aside... Paizo is a business. Their job is to sell stuff and crunch always sells.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Umm Dude there were more than ten Base classes in the Core Rule Book. Add in the base classes from APG, UM, and UC and there are 19. So your first statement is explicitly false.It's crazy that Paizo is going to be adding 10 base classes. That's going to more than double the amount we already have!
I'm hoping that they add ten classes that are unique like the Alchemist. I'm afraid they are going in with the mindset "Let's make 10 hybrids of what already exists!"
I'm aware there are 11 core classes like the barbarian and wizard. I was stating that we have 8 "base" classes right now, like the magus and inquisitor. By adding 10 more base classes, we'll end up with 18... which is at least twice as much as 8.
Regardless, as many have said already, I trust Paizo to crank out some awesome classes. I just hope they don't try to make 10 hybrids.
The 11 core classes are also base classes.
Alrighty, my group's always distinguished the two groups as core and base. I stand corrected. My point is simply that adding 10 classes is a ton for a single book that isn't the core rulebook.
|
Would you prefer they spread them out 3 apiece to 3 or 4 other books?
Paizo groups like themed items in like themed books. Advanced Class Guide is for their new base classes, the same way Advanced Race Guide was for their new and updated races. They are putting all ten in this one so that they don't have to fit them into later books where they don't make as much sense.