[GenCon 2014 Announced] Advanced Class Guide


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Whelp, if you haven't heard (or didn't read my title), I'll be the one to spoil it for you.

Next year's GenCon release is called ADVANCED CLASS GUIDE.

What We Know:
--It has 10 new classes, which are hybrid classes stylized after the Magus.
--UPDATE: Playtest this Fall.
--War Priest (Cleric / Fighter)
--Slayer (Ranger / Rogue)
--Hunter (Druid / Ranger)
--Shaman (Oracle / Witch)

What We Can Guess:
--Probably 256 pages.
--If Core Rulebook is an example, there will likely be well over 200 pages of content not accounted for.
--Possibility of a Swashbuckler? (James is notably into the idea and mentioned before that it would have to happen as part of a book with a broad scope.)
--Psychic Magic? (Hints that it would use same system as Vanician Magic means that it might not need its own set of new rules. Would help possibility of Vuldra support.)

What We Don't Know:
--Support for the Core / Base classes?
--Archetypes?
--Modular Build-A-Class system a la Advanced Race Guide?
--Will the new classes have a new Iconic?

So, what's everyone hoping for out of this product?

Personally, I'm hoping we get some more archetypes for the classes that didn't see much love during the Ultimate cycle or that simply don't have a lot of choices in them. Namely Ninja (no archetypes), Cavalier/Samurai (virtually no choices and few archetypes), and Gunslinger (few archetypes, absolutely no customization in the class). Also really want that Swashbuckler ....

Liberty's Edge

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I like. I also really hope that it will include a Swashbuckler class. Preferably one with Full BAB.


Prestiege classes with great flavor AND that I can see myself actually playing. Please! Specialists would be great.

Contributor

I didn't even think about that, BigDT. I would actually be pretty annoyed if there were no Prestige Classes in a book called the "Advanced Class Guide."


Well they may struggle to make 10 new 3/4 BAB, 6th level casters.

I think we could use an arcane themed Full BAB / 4th level caster ARCANE class (we already have 2 divine ones in pally/ranger)

I am honestly clueless as to what different niches 10 new classes could bring.

Something BO9S would be awesome.
And Fighter's could take them as feats.

Contributor

Who says they're all going to be 3/4 BAB classes with a 6th level spell progression? I'm assuming that when they said, "Think Magus," they were referring to the concept of blending together the wizard and fighter together into something unique, not implying that they were going to replicate its formula ten times.

On Bo9S, go check out Dreamscarred Press's new Path of War series. Its in playtesting now and they're looking to upgrade Tome of Battle. That said, we're not going to see something like Book of Nine Swords in a book called "Advanced Class Guide."


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I'd like a artificer/tinker/engineer style class myself...

Kind of also wondering what niches there are left to really fill...besides the above the only thing that seems obvious is swashbuckler and psychic magic classes


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Agree with an arcane 4 level full BAB class. Bounty Hunter class, Ranger/inquisitor feel with arcane spells. Awesome.

Shadow Lodge

STR Ranger wrote:

Something BO9S would be awesome.

And Fighter's could take them as feats.

Unlikely, according to James Jacobs Bo9S is not very popular 'round Paizo parts.

This may be more up your alley if that's what you're looking for.

Contributor

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I wouldn't mind a Divine version of the Magus, personally. Druid / Fighter or Druid / Rogue into a shapeshifting themed class would be pretty awesome too.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Seriously? That is kind of surprising. Not that I mind, this is precisely what I want, I love new classes and they are my favorite way to add rules to the game. I am just a little surprised. I am super excited though and cant wait to get in on the playtests and see what these new classes are like. Probably the first rpg line product i am going to buy in hard copy in a while.

I guess we better gear up for a new round of rulesbloat arguments here on the forums. Either way, thank you paizo, I cant wait.

STR Ranger, you are aware dreamscared press has started developing a Bo9S book for pathfinder right? You might want to check that out. Not sure if paizo is gonna go that far out on a limb in terms of a subsystem (martial maneuvers).

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BigDTBone wrote:
Agree with an arcane 4 level full BAB class. Bounty Hunter class, Ranger/inquisitor feel with arcane spells. Awesome.

Personally, I think the Summoner should have been a 4-level arcane spellcasting class. Tone down that weird spell list. Or better yet, drop the entire concept and make a 4-level arcane spellcasting class.

Again, I don't think we're going to see anything "new" in this book, although a technology-focused class for the Numeria AP that is also debuting around that time would make a lot of sense ....


*faints...wakes up....faints again*

Contributor

Kolokotroni wrote:

Seriously? That is kind of surprising. Not that I mind, this is precisely what I want, I love new classes and they are my favorite way to add rules to the game. I am just a little surprised. I am super excited though and cant wait to get in on the playtests and see what these new classes are like. Probably the first rpg line product i am going to buy in hard copy in a while.

I guess we better gear up for a new round of rulesbloat arguments here on the forums. Either way, thank you paizo, I cant wait.

STR Ranger, you are aware dreamscared press has started developing a Bo9S book for pathfinder right? You might want to check that out. Not sure if paizo is gonna go that far out on a limb in terms of a subsystem (martial maneuvers).

I think Orthos thunked the nail into the coffin of the Bo9S from Paizo question. :)

I was pretty surprised about this too, but it makes a lot of sense if you think about it. The Pathfinder Strategy Guide is designed as sort of a beginner's guide to character building, so it makes sense to also release a veteran product.

It will be interesting to see what, exactly, separates an "Advanced Player's Guide" from an "Advanced Class Guide."


I'm gonna guess that this is the vehicle that they'll use to finally release a "monk 2.0" class update. We shall what we shall see...

DJF

Shadow Lodge

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Class bloat! 3.5 splats! Doom and gloom!

:)


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
I wouldn't mind a Divine version of the Magus, personally. Druid / Fighter or Druid / Rogue into a shapeshifting themed class would be pretty awesome too.

The possibilities are pretty interesting. I am just not sure how blends of that kind will fit into the philosophy of unique mechanical and thematic niches for each class. Something like a 6 level caster, 3/4 bab natural warrior to fit between the druid and ranger would be nice, but I cant imagine them just slapping wild shape on it and calling it done. I certainly hope it has some unique mechanics to go with it.

A divine magus would be really interesting, after all there are alot of neat touch spells in the divine lists. Personally I'd like to see a charisma based swashbuckly class, I think charisma is really under represented as a primary stat for straight martials since I generally avoid paladins due to some heavy baggage among the dms in my group.

Man its hard not to start all kinds of speculation. So who wants to carpool to gencon this weekend and shake jason until he spills more details?


TOZ wrote:

Class bloat! 3.5 splats! Doom and gloom!

:)

If this doesn't constitute class bloat, what on Earth would?

That said, I'm sure it will be a very successful product. Crunch sells. Personally, I'll scoop up the PDF and give it a read so I know what to expect in PFS, but I likely wouldn't use this in a home game.


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TOZ wrote:

Class bloat! 3.5 splats! Doom and gloom!

:)

NERDRAGE

Contributor

Dr. Johnny Fever wrote:

I'm gonna guess that this is the vehicle that they'll use to finally release a "monk 2.0" class update. We shall what we shall see...

DJF

I'm going to guess that you're off. The problem with "updating" anything in an RPG is that "updating" is usually synonymous with "replacing." As in "Here's a new monk, now never use the old one again."

Besides, standard monk works fine. It just has a higher system mastery curve than other classes do. Some classes are stronger than others without elbow grease. That's part of what makes the game interesting, and Pathfinder is a team sport after all.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Agree with an arcane 4 level full BAB class. Bounty Hunter class, Ranger/inquisitor feel with arcane spells. Awesome.

Personally, I think the Summoner should have been a 4-level arcane spellcasting class. Tone down that weird spell list. Or better yet, drop the entire concept and make a 4-level arcane spellcasting class.

Again, I don't think we're going to see anything "new" in this book, although a technology-focused class for the Numeria AP that is also debuting around that time would make a lot of sense ....

Wait...numeria AP? You sir are a cruel cruel man...How much of what I really really want but wasnt expecting for years are you going to throw at me in a few minutes....


Interesting. Here's hoping for an arcane Inquisitor, which might need different fluff but could be interesting to see the Judgement mechanics get spread to a new class. And another hope for more Gunslinger stuff, or at least a nice, tech-savvy class with a focus on advanced firearms and Numerian robots?

Shadow Lodge

Kolokotroni wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Agree with an arcane 4 level full BAB class. Bounty Hunter class, Ranger/inquisitor feel with arcane spells. Awesome.

Personally, I think the Summoner should have been a 4-level arcane spellcasting class. Tone down that weird spell list. Or better yet, drop the entire concept and make a 4-level arcane spellcasting class.

Again, I don't think we're going to see anything "new" in this book, although a technology-focused class for the Numeria AP that is also debuting around that time would make a lot of sense ....

Wait...numeria AP? You sir are a cruel cruel man...How much of what I really really want but wasnt expecting for years are you going to throw at me in a few minutes....

Enjoy


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ok well I love the idea of a Numeria based AP unfortunaly the people I play with would probably be a little against the idea...so my excitment for that books is a little sudueled....but this.

I want to see the swashbuckler class defintly and psychic magic....though those are not really hybrid style of classes(though I guess swashbuckler could be a hybrid of rogue and fighter or cavalier).

I am just happy to get new options.


I hope this doesn't mean that NPC Codex sold too poorly to spawn a sequel. Or did that share the Bestiary "slot?"

Contributor

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Kolokotroni wrote:
A divine magus would be really interesting, after all there are alot of neat touch spells in the divine lists. Personally I'd like to see a charisma based swashbuckly class, I think charisma is really under represented as a primary stat for straight martials since I generally avoid paladins due to some heavy baggage among the dms in my group.

TIME TO NEEDLESSLY PROMOTE MY OWN INGENUITY!

I play a multiclass kitsune who is entirely Charisma-focused. 2 Levels of Samurai give me Dazzling Display for free (and +2 morale to hit anyone suffering from a fear effect), 5 levels of Lore Warden given me a crazy number of feats, plus it trades away Fighter armor proficiency (don't need it b/e of Samurai) for extra skill points and Combat Expertise as a bonus feat. 1 level of Thug gives me Frightening, which adds an extra round to my demoralize attempts. I feint, I demoralize, and then I go to town with debuffs like Dirty Tricks and Trip. Between bonuses to hit and penalties to my enemy's AC, I'm usually at a +8 to my attack rolls and +6 to those of my allies. It is quite beautiful.

Quote:
Man its hard not to start all kinds of speculation. So who wants to carpool to gencon this weekend and shake jason until he spills more details?

But ... but I made this thread to start speculations. And fish for ideas for the developers depending on how far along in production they are .... D:


RogueMortal wrote:
...a nice, tech-savvy class with a focus on advanced firearms and Numerian robots?

Kind like an artificer? That -- unlike, say hunter -- is a conceptual niche that has yet to be filled in Pathfinder.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
John Kretzer wrote:

Ok well I love the idea of a Numeria based AP unfortunaly the people I play with would probably be a little against the idea...so my excitment for that books is a little sudueled....but this.

I want to see the swashbuckler class defintly and psychic magic....though those are not really hybrid style of classes(though I guess swashbuckler could be a hybrid of rogue and fighter or cavalier).

I am just happy to get new options.

Maybe, but a numeria AP is going to mean material to support it. So even if your group doesnt want to run the AP itself, you know there is going to be lots of material in the other lines that will let you bring numeria into whatever campaign you are playing...man, I have been kind of meh on the announcements for a while, ultimate campaign, mythic, another bestiary...meh, but 10 new classes and a numeria campaign...I am trying very hard not to make a scene at the moment...

Contributor

JASON BULMAHN ANNOUNCES ON HIS FACEBOOK THAT ONE OF THE CLASSES IS CALLED THE SHAMAN!

Guessing either a Druid mashup with a 6th level spellcasting class (Bard? Inquisitor?) but that wasn't revealed by Mr. Bulmahn.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bugleyman wrote:
I hope this doesn't mean that NPC Codex sold too poorly to spawn a sequel. Or did that share the Bestiary "slot?"

No that was in the Bestiary slot.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just me or would this be a good place to put in a few psionic classes?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
A divine magus would be really interesting, after all there are alot of neat touch spells in the divine lists. Personally I'd like to see a charisma based swashbuckly class, I think charisma is really under represented as a primary stat for straight martials since I generally avoid paladins due to some heavy baggage among the dms in my group.

TIME TO NEEDLESSLY PROMOTE MY OWN INGENUITY!

I play a multiclass kitsune who is entirely Charisma-focused. 2 Levels of Samurai give me Dazzling Display for free (and +2 morale to hit anyone suffering from a fear effect), 5 levels of Lore Warden given me a crazy number of feats, plus it trades away Fighter armor proficiency (don't need it b/e of Samurai) for extra skill points and Combat Expertise as a bonus feat. 1 level of Thug gives me Frightening, which adds an extra round to my demoralize attempts. I feint, I demoralize, and then I go to town with debuffs like Dirty Tricks and Trip. Between bonuses to hit and penalties to my enemy's AC, I'm usually at a +8 to my attack rolls and +6 to those of my allies. It is quite beautiful.

Yea, I know it can be done. But its nice when its baked into the class, and not the result of me pulling stuff from all over the game.

Quote:

Quote:
Man its hard not to start all kinds of speculation. So who wants to carpool to gencon this weekend and shake jason until he spills more details?
But ... but I made this thread to start speculations. And fish for ideas for the developers depending on how far along in production they are .... D:

Totally. I totally volunteer to be their practice obnoxious fan so they can get started with their responses to the common complaints on the message boards when they release the playtest. I'm really good at 'pretending' to do that. I swear!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
bugleyman wrote:
I hope this doesn't mean that NPC Codex sold too poorly to spawn a sequel. Or did that share the Bestiary "slot?"

NPC Codex was in the Bestiary Slot, so probably won't be announced until around the holidays, if not next year.

Alexander - tweets indicate the Shaman is Witch/Oracle

Jason also confirms on Facebook that there will be a playtest in Autumn.

Contributor

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Enlight_Bystand wrote:
Alexander - tweets indicate the Shaman is Witch/Oracle

That is the most beautiful marriage of classes ever.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Enlight_Bystand wrote:
Alexander - tweets indicate the Shaman is Witch/Oracle
That is the most beautiful marriage of classes ever.

I may be more excited about this product than any other since Aug 08.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Enlight_Bystand wrote:
Alexander - tweets indicate the Shaman is Witch/Oracle
That is the most beautiful marriage of classes ever.

Well that sounds interesting...odd but interesting...not sure why the witch and oracle NEED a mashup, but I'm certainly willing to see it play out before I make the call.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well atleast this gives me something to do instead of endlessly checking my e-mail to see if a certain notification has come or not.

Witch + Oracle to make a Shaman...I am not thinking this is something IU have needed...but I am willing to wait to see how they do it.

Dark Archive

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Ten new classes? That sounds excessive, I've hoped that we would avoid the class overload of 3.5.

Don't we already have some of these classes already?

War Priest, a cleric fighter hybrid, isn't that what the Paladin is? Can we at least call it a Crusader or something, War Priest sounds so bland.

And Slayer, isn't that an Assassin? Then the Hunter, a Druid/Ranger hybrid? Isn't the Ranger already a Fighter/Druid hybrid? What do we get? Less fighting skill and better spellcasting, or more focus on the animal companion? And again with the bland names...

This seems excessive, like they are trying to fill a niche that doesn't need filling.

I hope more promising information will be revealed.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
bugleyman wrote:
TOZ wrote:

Class bloat! 3.5 splats! Doom and gloom!

:)

If this doesn't constitute class bloat, what on Earth would?

That said, I'm sure it will be a very successful product. Crunch sells. Personally, I'll scoop up the PDF and give it a read so I know what to expect in PFS, but I likely wouldn't use this in a home game.

Haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure they haven't breached the 3.5 class total yet.

I'll give it a look and allow classes on a case-by-case basis myself. I'm more curious how much will be PFS legal.

Contributor

Crusader is a Cleric archetype. That's probably why they didn't pick it.

Assassin has a lot of political / moral baggage behind it. Slayer just means you kill stuff. You're not really an assassin if you're a giant slayer, for example. I'm expecting a Rogue with full BAB, but can only sneak attack favored enemies.

Didn't say Fighter Druid, said Ranger / Druid. That one seems a bit odd to me too, though.

New options and new ways to build characters is never excessive as long as everything keeps roughly the same level of power. That's exactly what the 3.5 class overload was; 3.5 classes quickly invalidated one another. I.E. why ever be a Fighter when you could be a Warblade?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now I have a question...is it ONLY 10 new classes...or are there only 10 hybrid classes + orginal classes?

Sovereign Court Contributor

:)


Atrocious wrote:

Ten new classes? That sounds excessive, I've hoped that we would avoid the class overload of 3.5.

Don't we already have some of these classes already?

War Priest, a cleric fighter hybrid, isn't that what the Paladin is? Can we at least call it a Crusader or something, War Priest sounds so bland.

And Slayer, isn't that an Assassin? Then the Hunter, a Druid/Ranger hybrid? Isn't the Ranger already a Fighter/Druid hybrid? What do we get? Less fighting skill and better spellcasting, or more focus on the animal companion? And again with the bland names...

This seems excessive, like they are trying to fill a niche that doesn't need filling.

I hope more promising information will be revealed.

From what little we know, this product feels to me like a symptom of the mid-edition doldrums. However, it could be a great opportunity for Paizo to try out new takes on multi-classing/hybridization mechanics that could eventually become part of the core in a future edition. That's really a nut that anyone has yet to crack.

Shadow Lodge

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Alexander Augunas wrote:
That's exactly what the 3.5 class overload was; 3.5 classes quickly invalidated one another. I.E. why ever be a Fighter when you could be a Warblade?

That was more a problem of the question 'Why ever be a Fighter?' being answered by "Don't."


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:

Crusader is a Cleric archetype. That's probably why they didn't pick it.

Assassin has a lot of political / moral baggage behind it. Slayer just means you kill stuff. You're not really an assassin if you're a giant slayer, for example. I'm expecting a Rogue with full BAB, but can only sneak attack favored enemies.

Didn't say Fighter Druid, said Ranger / Druid. That one seems a bit odd to me too, though.

New options and new ways to build characters is never excessive as long as everything keeps roughly the same level of power. That's exactly what the 3.5 class overload was; 3.5 classes quickly invalidated one another. I.E. why ever be a Fighter when you could be a Warblade?

I agree with you. But I expect the people that were upset that the ninja and samurai exist will be even more furious now. I expect to see alot of 'rules bloat' shouting over the next year or so.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:

Crusader is a Cleric archetype. That's probably why they didn't pick it.

Assassin has a lot of political / moral baggage behind it. Slayer just means you kill stuff. You're not really an assassin if you're a giant slayer, for example. I'm expecting a Rogue with full BAB, but can only sneak attack favored enemies.

Didn't say Fighter Druid, said Ranger / Druid. That one seems a bit odd to me too, though.

New options and new ways to build characters is never excessive as long as everything keeps roughly the same level of power. That's exactly what the 3.5 class overload was; 3.5 classes quickly invalidated one another. I.E. why ever be a Fighter when you could be a Warblade?

Slayer was described as such:

"Kristine Chester ‏@12thKnight 45s Also Slayer (Rogue/Ranger) "Their job is to murder. Favored enemy and sneak attack in a blood filled cyclone." #GenCon"

and Atrocious' point was that the ranger was a Druid/Fighter hybrid, so the Hunter is a druid/fighter/druid hybrid


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure they haven't breached the 3.5 class total yet.

Seriously? I don't remember 3.5 having nearly this many base classes. Then again, I didn't buy most of the later 3.5 stuff.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'm more curious how much will be PFS legal.

My guess is the vast majority of it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

for that matter you can play a straight up cleric as a pretty competent fighting character. I suppose an alignment neutral version would be nice (if only because it would be nice to have LE "paladins", although I feel that could be accomplished with archetypes)

Same thing with Hunter...at least based on name, I would have thought Rangers already fulfill that niche?

And a Assassin class would be cool...I would rather see Slayer renamed that to be honest, because I think slayer sounds lame unless it is applied to blonde high school vampire fighting women.

Shaman is interesting...


Kolokotroni wrote:
I agree with you. But I expect the people that were upset that the ninja and samurai exist will be even more furious now. I expect to see alot of 'rules bloat' shouting over the next year or so.

I'm asking this question in earnest: Do you think it is possible to express that opinion without fury or shouting?

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