Firstly, the intro section to Mythic Feats clearly states that the only way to gain mythic feats is from mythic tiers, not bonus feats, normal feats, or feats from any other source.
Ah, OK, you're right. I was expecting to find a restriction like this in the description of the mythic type for feats, not in the introduction above that. In this case there is no need to add types like combat here.
I think the comparison of equating one tier to two levels wasn't made as a reference to the equivalent power. The book states that roughly, the average mythic game should never have players with more tiers than half their level. In fact it recommends that if they have less tiers than this benchmark, you speed up the process until they do, and then slow it down. Otherwise I agree with you, tiers are far more potent than levels.
The rules disagree:
Having mythic tiers changes the effective level of the character for the purposes of determining what threats they can face and what treasures they should earn. Likewise, having mythic tiers or ranks changes the effective CR of the foes heroes must contend with.
To adjust a character’s level, add half his tier (minimum 1) to his total character level. So a 10th-level/5th-tier character is effectively a 12th-level character for challenge and reward purposes, and a 20th-level/10th-tier character is effectively a 25th-level character for those purposes.
To adjust a foe’s CR, add half its tier or rank (minimum 1) to its CR. So a 2nd-rank minotaur is effectively a CR 6 monster, while a 6th-tier champion pit fiend would be CR 23. For the monsters presented in Chapter 6, this calculation has already been made.
Emphasis mine.
Also, this was one of the changes that came about from the playtest. While, in theory, it may look like each Tier is potent enough to count as an entire level (which is how it was positioned in the playtest), once the rules were actually tested it was found that (other than Tier 1) each Tier was only about half as powerful as a full level. Especially at higher levels.
I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.
Ah, very good point. I hadn't considered that. That makes more sense now. Thanks!
I'm guessing its because people think it is PF's version of epic and not without good reason, because it kinda is... just not in that way.
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I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.
Is that accurate? I assumed when it said "To adjust a character’s level, add half his tier (minimum 1) to his total character level. So a 10th-level/5th-tier character is effectively a 12th-level character for challenge and reward purposes, and a 20th-level/10th-tier character is effectively a 25th-level character for those purposes " that was accounting for WBL, since WBL is, you know, a reward.
Yeah, I believe Mythic is supposed to grant WBL as otherwise a freshly created character does have far less money than someone who reached that "level" by beating CR-appropriate challenges (which drop money for the increased level).
Yeah, RAW this would imply that you would received "rewards" as a 12th level character in that scenario.
I'm not sure how it can be read in any other way than it is written down in the book. You get four additional spell slots at first level, but not any new spells known on your list. If you take it again, you gain four second spell slots and so on.
"Choose one of your divine spellcasting classes. You gain four bonus 1st-level divine spells slots for that class (like the bonus spells gained from a high ability score)."
I'm not sure what the confusion is. If you were say a 6th level Oracle, 3rd mythic tier Hierophant, you would normally have 6 1st level spells a day. Taking Divine Potency would make you have 10 1st level spells a day. 6+4=10.
Technically, that can't be done since Wild Arcana takes a swift action to activate. You cant even combine it with quickened spells.
Hi! On another topic I made someone posted that there might be a Mythic feat which increases the critical multiplier, like x2 to x3. Please could you tell me the name and details of this feat? :)
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".
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Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".
I belive there are some effects, that can increase the multiplier of a weapon, like the weapon mastery ability of a level 20 fighter.
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Is that accurate? I assumed when it said "To adjust a character’s level, add half his tier (minimum 1) to his total character level. So a 10th-level/5th-tier character is effectively a 12th-level character for challenge and reward purposes, and a 20th-level/10th-tier character is effectively a 25th-level character for those purposes " that was accounting for WBL, since WBL is, you know, a reward.I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.
I haven't done the math, but the devs mentioned that a character with mythic tiers levels far quicker than a character without. Since that results in fewer encounters per level, this could the reason mythic characters only gain wealth based on their level.
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".
Ah perfect, thank you very much. I'm guessing there's a lot of insane prerequisites for this?
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".Ah perfect, thank you very much. I'm guessing there's a lot of insane prerequisites for this?
Yep. Completely mental:
Improved Critical (Mythic)
Your critical strikes with your chosen weapon are deadlier than most.
Prerequisite: Improved Critical, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: Your critical multiplier with your chosen weapon is increased by 1 (to a maximum of ×6).
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different non-mythic Improved Critical feat.
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".Ah perfect, thank you very much. I'm guessing there's a lot of insane prerequisites for this?Yep. Completely mental:
Improved Critical (Mythic)
Your critical strikes with your chosen weapon are deadlier than most.
Prerequisite: Improved Critical, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: Your critical multiplier with your chosen weapon is increased by 1 (to a maximum of ×6).
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different non-mythic Improved Critical feat.
Wow, you don't even need to be a Mythic class?
Wow, you don't even need to be a Mythic class?You do need to be mythic. That's what the "(mythic)" feat descriptor means.
Ooh, right, Thank you. Just one level though, right? :)
Oh. How do you become "mythic" then? I thought "Hierophant" and "Champion" etc were mythic classes and you went into them the same way as Prestige.
So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?
I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?
I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes. The only sticky wicket is that Mythic Feats can only be taken as Mythic rewards, either by taking it as one of your Bonus Mythic Feats (even tier) or by spending a Universal Path Ability (every tier) to get an extra Mythic Feat.
Yeah, the "only" part is completely dependent on your GM even wanting to make his campaign mythic. Which is not for everyone.
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Yeah, the "only" part is completely dependent on your GM even wanting to make his campaign mythic. Which is not for everyone.Uh, you could say that about virtually every other option in the game. Prestige classes are dependent on the GM allowing them, which most don't, critical focus is dependent on not-playing-E6, which is not for everyone, learning Haste is dependent on the GM allowing one of the most powerful classes in the game, which is not for everyone...
Calm down there Ben. You're kind of swinging wildly out of proportion what Magnus was saying. Yes, eventually everything boils down to GM approval, but Mythic isn't something a player should just be able to say "Hey gm, is it okay if I just have a mythic tier?". The way the system is built is designed around the entirety of the campaign taking on a whole new level of intensity and well... epic. If a GM has any degree of competency, he shouldn't just be letting players HAVE mythic tiers for no reason other than they asked. Not only does this totally defeat the purpose and design intent behind mythic, but it would be extremely unfair to other players who didn't bother to ask.
What Magnus was saying is that a "Mythic Campaign" is not for everyone, because it requires a great deal more effort from the GM, and it wildly swings the power balance if you don't know how to handle it appropriately. You could say this would be on par with saying some GMs are suited for only running modules or APs, while others are far more comfortable inventing entire homebrew campaigns. Players shouldn't be arbitrarily assigned mythic ranks, because the whole design purpose of Mythic is to enhance the totality of the campaign, not just one specific player.
Also: I don't know of any GM's that don't allow prestige classes. I also know that E6 isn't for everyone, because a lot of people like ascending past level 6, and As far as playing a Wizard is concerned, anyone can do it, it just changes how powerful you are based on your competency.
TL;DR: cool your jets hotshot, no need to overreact.
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I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.
Eating lots of jelly could increase your WBL (badoom ching!)
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Yeah, not using E6 (or E-anything for that matter, other than E20) and allowing Classes that can cast Haste are Core considerations of standard gameplay. Those are false comparisons to Mythic and what Magnuskn was conveying.
Mythic is not a Core consideration and thus relies entirely on the GM deciding to plug it into the game. Much like deciding to use Words of Power from Ultimate Magic, or the downtime system from Ultimate Campaign, or Hero Points from the APG.
Precisely TBK, that's what I'm saying. The things Ben was referencing are something that a GM could inherently change about the core rules at his own discretion. Mythic as it stands is not necessarily "core" but something to be added on, not taken away. Players don't have a "right" of any sort to Mythic, and as such if a GM chooses not to use it, nothing was taken from the system, he simply chose not to add it. Whereas disallowing prestige classes, enforcing E6, or not letting someone play Wizard is something the GM is choosing to "take away" from core.
Or by using the Ascension spell to temporarily make the party Mythic. Although even then, the party would need to already possess an artifact of some description to serve as the focus component for the spell, and artifacts are GM-permission, by and large (Alchemist 20th as the exception).Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes.So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?
I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
This falls back on the "DM allows" argument, both for the artifact focus, and simply for the use of the spell. If the DM doesn't want to let you use Mythic Tiers, I highly doubt he'd let any of your characters learn/use the spell.
Well I'll discuss it with my GM, and if he doesn't want to make it Mythic then perhaps we can find another way to increase dat multiplier!
Anyhoo, thanks to everybody who posted to help me, you've been wonderful and I know a hell of a lot more then when I first posted! Cheers!
Very true, minus the Alchemist I mentioned. Technically nothing should be stopping a Wizard or the like from picking Ascension as a spell on level-up besides the GM saying no. By the time you're at 20th level, there's not much else to do besides go Mythic if the players/GM want to keep on advancing.This falls back on the "DM allows" argument, both for the artifact focus, and simply for the use of the spell. If the DM doesn't want to let you use Mythic Tiers, I highly doubt he'd let any of your characters learn/use the spell.Or by using the Ascension spell to temporarily make the party Mythic. Although even then, the party would need to already possess an artifact of some description to serve as the focus component for the spell, and artifacts are GM-permission, by and large (Alchemist 20th as the exception).Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes.So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?
I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
Also very true. I'm simply saying if the DM is dead-set against mythic tiers, I doubt he'd let you cast it "just cause".