Mythic Adventures is out - Any questions?


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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chemlak wrote:
Firstly, the intro section to Mythic Feats clearly states that the only way to gain mythic feats is from mythic tiers, not bonus feats, normal feats, or feats from any other source.

Ah, OK, you're right. I was expecting to find a restriction like this in the description of the mythic type for feats, not in the introduction above that. In this case there is no need to add types like combat here.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I think the comparison of equating one tier to two levels wasn't made as a reference to the equivalent power. The book states that roughly, the average mythic game should never have players with more tiers than half their level. In fact it recommends that if they have less tiers than this benchmark, you speed up the process until they do, and then slow it down. Otherwise I agree with you, tiers are far more potent than levels.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The rules disagree:

Adjusting CR and Level sidebar wrote:

Having mythic tiers changes the effective level of the character for the purposes of determining what threats they can face and what treasures they should earn. Likewise, having mythic tiers or ranks changes the effective CR of the foes heroes must contend with.

To adjust a character’s level, add half his tier (minimum 1) to his total character level. So a 10th-level/5th-tier character is effectively a 12th-level character for challenge and reward purposes, and a 20th-level/10th-tier character is effectively a 25th-level character for those purposes.
To adjust a foe’s CR, add half its tier or rank (minimum 1) to its CR. So a 2nd-rank minotaur is effectively a CR 6 monster, while a 6th-tier champion pit fiend would be CR 23. For the monsters presented in Chapter 6, this calculation has already been made.

Emphasis mine.

Dark Archive

I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.


CrackedOzy wrote:
I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.

You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.


Also, this was one of the changes that came about from the playtest. While, in theory, it may look like each Tier is potent enough to count as an entire level (which is how it was positioned in the playtest), once the rules were actually tested it was found that (other than Tier 1) each Tier was only about half as powerful as a full level. Especially at higher levels.


137ben wrote:
CrackedOzy wrote:
I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.
You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.

Ah, very good point. I hadn't considered that. That makes more sense now. Thanks!

Dark Archive

Good catch! Yeah, that seems fair then.


How would one go about building a character in the style of Hercules capable of completing the 12 Labours of Hercules. Is it possible for a non-caster to do these without an over-reliance on spellcasting or custom magical items?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Am I reading it wrong or to have a Mythic characters, you don't need to be 20th level?

Shadow Lodge

That is correct. You can start gaining mythic tiers at level 1.


I'm sorta confused as to where anyone even got the idea that you might need to be level 20 to use mythic *confused face*.


I'm guessing its because people think it is PF's version of epic and not without good reason, because it kinda is... just not in that way.

Paizo Employee Senior Designer

137ben wrote:
CrackedOzy wrote:
I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.
You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.

Is that accurate? I assumed when it said "To adjust a character’s level, add half his tier (minimum 1) to his total character level. So a 10th-level/5th-tier character is effectively a 12th-level character for challenge and reward purposes, and a 20th-level/10th-tier character is effectively a 25th-level character for those purposes " that was accounting for WBL, since WBL is, you know, a reward.


I don't really see how it is at all...
it IS sort of like Paizo's version of deities and demigods--give "legendary" creatures a separate "rank", independent of level, that gives you unique powers. The difference being that mythic characters are actually playable--3.0 gods had abilities that were far to vague to use.

It's also sort of like Paizo's version of E6:
E6 is a way of saying "we don't want to introduce any more powerful magic, but we want to keep advancing slowly, gaining other less powerful abilities".
If you wanted to, instead of gaining mythic tiers as you level, you could halt leveling at <insert your favorite level>, and keep advancing through mythic tiers. It would have the same E6 effect of stopping you from getting much more powerful abilities, but still giving a slow advancement after whatever level you wanted to stop at.


Yeah, I believe Mythic is supposed to grant WBL as otherwise a freshly created character does have far less money than someone who reached that "level" by beating CR-appropriate challenges (which drop money for the increased level).


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Yeah, RAW this would imply that you would received "rewards" as a 12th level character in that scenario.


I have a question about how the Hierophant 3rd tier ability Divine Potency.
How does it affect spontaneous spellcasters like an Oracle?

I feel the text wasn't explicit enough about that and am wondering what the general consensus is.


I'm not sure how it can be read in any other way than it is written down in the book. You get four additional spell slots at first level, but not any new spells known on your list. If you take it again, you gain four second spell slots and so on.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

"Choose one of your divine spellcasting classes. You gain four bonus 1st-level divine spells slots for that class (like the bonus spells gained from a high ability score)."

I'm not sure what the confusion is. If you were say a 6th level Oracle, 3rd mythic tier Hierophant, you would normally have 6 1st level spells a day. Taking Divine Potency would make you have 10 1st level spells a day. 6+4=10.


Thanks for clearing that up for me. I thought that was how it worked but I wasn't sure.


coupled arcana + wild arcana with a conjuration specialist wizard with the teleportation ability (ie dimensional steps) and dimensional agility,

My understanding of it would be something like this.

Action economy too the extreme...This is why we can't cast a spell using amazing initiative.(though we could by raw due too coupled arcana)

swift action teleport (shift) free action wild arcana a quickened spell. 1 mythic point

Standard action Dimensional steps, free action another wild arcana standard or faster...1 mythic point

amazing initiative for another standard action dimensional steps again free action wild arcana. 2 mythic points.

So in one round a wizard conjuration specialist could make 3 teleports (via shift/dimensional steps+ dimensional agility) moving like nightcrawler any increment of a 5+ foot step ...not counting being able too take a movement action...(insert appropriate movement cast here)

Cast 3 spells, 1 quickened, and 2 standard
for a grand total of 4 mythic points

(btw I am a level 11 wizard tier 4 archmage.)

doing this I believe would cast 3 spells, and teleport 3 times in a round without even using a spell memorized.

This does not take into account casting mythic spells, like haste, fireball and more...

Am I correct in my thoughts on this?


Technically, that can't be done since Wild Arcana takes a swift action to activate. You cant even combine it with quickened spells.


Hi! On another topic I made someone posted that there might be a Mythic feat which increases the critical multiplier, like x2 to x3. Please could you tell me the name and details of this feat? :)


Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".

Silver Crusade

magnuskn wrote:
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".

I belive there are some effects, that can increase the multiplier of a weapon, like the weapon mastery ability of a level 20 fighter.

Silver Crusade

Ssalarn wrote:
137ben wrote:
CrackedOzy wrote:
I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.
You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.
Is that accurate? I assumed when it said "To adjust a character’s level, add half his tier (minimum 1) to his total character level. So a 10th-level/5th-tier character is effectively a 12th-level character for challenge and reward purposes, and a 20th-level/10th-tier character is effectively a 25th-level character for those purposes " that was accounting for WBL, since WBL is, you know, a reward.

I haven't done the math, but the devs mentioned that a character with mythic tiers levels far quicker than a character without. Since that results in fewer encounters per level, this could the reason mythic characters only gain wealth based on their level.


magnuskn wrote:
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".

Ah perfect, thank you very much. I'm guessing there's a lot of insane prerequisites for this?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
toxicpie wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".
Ah perfect, thank you very much. I'm guessing there's a lot of insane prerequisites for this?

Yep. Completely mental:

Quote:

Improved Critical (Mythic)

Your critical strikes with your chosen weapon are deadlier than most.
Prerequisite: Improved Critical, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: Your critical multiplier with your chosen weapon is increased by 1 (to a maximum of ×6).
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different non-mythic Improved Critical feat.


Chemlak wrote:
toxicpie wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Unsurprisingly, this is Mythic Improved Critical, which simply ups your critical modifier by one with your chosen weapon, to a maximum of x6. Not that I would know of any x5 weapon, but maybe they mean "even with lances and stuff you can't get any higher".
Ah perfect, thank you very much. I'm guessing there's a lot of insane prerequisites for this?

Yep. Completely mental:

Quote:

Improved Critical (Mythic)

Your critical strikes with your chosen weapon are deadlier than most.
Prerequisite: Improved Critical, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: Your critical multiplier with your chosen weapon is increased by 1 (to a maximum of ×6).
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different non-mythic Improved Critical feat.

Wow, you don't even need to be a Mythic class?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

toxicpie wrote:
Wow, you don't even need to be a Mythic class?

You do need to be mythic. That's what the "(mythic)" feat descriptor means.


Epic Meepo wrote:
toxicpie wrote:
Wow, you don't even need to be a Mythic class?
You do need to be mythic. That's what the "(mythic)" feat descriptor means.

Ooh, right, Thank you. Just one level though, right? :)


toxicpie wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:
toxicpie wrote:
Wow, you don't even need to be a Mythic class?
You do need to be mythic. That's what the "(mythic)" feat descriptor means.
Ooh, right, Thank you. Just one level though, right? :)

You don't need to be a mythic class because there is no such thing as a "mythic class". There is also no such thing as a "mythic level".


Oh. How do you become "mythic" then? I thought "Hierophant" and "Champion" etc were mythic classes and you went into them the same way as Prestige.


No. It's explained in chapter 1 of MA.
You have a Mythic Tier (a number between 0 and 10). You have a Class Level (a number between 1 and 20, unless epic levels are in play). The two numbers are entirely unrelated. A "mythic character" is someone with at least 1 mythic tier. That has absolutely no effect whatsoever on class levels.

Mythic Tiers give you abilities which depend on your "mythic path." Hierophant and Champion are both mythic paths. You do not have a choice between taking mythic tiers in your path or taking "extra" levels in a class--mythic paths are in addition to, and entirely independent of, classes.
Prestige classes are entirely different--levels in a prestige class actually replace levels in a base class, and increase your total character level. Mythic tiers are completely separate.


So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?
I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.


toxicpie wrote:

So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?

I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.

Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes. The only sticky wicket is that Mythic Feats can only be taken as Mythic rewards, either by taking it as one of your Bonus Mythic Feats (even tier) or by spending a Universal Path Ability (every tier) to get an extra Mythic Feat.


Yeah, the "only" part is completely dependent on your GM even wanting to make his campaign mythic. Which is not for everyone.


magnuskn wrote:
Yeah, the "only" part is completely dependent on your GM even wanting to make his campaign mythic. Which is not for everyone.

Uh, you could say that about virtually every other option in the game. Prestige classes are dependent on the GM allowing them, which most don't, critical focus is dependent on not-playing-E6, which is not for everyone, learning Haste is dependent on the GM allowing one of the most powerful classes in the game, which is not for everyone...


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Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
137ben wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Yeah, the "only" part is completely dependent on your GM even wanting to make his campaign mythic. Which is not for everyone.

Uh, you could say that about virtually every other option in the game. Prestige classes are dependent on the GM allowing them, which most don't, critical focus is dependent on not-playing-E6, which is not for everyone, learning Haste is dependent on the GM allowing one of the most powerful classes in the game, which is not for everyone...

Calm down there Ben. You're kind of swinging wildly out of proportion what Magnus was saying. Yes, eventually everything boils down to GM approval, but Mythic isn't something a player should just be able to say "Hey gm, is it okay if I just have a mythic tier?". The way the system is built is designed around the entirety of the campaign taking on a whole new level of intensity and well... epic. If a GM has any degree of competency, he shouldn't just be letting players HAVE mythic tiers for no reason other than they asked. Not only does this totally defeat the purpose and design intent behind mythic, but it would be extremely unfair to other players who didn't bother to ask.

What Magnus was saying is that a "Mythic Campaign" is not for everyone, because it requires a great deal more effort from the GM, and it wildly swings the power balance if you don't know how to handle it appropriately. You could say this would be on par with saying some GMs are suited for only running modules or APs, while others are far more comfortable inventing entire homebrew campaigns. Players shouldn't be arbitrarily assigned mythic ranks, because the whole design purpose of Mythic is to enhance the totality of the campaign, not just one specific player.

Also: I don't know of any GM's that don't allow prestige classes. I also know that E6 isn't for everyone, because a lot of people like ascending past level 6, and As far as playing a Wizard is concerned, anyone can do it, it just changes how powerful you are based on your competency.

TL;DR: cool your jets hotshot, no need to overreact.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
137ben wrote:
CrackedOzy wrote:
I saw that and thought it a bit strange, but you have to take into account that Tiers don't grant BAB, Saves or HD. Idk, that I agree that they are only 1/2 as potent, but they do seem less than 1/1.
You're missing the FAR more powerful and important thing that levels grant you: WBL. mythic tiers do not increase your WBL.

Eating lots of jelly could increase your WBL (badoom ching!)


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Yeah, not using E6 (or E-anything for that matter, other than E20) and allowing Classes that can cast Haste are Core considerations of standard gameplay. Those are false comparisons to Mythic and what Magnuskn was conveying.

Mythic is not a Core consideration and thus relies entirely on the GM deciding to plug it into the game. Much like deciding to use Words of Power from Ultimate Magic, or the downtime system from Ultimate Campaign, or Hero Points from the APG.


GhanjRho wrote:
toxicpie wrote:

So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?

I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes.

Or by using the Ascension spell to temporarily make the party Mythic. Although even then, the party would need to already possess an artifact of some description to serve as the focus component for the spell, and artifacts are GM-permission, by and large (Alchemist 20th as the exception).


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Precisely TBK, that's what I'm saying. The things Ben was referencing are something that a GM could inherently change about the core rules at his own discretion. Mythic as it stands is not necessarily "core" but something to be added on, not taken away. Players don't have a "right" of any sort to Mythic, and as such if a GM chooses not to use it, nothing was taken from the system, he simply chose not to add it. Whereas disallowing prestige classes, enforcing E6, or not letting someone play Wizard is something the GM is choosing to "take away" from core.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Alleran wrote:
GhanjRho wrote:
toxicpie wrote:

So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?

I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes.
Or by using the Ascension spell to temporarily make the party Mythic. Although even then, the party would need to already possess an artifact of some description to serve as the focus component for the spell, and artifacts are GM-permission, by and large (Alchemist 20th as the exception).

This falls back on the "DM allows" argument, both for the artifact focus, and simply for the use of the spell. If the DM doesn't want to let you use Mythic Tiers, I highly doubt he'd let any of your characters learn/use the spell.


Well I'll discuss it with my GM, and if he doesn't want to make it Mythic then perhaps we can find another way to increase dat multiplier!
Anyhoo, thanks to everybody who posted to help me, you've been wonderful and I know a hell of a lot more then when I first posted! Cheers!


FlySkyHigh wrote:
Alleran wrote:
GhanjRho wrote:
toxicpie wrote:

So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?

I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes.
Or by using the Ascension spell to temporarily make the party Mythic. Although even then, the party would need to already possess an artifact of some description to serve as the focus component for the spell, and artifacts are GM-permission, by and large (Alchemist 20th as the exception).
This falls back on the "DM allows" argument, both for the artifact focus, and simply for the use of the spell. If the DM doesn't want to let you use Mythic Tiers, I highly doubt he'd let any of your characters learn/use the spell.

Very true, minus the Alchemist I mentioned. Technically nothing should be stopping a Wizard or the like from picking Ascension as a spell on level-up besides the GM saying no. By the time you're at 20th level, there's not much else to do besides go Mythic if the players/GM want to keep on advancing.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Alleran wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Alleran wrote:
GhanjRho wrote:
toxicpie wrote:

So to get Improved Critical (Mythic), all I have to do (with GM approval) is choose a path (in my case Heirophant) and become 1st Tier "free of charge"? Then all I have to do is meet those two prerequisites?

I do apologise, I'm so slow at this and you've already given me so much help and info.
Assuming that your DM allows their campaign to become Mythic, then yes.
Or by using the Ascension spell to temporarily make the party Mythic. Although even then, the party would need to already possess an artifact of some description to serve as the focus component for the spell, and artifacts are GM-permission, by and large (Alchemist 20th as the exception).
This falls back on the "DM allows" argument, both for the artifact focus, and simply for the use of the spell. If the DM doesn't want to let you use Mythic Tiers, I highly doubt he'd let any of your characters learn/use the spell.
Very true, minus the Alchemist I mentioned. Technically nothing should be stopping a Wizard or the like from picking Ascension as a spell on level-up besides the GM saying no. By the time you're at 20th level, there's not much else to do besides go Mythic if the players/GM want to keep on advancing.

Also very true. I'm simply saying if the DM is dead-set against mythic tiers, I doubt he'd let you cast it "just cause".

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Alleran wrote:
By the time you're at 20th level, there's not much else to do besides go Mythic if the players/GM want to keep on advancing.

Or you just advance to 21st level, as described in the Core Rulebook.


Epic Meepo wrote:
Alleran wrote:
By the time you're at 20th level, there's not much else to do besides go Mythic if the players/GM want to keep on advancing.
Or you just advance to 21st level, as described in the Core Rulebook.

You mean the section that notes that the described guidelines aren't enough to go beyond 22nd or so and that Paizo may eventually publish actual rules to take the game into the epic realms, which we now know is Mythic? *insert tongue-sticking-out-emoticon here*

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