Mythic Adventures is out - Any questions?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Caedwyr wrote:
How well do the published Mythic rules go to addressing the issues raised in that thread? I'll admit having held off on purchasing these rules as what I saw in the playtest did not inspire me all that much. I'm curious if these rules are worth taking a look at?

That is an extremely difficult question to answer, given that very few people will already have run a mythic game with rules from this book. There is a whole GM section which tries to help with the part of making play "feel" mythic, so Paizo is trying to give everybody a hand. The powers themselves feel suitably grande, IMO, but in the end they boil down to mechanical bonuses, as do all other things in the game.


A lot of the abilities are really cool. Some of them, unfortunately, are just number boosts. This was most obvious in the mythic enhanced feats which enhanced already-boring feats (I'm looking at you, spell focus). You don't have to take the boring abilities, though--there are enough interesting ones to fill many characters.


How much do the Mythic abilities just add +1s versus allowing things that the normal rules do not allow. Can you steal a concept, break the rules of magic, or become unkillable? Or do these rules just add an alternate leveling path with abilities that come at a different pace, but wouldn't be out of place as part of a normal class level progressions (although maybe at a slightly different point)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Caedwyr wrote:
How much do the Mythic abilities just add +1s versus allowing things that the normal rules do not allow. Can you steal a concept, break the rules of magic, or become unkillable? Or do these rules just add an alternate leveling path with abilities that come at a different pace, but wouldn't be out of place as part of a normal class level progressions (although maybe at a slightly different point)?

Yes and yes. The rules do both, break the rules and just give better numerical bonuses. Depends on which mythic path abilities you pick.


Guess not so much here to ask questions, but to weigh in on my opinion.

Picked up the book release day (accidentally, I might add. Went in looking for another book, found this had just been released, snatched it up and ran home giggling like a school girl, very macho.) and I've spent the past several days perusing it. My opinions can be summed up as follows.

-Archmage is broken.
-Others are OK
-Monsters need more MP
-Mythic Troll is awesome.
-Mythic Feats are hit/miss.
-Mythic Spells are hit/miss.
-Want more of both.

Now! For a more in-depth analysis, I shall take my previous list as it stands and slowly dissect it.

Primarily, Archmage as I see it is the most broken of the Mythic paths. It is also one of the only paths that has a plethora of abilities inherently unique to it. Most of the others share most (never all, but close...) of their abilities with other paths, to the point where I wasn't entirely sure what the difference really was between Champion and Guardian until I saw Critical Master in the Tier 6 Champion abilities and couldn't stop myself from drooling. In D&D esque games, Arcane Casters have usually tended to have the cream of the crop, and mythic is continuing to ensure that is the case. Any players of witches, however, are bound to be a little disappointed. That was the only downfall in my opinion, with the only real love for witches coming in with the Mythic Hexes path ability, but the second you run up against Mythic targets, you'll fall flat pretty quickly.

The other paths are OK, but with the exception of a few mind-boggling path abilities (critical master, make love to me), I can't really say that they had the same WOW factor of Archmage. All of them definitely have their uses, and I could easily see different applications of them for classes universally, I just think that maybe a little too much of Paizo's creative OOMPH went into Archmage, leaving the rest a little under-whelming.

Monsters. This was a big one for me, because I've loved all the beastiaries so far, and always enjoy reading new monsters. It was no surprise to me when they only used pre-existing monsters, since mythic was about improving upon what was there, not creating something new, but it seemed to me like in a lot of cases it fell flat. I think what may have annoyed me moreso was the fact that monsters received a lot less mythic love than players. As someone who primarily runs games, mostly due to players who lack the initiative to do it themselves, I was really looking forward to the GM section of the book as much as the player. It was there that I found it pretty lacking.

Aside from some pretty good advice and story hook ideas on how to handle the mythic adventure for your players, the actual rules for monsters fell pretty flat. The mythic template felt a little rushed, and despite it's creation, what endeared me to several of the monsters wasn't the template itself, but some of the new, unique abilities they gained. Like the Mythic Troll, whose regeneration is now off the charts, or the Treant's druidic magic ability (Yes, they're right next to each other, but that's the part of the book that's open right now.). But following closely behind that, I find that many of those very same unique abilities burn through mythic points like hot cakes, and monsters get even less of these than players, significantly so. Players get 3+(Tier*2), whereas monsters just get 1/rank/day. Action economy has always been a big issue, and I've always been aware that Pathfinder has swung the pendulum very firmly in the player's direction (moreso than 3.5, in my opinion), but I feel like with Mythic, this may have become an even wider gap. The mythic simple templates add a bit more, but I still feel like it was lacking. And on a minor note, I just plain wanted more. Sure there were a few creatures in there, but I'd frankly want an entire beastiary worth of these to feel more like it had received the love it deserves.

Mythic feats... this is a bit of a sore spot for me. When I had initially heard the term "mythic feats", I had expected grandoise new creations, feats to truly distinguish your character from the mundane. What I instead discovered was 90% of "you're just a tiny bit better than anybody else" and 10% "you don't even have to try anymore", which frankly was a little irritating. Take Mythic Deadly Aim, you literally gain +1 extra damage... 1. Just 1. It improves as your bab improves, but essentially it's a +1 bonus over the old feat. But then you take something like "Drink Is Life", which turns a Drunken Master monk practically into a CC-immune god, and is entirely unique to the book, and I'm reminded both of what I had been looking forward to, and what the feats section could've been. Again, there are some that are really good, others that are good situationally, and then there's some that are just plain bad or downright worthless. Obviously this is always going to be the case, I just wish there had been a higher ratio of good to bad in something with the moniker "mythic."

Mythic spells, ho boy. Initially I was on this section like white on rice, picking out my favorite spells and looking for mythic counterparts, and then either trying to wrap my head around the insanity of it's upgraded power (Mythic Fireball), or more commonly thinking that it was left a little behind, and not really sure why (Mythic Lightning Bolt.) Sure, there were plenty that I felt added a very "cool" factor to the upgraded spell (Mythic Web), but then there were others where I felt like it was overkill (Mythic Meteor Swarm), and still others where I wasn't sure what the point was at all (Mythic Faerie Fire). The "pointless" spells were much rarer than their feat counterparts, and were primarily reserved for low level spells, so I wasn't particularly bothered. However, what struck me was the fact that what I had initially assumed was the ability to simply cast the mythic version of any spell you knew, was in fact the ability to cast an EXTREMELY LIMITED number of mythic spells. This was both a good and a bad thing in my mind. On one hand, I wouldn't have players with an endless supply of mythic spells, on the other, it would mean that players who did end up going a mythic caster route would likely only pick out the most overpowered spells, and not "cool" or simply "useful" ones. As such, I feel like by and large I will never see the majority of these spells used in play, barring extreme borderline cases. However, I do feel like the mythic spell system was (mostly) fairly balanced with the consumption of MP to power boost ratio.

And to cap it, yeah, still want more of both. A lot of my favorite spells and feats might be considered edge-cases, but I would still want to see more. Perhaps in a year or two we'll see a Mythic Adventures 2 book, with more paths, more abilities, and more feats and spells to expand upon what we've already received.

Holy hell I wrote a book, sorry guys.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No, it's cool. It was a good review and I shared much of what you felt in my initial readthrough, especially on the side of how monsters feel underwhelming compared to the player character upgrades. Also the comparison between Mythic Fireball and Mythic Lightning Bolt is the same I made mentally when seeing those two spells for the first time.

Shadow Lodge

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FlySkyHigh wrote:
Primarily, Archmage as I see it is the most broken of the Mythic paths.

Surprising absolutely noone.


Well...the mythic spells and archmage are not nearly as broken as the ELH's epic spells, so I guess that is an improvement...


137ben wrote:
Well...the mythic spells and archmage are not nearly as broken as the ELH's epic spells, so I guess that is an improvement...

Point. Mythic as it stands is still a far more balanced system than ELH.

Shadow Lodge

Talk about damning with faint praise.


The playtest left me with the same feelings about monsters and MP. I ended up retooling a monster with Mythic Tiers as opposed to slapping a mythic template on them. It was terrible when I could come up with a great and flavorful mythic ability for the monster...but couldn't use it because there was basically no MP for them.

Are the sections on building monsters expanded and more detailed?


Uh, I'd like to answer that, but I didn't participate in the playtest, so I'm not really sure what "expanded and more detailed" would qualify as. I'm likely going to assume no, because there is really only about 6 total pages dedicated to building mythic monsters, one whole page of which essentially repeats itself. There are five "Simple Mythic Templates", Agile, Arcane, Divine, Invincible, and Savage, and then the Mythic Subtype itself, which is essentially a sum total of "you're a mythic character, and you gain natural armor and dr." The simple templates essentially ARE the mythic subtype, with a small bonus on each, so really about 1/2 of the entire "monster building" section repeats itself.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What FlySkyHigh said.


I seem to recall a sample adventure being included in the play test, is there one in the official release?


Tal_Akaan wrote:
I seem to recall a sample adventure being included in the play test, is there one in the official release?

Yes, there is. It's different from the playtest one (and better, IMO).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yep, "Fire over Blackcrag", a 16-page adventure.


Sweet.


I got a few. What do these do, if they exist: Mythic Disintegrate, Mythic Time Stop, Mythic Teleport, Mythic Finger of Death, Mythic Lightning Bolt, and Mythic Telekinesis.

Sorry for saying "Mythic" so much, but I wanted to be clear, lol.


First, I'll say that the book obviously could not list mythic versions of every spell in every other book, but that I would encourage GMs to create their own mythic variants of existing spells.
As for what is printed in MA:

Disintegrate: Does more damage, also does 1d4 constitution damage (1 con damage on a save). You can augment it with mythic power to fire either 2 rays at once or instantly kill a nonmythic creature which fails its save.
Finger of Death: More hp damage, does 1d8 constitution damage. Cannot be augmented.
Lightning Bolt:Does more damage and staggers the target. If you augment it, you can cause it to bend 90 degrees mid-bolt.
Telekinesis: I'm just going to quote it directly:

Mythic Adventures wrote:

The duration of this spell changes to 1 round per level. You

may spend a move action to use the sustained force or combat
maneuver effects of the spell.
When using sustained force, you can move a number of
objects up to your tier. These must be in the same square and
together must weigh no more than the weight limit of the spell.
Using the violent thrust effect ends the spell, but the weight
restriction increases to 50 pounds per caster level (maximum
750 pounds).

It can't be augmented.

Teleport: Does not have a listed mythic enhancement. If you want to add one to the game, I would suggest increasing the capacity, and an augmentation which lets you teleport an unwilling subject.
Time Stop: Your allies can also be affected by time stop, and you can interact with them normally. So use Mythic time stop, then summon, buff all your allies, let your party members buff each other...actually, this could make in-combat healing useful if your party healer heals during the time stop.
You can also augment it with three uses of mythic power to last 1 hour/level.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

FlySkyHigh wrote:

Guess not so much here to ask questions, but to weigh in on my opinion.

Picked up the book release day (accidentally, I might add. Went in looking for another book, found this had just been released, snatched it up and ran home giggling like a school girl, very macho.) and I've spent the past several days perusing it. My opinions can be summed up as follows.

-Archmage is broken.
-Others are OK
-Monsters need more MP
-Mythic Troll is awesome.
-Mythic Feats are hit/miss.
-Mythic Spells are hit/miss.
-Want more of both.

Monsters. This was a big one for me, because I've loved all the beastiaries so far,...

If you're looking for more detailed mythic monsters, you should check out this thread right here. As for the other things on your list... you may be very happy soon.


Jason Nelson wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:

Guess not so much here to ask questions, but to weigh in on my opinion.

Picked up the book release day (accidentally, I might add. Went in looking for another book, found this had just been released, snatched it up and ran home giggling like a school girl, very macho.) and I've spent the past several days perusing it. My opinions can be summed up as follows.

-Archmage is broken.
-Others are OK
-Monsters need more MP
-Mythic Troll is awesome.
-Mythic Feats are hit/miss.
-Mythic Spells are hit/miss.
-Want more of both.

Monsters. This was a big one for me, because I've loved all the beastiaries so far,...

If you're looking for more detailed mythic monsters, you should check out this thread right here. As for the other things on your list... you may be very happy soon.

Yeah, needless to say I've been stalking your blog now >.>

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Woo, my own stalker!


Jason Nelson wrote:
Woo, my own stalker!

Mythic Aberrations

Mythic Constructs
Mythic Elementals
Mythic Undead
Mythic Animals.

Get to it.


FlySkyHigh wrote:
Guess not so much here to ask questions, but to weigh in on my opinion....

Thank you for this thoughtful review. I have been trying to find info on this book to see if it is one to buy, or to wait until posted on the PRD. I have most of the other books and really enjoy them. For MA, I was hoping to read a review that made me hit the checkout button and purchase it. I, too, am doing a fair amount of GMing, and have not been at Pathfinder very long, having played D&D back in the 70s. So with such a long hiatus, I was looking forward to a lot of help for a GM who wants alternatives to bring into a campaign, and who has not been along for the ride throughout the years and knows of a lot of other sources. Your review has me removing my finger from checkout, and has me now waiting until I can check it out on the PRD. Maybe, in the future, I will hold a copy in my hand. Now, I am just holding.

Shadow Lodge

Rather disappointed. I was hoping that it would provide a lot of NEW abilities. Instead, it's a lot like the ELH, in that almost everything presented is an a previously existing ability with the word "Mythic/Epic" awkwardly shoved in front of the name. And the monster section was horribly uninspired...I'd like to have seen some NEW monsters, not just "Mythic" versions of generic pre-existing monsters.


Can a prepared caster use Hierophant's inspired spell ability?

It paradoxically calls out that a "If you are a spontaneous caster, you don't need to have the spell prepared" but doesn't say anything about if you're a prepared caster.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Looks like a printing error to me, otherwise why put the "you don't need to have the spell prepared" in there? However, the very next sentence says "Using this ability does not expend a prepared spell", so it very clearly references prepared spells twice. It should just work fine.


10 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required.

Ok i have a problem where raw is clear, but also clearly broken.
Epic damage reduction reads

Quote:

A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be

overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6
or greater (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 299). Weapons with special
abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming
damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their
abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater

This means that basically any high level weapon we already had have always been able to bypass that DR, but we only know it now. I mean, at 9 level a magus can bypass that with a +3 sword, or even any other char with mythic arcane weapon can quite fast get to that +6.


It's gotta be a mistake. Anyway, I'm ignoring that for games I'm running. Either a +6 enhancement bonus or a total equivalent enhancement of +11 is needed to overcome epic DR. I see no reason to water that down.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Outside of certain classes and enchantments (Bane, Furious), do we even get to +11 from anywhere?


So let's FAQ it. No time like the present! We discovered it takes a relatively number of requests in the right circumstances, and this is fresh on their minds, so FAQ! ;-)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Good idea, although I think it would be best to open a new thread for this, instead of burying it on page five on an existing one.


As a third tier Trickster, could I use the Hierophant path ability (via Path Dabbling) Hurling Vengeance (make full attacks with the same thrown weapon by expending mythic power) with daggers since my deity's favored weapon is the dagger??

I'm looking to make a character that focuses on throwing knives, and this would be great since I could use the same blade as opposed to several. I could even make the dagger a legendary weapon.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rhapsodic College Dropout wrote:

As a third tier Trickster, could I use the Hierophant path ability (via Path Dabbling) Hurling Vengeance (make full attacks with the same thrown weapon by expending mythic power) with daggers since my deity's favored weapon is the dagger??

I'm looking to make a character that focuses on throwing knives, and this would be great since I could use the same blade as opposed to several. I could even make the dagger a legendary weapon.

I don't see why you could not. The specifications are that it must be your deity and that it must be its favored weapon. If both apply, go nuts.


magnuskn wrote:
Good idea, although I think it would be best to open a new thread for this, instead of burying it on page five on an existing one.

I don't think it matters if they get a couple dozen requests in a short period of time. It's the post, not thread, that matters. If you start a new thread, tell us where and I'll cast my vote.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
AinvarG wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Good idea, although I think it would be best to open a new thread for this, instead of burying it on page five on an existing one.
I don't think it matters if they get a couple dozen requests in a short period of time. It's the post, not thread, that matters. If you start a new thread, tell us where and I'll cast my vote.

Done so here.

Shadow Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Primarily, Archmage as I see it is the most broken of the Mythic paths. It is also one of the only paths that has a plethora of abilities inherently unique to it. Most of the others share most (never all, but close...) of their abilities with other paths, to the point where I wasn't entirely sure what the difference really was between Champion and Guardian until I saw Critical Master in the Tier 6 Champion abilities and couldn't stop myself from drooling.

I have a feeling more path abilities and feats will appear in the near future with the mythis origins, mythic realms, Wrath of the Righteous AP etc. This may address some of the issues.

FlySkyHigh wrote:
Monsters. This was a big one for me, because I've loved all the beastiaries so far, and always enjoy reading new monsters. It was no surprise to me when they only used pre-existing monsters, since mythic was about improving upon what was there, not creating something new, but it seemed to me like in a lot of cases it fell flat. I think what may have annoyed me moreso was the fact that monsters received a lot less mythic love than players.

Again I’m hoping that Wrath of the Righteous AP, Mythic realms and Bestiary 4 (5…) will address this. The book is new and so monters limited – not too different really to when the pathfinder rpg first started and we only had bestiary 1.

FlySkyHigh wrote:
…monsters get even less of these than players, significantly so. Players get 3+(Tier*2), whereas monsters just get 1/rank/day. Action economy has always been a big issue … but I feel like with Mythic, this may have become an even wider gap.

Actually I’m OK with this and will need to test it in play. I think this is a good balance thing. Players usually have multiple encounters per “day” so need to spread out mythic points through these encounters. Monsters can rip through them pretty fast since they appear for a brief time in a single encounter. Give a monster the same amount of mythic points and the balance could radically shift in the other direction. Need to see it in play really to be sure though but I think it will only be a problem if they have a single encounter per “day”

FlySkyHigh wrote:
Mythic feats..

100% echo the sentiments here. Some are awesome and inspiring. Some are bland and seem ludicrously underpowered. For me comparing deadly aim, power attack and furious assault highlight the weirdness for me. Mythic Deadly aim and power attack increases damage to +3 for a -1ATT (rather than+2/-1 of the non-mythics). Sounds fine and I like it, it’s simple - not real interesting but overall a real improvement on the non-mythic versions. Then you get weird. In power attack, and only in PA, not deadly aim, you can negate the penalties for 1 min by expending a mythic point. Then you get mythic furious when you can negate PA penalties for a round by expending 1 mythic point – why the hell would you take furious assault or mythic furious when PA does the same only better?

Spells I’ll leave until I read through, but they seem like the feats, out of kilter. Mythic time stop gives your allies time stop as well, holy hell.


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Cat-thulhu wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Monsters. This was a big one for me, because I've loved all the beastiaries so far, and always enjoy reading new monsters. It was no surprise to me when they only used pre-existing monsters, since mythic was about improving upon what was there, not creating something new, but it seemed to me like in a lot of cases it fell flat. I think what may have annoyed me moreso was the fact that monsters received a lot less mythic love than players.

Again I’m hoping that Wrath of the Righteous AP, Mythic realms and Bestiary 4 (5…) will address this. The book is new and so monters limited – not too different really to when the pathfinder rpg first started and we only had bestiary 1.

Well, now we have the first part of the Legendary Monsters series, so...more mythic monsters!


Cat-thulhu wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Primarily, Archmage as I see it is the most broken of the Mythic paths. It is also one of the only paths that has a plethora of abilities inherently unique to it. Most of the others share most (never all, but close...) of their abilities with other paths, to the point where I wasn't entirely sure what the difference really was between Champion and Guardian until I saw Critical Master in the Tier 6 Champion abilities and couldn't stop myself from drooling.

I have a feeling more path abilities and feats will appear in the near future with the mythis origins, mythic realms, Wrath of the Righteous AP etc. This may address some of the issues.

FlySkyHigh wrote:
Monsters. This was a big one for me, because I've loved all the beastiaries so far, and always enjoy reading new monsters. It was no surprise to me when they only used pre-existing monsters, since mythic was about improving upon what was there, not creating something new, but it seemed to me like in a lot of cases it fell flat. I think what may have annoyed me moreso was the fact that monsters received a lot less mythic love than players.
Again I’m hoping that Wrath of the Righteous AP, Mythic realms and Bestiary 4 (5…) will address this. The book is new and so monters limited – not too different really to when the pathfinder rpg first started and we only had bestiary 1...

Marked for FAQ, I didn't notice furious assault, and that should really be fixed. Also, I can see what you mean about monsters, so I guess that's fair. This would become more troublesome as players gain access to mythic items, when they'll get multiple ways to restore mp per day.


I'm not entirely sure how Oracles and Gunslingers are supposed to interact with the mythic paths. I mean, it seems like they can't benefit from a lot--a lot of the hierophant abilities specifically mention domains, leaving Oracles high and dry, and the Always a Chance and Through Shot Champion abilities seem to screw over gunslinger (gun still misfires on the first, on the second arrows can change direction but not bullets). Was this just a case of trying to save room?


FanaticRat wrote:
I'm not entirely sure how Oracles and Gunslingers are supposed to interact with the mythic paths. I mean, it seems like they can't benefit from a lot--a lot of the hierophant abilities specifically mention domains, leaving Oracles high and dry, and the Always a Chance and Through Shot Champion abilities seem to screw over gunslinger (gun still misfires on the first, on the second arrows can change direction but not bullets). Was this just a case of trying to save room?

It's possible that this was simply an oversight, but at the same time, it may have been intentional. In my experience, I've discovered that both Oracles and Gunslingers have more inherent power than Cleric/Ranger respectively, so they may have intended to give those people more power to bring them up to par.

I haven't really looked into Mythic Gunslingers, I'll have to take a look and get back to you, I may have missed something they could use to great effect.

Oop! Did a quick reconnoiter, and I'd wager that Champion would be the path to go for Gunslingres, picking up Blowback and Backlash, and Limitless Range in the tier 1 abilities, Penetrating Damage, Precision, and Unstoppable Shot in tier 3, and Critical Master x2 and Perfect STrike in Tier 6, smattered with others that you desire. This would turn your gunslinger into a massive monster of a gunman, and nothing could stand before you!


I looked into oracles... I literally only found 1 hierophant ability that even referenced them. I suppose in a lot of cases, they're just going to assume that you'll be a buffing machine, but it's still disappointing that we didn't see any mythic revelations or anything.


I could be wrong, but comments leading up to release made me think this was not meant to make oracle+ or ranger+ so much as character+, if you know what I mean. I have not studied the book like you have, but there aren't many class-specific toys, are there? Most I've seen appear to be role-related: the healer, the melee machine, the inspired leader. Naturally, some classes fit some niches like a glove, but any path can be used with any class, so....

I guess I am just saying I had no expectation of class-specific abilities, so no revelations is fine by me. And I like oracles, it's not that I don't play the class. My first mythic character is rolled and ready - and she's an oracle. *shrug*


AinvarG wrote:

I could be wrong, but comments leading up to release made me think this was not meant to make oracle+ or ranger+ so much as character+, if you know what I mean. I have not studied the book like you have, but there aren't many class-specific toys, are there? Most I've seen appear to be role-related: the healer, the melee machine, the inspired leader. Naturally, some classes fit some niches like a glove, but any path can be used with any class, so....

I guess I am just saying I had no expectation of class-specific abilities, so no revelations is fine by me. And I like oracles, it's not that I don't play the class. My first mythic character is rolled and ready - and she's an oracle. *shrug*

A lot of them are not class specific. Some of them do reference or specifically help/mention specific class features--for example, certain archmage abilities benefit people with "barred schools", or "bloodlines". That means it can be used by any current or future class (or homebrew class) with that class feature. It is also, however, limiting to classes without those specific class features.


If you think oracles are bad, think about Alchemists. Remember that Infusions (at least as far as I know) are not spells...
(Through utilizing either ranged or melee path abilities, he can still get quite strong, it just doesn't really feel right)


Upon further view, I did find a few abilities that reference revelations, so Oracles aren't really left out in the cold.

@AinvarG: Yeah, this is generally true. And a lot of the most powerful mythic path abilities and such are non-class specific, but I would've still figured that each class would gain a little love, instead of simply most of them.

@137ben: Pretty much correct, and what I'm thinking.

@Teller: Oh my god, you're right. I didn't even realize. I mean, for my purposes, I'd probably house-rule infusions to count as spells for mythic abilities, but aside from that, you're right.


So I have a bunch of players that can't help but optimize and I find that encounters as written in RotRLs generally not challenging enough. Does adding a monster/enemy with mythic ranks make sense to pump up the intensity of encounters without adding mythic powers to PCs?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Instead, it's a lot like the ELH, in that almost everything presented is an a previously existing ability with the word "Mythic/Epic" awkwardly shoved in front of the name.

Actually that is not the case. the mythic feats are *not* named like "Mythic Weapon Focus", the feat in quesion is just named "Weapon Focus" and is of the feat type "mythic". The same applies to all the other feats. They have the same name as core feats, but type mythic instead of general.

Interesting, by the way, that the mythic version of combat feats are not themselves combat feats, which means a fighter cannot take them with his bonus feats. I wonder if this is intended.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

By the way, I wonder where the idea comes from that two mythic tiers equal one level in power. This seems to me in no way a representation of what I read in the book. Hell, the first mythic tier alone is certainly more than half a level in power. Actually more than one level, maybe more like two.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Instead, it's a lot like the ELH, in that almost everything presented is an a previously existing ability with the word "Mythic/Epic" awkwardly shoved in front of the name.

Actually that is not the case. the mythic feats are *not* named like "Mythic Weapon Focus", the feat in quesion is just named "Weapon Focus" and is of the feat type "mythic". The same applies to all the other feats. They have the same name as core feats, but type mythic instead of general.

Interesting, by the way, that the mythic version of combat feats are not themselves combat feats, which means a fighter cannot take them with his bonus feats. I wonder if this is intended.

I'm pretty sure it's intentional.

Firstly, the intro section to Mythic Feats clearly states that the only way to gain mythic feats is from mythic tiers, not bonus feats, normal feats, or feats from any other source.

Secondly, the only reason that some feats are combat feats (or, as discussed in another thread, item creation feats and teamwork feats) is because some classes can select those feats from their class features (such as a fighter's bonus feats, rogue tricks, wizard bonus feats, or a cavalier's Tactician ability). Since the mythic versions absolutely are not selectable from those class features, there is absolutely no need to tag the mythic feats into those feat groupings, since it could potentially cause confusion as to whether they are selectable from those class features. Safer to not include them.

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