So, I got my PDF of Mythic Adventures opened and am not burdened with too much to do today. If anybody has questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them, although I don't want to post rules wholesale... that is frowned upon by the developers, IIRC. Still, I hope I can help you guys out.
So, who goes first?
I had a brief look-see just then and I think I saw an ability... but just can't find it again. So here's the rough description of the ability:
Mythic ability (that I forgot the name of)
It allows the mythic character to spend its Mythic Power to cast a spell in its class spell list without having to prepare nor having known it beforehand.
The thing is, it's NOT the Mythic Spellcasting universal path ability! That's the thing that really threw me off-path trying to find it again :(
Grrr help meh magnuskn!
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I'll be honest, I was thinking about other kinds of questions than "why can't I use the search function in my PDF reader?" More like from people who actually don't have the PDF or book yet.
That having been said, just found it, it's the "Wild Arcana" Archmage arcana on page 14.
How do mythic abilities affect monsters? Do mythic dragons kick ass or do they generally need reinforcements? Do the monster mythic abilities significantly increase the ability to design "boss" encounters?
Monsters gain a "mythic rank", which normally is half their original CR. They get mythic abilities to the tune of mythic rank +1 and a number of mythic power uses equal to their rank per day. The abilities seem to be unique to monsters, as so far I haven't found things like "Dual Initiative" (get another turn per round at -20 initiative by spending one mythic power) on player classes. That being said, only one monster had it in its statblock, although it is listed in one of the templates later on.
Mythic dragons kick ass, but as usual they should get reinforcements or they will be overwhelmed by the sheer action economy of PC's, which doesn't get any easier on monsters with mythic powers in the mix.
I'd say that adding Dual Initiative alone would increase your ability to have "single boss" encounters be more balanced and the rest of the mythic monster abilities seem to enhance survivability further. That having been said, the expanded action economy of the mythic player characters alone will counter that. IMO, expect rounds in mythic-on-mythic battles to take significantly longer, but don't expect combats to last longer in-game than before.
I picked my copy up and have just finished my first read.
It's... not great. There is so much about the Mythic Adventures book that I dislike that I would never use these rules as is.
However, the rules don't take much modification to make it into something I do like. The abundance of content requires a few fundamental-yet-simple changes to ease my irritation.
Let it all out, I don't need to hog this thread for myself. ;)
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I might as well speak of my main concern here, although for some it may even be a benefit.
The mythic rules strongly encourage flanderisation.
Because it takes so much investment of path powers and feats to stay at the top of your game in a narrow set of abilities, it's staggeringly difficult to shore up your secondary concepts to keep up.
Mythic characters are over the top, extreme parodies of their former selves. Maybe that's the intent.
Well, I can't say that I have absorbed the book enough to make a really educated argument (it's a lot of stuff and I've begun to skim over things after reading three paths in their entirety), but unless you want to be the "best of the best of the best! Sir!", Dual Path alone makes it possible to branch out in different directions.
That being said, some abilities are ZOMGWTF? and others are so bad in comparison. I really don't see many people taking mythic feats like the skill enhancers, versus stuff like mythic Rapid Shot/Manyshot or even more powerful feats. Or "get +4 CL for spell duration" as an ability in the Archmage tree, versus "counterspell as an immediate action with any spell of the same level or higher" or "summon monsters as standard action (or even swift if spending two mythic power uses".
Sure, the "+4 CL for spell duration" one is always on, but its use is minuscule in comparison to most other talents.
My initial reaction was: I thought Munchkin was by Steve Jackson Games....
Seriously, though, I need to read the GM section before I draw a final conclusion as 20 pages in, I'm thinking Mythic is a bit too over the top.
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the way I view Mythics is that rather than changing the character in any fundamental way, it represents the strongly ingrained destiny of the character. This is the thing I really like about Mythic path vs. Epic. Epic characters are already extremely powerful beings... that just get more powerful. There's no sense of wonder, there's just endless optimising and hack-n'-slashing.
Think of a Mythic fighter as Hercules, or Theseus on their Day One. You get to start from grounds-up, following a hero's journey from the very beginning. And we all know that this journey is not like any other... because in the character sheet itself, he is DESTINED to become a champion!
You'll get to fight not epic force dragons or demiliches but Mythic Lions and Boars, wrestling the most extraordinary versions of mundane creatures that themselves are of Mythical proportions.
That 'Greek Mythology' feel, is what gets me excited about Mythic Adventures.
Well, it's supposed to represent mythic characters, not just "slightly better than usual" ones. ^^
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My initial reaction was: I thought Munchkin was by Steve Jackson Games....
Seriously, though, I need to read the GM section before I draw a final conclusion as 20 pages in, I'm thinking Mythic is a bit too over the top.
Just glancing over the final rules and my impression is that Mythic isn't something that you do lightly. It looks like fun in its own way, but you REALLY don't want to mix it in with your normal game or there will be tears all around. I'm also worried about the amount of additional preparation required to run a Mythic game.
Still...it looks like a more solid effort than the Epic Level Handbook for 3.5.
Oh, certainly. 3.5 Epic was ridiculously bad.
I may do my own rewrite of these rules. I'll eliminate pretty much all the abilities that make you 'better' and emphasise the ones that make you 'different'. I don't need something to pump up numbers that people already want maxed. I want something that allows people to act outside the norms in interesting ways.
For me, mythic shouldn't be about stacking more pluses. It should be about going beyond the norm in ways other than buffing conventional powers. Some of the mythic abilities do this. Most don't.
Just glancing over the final rules and my impression is that Mythic isn't something that you do lightly. It looks like fun in its own way, but you REALLY don't want to mix it in with your normal game or there will be tears all around. I'm also worried about the amount of additional preparation required to run a Mythic game.
Still...it looks like a more solid effort than the Epic Level Handbook for 3.5.
Yeah definitely. You're either IN on Mythics, or you're staying as faaarr away from it as you can.
For example, a DM shouldn't simply send Mythic monsters against non-Mythic party without an intention of rewarding them Mythic tier down the track.
For me, mythic shouldn't be about stacking more pluses. It should be about going beyond the norm in ways other than buffing conventional powers. Some of the mythic abilities do this. Most don't.
Well then I really hope you share your vision with the rest of us too! I like the way you think.
Even if I do keep the basic mythic progression, I'm definitely changing the +2 to an ability score to +1 to three ability scores. SADs have enough fun and shouldn't complain about +5 to their main stat over 10 tiers, and MADs aren't left out in the cold.
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Even if I do keep the basic mythic progression, I'm definitely changing the +2 to an ability score to +1 to three ability scores. SADs have enough fun and shouldn't complain about +5 to their main stat over 10 tiers, and MADs aren't left out in the cold.
I think that there is so much new material in the book that it's going to take a while to absorb it all - it doesn't surprise me that its a bit uneven in places because it looks like one of the most ambitious products that Paizo have ever released. There are some amazing new concepts in the book but it's hard to know how they will work in actual play. It looks like there are some fairly complex interdependencies between different sections of the new rules that will take time to fully understand.
I suspect that we may need something like the old Dicefreaks community to start developing house rules that extend the new concepts in the Mythic book in various directions though...
I wanted to know what the new Aerial Assault, Wall Smasher, and Devastating Smash Champion Path abilities do.
I was wondering if Mythic Lightning Stance, Haste, and Ant Haul exist.
Aerial Assault: Charge/Leap at opponents, spend one mythic power, make one acrobatics check and add 10 feet per mythic tier to your height or distance. If you hit, deal additional damage up to the falling damage you would have taken. You can also instead replace your melee attack with a grapple check, if successful you both get grounded (so it's primarily against flyers, if I read that correctly) and the opponent takes the falling damage you would have taken.
Devastating Smash: Treat hardness/DR of objects/constructs as ten lesser than normal. Add your mythic tier to damage. Alternatively, spend a mythic power and treat hardness/DR as zero and do double tier damage.
Wall Smasher: If you succeed at a bull rush or ki throw, you can smash the enemy against a wall or large object within the range you could move him with a combat maneuver. You deal unarmed strike damage to the opponent and the wall. Or you can spend a mythic power and ignore the hardness of the wall while doing the above and if that destroys the wall, you move your opponent in the space beyond it and he falls down.
No Lightning Stance and Ant Haul, but Mythic Haste does exist. Additionally to the normal effects, you can take an additional move action and your movement increases by 50 feet, up from 30. You can augment the spell further at third tier by spending an additional mythic power and that increases your additional movement to a total of 70 feet and lets you walk over liquid surfaces if you move at least 30 feet. If you walk over lava or something similarly dangerous, you only take half damage.
Is it only when you have a subscription that you get the PDF when you get the hardcover? I pre-ordered and was surprise NOT to find the PDF in My Downloads when I got my shipping notice.
How do the optional Flaws section look now? I loved the concept in the Playtest but was really hoping for some cool and positive changes in the final.
Errr, I would have to re-read the whole playtest part about flaws to make a comparison. I'll leave this to people who actually participated in that, because that would otherwise take about an hour to answer.
As for your suscription PDF, it will be available when they actually ship your suscription from the warehouse, not already with their first notification. I'm still waiting for my AP suscription and it is beyond frustrating. :-/
Thanks.
I was wondering what the highest CR monster is in the book.
Thanks.
I was wondering what the highest CR monster is in the book.
You're welcome and the highest CR monster is the Mythic Wyrm Red Dragon, which has a CR of 25 and MR (Mythic Rank) 10.
The weakest mythic monster is the Mythic Skeleton, with CR 1/MR 1. Which is, um, a Skeleton with 17 HP and some nifty specials, but nothing super-good. A level two Barbarian will probably smash it to bits in one hit if he has an Earthbreaker.
All being said, I am not that enamored with the mythic monsters so far. About all of them need to get the Agile mythic simple template, otherwise they need minions to counter the action economy advantage of the player characters.
I don't have a subscription for the book..I just pre-ordered the print version. So in that case I do NOT get a PDF included?
Correct. You need to buy it separately and, yes, this has always been the case. It's only 10$, like all their RPG line hardcovers, so it's pretty affordable ( unlike their, IMO, overprized PDFs for their other lines :-/ ).
Thanks! Wasn't sure how it worked :)
One question I have had for a while: how bad is the Mythic spam?
What percentage of new rules are just old rules, turned up to 11, and prepended with "Mythic"?
I have my fingers crossed that there will at least be some meaty new sections, after Ultimate Campaign. What they've previewed so far has disappointed me in the way of spamming the word Mythic like 3e spammed the word epic; until it lost all meaning.
I'm assuming there are more Path Abilities than in the playtest, right?
Archmage has 44, Champion has 47, the others should have similar numbers. Some of them ( between 1/4th to 1/3rd ) are only available after reaching tier three or six.
One question I have had for a while: how bad is the Mythic spam?
What percentage of new rules are just old rules, turned up to 11, and prepended with "Mythic"?
I have my fingers crossed that there will at least be some meaty new sections, after Ultimate Campaign. What they've previewed so far has disappointed me in the way of spamming the word Mythic like 3e spammed the word epic; until it lost all meaning.
The vast majority (7/8ths' about) of the mythic feats are upgrades to existing feats, which range from "Who would take that, ever?" to "OMGWTFBBQ?". The same goes for spells.
Monsters get their own abilities, some of which very closely resemble playtest versions of player character mythic abilities (Dual Initiative for one, which is not available to PC's anymore, but still to monsters).
To be honest, I am not very happy with how the monsters turned out, they seem to be a bit weaksauce, compared to what mythic player characters can do.
The path abilities for PC's, however, are varied and (compared to prior published non-mythic material) completely new.
There is a whole GM section on how to run mythic games and I haven't yet read it, nor the magic item section.
Hey, I have the PDF too, and I hope I don't get ostracized here, but...
Aren't archmages way, way way, better than any other path? Most noncaster path abilities seem to be just gimped spells, while archmages can cast a free spell not consuming spell slots that's either persistent or any spell from their spell list as a free action using only 1 point of MP doing something they'd do anyway (bardic performance, bloodline power, etc). Meanwhile champion gets an extra attack that they have to spend mythic power on. That seems way way imbalanced to me. Does anyone else agree?
Hey, I have the PDF too, and I hope I don't get ostracized here, but...
Aren't archmages way, way way, better than any other path? Most noncaster path abilities seem to be just gimped spells, while archmages can cast a free spell not consuming spell slots that's either persistent or any spell from their spell list as a free action using only 1 point of MP doing something they'd do anyway (bardic performance, bloodline power, etc). Meanwhile champion gets an extra attack that they have to spend mythic power on. That seems way way imbalanced to me. Does anyone else agree?
Too soon for me to make an educated statement about this, I must confess.
One question I have had for a while: how bad is the Mythic spam?
What percentage of new rules are just old rules, turned up to 11, and prepended with "Mythic"?
I have my fingers crossed that there will at least be some meaty new sections, after Ultimate Campaign. What they've previewed so far has disappointed me in the way of spamming the word Mythic like 3e spammed the word epic; until it lost all meaning.
Monsters get their own abilities, some of which very closely resemble playtest versions of player character mythic abilities (Dual Initiative for one, which is not available to PC's anymore, but still to monsters).
To be honest, I am not very happy with how the monsters turned out, they seem to be a bit weaksauce, compared to what mythic player characters can do.
Yeah, I think that would make some sense. The CR cap is still 25 for the written monsters, and characters have only gotten stronger. I just kind of hoped that the monsters have some cool flashy abilities.
What are some of the new things that the Mythic Earth Elemental can do? Do they have larger size categories for the Elementals?
Thanks.
Too soon for me to make an educated statement about this, I must confess.Hey, I have the PDF too, and I hope I don't get ostracized here, but...
Aren't archmages way, way way, better than any other path? Most noncaster path abilities seem to be just gimped spells, while archmages can cast a free spell not consuming spell slots that's either persistent or any spell from their spell list as a free action using only 1 point of MP doing something they'd do anyway (bardic performance, bloodline power, etc). Meanwhile champion gets an extra attack that they have to spend mythic power on. That seems way way imbalanced to me. Does anyone else agree?
Well please, let me know if you see things as I do, or find some evidence to counter that, because with casters being so great in vanilla PF, I was hoping perhaps martials may find a refuge in this book.
Well please, let me know if you see things as I do, or find some evidence to counter that, because with casters being so great in vanilla PF, I was hoping perhaps martials may find a refuge in this book.
Well, you can get more than one spell (or more than two, with Quicken Spell) per round as caster, but unless I read it incorrectly that will burn through your mythic power usages per day pretty fast. There is a multitude of cheaper ways to get extra standard actions, though, so martials can run up to their opponents and then full attack. Archers can get even more arrows in the air via Mythic Rapid Shot and Mythic Manyshot.
That's the best I got (so far), but then again it is very difficult to argue that magic characters aren't innately better than beatsticks. Some of the mythic spells rock.
What are some of the new things that the Mythic Earth Elemental can do? Do they have larger size categories for the Elementals?
Size categories are untouched, as far as I have seen. You'll have to wait until Bestiary 4 to get Colossal+.
The sample Mythic Elder Earth Elemental can petrify opponents with his slam and by expending one use of mythic power (DC 23) and if you save, you are slowed for 1d6 rounds. If he hits you two times in a round, save at DC 30 vs. stun for 1d6 rounds. If you hit the elemental with manufactured weapon, save reflex vs. DC 30 or get your weapon stuck.
Well please, let me know if you see things as I do, or find some evidence to counter that, because with casters being so great in vanilla PF, I was hoping perhaps martials may find a refuge in this book.Well, you can get more than one spell (or more than two, with Quicken Spell) per round as caster, but unless I read it incorrectly that will burn through your mythic power usages per day pretty fast. There is a multitude of cheaper ways to get extra standard actions, though, so martials can run up to their opponents and then full attack. Archers can get even more arrows in the air via Mythic Rapid Shot and Mythic Manyshot.
That's the best I got (so far), but then again it is very difficult to argue that magic characters aren't innately better than beatsticks. Some of the mythic spells rock.
you should still be limited to no more than two spell around, even with quicken spell, as quicken requires a swift action to use. and most of the archmages abilities also require swift actions to use. You only get 1 of those around. that was one of the big things in the play test that caused Amazing initiative to change. There is actual a rule in the core book that limits you to one spell a round with the exception of quicken spell or on that could be done as a swift action. it was found and that is why it was emphases under amazing initiative.
did they add something to give extra swift actions?
Coupled arcana lets you use any ability that uses mythic power as a free action with any bloodline power, hex, etc... as long as the hex, bloodline power, etc... is slower than a swift action.
you should still be limited to no more than two spell around, even with quicken spell, as quicken requires a swift action to use. and most of the archmages abilities also require swift actions to use. You only get 1 of those around. that was one of the big things in the play test that caused Amazing initiative to change. There is actual a rule in the core book that limits you to one spell a round with the exception of quicken spell or on that could be done as a swift action. it was found and that is why it was emphases under amazing initiative.
did they add something to give extra swift actions?
Well. If you use Amazing Initiative, you can get another standard action as a free action by spending a mythic power charge. However, you cannot cast spells with it. With the Archmage path ability "Abundant Casting", you can spend one mythic power charge to include another target to a single-target spell you cast, but if you need to make a melee touch attack to deliver that spell, you need to hold the charge. In my reading that means that you can now deliver that charge with your additional standard action, because you technically are not casting a spell with it, you are making a melee touch attack with your spell-charged hand. ^^
Okay, so technically you are not casting three times per round. :p
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I think that a lot of the martial abilities are ruined by having to use mythic power on them. For instance, you have to use a use of mythic power to remove 2 -2 penalties, and otherwise the feat gives no benefit at all.(Mythic TWF)
Yeah, that's one of the feats which is not so good. Of course, it may be a bit better if you are one of those "I want to dual-wield Bastard Swords!" types. ^^
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Yeah, that's one of the feats which is not so good. Of course, it may be a bit better if you are one of those "I want to dual-wield Bastard Swords!" types. ^^
Meh, I'll just house-rule it as reducing the penalties by 2 each and then keeping the "spend mythic to remove" for people who dual wield bastard swords, etc. Using 2 weapons that are made for that shouldn't require mythic power, but using 2 oversized ones should.
So... everything is Mythic X and Mythic Y, then?
I'm a little disappointed. I thought that was one of the reasons they wanted to differentiate from the epic rules.
I'll still check it out, obviously.