Thanks for the clarification ErrantX! The wide-eyed damage-monger in me is disappointed, but it's almost certainly much more reasonable not being able to get multiple free attacks off of a charge.
(I've also noticed a few copy-editing errors, under the spoiler
The Judge stalker Archetype, under judgements on page 4, there's no text after the subtitle 'deadly', it just linebreaks immediately to the next judgement 'Destructive'
The Bladecaster PRC, In Table: The Bladecaster on page 15, 'stance of the stance of Arcane Steel', at first level
I would certainly be a supporter of a hardcover Kickstarter.
Design Manager
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would certainly be a supporter of a hardcover Kickstarter.
Word. I've been ogling and caressing my hardcopy of Ultimate Psionics for the last few days and cursing the fact that my home group is currently neck deep in the Mummy's Mask playtesting the classes, archetypes, and races for my DSP published Magic of Incarnum port, Akashic Mysteries. I imagine that if I had the opportunity to get all up in a Path of War hardcopy I'd be having yet more of the "why isn't there enough time in my week for another game!" woes.
Plus, odds are good that I'd be dropping the kind of Kickstarter cash that forces them to let me write my own PrC and/or archetype for the final release :)
Chris and Jade know how much I want to play in their playground, lol!
...
So maybe make sure you give me at least 3 months to finish Akashic Mysteries before you start thinking Kickstarter, okay guys?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In 1989 I was 4 >_>I started in 3.5 so that's before my time. =)I grew up playing 2e for 7 years. I do not miss it. Not even a little.I started 2E in 1989... when it came out... after I had been into 1E the year before. -_-;
Feeling a little old now.
I was born in 1989.
I would certainly be a supporter of a hardcover Kickstarter.Plus, odds are good that I'd be dropping the kind of Kickstarter cash that forces them to let me write my own PrC and/or archetype for the final release :)
Chris and Jade know how much I want to play in their playground, lol!
Not going to go for the iconic/cover level there Ssalarn? ^_-
I can imagine it now SS.... You get to write a Prestige class to advance Chakras and Maneuvers for a multiclassed Akashic/Disciple... Too sexy
|
Design Manager
|
Not going to go for the iconic/cover level there Ssalarn? ^_-I would certainly be a supporter of a hardcover Kickstarter.Plus, odds are good that I'd be dropping the kind of Kickstarter cash that forces them to let me write my own PrC and/or archetype for the final release :)
Chris and Jade know how much I want to play in their playground, lol!
Considering I got to create the art order for the new DSP class, the Vizier, that's dropping soon and still have to place art orders for two more iconics and possibly 5 races, I'll probably leave that reward (assuming it ever actually exists) to someone else who won't have other opportunities to see their ideas gracing the cover of a DSP book.
Though honestly, the temptation to put my Warder (Archer Lord) Griestly Peppercorn right on the front cover of Chris' masterpiece would be hard to resist. Handlebar moustache, double-crossbow and an agile breastplate, firing a Solar Wind shot right into the mouth of something big, mean, and angry.
|
Design Manager
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can imagine it now SS.... You get to write a Prestige class to advance Chakras and Maneuvers for a multiclassed Akashic/Disciple... Too sexy
To be honest with you, I already wrote an archetype, I just don't know when/if I'll get to put it into a book.
It's a Warlord archetype where the basic mechanic is that he lacks an Essence pool, but accumulates temporary Essence by successfully landing Strikes or Gambits and trades out his normal Warleader ability for the Vizier's Seer Path ability to share Veils with allies. Basically grafts the Akasha system onto the Warlord and adds a few unique abilities to represent the blending of the two power sources.
If it weren't for the fact that it definitely steps out of my territory and into Chris', and the fact that I'm still neck deep in the core Akasha stuff, I'd probably write up an entire Akashic Discipline with an associated Organization.
<3 I guess save it for the Hardcover?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I can imagine it now SS.... You get to write a Prestige class to advance Chakras and Maneuvers for a multiclassed Akashic/Disciple... Too sexyTo be honest with you, I already wrote an archetype, I just don't know when/if I'll get to put it into a book.
It's a Warlord archetype where the basic mechanic is that he lacks an Essence pool, but accumulates temporary Essence by successfully landing Strikes or Gambits and trades out his normal Warleader ability for the Vizier's Seer Path ability to share Veils with allies. Basically grafts the Akasha system onto the Warlord and adds a few unique abilities to represent the blending of the two power sources.
If it weren't for the fact that it definitely steps out of my territory and into Chris', and the fact that I'm still neck deep in the core Akasha stuff, I'd probably write up an entire Akashic Discipline with an associated Organization.
Take notes. Lots of notes. Save them in a special place. We'll talk later, and get the bosses in on it. I'm down if you are. :)
-X
|
Design Manager
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can imagine it now SS.... You get to write a Prestige class to advance Chakras and Maneuvers for a multiclassed Akashic/Disciple... Too sexyTo be honest with you, I already wrote an archetype, I just don't know when/if I'll get to put it into a book.
It's a Warlord archetype where the basic mechanic is that he lacks an Essence pool, but accumulates temporary Essence by successfully landing Strikes or Gambits and trades out his normal Warleader ability for the Vizier's Seer Path ability to share Veils with allies. Basically grafts the Akasha system onto the Warlord and adds a few unique abilities to represent the blending of the two power sources.
If it weren't for the fact that it definitely steps out of my territory and into Chris', and the fact that I'm still neck deep in the core Akasha stuff, I'd probably write up an entire Akashic Discipline with an associated Organization.
Take notes. Lots of notes. Save them in a special place. We'll talk later, and get the bosses in on it. I'm down if you are. :)
-X
Sounds like a plan :)
HUZZAH!!!
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Blending of books = good.
It's got my vote. :)
Hello, everybody!
Two new disciplines - Eternal Guardian and Sleeping Goddess - are rapidly nearing completion (alpha completion, that is). Before their playtests are posted publicly, I'd like to steal a few people to look over them for feedback - finding typos, identifying unclear wording, etc. I'm hoping to pull 1-3 people from each forum (DSP, GitP, and Paizo).
Interested? Shoot me an email at novawurmson at live dot com with "Path of War" and your preferred forum in the subject line.
|
Is this PoW2 definitely going to be published, in PDF at least? Is this because PoW1 is considered a financial success? Just good enough to continue support, or an outright big success? I am surprised to see such so soon.
I bought the PoW1 subscription to show my support towards the demand for a return of the Martial Maneuver system, and that it has a place within the Pathfinder game.
Between PFS disallowing 3PP material, and the lack of a home game, I didn't see a chance to play it those circumstances.
I was also very disappointed with the material I did review. I felt the power level was too strong. I did not even get too much into the maneuvers, I am not complaining about them, at least not till I one day take a much harder look at them. I looked at the gambit system and felt it was a powder keg waiting to explode. As in a GM asking, "Why the hell did I ever allow this?!" I saw the class features and felt they should have been done differently. I felt they should be weakened, and/or adjusted on what level they came on line to not seem way to good when you get them. I feared too many complaints of it being way over powered would drag down the reputation of the Martial Maneuver system. When offering playtest feedback, I appreciated the follow up that it is better to design a tier 3 class that is a solid contribution than a tier 5 class to avoid the complaints about being over powered. Then reading the author's response, I felt the author had already been set in his choices and limited in his willingness to change the work. This led me to feeling the playtest was less about fixing problems and more about previewing the system to get some bites that hopefully lead to sales. I was also flabbergasted that the author confessed he was warned by other designers and/or developers that a Rake system would be negated by players figuring a way out of the negative consequences of the rake, but ignored the warning. Then went on to write a gambit system that did indeed seem way too easy to pick one, or two methods to reap the benefit of while completing ignoring/mitigating the so called risk, or penalty. With one or two of these easy to subvert risk options, all the rest seemed like a waste of time. Who would go for such true risks, with actual worrysome penalties? Today, I am sure with enough players, some would go for the truly dangerous stuff for what ever crazy reason, or because other new material negates the risk. With this bad perception of the system, I felt little interest in continuing to dig deeper into the product I bought.
So I have been out if the loop for a while now. I can happily say though, I found a home group open to Mr playing a swordsage. I will be sharing PoW1 with them and reevaluate it with them. So even as down as I am about what I saw, I am giving it another shot and am glad to see more work is down the line. Even if I disagree with what I saw before, I still promote a return to the use of Martial Maneuvers.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
@ Raymond Lambert
I must confess I have no idea what you're talking about, friend. I've searched this thread and your name only came up once previously, with a remark asking about Tier 5/6 range martial initiators and how you'd like some low power initiators.
The rest of what you're saying here, I'm honestly lost on what you're trying to say here. Everything that you're saying here is just... out of no where. I was told that the old Rake system was a problem; so I changed it. Most everything people have said to me, I feel that I've evenly evaluated and considered and much of it was used to make the project better. I'm a firm believer in crowd-sourcing. But much of what you're saying here Raymond is coming off as incorrect and potentially accusatory about things that are simply not true.
I'm sorry you don't like the product, truly I am. If you want to talk about it more, that's fine, PM me.
-X
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is this PoW2 definitely going to be published, in PDF at least? Is this because PoW1 is considered a financial success? Just good enough to continue support, or an outright big success? I am surprised to see such so soon.
I'm not going to comment on the rest, as I leave that up to Chris as the project lead :) But as for this question - the answer is yes.
Is Path of War a smashing, over-the-moon success? Not yet - but I expect that when the compiled book is released, it will be a strong success. It's been successful enough that we were happy to green light the second book based on the early returns of the first book, especially as Chris is taking all the feedback (even the at-times harsh criticism) and incorporating needed changes into the book before we release it (hence a work-in-progress instead of a release with errata.)
Softcovers of both PoW1 and PoW2 will definitely be available - it's very easy to make softcovers available.
Hardcover is, well, a headache, carry a higher price tag, and I wouldn't want a hardcover unless the production quality was sufficient, so a HARDCOVER is still very much an unknown, although I would say it's more likely than not.
|
Design Manager
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@ Raymond Lambert
I must confess I have no idea what you're talking about, friend. I've searched this thread and your name only came up once previously, with a remark asking about Tier 5/6 range martial initiators and how you'd like some low power initiators.
The rest of what you're saying here, I'm honestly lost on what you're trying to say here. Everything that you're saying here is just... out of no where. I was told that the old Rake system was a problem; so I changed it. Most everything people have said to me, I feel that I've evenly evaluated and considered and much of it was used to make the project better. I'm a firm believer in crowd-sourcing. But much of what you're saying here Raymond is coming off as incorrect and potentially accusatory about things that are simply not true.
I'm sorry you don't like the product, truly I am. If you want to talk about it more, that's fine, PM me.
-X
Having seen Chris flat out replace some of his mechanics with things that myself and others have suggested in this thread, I can say that he definitely was not already set on what everything was going to be, and was very open to suggestions.
Having done a lot of playtesting myself, and having read the playtest results of other forum goers, I also don't think the materials presented are OP. They do have a very low optimization threshold; that is, it doesn't take as much system mastery to make a good one. The difference between an optimized monk built by a player with high system mastery and a non-optimized monk built by a new player is tremendous; the difference (at least as far as DPR, defenses, and ability to contribute) between an optimized initiator built by a player with high system mastery and a non-optimized initiator built by a new player is surprisingly narrow. The initiators are certainly going to perform better than the non-optimized monk, but a well optimized monk will still have an edge on non-optimized initiators, and the classes that they (the Path of War classes) were balanced against, the magus, cavalier, bard, ninja, and inquisitor, will all stack up well at both ends of the spectrum.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm also going to come to the defense of Chris "Errant X" Bennett and say that he has ben incredibly responsive to feedback from testers here. When I decided to test these classes in comparison to MAgus because that's where I wanted the power level to be.
I can't play fighters anymore. They bore me. They don't do enough and they make enough of an impact. Magus is where I wanted to see these classes end up. They generally ended up a little lower than that against some of the most dangerous opponents.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can't say anything that hasn't been stated by someone better at speaking than I am, but I agree that ErrantX has been very malleable in his response to criticism.
|
Design Manager
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm going to threadjack a little bit here on the thin pretense of a related subject.
Both Andreas and Jeremy have given the go-ahead for some Akashic/Initiator cross-over materials.
Due to the issues with Dropbox and the change in the naming convention, I'm going to be starting a new thread later this evening for the MoI port, using the new project title, Akashic Mysteries.
When I post that up, I'll be adding the Warlord archetype I've already done to the archetypes playtest link. Note that the playability of this archetype will assume you have access to the Warlord .pdf as I won't be reposting all of the disciplines.
I reached out to Chris to let him know that I'd like to get his input on the Veillord archetype (not the final name), and we're going to put our heads together at some point when we have time to see what else we can whip up for you guys, and which project it will fit best in.
I just want to stress that I'm going to be trying very hard not to butt in too much on Chris' project, so whether or not any Akashic materials make it into any Path of War products is 100% his decision, but I'll definitely have at least one archetype and some feat support for initiators added to the Akashic Mysteries releases, and possibly some Veils intended specifically to augment initiators. If you've seen the new Guru Veils I released that have expanded effects for psions who follow particular disciplines, you'll have a pretty good idea of the format I'll be using. Useful for anyone, but particularly good if you have the corresponding ability. I'm still debating whether to make the Veils class or discipline focused, so run that through your heads for a bit and I'll ask for your feedback once I get the new thread up.
Thanks all!
The disciples of the martial tradition known as the Knights of the Black Thorn have their discipline now, the discipline known as Black Seraph, and it is available for playtest and review. Enjoy!
-X
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
After some messing around with the Warder Supplemental content stuff (I haven't had a chance to use them in game, just making characters and some theory crafting) I really got to hand it you. The dervish, Hawkguard, and Zweihander Sentinel are absolutely wonderful at giving options to the Warder. Between the base class and the archetypes all playstyles I can think of for a "protector" are covered. The Warder succeeds at being both effective and mutable, so maximum kudos!
|
Design Manager
|
This forum seems determined to make me double-post no matter whose thread I'm talking shop in....
The Veil Lord archetype is available in the Akashic Archetypes document. You can find the link in the OP here.
Let me know what you think. I'm also taking suggestions for names, because I feel like this one is just terrible. Unfortunately I've been covering for four other treasury banking reps in 3 states for the last week due to a combination of vacations, retirements, and family emergencies, so my brain is fighting me for every scrap of inspiration and creativity I try to ring out of it after making it work all day.
To anyone out there is playtesting / playing / examining Black Seraph and Silver Crane, any feedback I could get on these would be best sooner than later. These two disciplines will be finding their way into PoW1 and we'd like to get them to Jeremy ASAP :)
-X
This is probably a dumb question, but here it is anyway. Was there a beta version of the stalker of warder playtests? I can only find alphas. Secondly was version 1.0 the last one for the warlord before it was released for sale. It still has "rakes" The classes do look awesome and fun even in these earlier forms.
Thank you for your help and a huge thank you to Chris and all other's who worked/are working on this and all the people playtesting. I hope to join your ranks soon.
I find myself with yet more questions!
By my reading, deadly agility works with some throw weapons, namely rashers and shuriken (light weapon, uses ztr for damage, DA swapa it to dex for dmg. Is this correct, as this kind of effect usually has a range limit, and if so, is this intentional?
The second is for gambits, how long do you have to succeed? Does the next attenmpt that turn have to succeed, or do I have until tje end of the he round? For example, the gambit which requires you to hit an enemy which is in melee. Let's say that I have point blank, precise and rapid shot feats. If I trigger the gambit, and then make a full attack, do I get the cha bonus to hit on both attacks? If the first shot misses, do I suffer the rake on the second shot? If the second shot hits after the first shot misses, do I still gain the benefit of the gambit?
(PoW has been great fun so far, btw, kudos)
This is probably a dumb question, but here it is anyway. Was there a beta version of the stalker of warder playtests? I can only find alphas. Secondly was version 1.0 the last one for the warlord before it was released for sale. It still has "rakes" The classes do look awesome and fun even in these earlier forms.
Thank you for your help and a huge thank you to Chris and all other's who worked/are working on this and all the people playtesting. I hope to join your ranks soon.
The versions that are available for free are -not- the final versions, to be sure, and a lot of changes have been made from feedback from the retail run of the classes (which were sort of the beta?). The final version is going to incorporate all of these changes. Rakes are still a thing, but it's just a universal rake (enjoy only getting 1 maneuver back and -2 to your rolls for a round).
I find myself with yet more questions!
By my reading, deadly agility works with some throw weapons, namely rashers and shuriken (light weapon, uses ztr for damage, DA swapa it to dex for dmg. Is this correct, as this kind of effect usually has a range limit, and if so, is this intentional?
The second is for gambits, how long do you have to succeed? Does the next attenmpt that turn have to succeed, or do I have until tje end of the he round? For example, the gambit which requires you to hit an enemy which is in melee. Let's say that I have point blank, precise and rapid shot feats. If I trigger the gambit, and then make a full attack, do I get the cha bonus to hit on both attacks? If the first shot misses, do I suffer the rake on the second shot? If the second shot hits after the first shot misses, do I still gain the benefit of the gambit?
(PoW has been great fun so far, btw, kudos)
So, here's Deadly Agility:
Deadly Agility [Combat]
You have learned how to use your agility to greater purpose in battle.
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You may add your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier when wielding a light weapon or a weapon that gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat (such as the rapier) when determining additional damage inflicted upon a successful attack. This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is not reduced for off-hand weapons.
So, my thought is, is that it only applies to weapons that gain benefits from Weapon Finesse. Thrown weapons don't get that benefit, nor do ranged weapons. Now take a starknife; it is a light weapon in melee (so it can get the benefits of Deadly Agility and Weapon Finesse), but when it's thrown, it takes on the characteristics of a thrown weapon which are entirely different. So... Deadly Agility has no bearing on ranged. I hope that answers your first question.
For Gambits, you need to succeed on the gambit on the round its initiated on, so if you make a full attack with a Pinhole Gambit, you need to hit with one of those shots and all the attacks get the benefit of the gambit. Great at lower level for warlord archers, but maneuvers will quickly become more regularly used for this gambit (and gambits like it).
Hope that answers it! :)
Thanks both of you for the praise and encouragement :)
-X
The versions that are available for free are -not- the final versions, to be sure, and a lot of changes have been made from feedback from the retail run of the classes (which were sort of the beta?). The final version is going to incorporate all of these changes. Rakes are still a thing, but it's just a universal rake (enjoy only getting 1 maneuver back and -2 to your rolls for a round).This is probably a dumb question, but here it is anyway. Was there a beta version of the stalker of warder playtests? I can only find alphas. Secondly was version 1.0 the last one for the warlord before it was released for sale. It still has "rakes" The classes do look awesome and fun even in these earlier forms.
Thank you for your help and a huge thank you to Chris and all other's who worked/are working on this and all the people playtesting. I hope to join your ranks soon.
Thank you for your response. It seems, that the version I am using is the latest free version. I am tempted to grab the pdf but might wait until everything is released.
Thank you for your response. It seems, that the version I am using is the latest free version. I am tempted to grab the pdf but might wait until everything is released.The versions that are available for free are -not- the final versions, to be sure, and a lot of changes have been made from feedback from the retail run of the classes (which were sort of the beta?). The final version is going to incorporate all of these changes. Rakes are still a thing, but it's just a universal rake (enjoy only getting 1 maneuver back and -2 to your rolls for a round).This is probably a dumb question, but here it is anyway. Was there a beta version of the stalker of warder playtests? I can only find alphas. Secondly was version 1.0 the last one for the warlord before it was released for sale. It still has "rakes" The classes do look awesome and fun even in these earlier forms.
Thank you for your help and a huge thank you to Chris and all other's who worked/are working on this and all the people playtesting. I hope to join your ranks soon.
If you get the subscription / work-in-progress, you get all the serialized parts AND the final release. All for the price of the final release. Just saying. :)
I think remember it being said that PoW 2 was going to have 3 full new base classes in addition to the Warlord, Warder, and Stalker. I know of the Harbinger, what are the other 2 (or have they not been announced yet)?
3 more base classes really? I've definitely seen the harby and a few archetypes to go with it, a few new schools/disciplines, as well as a probably a few PrCs (When I asked about a Martial/Psionic PRC, it was mentioned it wouldn't make it into the first book). I haven't seen anything about another class recently. I'd be interested to know what the others would be too.
Am curious, would Battle Templar Ordained Knight ability scale for Domains, Inquisitions, Judgements, mysteries, curses, (all scaling abilities from divine classes or just the specific ones listed)?
Also Sheperd of the flock, being a deflection bonus gets a bit obsoleted later in the game when rings of protection catch up, is this intentional?
I still had these questions from a page or two back.
@Skylancer the new classes are Blade Mystic, Harbinger, and Zealot (the post I got these from said these names may not be final)
Also the Zealot uses Psionic, not Divine power in case you were wondering. It's also full BAB and keys off Cha according to the most recent info.
This looks like a question for the PoW 2 design lead. Now where is that lazy bas-
Oh, right. That's me. Nothing to see here.
The Blade Mystic channels his native, but highly unstable, arcane energies through their swordplay. Not quite spells, but more than normal fighting techniques, the Blade Mystic enhances his allies and and strikes down his enemies with flame and frost. Their key initiation modifier is Wisdom, relying on perception, intuition, and the iron will needed to keep a lid on the dangerous energies within.
The Harbinger draws strength from sorrow and loss - anger, depression, fury, greed, grief, and other negative emotions are poured out into their supernatural curses and demonic speed. Harbingers control the battlefield with supreme mobility and malicious debuffs that visit upon their foes a fraction of the sorrow in the Harbinger's own heart. Their key initiation modifier is Intelligence, relying on dark secrets, enlightened understanding, and eldritch symbolism.
The Zealot combines swordplay with psionic potential, creating a seamless whole that drives them to acts of stunning violence. Zealots protect their allies by punishing enemies, laying down the law with psionic maneuvers and triggered curses. Their key initiation modifier is Charisma, drawing on their passion, the strength of their emotions, and their sheer ability to bludgeon you to death with their minds.
So ToB/PoW seems to have many parallels to the Wheel of Time series, from the spiffy named fighting maneuvers to the Warder class itself. I was wondering if we are going to get any other references in homage to WoT, such as a Blademaster PrC or a Heron-Mark Sword magic item?
This looks like a question for the PoW 2 design lead. Now where is that lazy bas-
Oh, right. That's me. Nothing to see here.
The Blade Mystic channels his native, but highly unstable, arcane energies through their swordplay. Not quite spells, but more than normal fighting techniques, the Blade Mystic enhances his allies and and strikes down his enemies with flame and frost. Their key initiation modifier is Wisdom, relying on perception, intuition, and the iron will needed to keep a lid on the dangerous energies within.
The Harbinger draws strength from sorrow and loss - anger, depression, fury, greed, grief, and other negative emotions are poured out into their supernatural curses and demonic speed. Harbingers control the battlefield with supreme mobility and malicious debuffs that visit upon their foes a fraction of the sorrow in the Harbinger's own heart. Their key initiation modifier is Intelligence, relying on dark secrets, enlightened understanding, and eldritch symbolism.
The Zealot combines swordplay with psionic potential, creating a seamless whole that drives them to acts of stunning violence. Zealots protect their allies by punishing enemies, laying down the law with psionic maneuvers and triggered curses. Their key initiation modifier is Charisma, drawing on their passion, the strength of their emotions, and their sheer ability to bludgeon you to death with their minds.
Thanks for the reply PoK. :)
Interesting that the Blade Mystic uses wisdom as its key stat, given the heavy ties to Int and Cha that arcane magic has and that no arcane class uses it. Honestly, if you hadn't told me their key stats in the write up, just based on their flavor I would have thought the Blade Mystic uses Intelligence, the Harbinger uses Charisma, and the Zealot uses Wisdom. At least thats the feeling Im picking up anyway...and Harbinger just flat out screams Charisma to me. Otherwise they all sound like very intriguing classes, I look forward to seeing more.
So, my thought is, is that it only applies to weapons that gain benefits from Weapon Finesse. Thrown weapons don't get that benefit, nor do ranged weapons. Now take a starknife; it is a light weapon in melee (so it can get the benefits of Deadly Agility and Weapon Finesse), but when it's thrown, it takes on the characteristics of a thrown weapon which are entirely different. So... Deadly Agility has no bearing on ranged. I hope that answers your first question.
For Gambits, you need to succeed on the gambit on the round its initiated on, so if you make a full attack with a Pinhole Gambit, you need to hit with one of those shots and all the attacks get the benefit of the gambit. Great at lower level for warlord archers, but maneuvers will quickly become more regularly used for this gambit (and gambits like it).
Not how I would have read deadly agility to be honest, but the gambit thing makes sense, so thanks for the clarification!
This looks like a question for the PoW 2 design lead. Now where is that lazy bas-
Oh, right. That's me. Nothing to see here.
The Blade Mystic channels his native, but highly unstable, arcane energies through their swordplay. Not quite spells, but more than normal fighting techniques, the Blade Mystic enhances his allies and and strikes down his enemies with flame and frost. Their key initiation modifier is Wisdom, relying on perception, intuition, and the iron will needed to keep a lid on the dangerous energies within.
The Harbinger draws strength from sorrow and loss - anger, depression, fury, greed, grief, and other negative emotions are poured out into their supernatural curses and demonic speed. Harbingers control the battlefield with supreme mobility and malicious debuffs that visit upon their foes a fraction of the sorrow in the Harbinger's own heart. Their key initiation modifier is Intelligence, relying on dark secrets, enlightened understanding, and eldritch symbolism.
The Zealot combines swordplay with psionic potential, creating a seamless whole that drives them to acts of stunning violence. Zealots protect their allies by punishing enemies, laying down the law with psionic maneuvers and triggered curses. Their key initiation modifier is Charisma, drawing on their passion, the strength of their emotions, and their sheer ability to bludgeon you to death with their minds.
Thanks for the reply PoK. :)
Interesting that the Blade Mystic uses wisdom as its key stat, given the heavy ties to Int and Cha that arcane magic has and that no arcane class uses it. Honestly, if you hadn't told me their key stats in the write up, just based on their flavor I would have thought the Blade Mystic uses Intelligence, the Harbinger uses Charisma, and the Zealot uses Wisdom. At least thats the feeling Im picking up anyway...and Harbinger just flat out screams Charisma to me. Otherwise they all sound like very intriguing...
This actually came up on DSP's board! Let me quote my response:
Aaah - I was wondering when I'd get this question.
There's a lot of reasons I keyed Harbinger to Intelligence. A part of it, maybe a very big part, is the legacy from which Harbinger arises. European witches, demonic entities, cannibal hags, beings like Koschei the Deathless - they all have in common this theme of knowing things, of holding onto terrible wisdom which they bend to their own will. Harbingers are the inheritors of that grim knowledge, the heralds of pain, and though they fight on the front lines their tool and weapon is still knowing.
Which is really where we get into the emotional aspect. A Harbinger does not channel her raw emotions, and her power is not based on the strength of those emotions. It comes from understanding, accepting, and to an extent embracing fear, sorrow, loss, grief, anger, hate, despair, and powerlessness. Harbingers have had their lives shaped by the worst the world has to offer but remain alive, and they translate that pain into strength by looking at the lessons their wounds have taught them, not by bleeding upon their enemies. They approach it intellectually, with an attitude of self-improvement, of dealing with their emotions somehow.
You can see that, or at least you will, with the iconic Harbinger - Kestrel of Asheholm. She and her sister both became Harbingers of very different stripes. Kestrel draws her strength from sorrow, and more importantly from her need to prevent such sorrow in others; Kestrel meditates on grief and how it's shaped her as a sapient being and uses its power in her swordplay. Her sister Jewel, on the other hand, has chosen to embrace fury at the injustices done to them both; for Jewel, the appropriate reaction to injustice is revenge, and she dwells and meditates not only on the nature of vengeance, but in how she can express it in her life.
Either way, force of personality, of self-identity, isn't the crux of the issue. Charisma relates to the self - self-identity, self-motivation, self-confidence. Harbingers do not need these things; their focus is on a universal constant, on the role that suffering and devastation plays in their lives and the lives of others. That comprehension leads them to the secrets of power.
I hope that made sense 'cause I'm not sure it did >.>
This looks like a question for the PoW 2 design lead. Now where is that lazy bas-
Oh, right. That's me. Nothing to see here.
The Blade Mystic channels his native, but highly unstable, arcane energies through their swordplay. Not quite spells, but more than normal fighting techniques, the Blade Mystic enhances his allies and and strikes down his enemies with flame and frost. Their key initiation modifier is Wisdom, relying on perception, intuition, and the iron will needed to keep a lid on the dangerous energies within.
The Harbinger draws strength from sorrow and loss - anger, depression, fury, greed, grief, and other negative emotions are poured out into their supernatural curses and demonic speed. Harbingers control the battlefield with supreme mobility and malicious debuffs that visit upon their foes a fraction of the sorrow in the Harbinger's own heart. Their key initiation modifier is Intelligence, relying on dark secrets, enlightened understanding, and eldritch symbolism.
The Zealot combines swordplay with psionic potential, creating a seamless whole that drives them to acts of stunning violence. Zealots protect their allies by punishing enemies, laying down the law with psionic maneuvers and triggered curses. Their key initiation modifier is Charisma, drawing on their passion, the strength of their emotions, and their sheer ability to bludgeon you to death with their minds.
Thanks for the reply PoK. :)
Interesting that the Blade Mystic uses wisdom as its key stat, given the heavy ties to Int and Cha that arcane magic has and that no arcane class uses it. Honestly, if you hadn't told me their key stats in the write up, just based on their flavor I would have thought the Blade Mystic uses Intelligence, the Harbinger uses Charisma, and the Zealot uses Wisdom. At least thats the feeling Im picking up anyway...and Harbinger just flat out screams Charisma to me. Otherwise they all sound like very intriguing...
I'll pipe up on the Blade Mystic as that's my brainchild. Mystic is Wisdom and here is why: Firstly, they are inheritors of a mystical (or psychic as I will have a psi-mystic archetype as well) power source / legacy that boils within their very form. This power is so deep and unformed that it can't easily be expressed in more complicated forms as magic but it is there, and it happens. It's primitive structure is very base and set in to basic elements, and the mystic learns to express this through intuition and introspection. By listening to this energy and listening to this primal magic, they are able to express it through shows of elemental affinity to form the rawest structures of magical energy, nothing like a spell, and they shape this energy through martial forms to sort of add method to the madness, to tame and control it into a usable form (this is through disciplines such as Riven Hourglass, Veiled Moon, and the new discipline Elemental Flux). They will express other aspects of this power through various elemental and mystical runes that they can use to provide buffs and debuffs to allies and foes. Their martial expressions of this primal power is how they release this energy and how they are able to form these rune structures. The study of oneself, introspection, meditations to delve deep into the self, and sheer intuition needed to master it, it just always spoke to me as a Wisdom class.
-X
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
After reading it I really like the descriptions of how the Harbringer and Blade Mystic learn about and channel their power! You guys really put a lot of thought into it and I thank you guys for that!
Salute!
After reading the names I recognized them... Entirely too late to be allowing myself to post, apparently the brain and was not functioning! Thanks for the "reminder"!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I now present the very first archetype I've ever designed, our first Path of War 2 archetype, and the first-ever archetype for the Harbinger class, the Crimson Countess!
Crimson Claim (Su): Each round, at the beginning of her turn, creatures Claimed by the Crimson Countess suffer 1d4 points of untyped damage. This increases to 2d4 at 4th level, 3d4 at 8th level, 4d4 at 12th level, and a maximum of 5d4 at 16th level. This ability replaces Ill Tidings.
Sanguine Empowerment (Su): At 2nd level, the Crimson Countess develops the ability to gain and store Vitae. Each round, at the beginning of her turn, the Crimson Countess gains Vitae points equal to the number of creatures she has Claimed. She may store a number of Vitae points equal to her class level plus her Intelligence modifier, and loses 2 Vitae per minute.
The Crimson Countess gains an insight bonus equal to ½ her current number of Vitae points on attack and damage rolls made as part of maneuvers (this bonus increases by 2 when initiating maneuvers against Claimed creatures). Furthermore, she may expend her Vitae to utilize other abilities and benefits, as described below:
Drain - The Crimson Countess may spend 1 point of Vitae as a move action to deal untyped damage equal to her class level to creatures she has Claimed. The Crimson Countess may spend an additional 1 point of Vitae when activating this ability; if she does, she heals 1d6 hp per creature she has Claimed.
Recover - Starting at 6th level, the Crimson Countess may spend 2 points of Vitae as a move action to recover one of her expended boosts or counters.
Sacrifice – Starting at 10th level, once per encounter, the Crimson Countess may spend 6 points of Vitae as an immediate action when she is dealt ability damage or damage to her hit points. If she does, she chooses a creature she has Claimed; that creature suffers the damage instead of the Crimson Countess.
Sovereignty– Starting at 14th level, the Crimson Countess may spend 5 points of Vitae as a standard action. When she does, creatures she has Claimed must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the Crimson Countess’s class level + her Intelligence modifier) or be teleported to a space of the Countess’s choice within 60 feet of the Countess. Spaces that are intrinsically dangerous (such as those filled with lava, or spaces in the air if the creature does not fly) may not be chosen.
Exsanguinate – Starting at 20th level, the Crimson Countess may spend 10 points of Vitae as a standard action and choose a creature she has Claimed. That creature must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the Crimson Countess’s class level + her Intelligence modifier) or die; success on this save indicates that the creature instead suffers 13d6 points of untyped damage. If the victim of this ability dies, the Crimson Countess heals a number of hp equal to ½ its full maximum total.
This ability replaces Dark Focus.
Grim News (Su): Starting at 3rd level, the Crimson Countess may move up to her speed as a swift action once per encounter. This increases to twice per encounter at 9th level and three times per encounter at 15th level.
At 9th level, the Crimson Countess may transform herself and all of her worn and carried items into a (5 ft. per class level) radius pool of blood or back to her natural form as a swift action. While in pool form, she gains a number of benefits and drawbacks:
- Immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
- 10 ft. climb speed
- May pour herself through any opening that is not watertight
- Creatures may share the Crimson Countess’s space while she is in pool form. Neither the Countess nor these creatures gain any benefit or penalty from sharing the same space.
- Does not threaten an area and cannot make attacks of opportunity.
- Cannot make melee or ranged attacks (and cannot initiate maneuvers that require them).
- Loses 1 Vitae per round instead of 2 per minute.
At 15th level, the Crimson Countess gains the following additional or modified traits while in pool form:
- Fast healing equal to her Intelligence modifier
- Tentacle natural attack that deals 1d6 damage; this permits the Crimson Countess to make melee attacks with the tentacle (and initiate maneuvers that require melee attacks), but the Crimson Countess may only attack creatures within the area of her pool form with this natural attack.
- Loses 1 Vitae every 2 rounds instead of 2 per minute.
This ability modifies Grim News.
Crimson Countess is still under internal review, which has produced the following objections:
1. The initial damage should be bleed damage, and perhaps make a note that even creatures normally immune to bleed still bleed.
2. Vitae is WAY too complex, it needs to go down in complexity. How much you gain, how much you loose.
3. PF doesn't use "untyped" as a damage type.
4. You didn't rename Grim News.
Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!
|
Design Manager
|
Right off the bat:
1) It's weird to have a gender specific name for an archetype. Consider something more gender neutral.
2) It should probably be bleed damage, and it probably shouldn't affect creatures normally immune to bleed damage.
3) She should gain a point of Vitae each time a creature takes damage due to Crimson Claim instead of on her turn. This would prevent her from gaining vital essence from creatures that aren't providing vital essence, and it would also stagger her Vitae gain more so that there's more of a resource management factor instead of just huge lumps of Vitae at the start of every round that she can immediately start spending on her best abilities.
4) Sacrifice is bonkers and needs to give the victim a save, otherwise you're going to have things like the party wizard intentionally targeting you with spells like touch of idiocy or ray of enfeeblement so you can bounce the effects to a claimed target without having to deal with things like SR, saving throws, protective spells, etc.
Bleed damage makes sense for sure.
And now for the second - and currently final - Harbinger archetype!
Dark Messenger (Ex): The Ravenlord is served by a raven-like bird which obeys him, known as his Dark Messenger. The Ravenlord treats his Dark Messenger as a bird animal companion (the Ravenlord’s effective druid level is equal to his class level for the purposes of advancing the Dark Messenger), with the following exceptions:
- The Dark Messenger’s Intelligence score is equal to its master’s.
- The Dark Messenger always acts on the same initiative count as its master.
- The Ravenlord may communicate telepathically with his Dark Messenger, provided the two are within one mile of each other. The Dark Messenger always obeys the Ravenlord’s orders to the best of its ability and will exercise its own initiative to promote the Ravenlord’s interests and safety.
- When slain, the Dark Messenger deals 1d6 points of Constitution damage to the Ravenlord, then re-forms 24 hours later, reappearing on its master’s shoulder at full hit points.
- The Dark Messenger does not gain bonus tricks or the benefits of the Share Spells ability.
This ability replaces Ill Tidings.
Dark Focus (Ex): At 2nd level, the Ravenlord’s Dark Messenger gains the benefits of his Dark Focus ability (in the disciplines he has chosen), with the exception of the bonus feat gained at 6th level.
This ability modifies Dark Focus.
Channel of Woe (Su): At 3rd level, the Ravenlord’s Dark Messenger gains the ability to initiate counters and strikes that the Ravenlord has readied. The Dark Messenger’s initiator level is equal to the Ravenlord’s; its initiation modifier is Intelligence. Only either the Ravenlord or the Dark Messenger may initiate a strike in the same round (that is, if the Dark Messenger initiates a strike, the Ravenlord may not initiate a strike in the same round, and vice versa). When either the Ravenlord or his Dark Messenger initiates a strike, the other being generates a 10 ft. radius sphere known as a Gloom around themselves; this Gloom is stationary, lasts for 1 round, and grants partial concealment to the creature that generated it so long as that creature is within its area.
At 3rd level, hostile creatures within the Gloom are cursed and suffer a -2 penalty on skill checks and Reflex saves.
At 9th level, hostile creatures within the Gloom also suffer a -4 penalty to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls.
At 15th level, hostile creatures within the Gloom also suffer a -2 penalty to Fortitude and Will saves, and may not make attacks of opportunity while within the Gloom.
This ability replaces Grim News.
Sorrow’s Shadow (Su): At 4th level, the Dark Messenger’s type changes to magical beast; increase its hit dice to d10 and recalculate its hit points. Do not recalculate its base attack bonus, saving throws, or skills. Once per turn, as a free action, the Dark Messenger may increase its size to Medium or revert to its natural size. This increases to Large at 10th level, and Huge at 16th level.
This ability replaces Massacre.
Unwanted Missive (Su): At 11th level, once per encounter as an immediate action, the Ravenlord may exchange places with its Dark Messenger, provided both are within long (400 ft. plus 40 ft. per initiator level) range of each other. If this is used in response to one or more abilities or attacks that target the Ravenlord or the Dark Messenger or include them in an area of effect, each becomes the potential target or victim of the abilities or attacks that targeted the other (for example, the Dark Messenger is targeted by a magic missile and the Ravenlord is targeted by a charge attack. The Ravenlord activates this ability and exchanges places with his Dark Messenger. The Ravenlord is now the target of the magic missile, while the Dark Messenger is the target of the charge attack). This is a teleportation effect, and if either the Ravenlord or the Dark Messenger are prevented from teleporting for any reason the ability fails and its use for the encounter is expended. At 17th level, the Ravenlord may use this ability twice per encounter.
This ability replaces Black Omen and Rumors of War
Memories of Loss (Su): At 13th level, the Gloom generated by the Ravenlord’s Channel of Woe ability lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier. Additionally, hostile creatures within the Gloom become incapable of benefitting from insight or morale bonuses.
This ability replaces Tenebrous Reach.
Whispers of Atrocity (Su): At 19th level, maneuvers initiated by the Ravenlord or his Dark Messenger ignore any and all immunities possessed by their victims.
This ability modifies Whispers of Atrocity.
|
Design Manager
|
Ravenlord-
Sorrow's Shadow is weird. It works differently than other abilities that have similar effects, which generally just change the creature's type for determining what spells and abilities can affect it, and increasing hit die and nothing else is not only wonky, but it deviates from standard design paradigms regarding the correlation between hit die and BAB. I'd suggest reconsidering this ability. Maybe create a custom template and have the ability more closely mimic Celestial Servant.
Unwanted Missive - Again, this is a weird ability. Pathfinder is a turn-based game so the example of the Messenger and the Ravenlord being targeted by two separate abilities simultaneously just isn't something that's going to happen, the exception being some weird circumstance like a Magus riding a mount that's charging the Ravenlord while simultaneously targeting the bird with magic missile, since that's about the only in-game scenario where a charge and a separate spell could both be occuring in a timeframe where they could be impacted by the same immediate action. Probably easier to just leave the basic framework of the ability as is and note that if the Ravenlord and the Messenger teleport to try and escape an AoE, they'll both still take the effects if they were both in the spell's area of effect to begin with.
Whispers of Atrocity- Ummmm..... Dude. This is bonkers. And way too all-encompassing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been a silent lurker on this thread for a while now, but want to throw in a vote of support and confidence! I was a big fan of ToB when it came out, and this project has totally resparked my interest in the maneuver system. I don't have the time to playtest or proofread, but I wish I could help out! Either way, this is on my *must buy* list for when it gets the green light...
Question for DSP (apologies if this got answered already), but does the Work in Progress bundle include the POW2 items?
I've been a silent lurker on this thread for a while now, but want to throw in a vote of support and confidence! I was a big fan of ToB when it came out, and this project has totally resparked my interest in the maneuver system. I don't have the time to playtest or proofread, but I wish I could help out! Either way, this is on my *must buy* list for when it gets the green light...
Question for DSP (apologies if this got answered already), but does the Work in Progress bundle include the POW2 items?
The current item on the DSP store is for PoW1 only. PoW2 will be a separate purchase.