Do remind me to post this vignette I've been working on sometime, though, about an Erinyes Warder paying back a life debt.
Yes please!
I can't really say one way or another; Black Seraph isn't my baby.
Cursed Razor is my baby.
Just popping in to say that formatting on the Stalker release is probably around 75% completed.
I've got about 12 pages to go.
Tentative release date for it is next week.
Huzzah!!
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I can't really say one way or another; Black Seraph isn't my baby.
Cursed Razor is my baby.
Does that mean it's Chris' baby? Chris, we need to talk about your baby man. A little Search Replace to change melee to weapon would go a long way towards helping me stat up Lithandri, Lady of the Black Wing, my LE elven Warlord for Way of the Wicked who I just made up.
I need to be able smite those foolish Lawful Goodies with arrows of fire and corruption, and the more I do that without house-ruling things the easier it is to walk away from open soda cans and trust they're safe when I come back.
I've got a lot of children in this book :P
Black Seraph is actually built off of the very first discipline I ever wrote, so it's kinda like my eldest child I guess.
That being said... maybe I can find a way to put some range in there. Black Seraph wasn't initially designed as such, but I might give it the Golden Lion treatment and allow it when applicable.
-X
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I've got a lot of children in this book :P
Black Seraph is actually built off of the very first discipline I ever wrote, so it's kinda like my eldest child I guess.
That being said... maybe I can find a way to put some range in there. Black Seraph wasn't initially designed as such, but I might give it the Golden Lion treatment and allow it when applicable.
-X
I knew there was a reason I liked you guys.
:)
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Chris,
I saw you liked my post about creating an archetype for multiple martial classes to take Orders and gain maneuvers, and now you don't like it anymore. Is this because I asked you to give your baby a face-lift? I'm sorry, Chris I just like shooting stuff, that's all. I wasn't trying to insult your baby!
;)
Nah, must've accidentally unclicked it when my young son highjacked my mouse when I wasn't looking.
I've got some ideas that are similar to yours regarding a more universal archetype, but it's still pretty different. Stay tuned.
-X
I've got a lot of children in this book :P
Black Seraph is actually built off of the very first discipline I ever wrote, so it's kinda like my eldest child I guess.
That being said... maybe I can find a way to put some range in there. Black Seraph wasn't initially designed as such, but I might give it the Golden Lion treatment and allow it when applicable.
-X
Eeeeeeeeexcellent. *steeples fingers*
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New Warder archetypes available. Go check em out!
-X
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New Warder archetypes available. Go check em out!
-X
Are these really new? Most of them just look like trimmed down and renamed versions of the archetypes we've already seen. I like the Zweihander build.
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Are these really new? Most of them just look like trimmed down and renamed versions of the archetypes we've already seen. I like the Zweihander build.New Warder archetypes available. Go check em out!
-X
Yes, there is differences in the way some rules are written, and some things are distinctly different. Take a closer peak at em. :)
As far as v2 for orgs, they're on the same thread.
-X
So any feedback on the warder archetypes? I've gotten a little on GitP and I was curious if you all had any thoughts on the matter! :)
I'm finishing up the stalker ones and fixing some pre-layout stuff with warder and warlord before I resubmit those and get warlord archetypes finished. Piercing Lance will be making its combat as part of the Warlord archetypes, after a lot of thought it makes more sense there.
-X
So will there eventually be a book to collect all of this plus any further support material into a massive beautiful full color hardcover with WAR cover art, ala Ultimate Psionics, either with or without a Kickstarter?
I am definitely in support of all the material, but I absolutely love the complete nature of such products.
I will say yes, these will be collected and composed into a book ala Psionics Unleashed, and potentially a second book ala Psionics Expanded. If these go well? Sky's the limit! The more people want this, the more they will let me write.
-X
Also, just wanted to throw my humble two cents in on something, I think Warlord and Warder sound too alike. Warder is definitely better than Knight though. I dont really know what to suggest, maybe Marshal instead of Warlord. Tactician could have worked instead of Warder if it hadnt already been used in the psionics material.
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I'm sorry I haven't been around lately. Work's been killing me and a bunch of other depressingly real life things have kept me away. I'm getting back up to speed. Let's talk about Warder Archetypes. Because they aren't that good.
They're in large part just watered down versions of the orders. Believe me, if people don't like the fluff of the order they'll ignore it and take it anyway because they're all better than these poor cousins. Unless the Warder Orders went away and I missed it, all of these except the Satellitium should be scrapped in favor of new ideas.
On the Satellitium. I'm glad that wards came back (as you said they would). The name "satellitium" is awful, though. It sounds like James Cameron's made up element "unobtanium." Custodian? Escort? English must be able to help us here.
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I just wanted to drop by and share the fact that Path of War: Stalker is hitting the stores tomorrow! Looking forward to this first of many releases.
(Pro tip: Get the sub, insanely good value!)
I'm sorry I haven't been around lately. Work's been killing me and a bunch of other depressingly real life things have kept me away. I'm getting back up to speed. Let's talk about Warder Archetypes. Because they aren't that good.
They're in large part just watered down versions of the orders. Believe me, if people don't like the fluff of the order they'll ignore it and take it anyway because they're all better than these poor cousins. Unless the Warder Orders went away and I missed it, all of these except the Satellitium should be scrapped in favor of new ideas.
On the Satellitium. I'm glad that wards came back (as you said they would). The name "satellitium" is awful, though. It sounds like James Cameron's made up element "unobtanium." Custodian? Escort? English must be able to help us here.
Warder Orders are more general organizations now, and the fluff has been divorced from the mechanics, leaving them simply archetypes and the organizations can be applied to anyone who wishes to join them and follows their oath.
As far as saying they're poor cousins... I am boggled by this. They're the same as the old orders just expanded some. I guess I don't follow you here.
Satellitium isn't anything I'm attached to; it means protector however and it is fitting of what it does.
-X
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Not exactly the same. Dervish Defender doesn't have Veiled Moon. Grace of Blades got better but only because Empyrean Training got added to it meaning the Dervish has to wait quite a bit longer before two weapons really pay off for him.
Scarlet lightning is gone in favor of a bit of bonus damage on AoO's and counters. Frankly, that doesn't fit the idea of a good offense being the best defense. It's just being a better defense.
Defender of the Realm is completely gone.
When I google Satelliteium I see astrology nomenclature for several planets forming a symbol.
Not exactly the same. Dervish Defender doesn't have Veiled Moon. Grace of Blades got better but only because Empyrean Training got added to it meaning the Dervish has to wait quite a bit longer before two weapons really pay off for him.
Scarlet lightning is gone in favor of a bit of bonus damage on AoO's and counters. Frankly, that doesn't fit the idea of a good offense being the best defense. It's just being a better defense.
Defender of the Realm is completely gone.
When I google Satelliteium I see astrology nomenclature for several planets forming a symbol.
It didn't make sense for a warder using two-weapons to have knowledge of a mystical discipline that involves the borderlands between planes. Damage bonus got moved as well for the same reason; it was tied to the fluff of the Empyreals and it wasn't focused on helping maneuvers where as this damage bonus is. It could have come online earlier, but I felt that the other class features were more important.
Scarlet Lightning didn't help you use maneuvers or do your job. The replacement two class features make for a stronger character than one with Scarlet Lightning and also helps you use maneuvers and Do Your Job.
Defender of the Realm is gone because Piercing Lance needs to get some re-balancing done on it and because it's tied to the organization, Defenders of the Realm.
I am not tied to a name. I honestly felt it had more flavor than simple Bodyguard or Escort (one reminds me of a terrible movie and the other is a profession some frown on).
-X
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Yeah, I see your points.
I guess the whole new framework feels clunky to me and maybe that's just because I missed the few weeks everyone else got used to it. Whereas before there was interesting fluff that I could use or drop as I want and flavorful archetypes, now there are dull (compared to the previous version only) archetypes and organizations to mix and match. I can see the appeal but I also miss what we once had.
Bought the sub. DSP rocks!
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YuenglingDragon - see all that wonderful fluff, it's in the organisations chapter now. Which means all classes can utilize it. Just like now, all concepts can use the mechanical archetypes to portray what they want, without associated fluff. :)
Also, the first of the books are now available:
Path of War: Stalker
as well as the subscription which gets you all the PDFs:
Path of War: Subscription (atleast 4 PDFs)
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I get that. It just makes the archetypes seem dull by comparison now. I'm still buying the stuff, don't worry.
Edit: Just bought the sub.
Edit 2: Why would anyone select the Deadly Insight Art when you can spend a ki point to do the exact same thing at level 5?
Edit 3: Outer Sphere Stance should probably say that it works when wielding two weapons or a double weapon unless it's not meant to work with a double weapon. The line is kind of confusing. The discipline restriction should already take care of that, right?
Edit 4: Stance of the Ether Gate should probably say "This stance counts as Dimensional Agility for purposes of qualifying for other feats." The way it's worded is a little unclear a definitely not future proof.
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You guys are great at the proof reading mechanics stuff. I'm jealous, but also thankful.
This makes these products better.
So, thanks, guys.
I get that. It just makes the archetypes seem dull by comparison now. I'm still buying the stuff, don't worry.
Edit: Just bought the sub.
Edit 2: Why would anyone select the Deadly Insight Art when you can spend a ki point to do the exact same thing at level 5?
Edit 3: Outer Sphere Stance should probably say that it works when wielding two weapons or a double weapon unless it's not meant to work with a double weapon. The line is kind of confusing. The discipline restriction should already take care of that, right?
Edit 4: Stance of the Ether Gate should probably say "This stance counts as Dimensional Agility for purposes of qualifying for other feats." The way it's worded is a little unclear a definitely not future proof.
1) Well, they were supposed to be made dull in comparison. I was for full separation so you could have a Stalker, Warder, or a Warlord who was also an Empyreal Guardian, at the end of the day.
2) Because they are different. Deadly Insight applies to all attacks made, including standard full attacks and the like, where as the 5th level ki ability only functions with martial strikes.
3) It works with double weapons just fine, and I guess that was just a missed line of text. I'll add that to my errata list for the final compilation.
4) I will also consider that when putting together my errata file.
Brutal Dragon Stance has the same issue as Outer Sphere Stance.
Edit 1: Formless Dance Summary on page 24 (23 by printed number) says "stances" instead of "stance is." It also refers to refreshing images.
Another one for the errata file. *sigh*
Thanks for the catches, Yuengling! You're awesome! :)
-X
Getting the subscription next payday. B]
Warlord archetypes have been uploaded. Sorry I've been largely absent, I'm getting over something and there was some medical drama in my immediate family that needed dealing with. Back on the books!
-X
Grabbed the subscription, and am currently enjoying the heck out of the Stalker. However, I have to ask (only recently started following the Path of War news); will one of the new classes be a Warblade equivalent? A big HD, Strength/Intelligence based frontliner focused on dishing out and taking heavy blows?
Grabbed the subscription, and am currently enjoying the heck out of the Stalker. However, I have to ask (only recently started following the Path of War news); will one of the new classes be a Warblade equivalent? A big HD, Strength/Intelligence based frontliner focused on dishing out and taking heavy blows?
The warlord is a front-line damage-dealing class, but he's STR/CHA focused.
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Nothing here is a direct port of the classes from ToB. However, the Warder or Warlord, possibly with an archetype, should be able to satisfy your Warblade itch.
In other news, I didn't see anything wrong with the Warlord Archetypes. The Vanguard is a little blah, though. There isn't a huge reason to take this instead of the Warder. I'd rather see an archetype that did something different, something inspired.
Because I never got a terrifically clear response on warder archetypes, I made a few changes and updated that.
Lots of updates to the warlord archetypes though.
-X
In other news, I didn't see anything wrong with the Warlord Archetypes. The Vanguard is a little blah, though. There isn't a huge reason to take this instead of the Warder. I'd rather see an archetype that did something different, something inspired.
Any suggestions with "inspired" vanguard fun? I think it holds up just fine and is different enough from the warder that it could stand just fine on its own. But I definitely am open to suggestions.
-X
A Stalker that traded out some class abilities like Deadly Strike, Dual Strike and maybe some of their Stalker Arts for casting from a limited list of shadowy, illusiony spells. Maybe make up a couple spells but I think there'd be plenty to choose from Paizo and maybe some 3PP? Rite Publishing made an awesome Umbral Weaver Bard Archetype that could be used for inspiration.
Soooo, it's a bit late, but thanks for the shout out. Awesome is definitely a nice adjective to hear applied to your work. :-) Those spells are actually from 1001 Spells, but the rest of the archetype is all original. If they went out with the stalker class... I hope you guys had space for the huge S15!
In unrelated news, Cursed Razor and the organization that practices it are just about ready to be released into the wild for testing.
This is, ah, my first discipline.
...Be gentle.
Huzzah!
I only see this now. This is absolutely awesome.
But can I make one humble request: please do not call the power reserve the martial adept classes use "ki". In 3.5 that made the monk look like even more of a loser than he already was, because ki was this one mystic ability he had that was really cool, and then the warblade, swordsage and crusader came along and made his ki use look like that of an absolute beginner.
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I only see this now. This is absolutely awesome.
But can I make one humble request: please do not call the power reserve the martial adept classes use "ki". In 3.5 that made the monk look like even more of a loser than he already was, because ki was this one mystic ability he had that was really cool, and then the warblade, swordsage and crusader came along and made his ki use look like that of an absolute beginner.
The good news: only the Stalker has a ki pool, and right now only the Stalker-only discipline of Steel Serpent references ki in its fluff.
The slightly bad news is that I think your knowledge of Tome of Battle may be a bit out of date; only Swordsage (vaguely) referenced ki in Tome of Battle. Warblade had no supernatural maneuvers or prowess whatsoever, while the Crusader was faith-based and made the paladin, not the monk, look like a beginner.
The unfortunate thing is...
Okay. I'm going to preface this by saying that I tried a dozen ways to write this in a fashion that doesn't sound conceited. This is the best I've got.
Monk seems like it sucks because it sucks. No class in Pathfinder has worse design; only the Truenamer in 3.5 managed to sink lower than Monk in its 'original' incarnation. Monk has numerous crippling design flaws in its base class and only a small number of archetypes (IIRC Zen Archer, Hungry Ghost, and that one whose name starts with a Q) that are worth using, with its other options ranging from sub-par to sadistic traps. Its abilities conflict with each other, are too poor to consider using, or both, and in addition to suffering from Melee Problems it has additional complexity tax above and beyond what other martial characters face.
And that's before you even consider the incredible lengths that Paizo has gone to in order to 'nerf' Monk.
We're not trying to overwrite or replace any classes, but...that doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Classes like Monk and Fighter got turned obsolete a very long time before we came along, and I for one don't feel like attempting to 'spare' them. Paizo's mistakes are not my problem.
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Classes like Monk and Fighter got turned obsolete a very long time before we came along, and I for one don't feel like attempting to 'spare' them. Paizo's mistakes are not my problem.
This has been my stance since this thread began. Along the middle there were a bunch of people who were adamant that everything and a bag of chips should be done to avoid overriding these classes, but... well, the only way to do that is to make a class that's on-par with them or, gods forbid, worse, and nobody's gonna want that product so why waste your time and money? If you want to play a fighter you'll play a fighter, if you want to be worse than a fighter... uhm... there's Commoner or Aristocrat? Iunno.
Thankfully most of those people have seemed to have gotten the message of "This product is not for you, sorry, better luck next time" and meandered off, and the discussion since has thankfully turned into much more productive development, testing, and communication instead of rules arguments and accusations of imbalance left and right.
the discussion since has thankfully turned into much more productive development, testing, and communication instead of rules arguments and accusations of imbalance left and right.
Whiiiiich reminds me.
I've been snagging some playtesters from my end (i.e. the GitP end) of things to run some tests for me on the classes, and I wanted to leave an open call for the Paizo forum end of things. I'm not running a game or a thread, mostly because between school and work I don't have the free time, but if anyone's up for playtesting I'd like to request you run these guys, solo and/or in groups, through some of the following:
- 'Classical' enemies. Undead, devils, demons, anything from Greek mythology, dragons, necromancers, evil clerics, etc. Anyone can fight orcs and goblins; I'm worried about magical and unusual enemies, especially these staples of fantasy.
- Traps, puzzles, and obstacles. Locked doors at the lower end of things, flooding chambers and magical blasting traps at the higher one. How do they detect them? Disable them? Avoid them? Can they help the party do any of these things?
- Social situations. Detail is great here in the after-action report.
- Defensive enemies with immunities. Think golems, elementals, undead, incorporeal creatures, etc.
- Enemies with class levels. BBEGs are a thing, as are rival adventuring parties. Low priority here; these sorts of encounters are pretty much the purview of the DM in most cases and the responsibility is in their hands to balance it out.
Anyone free to do these things would be MUCH appreciated. I'd do it myself, but...no time. Never enough time.
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Sounds like the arena tests Sslarn and Yeungling have been running. I'll do what I can, though likewise my time is a bit limited =)