I am creating a kineticist, and starting him at 3rd level. I *really* like the fluff of the Kinetic Blade infusion. Instead of standing back 30 feet or more, I charge right into the middle of the combat (bare-handed), then conjure up a morningstar of earth (or whatever) to deliver my attack. I want to play a character who likes to mix it up -- I like the fluff so much that I'm probably taking this, regardless of the drawbacks.
But oh, the drawbacks. If I am understanding the rules correctly, then this is significantly worse than the simple blast. I have to be in the melee (where I am more easily attacked, and am likely to get pinned down by an opponent). I have to pay a point of burn -- that's a significant amount of damage to me (perhaps half of what I'm doing to my opponent) and it limits me to doing this only a few rounds per day!
At least I've got the benefits. Normally, melee attacks do slightly more damage than ranged... but not this one. I do not get a strength bonus to damage. I DO get to use my strength bonus to hit, but my strength is worse than my dex, so in my case that's actually a penalty. I don't get an advantage against their armor, or even get to change my damage type. If I had multiple attacks, that would be nice: as a kineticist I will first get that at 8th level, and haste spells aren't likely until about that range either. I don't even get attacks of opportunity or provide flanking bonuses to my friends, because it disappears at the end of my turn. I suppose I can get the +2 from doing a charge; that's just about the only thing I could find.
I really want this to be good, but right now it looks like by burning hitpoints I can, for just a few rounds a day, take a to-hit penalty for the right to get up close where the enemy can hit me. Please tell me what I am missing so I can take advantage of this really nice-sounding ability.
Thanks for the quick response.
take Weapon Finesse and now you're running off pure Dex (for hit) and Con (for damage).
Which is exactly the same as if I just attacked at range using blast. Where's the advantage from Kinetic Blade?
Or, just go Fire or Void for an energy attack so all your attacks are against touch.
Which, again, is the same as if I just used blast from range.
At level five, you can reduce the cost of total kinetic blast by 1, so if all you're applying is the blade, it's free. No more rounds / day limitations.
So by level 5 some of the severe disadvantages disappear. But it still isn't until 8 that I get any advantages over the blast WITHOUT Kinetic Blade.
if you stick with a single element you could pick up Kinetic Whip at 7 when you get Expanded Element.
Ah, so by taking 2 infusions, it can actually become useful at 7 (by giving AOOs), then pretty nice at 8 (by giving a 2nd attack). That's something.
Lastly, if you want haste, go Air.
Ah, I didn't realize that was there and could be used on yourself. So that brings it down to 6th level when Kinetic Blade finally starts having some kind of advantage over just doing the blast. That's a good deal better than 8.
Using Kinetic blade and Quickened Ride the Blast, you can pounce and then full attack.
It is by far the best way to get multiple attacks on a kineticist, and makes their nova damage one of the best in the game.
Firstly, there isn't much benefit until 8 when you get iterative attacks. Multiple attacks is the biggest benefit. Both for more damage and more hits with substance infusions.
Next, you can gather power for your blade until lvl 5 when you get substance infusion. You can also weapon finesse your blade for dex to attack.
To get around the threatened bit, you can equip a cestus that won't affect your ability to gather power or blast.
Also, energy blades do attack touch AC. While it's less damage it is easier to hit which is good for your iterative attacks.
Using Kinetic blade and Quickened Ride the Blast, you can pounce and then full attack.
It is by far the best way to get multiple attacks on a kineticist, and makes their nova damage one of the best in the game.
You need to gather power to quicken a blast to Ride the Blast into melee which means you can't full attack. You'd have to take 3 burn to full attack.
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You need to gather power to quicken a blast to Ride the Blast into melee which means you can't full attack. You'd have to take 3 burn to full attack.Using Kinetic blade and Quickened Ride the Blast, you can pounce and then full attack.
It is by far the best way to get multiple attacks on a kineticist, and makes their nova damage one of the best in the game.
Which still can be worth it to nova, but it's not something you are able to do all the time, even at very high level.
Don't forget that since it is part of another action, and not a ranged attack, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Firstly, there isn't much benefit until 8 when you get iterative attacks. Multiple attacks is the biggest benefit. Both for more damage and more hits with substance infusions.
If you have a friendly wizard with Haste, full attacks become a lot more significant, often as soon as level 5.
Regular kinetic blast costs an attack of opportunity for the SLA, and then one for the ranged attack.
Aha! And the light dawns... Thank you Shiroi!
I didn't realize that the normal Kinetic Blast triggered an AOO. (Two AOOs?? I don't actually understand that part.) So before iterative attacks and haste, the benefit of the Kinetic Blade is that it doesn't trigger AOOs. That's enough to make it useful and give me an excuse to use it (for flavor reasons).
Out of curiosity, does Gather Power trigger AOOs? Actually, which of the kineticist's powers trigger AOOs and which don't -- and more significantly, where is that described in the rules.
If you haven't picked an element yet I recommend one that makes melee life easier. Aether has a pool of quick regenerating temp HP. Water gives you an awesome free floating shield. Earth gives you crazy good scaling DR.
Regular kinetic blast costs an attack of opportunity for the SLA, and then one for the ranged attack.Aha! And the light dawns... Thank you Shiroi!
I didn't realize that the normal Kinetic Blast triggered an AOO. (Two AOOs?? I don't actually understand that part.) So before iterative attacks and haste, the benefit of the Kinetic Blade is that it doesn't trigger AOOs. That's enough to make it useful and give me an excuse to use it (for flavor reasons).
Out of curiosity, does Gather Power trigger AOOs? Actually, which of the kineticist's powers trigger AOOs and which don't -- and more significantly, where is that described in the rules.
The thing with the blast is that it is made up of two separate actions that each draw their own AoOs
1. Casting a spell or SLA
2. Using a ranged attack
Since they are their own defined actions, you draw an AoO for each, and as such this doesn't fall under the 'only one AoO for an action' rule. So yes- this is the decision of whether you want to put resources into something as risky as melee vs. the risk of just eating a ton of AoOs for not having the option.
And no, gather power doesn't trigger AoOs. But obviously, if you use anything other than the move action version, then you are just standing there yelling like a DBZ character just daring anyone to punch you in the face. Also, generally, anything other than the move action version is rather inefficient (since you could spend those two turns just shooting two blasts with the low level gather power)
One of the major advantages of Kinetic Blade/Whip is the ability to use iterative attacks with it, which something that you cannot do with a ranged Kinetic Blast... at all :S No, Flurry of Blasts isn't doing the same as iterative attacks, ok?
Twice Metakinesis gets you double your attacks with the blade, since you're using 2 blasts. Quicken Metakinesis gets you a blast as a swift action before all that. Composite blasts do technically double damage than simple blasts. Being hasted gets you your extra attack.
While you might need to supercharge before doing so, it might be possible to do a Quicken AND Twice Kinetic Blade for 2 attacks as a swift action followed by another Twice Kinetic Blade for up to 6 more attacks, if you have more than +11 for BAB.
Hiya
What about the Gather Power bit? It's still a Move Action that provokes, so until you're 5th Lvl it's not worth taking? Unless you're in a jam and can take the Burn?
Came up at a PFS Convention last weekend with my Telekineticist.
Thanks
Paul H
Gather power doesn't provoke (the word 'provoke' comes up a total of three times in the entire class.. all of them are in talents, one in the blade, one in the fist, and one in aether's foe throw when talking about the thrown enemy's movements; all three times, it is about how the action 'doesn't' provoke)
...but yeah, I can understand choosing not to take the blade until you can get it for free. It basically forces you to take a full round action jsut to get off one attack until you can ignore the burn costs. Also, its main advantage as a damage dealer is iteratives, which doesn't come into play until later as well.
So you would be well justified just doing ranged stuff until then. Until that point, it is almost purely a 'I have someone in my face, adn I don't want to provoke AoOs' thing.
And you are more than invited to just make a ranged kineticist in general. Having melee is fine, but hardly a deal breaker if it isn't your style. With ranged feats, toughness, iron will, etc. to grab, you have enough on your plate feat wise.
@lemeres I'd actually argue that the primary reason to get KBlade is to attack without provoking AoO yourself. If something gets in your face and you can't/don't want to retreat then KBlade is your safest bet. For me it's right up there with extended range as a "must get" for ~90% of kineticist builds.
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It is useful in a grapple. I basically don't really use it unless I am grappled, in which case I spend a point from the buffer and do an empowered (needed the point) full kinetic blade attack. I am a fire kineticist and max out burn to improve the fire defense at the beginning of the day. It doesn't :D take long until the GM realizes that any creature grappling you is giving themselves a death sentence.
My build, if anyone cares:
Pyrogeny
Human
Neutral
Worships Ymeri, Queen of the Inferno
Traits:
(1) Reactionary Initiative
(2) Affinity of the elements: Add 1 to the DC of saving throws made to resist the effects of spells cast by you that have either the air, earth, FIRE, or water descriptor, depending on which elemental lord you worship. Which bonus you receive is chosen when you take the trait and may not be changed.
Human dual talent alternate trait to get +2 to two abilities.
Stats:
STR: 7
DEX: 20
CON: 20 +1 at lvl 4,8,12,16
INT: 7
WIS: 8
CHA: 7
New:
1: Elemental Focus(Fire), Point Blank Shot, Burning Infusion
2: Fire's Fury
3: Precise Shot, Kinetic Blade
4: Searing Flame
5: Greater Elemental Focus (Fire), Extended Range
6: Heat Adaptation
7: Expanded Element(Aether), Weapon Finesse
8: Flame Jet
9: Toughness, Eruption
10: Greater Flame Jet
11: Extra Wild Talent(Touchsight), Flash Infusion, Telekinetic Invisibility (Favored Class)
12: Expanded Defense (Aether)
13: Feat?, Foe Throw
14: Reactive Touchsight
15: Expanded Element (Fire), Improved Precise Shot, Heat Wave
16: Reverse Shift
I know the will save is horrible, but I have a clear spindle ioun stone with wayfinder to avoid getting dominated by evil. And the fort and reflex saves are out of this world. Basically, the character has enough hit points to survive a bad will save effect or two.
I am not exaggerating when I say that basically anything that could kill my character can pretty much kill the entire rest of the party for the effort it would take to kill me.
Obviously, one could have a custom creature designed to get mine, but IMO that is "cheating". My character has kinetic blade for grapple, aether attacks for when something has fire resistance and/or spell resistance, and otherwise just blasts.
I also think people underestimate the utility of fire kins. Is perma-blindness on the BBEG really so bad, especially when you are doing top damage?