Ok, so a few of my friends and I have been debating over what Wolverine would be if he were to be translated into Pathfinder. One of my friends think he would be a Viking Fighter, one says he'd be a Barbarian/Ranger, one says a Rogue/Barbarian would. I honestly can't decide for myself, and so I turn to you guys. What do you think good ol' James "Logan" Howlett would look like in Pathfinder?
Ranger 2/Invulnerable Barbarian 18 with a pearly white spindle ioun stone implanted in him.
A troll mixing barb and rogue.
Wolverine would probably be a Wild Stalker Ranger. In combat he is good, but without his claws and skeleton he is not nearly as good. This gives him a decent amount of skills, and the class skills he is going to need. You also get some rage power but all you really need are beast totem for the claws and reckless abandon.
Some of the Ranger spells work well with the concept. Aspect of the Wolf and Blood Hound come to mind right away. The ranger also gets some healing spells which can work for his healing. Not only can he heal HP, but he can also neutralize poisons, and remove disease.
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Wolverine would probably be a Wild Stalker Ranger. In combat he is good, but without his claws and skeleton he is not nearly as good. This gives him a decent amount of skills, and the class skills he is going to need. You also get some rage power but all you really need are beast totem for the claws and reckless abandon.
Without his claws he would lose very little. He is trained in just about every form of martial arts in the world, and could probably use any weapon available. Stack that with super-human everything, scent, and regenerative powers... this guy is ridiculous.
Wolverine would probably be a Wild Stalker Ranger. In combat he is good, but without his claws and skeleton he is not nearly as good. This gives him a decent amount of skills, and the class skills he is going to need. You also get some rage power but all you really need are beast totem for the claws and reckless abandon.Without his claws he would lose very little. He is trained in just about every form of martial arts in the world, and could probably use any weapon available. Stack that with super-human everything, scent, and regenerative powers... this guy is ridiculous.
A normal sword is not going to carve through a solid steel vault like it is butter; Which Wolverine has done numerous times. Wolverine is a superhero so yea he is ridiculous. A ranger also has proficiency with all martial weapons so can use almost any weapon. Compare him to other martial arts superhero’s and he is not that special.
To me Wolverine is about more than just combat. He has senses way above what a normal person has including scent. He also has his healing factor which in pathfinder is going to be magic.
Barbarian with Lesser Beast Totem (claws) and Renewed Vigor, Regenerative Vigor, Guarded Life, etc. etc. Maybe an amulet of mighty fists +5 to emulate adamantium/adamantine claws. Or a very talented pedicurist and adamantium fingernail polish.
Ok, so a few of my friends and I have been debating over what Wolverine would be if he were to be translated into Pathfinder. One of my friends think he would be a Viking Fighter, one says he'd be a Barbarian/Ranger, one says a Rogue/Barbarian would. I honestly can't decide for myself, and so I turn to you guys. What do you think good ol' James "Logan" Howlett would look like in Pathfinder?
Which books are allowed? If 3.5 is allowed, apply the Feral Template as a base and work from there.
Really anytime anyone asks these types of questions knowing what is available helps a great deal.
Wild stalker ranger.
Compare him to other martial arts superhero’s and he is not that special.
Sorry but you're completely wrong. Wolverine is one of the best martial artists in the entire Marvel Universe. He never seems to use those talents unless the plot calls for him to show off, but he has the skill nonetheless.
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I definitely see him as a Barbarian. I mean, his namesake is the only animal that actually gets the Rage class feature, and rushing into battle ignoring your wounds definitely sounds like a barbarian to me. And you even get claws from the Lesser Beast Totem rage power! Couldn't get more perfect if you tried.
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give him the invulnerable rager archetype and trade out his DR for fast healing. Enjoy
Part of me Bates the idea of natural weapons as they actually make him worse in combat limiting the number of attacks he gets.
I would prefer (I thinkthey are) gloves of storing (GM fiat to have two) with tiger claws and use TWF so his high level will reflect many attacks (and his speed)
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Race: troll/dwarf half-breed.
Class: ex-barbarian that has multiclassed into samurai. He really hasn't had a full-on beserker rage in a few decades.
He's the best there is at what he does, and it ain't pretty.
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Make a Summoner and name him Stan Lee. Now summon your Eidolon (Wolverine) into every story possible and that's about what Marvel does.
Also there's a lot of Eidolon evolutions that seem more like Wolverine than character feats/abilities. Grab Claws, Fast Healing, Scent, and maybe Damage Reduction and what else is there to him?
Wolverine is one of the best martial artists in the entire Marvel Universe.
People love to make this claim. I think it's mostly that he's a fan favorite. There are MANY martial artists in the Marvel Universe that are supposed to be the best trained, but only Wolverine gets impaled by swords every time he fights. Way to go Wolvy.
You don't see Iron Fist, Captain America, Taskmaster, etc. constantly getting impaled (okay Electra has been impaled a few times, but she's still probably a better martial artist).
Martial Artist Monk 5/ Barbarian(any) 15
Take feral combat training as you pick up beast totems, you can never be fatigued so you can rage cycle as you like. Since you have FCT, you get iterative claws attacks with pounce, the ability to ignore Dr, fast movement, etc... It's so perfect for Wolverine it hurts imo.
As for Wolvie being a great fighter, he simply is by virtue of having so damn much of it, that he's forgotten it. Dudes been running around training and fighting for over 100 years. Sure, he takes his healing factor for granted in fights so he doesn't avoid much, but that doesn't' mean he can't. They've show him put down captain a few times times in brawls. Iron fist, no, cause that's his sole thing but he held his own. And he's stabbed Electra the a time they clashed iirc.
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People love to make this claim. I think it's mostly that he's a fan favorite. There are MANY martial artists in the Marvel Universe that are supposed to be the best trained, but only Wolverine gets impaled by swords every time he fights. Way to go Wolvy.
Not to mention that Cyclops always wins when they brawl. Occasionally without bothering to use an optic blast.
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They've show him put down captain a few times times in brawls.
True, but the Captain has put him down a few times as well. You can read about all of their combats here.
Wolverine is one of the best martial artists in the entire Marvel Universe.People love to make this claim. I think it's mostly that he's a fan favorite. There are MANY martial artists in the Marvel Universe that are supposed to be the best trained, but only Wolverine gets impaled by swords every time he fights. Way to go Wolvy.
You don't see Iron Fist, Captain America, Taskmaster, etc. constantly getting impaled (okay Electra has been impaled a few times, but she's still probably a better martial artist).
I came on to this thread specifically to say something about this. I shouldn't be surprised that you were already on the ball. Well done. *High five*
I came on to this thread specifically to say something about this. I shouldn't be surprised that you were already on the ball. Well done. *High five*
Ha! Jam, who do you think got me reading all these comics? I defer to your expertise every time.
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A normal sword is not going to carve through a solid steel vault like it is butter
Meh, neither would adamantium claws, if the comics were written with anything even resembling realism. Steel is harder than bronze...that doesn't mean that steel slices through bronze like butter. The same should be true for adamantium and steel.
Look at the Conversions Forum. There are at least four threads building Pathfinder Wolverine
Wolverine is one of the best martial artists in the entire Marvel Universe.People love to make this claim. I think it's mostly that he's a fan favorite. There are MANY martial artists in the Marvel Universe that are supposed to be the best trained, but only Wolverine gets impaled by swords every time he fights. Way to go Wolvy.
You don't see Iron Fist, Captain America, Taskmaster, etc. constantly getting impaled (okay Electra has been impaled a few times, but she's still probably a better martial artist).
I love that you take a single part of my post and turn it into a strawman. You'll notice that I also posted that he never seems to use his skills, that doesn't mean he doesn't have them.
Wolverine has beaten virtually every one of Marvel's best fighters and stomped the hell out of Shang-Chi.
He's pretty much equal with Captain America. I can post fights, or just link you to threads on Comicvine where this is WELL covered if you like.
I came on to this thread specifically to say something about this. I shouldn't be surprised that you were already on the ball. Well done. *High five*
High five all you want. You're wrong.
Wolverine is WELL established as one of Marvel's premier martial artists.
I love that you take a single part of my post and turn it into a strawman.
You need to be attempting to refute a point in order to be straw-man. I wasn't trying to refute what you said, which is specifically why I grabbed only one sentence. I was making a side observation, and also being slightly off topic.
Wolverine has beaten virtually every one of Marvel's best fighters and stomped the hell out of Shang-Chi.
I thought the point was that he was a good martial artist? This is fairly irrelevant to that point. Hulk has beaten just about everybody in a fight but is not a skilled fighter. Raw power, invulnerability, and other factors go into becoming the victor. Sometimes skill isn't a requirement to win.
A character that has a virtually indestructible skeleton and can heal almost any wound does not need skill. He HAS skill, and he is well trained, but his victories are not a measure of his talents.
He's pretty much equal with Captain America. I can post fights, or just link you to threads on Comicvine where this is WELL covered if you like.
I already did. The article I posted is, more than once, referenced as the bible for this fight in many Comicvine conversations. You'll even notice how the primary Comicvine article that is referenced calls Captain America "perhaps the most skilled and versatile hand-to-hand fighter in the Marvel Universe". He punched Thanos. However, once again, a comparison of combat success is not a qualifier for skill. Captain America has beaten Wolverine more than once, and he does NOT have much in the way of powers. That speaks volumes of the skill difference to me.
Wolverine is powerful because he has powers. He also is a great fighter. I'd place him in the top 20 in Marvel probably, arguments could be made for the top 10 in fighting skill. I never said he was bad. However, one of the best? I suppose if you count a dozen people as being one of the best, sure. I usually take the top three as "one of the best" however (I do not know who the top three are and this is VERY up for debate).
Wolverine is WELL established as one of Marvel's premier martial artists.
One of the premier? Sure. It depends on how large your sample set is. I'd call him one of Marvel's premier martial artists as well. One of the best? Not a chance. Best is a strong word, and he is easily outclassed.
...
Go ahead and give me a list of 10 people that outclass Wolverine in skill.
The dude has beaten Iron Fist. >_>
I came on to this thread specifically to say something about this. I shouldn't be surprised that you were already on the ball. Well done. *High five*
Wolverine is one of the best martial artists in the entire Marvel Universe.People love to make this claim. I think it's mostly that he's a fan favorite. There are MANY martial artists in the Marvel Universe that are supposed to be the best trained, but only Wolverine gets impaled by swords every time he fights. Way to go Wolvy.
You don't see Iron Fist, Captain America, Taskmaster, etc. constantly getting impaled (okay Electra has been impaled a few times, but she's still probably a better martial artist).
You've missed the point. The reason he's impaled is he intentionally leaves himself open. This is a well known tactic in duels. You leave yourself open to a survivable wound in order to inflict a fatal wound on your opponent. Normally, this only works in duels, as you can't do this against 2-3 opponents in a row without ending up with a cumulative fatal wound.
Wolverine, on the other hand, can do this tactic with every opponent. This fighting style is what makes him one of the most powerful melee fighters in the Marvel omniverse. In other words, getting impaled all the time is his fighting style. It encompasses several benefits at once. When someone is attacking, they are not defending, and thus leave themselves open. Additionally, it gives him a psychological advantage when he ignores massive wounds and keeps attacking, making his enemies doubt themselves.
You can see this in the latest movie. He's lost about 95% of his regen ability (only enough to keep from dying from blood loss). Even after he's lost his regen ability, he can't stop himself from leaving himself open to attacks, taking bullets, swords, punches, even when he could have avoided them, because he's simply too used to his current fighting style, which uses his strength's ruthlessly.
Go ahead and give me a list of 10 people that outclass Wolverine in skill.
Captain America, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Elektra, Mister X, Gamora, Taskmaster, Shang Chi, Kitty Pride, Nick Fury, Mantis, Karnak, The Cat, Gorgon, Stick, Kraven, Deadpool, maybe Daredevil... Oh I shoulda' stopped at 10.
The dude has beaten Iron Fist. >_>
The victor of a fight is not a measure of skill. A lot goes into a match-up than just skill. Power is always a factor, and Wolverine is nigh invulnerable... which is a pretty impressive power.
In fact, I give more credit to Wolverine's tenacity and willpower than his fighting prowess, which I think weighs MUCH more heavily than his skill.
If you were simply to say who could win a fight (not about skill)? Then Wolverine can (and has) beaten just about everybody on that list.
Wolverine, on the other hand, can do this tactic with every opponent. This fighting style is what makes him one of the most powerful melee fighters in the Marvel omniverse. In other words, getting impaled all the time is his fighting style. It encompasses several benefits at once. When someone is attacking, they are not defending, and thus leave themselves open. Additionally, it gives him a psychological advantage when he ignores massive wounds and keeps attacking, making his enemies doubt themselves.
True, and I appreciate that about him truly. I wonder if we can say that throwing caution to the wind is a matter of skill though. Sure it's a great tactic and an exceedingly effective one, but considering his original berserker style (which is how he defeats Mister X by no longer thinking about his moves), I would argue that he isn't even using this tactic on purpose. It is simply how he fights; reckless, even when he was young.
I would not call that skill... I would call it a crutch, albeit a useful one. True tacticians like Captain America would use it against him.
Perhaps more to the point, his reckless style you described is exactly why Cyclops can toss him on his back with ease. I don't think that was skillful, nor do I think a single person on the list I gave above would ever be tossed on their back by Cyclops.
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Go ahead and give me a list of 10 people that outclass Wolverine in skill.Captain America, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Elektra, Mister X, Gamora, Taskmaster, Shang Chi, Kitty Pride, Nick Fury, Mantis, Karnak, The Cat, Gorgon, Stick, Kraven, Deadpool, maybe Daredevil... Oh I shoulda' stopped at 10.
Heh heh. Gotta love the fact that the student outstripped the teacher. Although having a demon ninja magically dump a load of ninja skill into your brain is definitely a benefit.
Most people vastly underestimate Kitty. Hell, even if she didn't have the ninja skills, she could still be among the most potentially lethal non-cosmic characters in Marvel. Give her a brain-scrambling stick and a desire to kill, and I pity her target.
The dude has beaten Iron Fist. >_>The victor of a fight is not a measure of skill. A lot goes into a match-up than just skill. Power is always a factor, and Wolverine is nigh invulnerable... which is a pretty impressive power.
Exactly. I think there's little doubt that Captain America has more fighting skill than the Hulk. But in a one-on-one fight between them, Cap doesn't really have a chance. Even he can eventually grow tired, nothing he can do can do more than annoy the Hulk, and even a glancing blow from the Hulk could literally splatter him.
Perhaps more to the point, his reckless style you described is exactly why Cyclops can toss him on his back with ease.
The funniest thing about that picture to me is Wolverine's last line. "I'm just gonna do what I do best." He's absolutely right. He's gonna get his ass kicked to establish that Cyclops is a badass. :P
Wolverine, on the other hand, can do this tactic with every opponent. This fighting style is what makes him one of the most powerful melee fighters in the Marvel omniverse. In other words, getting impaled all the time is his fighting style. It encompasses several benefits at once. When someone is attacking, they are not defending, and thus leave themselves open. Additionally, it gives him a psychological advantage when he ignores massive wounds and keeps attacking, making his enemies doubt themselves.True, and I appreciate that about him truly. I wonder if we can say that throwing caution to the wind is a matter of skill though. Sure it's a great tactic and an exceedingly effective one, but considering his original berserker style (which is how he defeats Mister X by no longer thinking about his moves), I would argue that he isn't even using this tactic on purpose. It is simply how he fights; reckless, even when he was young.
I would not call that skill... I would call it a crutch, albeit a useful one. True tacticians like Captain America would use it against him.
Perhaps more to the point, his reckless style you described is exactly why Cyclops can toss him on his back with ease. I don't think that was skillful, nor do I think a single person on the list I gave above would ever be tossed on their back by Cyclops.
Depends really on which Wolverine we're talking about. Honestly. The one on the X-Men team in the Comics? The one on the X-Men team in Cartoons? The one in the Wolverine Comics? The one in the Wolverine Movies? The one who had all his memories? The one who had lost all his memories?
For example, the one who was a secret agent with Gray Fox and Sabretooth was a very highly trained and ruthless fighter who weighed tactics and was a really really nasty combatant.
If you mean the one from the cartoons, yeah, he's gone back to instinct due to a loss of rational training and brain damage resulting in full memory loss.
The wolverine in the wolverine comics varies depending on when and where he's at.
So yeah, depends on when and where you're talking about him. He's honestly one of the most variable heroes (or villains, which he has been) in Marvel. Cyclops is pretty much cyclops at all points in time.
Give her a brain-scrambling stick and a desire to kill, and I pity her target.
Heh, my favorite Shadowcat moment is when she pulled Emma Frost into a cave with her head in the rock just to make a point. Not many people can leave the White Queen completely helpless, and certainly not so easily. I wish I could find a photo of this one. >.> It reminded me of Age of Apocalypse Nightcrawler.
He's honestly one of the most variable heroes (or villains, which he has been) in Marvel.
You are amazingly accurate with this statement.
He has had more writer's than any other character mostly because fans love him and he's simple to write for (this does not mean he cannot have good writing).
Also his healing factor has been getting more and more powerful. It was not a big deal back in the day, now he can have his skeleton ripped from his body and still recover. The same thing happened with Deadpool.
The only character I can think of that is quite so variable is Hulk, and that's more the nature of the Hulk to BE variable. Oh, and Molecule Man, but most of that is just bad writing.
Even at his best though, his VERY best, I still only place him in the top 20 when it comes to raw skill. If we were playing it off of everything... well, being hip tossed by Cyclops earns you bottom rung, but I usually give Wolverine more credit than that.
Personally, I'd place him in my top 10 marvel martial combatants among the major Marvel Pantheon. I acknowledge he loses a lot, doesn't everyone in comics tho? If Dr. Doom can lose to squirrel girl, there is no sacred cow anymore for marvel. Well, besides Doctor Strange I hear, but that's another discussion for another time.
I think we can all agree, Wolverine should be a powerful Martial character at least in terms of game terms. Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, etc...
Also, anyone else amused they put this in homebrew rather than conversions? Sorta wants me to make another Lupine/Mutant race again...
Here is a quite official list from Marvel's Homepage:
http://marvel.com/news/story/9384/take_10_martial_artists
Even if Wolverine wasN't on the list he'd be insanely good. Guys like Gambit block railgun fire for the lulz.
Cyclops is pretty much cyclops at all points in time.Yeah....not so much.
Other than the 'boosted cyclops' I saw on a cartoon that was non canon, I've never seen him portrayed in comics or movies or cartoons as anything other than a blaster with some moderate skill in martial arts.
Now, given how many comics Marvel has done, and how many 'alternate time line' versions, I'm sure that somewhere out there is a 'god cyclops'. However, within cannon, he's pretty much just Cyclops. That's not a bad thing, it means he's consistently one of the most powerful blasters in the Marvel world. But that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about melee fighters here.
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I've never seen him portrayed in comics or movies or cartoons as anything other than a blaster with some moderate skill in martial arts.
And yet he consistantly is able to put Wolverine down, often without resorting to optic blasts. Doesn't speak well for your arguement that Wolverine is some sort of a melee god.
Cyclops has some martial training, but I chaulk up most of his "putdowns" to writer favoritism. He shouldn't be any more powerful than a regular guy as his power has nothing to do with physical strength, yet he can lift wolverine, who weighs a boatload with the skeleton over his head like it's nothing. Nope, totally Isn't fanboyism there >.>
That said, I lived him pre XvA, so how would one make him in pf? Sorceror?
I've never seen him portrayed in comics or movies or cartoons as anything other than a blaster with some moderate skill in martial arts.And yet he consistantly is able to put Wolverine down, often without resorting to optic blasts. Doesn't speak well for your arguement that Wolverine is some sort of a melee god.
Wow,
Fanboy butthurt much? You should see a doctor about that. Nobody claimed he was a melee god. Yeah, done with this conversation. I'm not a Wolvy fan, nor a Cyclops fan. I prefer Gambit honestly. :)|
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Cyclops has some martial training, but I chaulk up most of his "putdowns" to writer favoritism. He shouldn't be any more powerful than a regular guy as his power has nothing to do with physical strength, yet he can lift wolverine, who weighs a boatload with the skeleton over his head like it's nothing. Nope, totally Isn't fanboyism there >.>
Do you REALLY want to start talking about fanboyism when discussing Wolverine?
Yes actually since its directly relevant in power level discussions. The writers aren't perfect and are largely inconsistent, wolvie' s healing factor drastically varying in power for example, various retcons, etc.
Plus no one is saying Wolvie can beat the hulk or Thor or anything. Those are the "melee gods" of marvel I'd say, simply cause of how powerful they are.