I think the general consensus from what i have read in the past is that if you think of some way for Dervish dance to work with more than just the scimitar, it probably is not intended to.
The Dervish Dance feat repeatedly references the scimitar multiple times throughout the description of the feat. While it's true that it says add DEX to damage rolls without limiting that to only apply to scimitar damage rolls, it's very VERY obvious that the intent of the feat is to apply your DEX bonus ONLY to your scimitar damage rolls, and not to anything else.
It should have explicitly stated it this way and apparently it did not. So, RAW at its absolute rawest would allow the DEX modifier to damage on all melee attacks, but the RAI is extremely clear and I don't think anyone will ever find any GM anywhere that would ever consider interpreting it that way.
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I'd say something about how it feels disingenuous to do something like that but then I think about how Dervish Dance is the core feat to a lot of Magus builds so I'm not going to worry about someone clawing at people and so forth, especially given how low the damage output is for natural attacking things normally and the fact that it actually gives you something to do with Weapon Finesse as Dervish Dance is doing all the work on to hit and damage rolls with the scimitar.
Isn't there a ranger fighting style that focuses on natural attacks? Could boost that up a bit.
Dervish Dance states that, "When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand."
So a dex based character with multiple natural attacks could either just hold the scimitar and take their full allotment of primary (and secondary) natural attacks minus one claw attack, all with dex to hit and damage; OR they could swing the scimitar at full iterative BAB and then take all of their secondary natural attacks (except one claw) again all with dex to hit and damage.
Now the dawnflower dervish (I think that is the one) bard archetype would probably work with this, and grants double normal inspire competence on top of using dex. and the dervish dancer bard archetype would similarly grant the feat for free, and allow the character to inspire himself (but not at 2x).
But I am thinking a fighter or barbarian would get better use of this. Especially an urban barbarian.
So what dex based race is best suited to gaining several natural attacks, and has a good favored class feature or archetype that would mesh well with a fighter or urban barbarian?
Or, is there another class better suited to this concept?
First, "wielding" a scimitar for this feat means you're going to use that scimitar in combat. Not just hold it, brandish it, wave it threateningly, or however you want to justify bending the semantics. If you do not use a scimitar to attack with this feat, you do not gain the benefit of the feat. Such is the definition of "wield" vs. "hold". Does the effing book REALLY have to say "use your dex mod on str and damage with the scimitar that we just spent describing in detail above"?!? The way some of you flagrantly bend, ignore, and twist the wording of these rulebooks to do things that are obviously not intentional is amazing.
Second, even if it DID work, or you had a DM that allowed it, using your own logic above, you have a weapon in your off-hand. One that you cannot unwield. Perhaps "several" of them. So, again, feat no worky because your logic says you are "wielding" natural weapons, even if you aren't using them.
Third, IF somehow you legally qualified to do all of this, or simply got a GM Fiat, I would choose Catfolk or Kitsune. Both good races, both have access to bites and claws, both have access to a pounce mechanic. Would work very well if this were legal.
If it were intended to be limited to attack and damage rolls WITH A SCIMITAR, those words could easily have been included.
That's making a huge assumption(s). First, that the developers are correct every single time they print something. There wouldn't need to be Errata if this was the case. The Pathfinder TEAM is just that. Sometimes one or two things (or 500) are missed in clarity.
Second assumption is saying that the Pathfinder team didn't write this thinking "Hmm, would some munchkin try to use other attacks or weapons instead of the scimitar clearly described and intended here? Naah, it's clearly intentional to use a scimitar. Let's not get too wordy. Someone stretching this is going to get the kabosh by his DM."
I vote for both. (And, to be fair, I did answer the race option question. Catfolk has a slight advantage because of Sprinter and access to Claw Pounce mechanics (also Clawing Rend. Hello, full claw attack action at the end of a pounce with your natural weapons, using extra damage dice. Add in Power Attack or more bonuses, etc. IF you had this insanity legalized, that's a sick mechanic to exploit). Kitsune is second in line because of the racial bite attack, focus on dexterity, and Vulpine Pounce feats.
As far as class, I'd go with Ranger simply to have access to the Natural Weapons combat style and free feats geared towards it. (Another advantage: Catfolk. Favored class bonus = progressive Critical Focus).
As I said the first time, this is the reason DMs exist. If no clear rule exists by RAW, they will extrapolate the data/mechanics, weigh it against precedents, common sense, and experience, and give you their RAI interpretation, which actually matters more than what's printed on paper.
It seriously sounds like you're doing some theorycrafting with "Hey, this feat has the mechanic I want, how do I bend/break the rules to exploit that?"
The simplest answer is, you can't. Find another way around it.
That isn't how the feat is intended to be used.
That being said, the very existence of the feat (and the Agile weapon quality) is evidence that getting Dex to damage isn't terribly game breaking.
Just houserule it from "scimitar" to "light weapons and scimitars". You might even come up with additional one-handed weapons that you think would be fine to add to the list along with the scimitar.
As long as this isn't for PFS it will be fine.
That isn't how the feat is intended to be used.
That being said, the very existence of the feat (and the Agile weapon quality) is evidence that getting Dex to damage isn't terribly game breaking.
Just houserule it from "scimitar" to "light weapons and scimitars". You might even come up with additional one-handed weapons that you think would be fine to add to the list along with the scimitar.
As long as this isn't for PFS it will be fine.
I'd go a step further and state that it applies to anyone weapon that qualifies for Weapon Finesse (since that's a prerequisite feat).
That being said, the very existence of the feat (and the Agile weapon quality) is evidence that getting Dex to damage isn't terribly game breaking.
It's fairly game breaking balance-wise. Especially in this situation. It's much easier to do every melee class with a dex build because dex affects AC.
If you have one-stop shopping, using this feat, plus the ability to use any weapon you want by skirting around RAI, then why would any melee class ever use the STR score again? They would all focus on dex builds and disregard the main ability score for frontline melee classes.
Game Broken.
/rant end.
OP, is there a reason you need to use the Dervish Dance feat to get what you want out of Natural Attacks instead of simply using Weapon Finesse and an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists?
You'd get DEX to attack and damage with natural attacks, legally.
Ok, so it's pure theorycrafting then. The "flavor" of the Dervish Dance feat (and the Dervish Dancer Archetype) go hand-in-hand with the use of a scimitar.
It's actually traced back through it's origins to a D&D Campaign Setting and a class option called a Whirling Dervish. The setting was Arabic in nature, hence the weapon style.
If you want the "flavor" of those two things, and maintain RAW legality, you can use Weapon Finesse, Agile AoMF, and Whirlwind Attack routines, although with a hefty feat tax and expensive magic item.
Using all those items and mechanics can manifest any way you want them to. That's where your flavor comes in.
That being said, the very existence of the feat (and the Agile weapon quality) is evidence that getting Dex to damage isn't terribly game breaking.It's fairly game breaking balance-wise. Especially in this situation. It's much easier to do every melee class with a dex build because dex affects AC.
If you have one-stop shopping, using this feat, plus the ability to use any weapon you want by skirting around RAI, then why would any melee class ever use the STR score again? They would all focus on dex builds and disregard the main ability score for frontline melee classes.
Game Broken.
Not trying to derail the thread, so I don't know how much to discuss this, but STR still would serve a purpose.
A front-line combatant needs enough STR to ensure that when armored he's not suffering too much encumbrance. Additionally, AC from DEX is still limited by the armor that you're wearing. While you can forego the armor, relying solely on DEX for your AC can be devastating if you're up against an opponent that can consistently deny it to you.
Why light/finessable weapons? Scimitar isn't a light nor finesse weapon. If you're going to expand the feat via houserule, it would be more appropriate to extend it to all 1-h slashing weapons (maybe with caveat to exclude 1-h finesse weapons so you can't do it with a whip).I'd go a step further and state that it applies to anyone weapon that qualifies for Weapon Finesse (since that's a prerequisite feat).That isn't how the feat is intended to be used.
That being said, the very existence of the feat (and the Agile weapon quality) is evidence that getting Dex to damage isn't terribly game breaking.
Just houserule it from "scimitar" to "light weapons and scimitars". You might even come up with additional one-handed weapons that you think would be fine to add to the list along with the scimitar.
As long as this isn't for PFS it will be fine.
Huh. To be honest, I hadn't looked at Weapon Finesse in awhile and assumed that since it was a prereq for Dervish Dance, scimitar was one of the exception items on there. My bad.
I wouldn't apply it to slashing-only weapons, though, even in that case; rapier is an iconic 'dexterous rogue' weapon that would greatly benefit from it, and it's piercing.
Dunno that I'd have a problem with allowing it for whip, either. Although in that instance, I probably would rename it (I'd probably rename it anyway, since 'dervish' is a historical style centered around scimitars).
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Weapon Finesse being a prereq for Dervish Dance is little more than a feat tax...
Most builds incorporating DD these days go the Dervish of Dawn route, skipping that requirement.
There are several problems with Dervish Dance from a reliable DPR stand-point:
1) You can't apply Piranha Strike because scimitars aren't light.
2) The build invariably skips Weapon Finesse (shoehorning it into pure one-trick-pony with the scimitar, and putting it at a severe disadvantage if min/maxed and without its favorite gear).
3) You can't TWF to make the most of your high dexterity.
...compared to a samurai TWFing Agile wakizashies, or even an ordinary rogue with shortswords, DDs feel like a munchkin trap.