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So I have an idea for a character I want to try.
In my mind, the story, the feel, everything is awesome.
But now comes the hard part - building the individual.
Essentially, it's a samurai of sorts, decisive, with a mystical flair.
On one hand, a Fighter going the weapon-master route would be a great choice, due to the brutal certainty of their weapon strikes. One swing could do a massive amount of damage, and end the fight in a single blow, which is great for what I have in mind.
On the other hand, the Samurai alternate for Cavalier, with the Sword Saint archetype seems almost perfect for it. Not to mention the feel of granting Shaken or Deafened by striking off a quick-draw is pretty awesome, and the challenge ability adds a lot of flavor to the mix.
The first is brute-force with more options (feats), whereas the second is more flavor with fewer options. Both are really good, and I'm bouncing back and forth between them, but there's still one issue:
Both of them provide armor proficiencies.
For the image in my mind, this is bothersome.
Dipping back to 3.5, I can find a number of options that trade out armor proficiencies for other benefits, essentially getting some other type of AC bonus without wearing armor (Int to AC, Wis to AC, Natural Armor, etc).
I'm hoping there is some trade-out available in a strictly Pathfinder sense to achieve the same thing. I just can't see the character wearing armor, but for a melee sort, losing the AC entirely would be a terrible decision.
Is there a trade-out, officially, for up to heavy armor?
(Without multi-classing)
Essentially, it's a samurai of sorts, decisive, with a mystical flair.
Kensai Magus
Armor problem solved.
I have to second Kensai Magus; it's probably your best option. You gain the ability to maximize weapon damage (or expand crit range) using your Arcane Pool, gains a point of his INT (per Magus level) as an INT bonus to AC while wearing no armor, and a slew of other really nice 'Samurai-esque" benefits.
Well, they "Mystical Flair" is from being the Kitsune race, and going the extra-tails feat route.
I guess I can consider it, but the thing is, I was trying to avoid ACTUAL magic.
Are there no other ways? No other variants?
I third the Kensai Magus. Its the best fit for what your going for. Other than that you are forced to Multi-class.
Not by RAW that I see.
I had thought that the retraining section in Ultimate Campaign might offer some hope, but the armor proficiencies granted by the class are a class feature, and training those is limited to a specific list of features.
Or multiclass Monk (Martial Artist)\Samurai, perhaps going Duelist later on when you qualify for it.
All of these end up being Multiclass though, sadly, which is a key element I'm trying to avoid. The cap abilities of both Sword Saint and Weapon Master are thing the character would aim for in the long run. There are neat things from the Kensai, but the inclusion of spells and the reduced base attack will combat the purpose. Prestige classes won't help either, as they'll take away from the main class.
(sigh) Oh well. Guess I'll have to deal with armor. >_<
Or aim for Bracers of Armor - but I just wish there was another way.
Just don't wear armor. Or wear one of the really small and easily concealable ones like haramaki, silken ceremonial, or chain shirt (wear it under your outer clothes.
I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet on this one.
I could write off padded as thicker clothing, but there goes the silk garb idea. =P I'll double-check into the equipment guide and see what I can't dig up.
Thanks for all the help, everyone.
Bracers of Armor work very well.
Though not strictly PF, Kirthfinder offers a chance for classes to get rid of armor proficiencies for a feat called.Canny Defense. Worth looking into.
Unfortunately, Monk is the only decent way to go unarmored.
Would Sohei Monk work better? You get light armor, but pretty sure you still get your Wis to Ac if you don't wear armor.
Gives you weapon training, but no cool capstone.
I've been meaning to try a build where you take crane and snake style. Then you use master of many styles to go into both styles at once. Add in deflect arrows, and you can dodge 3 different attacks per round. Who needs armour?
Be sure to take improved initiative and blind-fight so that those pesky rogues don't get the jump on you :)
I would second Lore Warden simi planned out an Aldori Duelist (going for the PrCs of 1st lvl in Aldori Swordlord and rest in Duelist). Good way to ditch heavy armor and give the feel you are talking about without going Kensei.
As much as I appreciate the suggestions, the majority are missing one primary point:
---> Without Multi-Classing <-- (for all intents, this includes prestige classes, as they deny cap abilities)
(Also, I don't know any GMs anymore that'll let you take a PrC and NOT finish it - you either join the order, or you don't. Prevents cheesing)
I think I know how I'll go about this now though, so again, I thank you all~
Chiming in on the forced finish also, I don't know that I've seen any GM do that. Maybe you've just been unlucky?
---> Without Multi-Classing <-- (for all intents, this includes prestige classes, as they deny cap abilities)
(Also, I don't know any GMs anymore that'll let you take a PrC and NOT finish it - you either join the order, or you don't. Prevents cheesing)
Rather than harp on the force finish thing, which is totally silly and I've also never seen it, let me focus on the other part of this.
You don't want to mutli-class because you really want the capstone abilities for these classes.
So let me add this--I've never seen another GM (other than myself) that has ever had PCs actually play at level 20. Usually leveling to 20, if it happens at all, is like the final reward that lets you know the game is over. You kill the BBEG and get 20th and it's over! Or, at most, you get 20, then fight the BBEG and then it's over, so the cap abilities would only matter for like 1 session.
Otherwise, games basically don't go past the mid teens--16th or so tops.
I have run a single game that went epic (back in 3rd edition) and the PCs made it to 31, but their cap abilities were a joke compared to the epic powers they had anyway, so they still didn't matter.
Maybe you should stop worrying about the last level of the game you are unlikely to see, and even less likely to play as, and make a character that fits your vision right now?
I still wouldn't multi-class, though, since Pathfinder prestige classes suck and Favored Class bonuses are actually pretty nice. Kensai Magus is the class you want that fits your stated vision best.
If you want to be any other melee fighter that isn't a monk, you're stuck with armor.
You should at least check out Silken Ceremonial Armor, though, as an alternative to the mega expensive Bracers of Armor.
I totally understand the notion of expecting one to finish a PrC, and am disheartened by the number of people who don't.
If you aim for a prestige class, that's generally a flavor thing you're aiming for with your character. Something that identifies them.
If you dip a few levels into a PrC for abilities, it falls into the twink/optimization/cheesing/min-maxing realms, which my groups are hardcore anti.
You play your character to be who they are - taking things that fit them as a person - not to be a mathematical juggernaut.
It's a role-playing game, and to forsake what makes sense for the character in favor of greater numbers is just sad.
That being said, I don't feel all cases of taking a couple levels of a PrC fall into the "twink/optimization/cheesing/min-maxing realms"
The problem here would be that it's a floodgate. While some people won't abuse it, most people will for mathematical advantage, and everyone will claim "that's not why".
Do you want to be the best at what you do? Absolutely.
Should you have to take smatterings of other classes to do it? No.
3.0 and 3.5 bred a take-it-all mentality with the sheer number of PrCs they offered.
Keep in mind, that in Pathfinder, almost every single PrC outside the core book is tied to an organization. They're not intended for you to just pick-up because you meet the entry requirements.
It's implied that you basically learn the ways from the organization somehow, and I'm pretty sure that they don't hand out how-to guides to their order's special talents like pamphlets on a corner.
The very notion of a Prestige Class... It's a prestigious path you take as an honor, not because you feel like it. Usually a life goal.
But arguing this point online won't gain me any ground.
That's what - five people who jumped on the "required to finish a PrC is absurd!" bandwagon, without a single person saying "I can understand, but..."?
There is a reason I stopped playing and running games online. So many people value the math over the story - and that's not how I operate.
Sorry... with all the backlash against, I felt compelled to explain the local reasoning why it's frowned upon.
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Back to the original topic though, to mplindustries, I've come to terms with the armor thing.
Looking to do a Haramaki, which can fit the image, and seek to have it enchanted, or maybe even do it myself if I need to, though it'll cost me two feats. Then again, at that point, I might as well go with the Arcane Bloodline via feats, and gain an AC bonus elsewhere (ring/amulet). Oooh, or maybe ignore the AC component and use the bloodline as an interesting way to augment their Katana, actually... that IS pretty flavorful... Hmm... (could even pick up defending in the long-run if I really want)
Either way, it'll be OK. Even if their AC is lower, their ability to end a combat quickly and/or endure strikes will be a saving grace.
Hell, with the sample stats rolled (which the GM saw), they'll have a 20 dex starting, which is not shabby at all.
As for level 20 being the end - that's not really the case in the games I've been part of.
Then again, that doesn't mean you're guaranteed to have the game last that far... but it's always encouraged that you play as-if you may.
Most games I play in generally have level 20 as the "sh*t gets real" level, with stories coming to a crazy finish of some-sort. Many of the games actually carry on quite a bit past that. While all the games use the Pathfinder guidelines, most of them are in custom campaign settings, which happily compliment the goal of hitting level 20 or greater.
Heck, my campaign setting has been fine-tuned over the last... (thinks) 17 years? It started as an idea when I was 13, and grew from its infancy over the years. One campaign effectively lasted 7 years, and the players STILL try to convince me to pick it back up from time to time, because they miss their characters and the world so much (I'm flattered but it had a fairly definitive end). It's evolved from 2nd edition, to 3.0, then 3.5, and ultimately fallen into Pathfinder where it happily rests (not the game itself - so much as the setting).
Boosh - found a better solution.
Point of reference:
Kitsune Sword Saint (Samurai Archetype). Order of the Warrior. Aiming to take "Extra Tail" the full 8 times.
Haramaki for armor (only +1 for a while), taking "Craft Magic Arms & Armor" at 5th.
(to augment their Katana and Haramaki - albeit with high Spellcraft DCs)
I ran through my head a question: "I get a lot of SLAs. Would that count for Craft Arms & Armor?"
Initially, the answer was looking like a strong "NO".
Lots of posts across a number of sites indicated that an SLA would not let you take it, or if it would, would not let you craft.
Then I found this (copy/pasted from Paizo FAQ):
Spell-Like Abilities and Item Crafting: Can I use a spell-like ability for an item's spell requirement?
Yes. Core Rulebook page 461, Requirements section, paragraph 2 says, "A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect."
For example, a demon with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and who has fireball as a spell-like ability can craft a +1 flaming sword, which has fireball as a prerequisite.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 06/06/13
(Link: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm )
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As the aforementioned mentioned demon has no levels in a spellcasting class, you draw 2 things:
1) I can take Craft Magic Arms & Armor at 5th level (when my SLA caster level is effectively 5)
2) I can use my SLA to supplement crafting - though even with the "Extra Tails" feat, it will be extremely limited.
Per the core book, under item creation:
"...The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.
The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory.
In addition, you cannot create spelltrigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites."
So, if with Spellcraft as class granted by a trait (or Craft skill with GM's permission per the creation section), and willing to take the 5-point-penalty per requirement not met (Magic Weapon generally), I could they could focus on making their own Haramaki and Katana, and at level 5, start enchanting them on their own. Furthermore, they could, with time invested, create multiples of each for their own collection.
I think I really like this option... and it fits the mystical spin really well, in fact.