Rageling's page

I'm sure most of us know the feats in this chain, so let me cut to the core: What about things that effect the weapon itself?

The weapon melds into your natural attacks.

What if you have specific feats or abilities that apply to the fused weapon? Would you gain those as well?

I mean things like Weapon Focus/Specialization, Improved Critical, or even more specific things like an Inspired Blade Swashbuckler's specific version of finesse?

I've read them over multiple times, and my best takeaway is a strong "maybe."

Thoughts and/or Cited Things?

Thanks!

Yeah, loosen the threads on a throw is the only 100% way (and still needs to be within 30ft), because it treats you as having thrown the object. It's a really niche circumstance either way, and one of those thoughts that plage me once it burrows in.

Thank you both for your quick responses. My head is a Ganzi birthing ground.

I've gotten myself into a bit of an argument about this combination, and am looking for other voices to chime in with thoughts.

There are essentially two interaction questions, and they both default back to: "would you get the 1d8 sneak attack, or the 1d4?"

Scenario 1:
Kinetic Blade. The ability says that the shape is strictly cosmetic, and doesn't use the weapon shapes anything. But there are two possible caveats here.

The first, is that Knife Master applies to a generally category of weapon forms. This argument is admittedly weak.

The second, is that Kinetic Blade works different for Aether kineticists. Hell, Aether kinetics work super different in lots of ways. An Aether kinetic does not make a form of energy. It specifically says it transfers the power to your held item. So what if that held item is a dagger? You wouldn't get the dagger's threat range or anything, but TK Kinetic Blade relies on the item.

I can't shake the feeling that this specific scenario would let you get your 1d8 instead of 1d4.

Scenario 2:
Throwing the dagger with TK Blast. You're attacking with a Kinetic Blast, but you have options when you TK blast.

You can hit for full blast damage.
Or you can "loosen the strands."

The latter let's you actually take advantage of the items properties, specifically, but you treat it as thrown (no blast damage but you can use CON instead of STR for the thrown damage).

I'm less washy here.
If you full blast damage, 1d4.
If you loosen, 1d8.

Is this wrong? Some people say yes.
Everything about the abilities imply no.

So really, the huge hangup is over how TK Blast interacts with Kinetic Blade, specifically.

Would it be 1d8, or 1d4 Sneak Attack?

TK does not behave like other blasts.
It even has special rules within KBlade.

Because of these, I'd say a KB when you're holding a dagger as the recepient, you're empowering, not forming, so you'd get the 1d8.

What does the greater community think?

Thanks in advance!

Hey all! Looking for some help with scouting and/or memory.

We're looking to do an in person game for the first time since the Panda, and I've been trying to find my character sheets to print out on Cardstock. (Old HDD died)

I was able to find HappyCampers sheets again (GM was hoping to use the class specific sheets), but I'm only finding the Core and APG classes, but we've got a Shaman and a Kineticist.

I feel like those (ACG & OA HappyCamper sheets) existed as well, but I'm not finding them anywhere.

Do they exist, or am I mistaken?
I swear there was one for Kineticist at the very least, because I remember tracking burn on one pre Panda.

Any help finding the others would be greatly appreciated!
(or a confirmation that they never existed could at least save me time. Heh.)

Subscribed to Dragon Magazine for over a year, and loved Paizo through that. One day, I was using a less than reputable website to find a D&D 3.5 resource I had apparently lost, and saw: "Pathfinder DnD 3.75 pdf" and was like... Wait, what?

Knowing nothing of it (it had literally JUST came out), curiosity got the better of me. After scrolling through the first 50 or so pages...
"This is like 3.5 but WAY better! The art is sweet too and kinda familiar. (flips to specific page) ...and they even improved Fighters?! Who the heck made this?! (checks back cover) Paizo. That explains EVERYTHING!"

Within 30 minutes of stumbling upon the Pathfinder Core Rulebook for the first time, on accident, I was on Amazon ordering a copy. I didn't need to read more of that shady data. I could wait til it was in my hands! Never turned back.

Been with PF ever since, and still run 1e for friends and even some 2e for a few conventions, but as an always GM, the sad fact is that I only got to actually play non NPC characters a handful of times in all of 1e's lifespan, and most of those were short lived, so I still very much want to be a player in 1e to this day. LOL

All the above, plus:

Spiritual weapon wrote:

It strikes as a spell, not as a weapon

Aye, that was actually the very reason for the first thought;

In zero place does it say the Cavalier's melee attack has to be with a weapon. So it still works with like, Chill Touch or Shocking Grasp and the like. Just not something so external as Spiritual Weapon / Ally.

Fair, well said, understood and agreed!
Thanks for batting this back and forth with me.
This got my head in the right space on it.

A fair assessment, but still I'm uncertain.

Indeed I had considered your quoted text. However, the conclusion I came to was for weapon-specific feats (Weapon Focus/Spec) and things like Power Attack and the like, which are actually combat actions.

Challenge is not something you keep activating. It's an ability more than say Vital Strike. It's a broad buff that doesn't care for what type of weapon or distance from foe, but rather form of attack, and it applies for the entirety of combat on all applicable actions. Spells that you generate are considered in all ways attacks made by you (see things like Invisibility and Sanctuary which Spiritual Weapon would break).

Also, to support that the quoted text is not a blanket application;
-- Spiritual Guardian (Feat)

That feat is a broad application - for the spell - vs a specific application regarding the type of weapon or special action, which I believe the quoted text is meant to address. Whereas Challenge simply applies to any of your attacks in Melee, and that it would likewise apply to Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp, keeps me on the fence.

[EDIT1: Also, Challenge does not effect the weapon (such as a Magus's Arcane Pool) as the line of text addresses - but rather YOU and by proxy the spell attack that belongs to you]

[EDIT2: Thinking more, Challenge says: "The cavalier’s melee attacks deal extra damage whenever the attacks are made against the target of his challenge." - meaning that it does not actually modify the weapon as is prohibited above, but rather the outcome. The spell is your attack, and the attack is performed in melee. I'm still leaning yes -- but I'm thinking it might be up to the GM really.]

Good day, fellow Pathfinder's!

Had an idea that I believe works a certain way, but there's a seed of doubt, so I figured I should reach out to y'all!

Cavalier Challenge adds your Cavalier level to your melee damage rolls.

What if you had the ability to cast Spiritual Weapon through multiclassing or the like?

Would you add +Cavalier level to the Spiritual Weapon's damage?

I'm thinking yes because...
1 - It's a melee attack that you are rolling.
2 - It draws on you for it's bonuses.
3 - Challenge does not specify that they must be adjacent or within reach, only that it applies to attacks in melee, which Spiritual Weapon does.

I'm pretty sure you add challenge damage to it.
Weird as that may be. But I hesitate.

Super neat and very specific situation.
Thoughts?

Paralysis sucks for sure. You can do purely mental stuff.
So if you had Still and/or Silent Spell (as applicable), you're good.

But what I'm curious about...
Are there any spells that can be cast, as-is, while Paralyzed? (Other than Psychic spells obviously)

I know there are several rare and situational things. Was curious if there were any for this.

Show me what you got!
(Though honestly I'm expecting nothing)

Thanks!

Shaman is a hybrid of Oracle and Witch.
Is there really no way to gain a spell from the Witch list as a Shaman? You can pull Cleric spells with heritage, but not Witch?

Trying to get a 1st Level Witch spell for something.
Any way I can make this happen?

(Lore Spirit won't work here)

Both spells affect a "Creature" or a "Target".

Here in, however, is the actual reason for the argument;

Acid Arrow
Range: long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: one arrow of acid
Duration: 1 round + 1 round per three levels
Saving Throw: none; Spell Resistance: no

Storm of Blades
Range close: (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: one creature
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: none; Spell Resistance: no

Acid Arrow (and spells like it) all reference that it creates the ammunition, which you are then responsible for attacking with, hence the AoO. You'll note that NONE of them have a Target entry, as Storm of Blades does.

Storm of Blades does not have an Effect entry referencing the blades it creates, like Acid Arrow and similar spells, and has a Target entry, unlike any of the spells used as a reference to apply their AoO standard to this spell.

Targeted Spells require only that you be able to target them, and the spell handles the rest. Thats been par for pretty much the entire history of Pathfinder, and even back into 3x. This one just happens to require you to make the rolls. I'm sure there are other spells that follow this format, that clearly would not provoke.

If it followed Acid Arrow (or Scorching Ray) logic, it would have;
Effect: 1 sword per 2 levels.
instead of its Target entry, and would specify "at a single creature within range" in the spell text instead, as is tradition (and is precisely how Scorching Ray handles it)

(further - a spell cannot roll for itself. That's literally impossible. That is why it has you roll. You are not attacking. The spell is, as Diego noted.)

While I agree with your logic...
Pause your certainty to consider this;

"You make a ranged attack roll [for] each sword"

Emphasis FOR and not WITH.
It's not an early spell ripe with errors.
It has not been errata'd (that I have found).
This appears to be intentional.

Pathfinder recognize the difference between "for" and "with" over it's history.

Attacking with a (thing) might provoke.
Making an attack roll as part of casting might.
Abilities that let you make a roll FOR someone/something do not. That someone/something is what would eat the AoO if susceptible to one.

You are not attacking.
The sword(s) (it/them)self is.
The spell itself is.
It is merely using your values.

Note that not one spell that I can think of off the top ofmy head, that requires a ranged attack roll, even lists a target. They tend reference the ammunition. (Double checked Acid Arrow and Scorching Ray to verify - and it holds)

The target is "one creature."
This places it in a different pool from the start.
Further, the only spells that specify a creature as the target and require an attack roll, are Melee Touch spells, which do not.

Scorching Ray clearly does, by wording.
Storm of Blades does not follow wording.

I argue it is different intentionally, and by design.
Else it would have been worded closer to Scorching Ray, which has existed since Day 1.

My schism is the illogical: FOR vs. WITH

EDIT: Note that even I have an ounce of doubt here, but I'm fairly confident in my assessment. That doubt is eating at me though.

Short and simple;

When using the spell Storm of Blades, do you provoke Attacks of Opportunity? I am in disagreement over this.

You make the rolls using your stats, but you yourself are not actually throwing or directing them like a ray or anything.

In fact, it says they are magically propelled.

Would you draw an AoO for the attacks made with this spell?
If so, would that be 1, or 1 per sword?

Based on the nature of the spell, I say nay.

I'm running a local game that is using Mythic (they're on the cusp of 4th tier), but none of them are the Heirophant path (weird party setup: UCRogue/Swashbuckler/PhantomBlade, Alchemist/BookInquisitor, PureUCMonk, Shifter). However, this is my first time through Mythic as a player, so I'm paying even closer attention to what I'm picking up.

That all makes proper sense to me, and is sort of what I was leaning.

Thanks for your insight Belafon! It is truly helpful.

Pretty straight-forward question with no obvious answer;
What is the actual range on Relentless Healing?

To recap the text,
"You can restore life to the recently dead. If a creature has died within 1 round, as a free action you can expend one use of mythic power to apply healing magic to that creature. This healing can be from a spell or effect you cause or from a magic item you wield. If this healing brings the creature's hit points above the threshold for death, it comes back to life and stabilizes at its new hit point total (similar to the way breath of life functions); otherwise, it remains dead.

Alternatively, you can expend two uses of mythic power on a dead creature that would have the ability to magically heal itself if it were alive (such as a dead cleric with a prepared cure light wounds spell) in order to trigger the most powerful healing magic it knows or has prepared. If this brings the creature's hit points above its death threshold, it returns to life."

I added a line break in there because the question comes in two parts. (Three actually)

First is - it says you can use healing from a spell or effect or item as a Free Action.
Does that mean you can just cast/use something AS a free action, or the healing up from death IS a free action taken while using something else to heal? I'd be leaning the second, however, Question Two (along with the lack of specificity) encourages me to think otherwise. It mentions that it can be from a "spell or effect you cause" - but also says it can also be from an item you wield. Would it be a rider for a spell or channel, but a free action to use an actual item?

The Second is - You can burn 2 Mythic to have them heal themselves with something. This clearly implies that the free action actually triggers the casting/healing/etc. Because you can't perform the free action while they cast something while dead. Literally impossible. That seems pretty straight forward, honestly, with one exception... What is the range at which you can trigger this? It doesn't list anything. Sight? Touch? Close? Long? This is a hugely important detail left missing.

The Third (bonus round) question is...
It doesn't seem to list the conditions under which the magic/ability/item is used.
Does this mean you could trigger a Mass Heal, painting multiple targets, so long as the dead one was included in the numbers? If we're going with "free action as part of another healing thing you do" this seems far less problematic. But what if the fallen ally actually has some sort of Mass Healing? Would they be able to cast the multi-target as part of ressing themselves? Further, you're spending the mythic points to trigger their healing. It uses their most powerful, but this seems to imply that YOU would choose targets for them. (What with being conscious and alive, that seems reasonable)

The biggest reason for which this is a hangup, would be the fact that it's clearly listed as a FREE action. Even if your own isn't Free (playing it as a rider on another Standard), that would be a Free action to possibly return multiple allies from the grave in a round... which is totally mythic bad-arse... but it strikes me as being stupid powerful (even for Mythic) as a thing you can take at Tier 1.

Beyond the basics...
Arcana, Any -- Throwing Magus (Returning)
Arcana, 9th -- Ghost Blade (Brilliant Energy, Ghost Touch)
Arcana, 9th -- Planar Hunter (Planar, Phase Locking)
Arcana, 15th -- Bane Blade (Bane)
Race -- Gnome -- (SEVERAL - through Favored Class options)

Are there any other ways to expand the list that a non-gnome Magus can draw from?

Particularly, I'm thinking Merciful, but things like Conductive could be great too.

If they had a feat equivalent to Expanded Metakinesis, that would be nice.

Standard choice: Evil Outsiders.

Do you just inflict the same damage as you would otherwise heal? Straight up? As if they were undead?

Further, what if you have a Variant Channeling?

Would this allow you to tactical nuke a specific type with the inflict effect debuff of an alternative channeling, without needing to actually channel negative energy?

I feel like this question would be a "hell no" for a standard feat, but mythic gets weird, and the wording leaves room for interpretation.

Mythic Vital Strike reads;
"Benefit: Whenever you use Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike, multiply the Strength bonus, magic bonus, and other bonuses that would normally be multiplied on a critical hit by the number of weapon damage dice you roll for that feat."

Let's say it's just Vital Strike (basic), and your total base +damage is +10 for math's sake.

Normal Greatsword would be 2d6+10.
But Vital Strike makes it 4d6+10.

Mythic says you multiply the total bonus by the dice.
Standard logic says 4d6+20...
But the wording seems to say it could be 4d6+40.

Again, I'd argue that's a Case A. ...if it weren't Mythic.
It could be sloppy wording, but I do have my doubts.

Thoughts? ...and with what to back it?
(Link's if able would be great)

One's the capstone of a Life Spirit Shaman.
The other is from Tier 3 Mythic. Weird mix, I know.

It's killing me that I can't actually find the original ruling about application.
(it wasn't about those two specifically - but about similar abilities)

One of them reads:
"When she is reduced to below 0 hit points, she doesn’t die until her negative hit point total exceeds double her Constitution score."

The other reads:
"In addition, you don’t die until your total number of negative hit points is equal to or greater than double your Constitution score."

I get the logic of them overlapping, rather than doubling.
However, I very very strongly remember reading years ago that these effects did interact in some additive way. I'm fairly confident, even.

My train is thinking back on it is that it works like Vital Strike does regarding a critical hit. You wouldn't double the double, but rather up the multiplier by one.

But there's this nagging bit in the back of my head telling me I was wrong, and that it doubles the double... but I can't for the life of me find the precedent for that. No friggin clue what happened to that bookmark.

That baffles me. It truly baffles me.
If you are Shaken, you "are not in enough control of your self" to cast emotion spells. But if you're Dominated - literally and completely not in control of yourself - ...you can? What about that makes even the tiniest fraction of sense?

Pretty straight forward.
Thought I had the answer bookmarked from WAY back. No luck.

If you have a CON of 15, you're dead at -15, obviously.
If some effects make that CONx2, or dead at -30.
If you have two different "CONx2" effects, is that dead at -45, or -60?

Thanks in advance!

But - and this is important;
Could they force you to use Psychic Magic requiring Emotion Components on your allies?

I'm having a lot of trouble finding something I swear I had read before.

Psychic magic. In particular, the Emotion descriptor.

I remember reading in some clarification that if your character was not in control of themselves, could not think or act on their own, that you could not cast. But upon re-reading the rules, they seem to be SPECIFICALLY about the Emotion descriptor spells.

How the hell would a Shaken effect shut you down, but not a DOMINATE effect? That has to, right? Despite not being an "Emotion Descriptor Spell" - it's still a Mind Effect that denies you control. I swear this was clarified somewhere, and cannot for the life of me find it now.

Any clarification (or help finding said clarification) would be greatly appreciated!

The main gripe seems to be with their spell lists.
Needless to say - I don't agree. I love the class!

What you said is what I was thinking originally.

As this game will likely go to 20, I need to decide - should I reach that point - whether I want the Life Spirit's cap or an alternate. Hmm.

Thanks!

So, I know Pathbuilder isn't official software or anything, but I did notice something interesting that I wanted to confirm.

Shaman class progression indicates that they get the major effect from their spirit at 20. However, the effect is actually under the Spirit itself (making the Level 20 note redundant/confusing). According to the app... you can just choose a capstone and lose nothing as a Shaman - just like a Wizard or Cleric - as the only actual thing gained at 20 is actually a byproduct of (and contained within) an earlier scaling ability.

Is that correct? Most people think Shaman need all the help they can get, and it looks like this is how it works, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Game-set-match - Well played!
That's the sort of definitive thing I was looking for.

Thanks Belafon!

That still leaves one problem though (technically two);
1) Does it heal according to Breath of Life, or Channel Energy?
2) If it heals as Breath of Life, what is the Caster Level?

After a lengthy conversation about this with a friend, we are still at odds. They think you use your class CL and treat it exactly as the spell, but were left without an easy solution when I mentioned the ways to get Channel (and thus Channeled Revival) without ever having a Caster Level (such as the Warrior of Holy Light archetype for Paladin).

I'm probably wrong here, I still think they work in tandem for the following reasons, and I truly welcome actual discourse on this;

- If it works as the spell, what is the CL?
(I think this might be the only spell Replication feat that doesn't include a CL calculation)
- If it uses your Channel Energy dice to heal, why wouldn't Reviving Channel be applicable?
- The feat itself even has Channel(ed) in the name, implying that it is channeling energy, though I am fully aware that argument is weak.
- If it works as the spell, and not as Channel Energy, why does it use Channel Energy's range instead of its normal range of Touch?

This one's bothering me. I'm pretty sure these two were meant to be symbiotic. Also, using Channel provides lower results, making their duality even more reasonable.
(6d6 Channel = 6 to 36 healing at 11th)
(10d6 Channel = 10 to 60 healing at 20th)
(5d8+11 minimum CL for BoL = 16 to 52 at 11th)
(5d8+20 = 25 to 60 at 20th with possible class boosts)

Everything mechanically says it should. People might argue that it does not, as it functions "as if" you had cast Breath of Life.

Examples.

Channeled Revival says:
"As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you can expend three uses of your channel energy class feature to restore a dead creature to life as if you had cast the breath of life spell."

Reviving Channel says:
"When you use channel energy, you can focus on one creature within range that would be healed by your channel energy whose hit points are below 0. When you do so, no other creatures are healed, but the target creature is restored to 0 hit points before the normal healing takes effect."

If the ally that's dead is say, at -50 HP, would they be put at zero before the Breath of Life equivalent effect? It is still healing caused by your Channel Energy ability, after all, regardless of what spell function it replicates, and it will only alter one target. Everything is laid out in a way that I think the answer is "Yes" - but there's always room for debate, and I've found nothing to support either direction.

Followup Question:
Do you heal them 6d6, or do you heal them 5d8+(???) ?

This is important, because while it says "like Breath of Life" - it makes zero mention of you using your actual level as the Caster Level of Breath of Life, thus failing to define what the actual healing bonus would be (inclining me to believe you would only heal what is normal for your Channel, making the combo of these two far more reasonable/valuable)

Thanks for humoring me!

So here's a weird question.
Totally random thought about unlikely setup.

Presuming a Kitsune would go 9-tails as a Magus... Is there a way, should they for some reason want to, for them to use their racial SLA as part of Spell Combat?

I'm thinking no. BUT!

There are Arcana for using staves of wands with it. So maybe?

Also, there's Broad Study...
Could you take that and choose your Creature Type?

Weird weird thoughts.

Good afternoon my fellows!

I have a few questions about the spell Shadowfade (from the Heroes of the Darklands supplement).

The spell is "Illusion (Shadow)"
It says that, in areas of darkness, the target of Shadowfade is invisible to creatures using darkvision to see it. In dim light, you instead have concealment against them.

My question is, how does this interact with other spells? A few in particular.

1&2) SEE INVISIBILITY & INVISIBILITY PURGE
This seems pretty straight forward, but I am convinced it does not work.
You are not ever actually invisible. You are invisible specifically to darkvision.
It doesn't render you invisible... it screws with darkvision, per the direct description.

If either of those worked against Shadowfade, why would it even exist vs. reg Invisibility?
It would be categorically inferior in just about every single way.

Both are 1min/Lv, both are broken by hostile actions.
One makes you outright invisible. "...becomes invisible."
The other makes you invisible only to a specific subset "...is invisible to..."

3) TRUE SEEING
This I feel is entirely straight forward. You see everything as it is.
This totally busts Shadowfade just as easily as actual Invisiblity.

My takeaway: Invisibility requires See Invis, Invis Purge and/or True Seeing to pierce. Shadowfade cannot be beaten by See Invis or Invis Purge, but even the cantrip Light or a simple torch can screw it up, let alone some stronger light producing spell or effect.

How do you all feel about this?
This spell, so many years later, CAN'T be outright useless in comparison.

I am saddened by the lack of answers after 9 days, and myself have the same inquiry.

I've been reading and re-reading this for nearly two hours...

This is the conclusion I've reached (and if anyone has proof to the contrary, please provide!)

Action: Standard (all wild talents are unless specified otherwise, and this isn't)

Range: Determined by the effect generated. Example: "An area with a radius of CR × 10 feet becomes utterly dark, as if from a deeper darkness spell." which leads me to think it's argument 2, as it says "an area" - implying the area can be decided. There are two arguments to be made;
--- 1) It's centered on the user, but the user can (or must) omit themselves, as they are effectively the source.
--- 2) The center can be placed in accordance with your max blast range, as many other wild talents with range can be improved by range wild talents.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it, your max blast range makes the most sense. It clearly should not be "any area that you can see" - as that defies all other abilities, and doesn't even list a range boost talent as a requirement. I'm standing by: "Created up to as far away as you could target with your blast" sorta range

The duration is either instantaneous, or specified by the effect.
As it's generated by you, on demand as an Aether Kinetic, it forces the event rather than creating a zone.

Further, the list presented is generic. Even calls itself a sample.
If you and your GM feel there are things better fitting Aether, can adjust.

That's my two coppers, and the result of hours. Heh

Righty right right.

The part that made me think it works, us that you add the enhancement bonus to the attack roll, and the other things are enhancement equivalent, hence the "If you'd add one, why not the other?"

(Shame too - the idea of a having an acid spell drop a die of fire for a burn, or d6 cold on a ray of enfeeblement are thematically great, and don't seem to break anything)

Parallel thought...
Would you instead add the full enhancement equivalent? Because, you know, equivalent? Like if it was +3 Flaming Burst, would you add +5 to your hit roll because Flaming Burst is invalid?

I'm surprised my searches haven't seemed to yield (in the first several Google pages) amnanswer to a thought I had - and the ability entry doesn't really cover it.

Slinger lets you fire the gun OR cast a spell THROUGH the gun. Pretty straight forward.

Spell gains weapon's enhance to hit. Cool.
Spell gets weapon's enhance to Save DC. Cool.

Mage Bullets let's you burn a spell to boost that enhancement, or add special qualities.

This is where my question enters.

If you give the gun a special property, say, Shock... Would the spell cast/fired _through_ the gun gain that +1d6 Electric?

The firearm boosts your crit multiplier (if one gun), and uses it's +hit for this to-hit. Stands to reason the spell would gain it too, right?

At least, I believe the spell would IF the spell cast through it requires an attack roll, considering a ranged weapon imparts its bonus on anything fired out of it.

I don't think it would apply to burning hands or fireball (no attack roll), but Scorching Ray perhaps?

I find it odd that the text does not specifically cover this as an absolute yes or no. I as a long-time GM have been bouncing this idea in my head all day. I feel it's reasonable and plausible, but it bugs me to not have an official yes or no.

Thoughts?

Forgot Glitterdust - but yeah.
You'd think there would be several more choices.

As the title says... Is this power actually useless?

I love the class, but once I re-read this entry, I face-palmed.

Based on invested mental focus, it increases your effective caster level for Conjuration Spells measure in rounds-per-level, for the purposes of duration only.

At a glance, that sounds great!
What's that? Mage Armor can be 2 hours at 1st level? Sweet!
Wait. ROUNDS per level spells only... OK, so which ones are there?

There... aren't any?

Correction. By level 10, there's ONE: Major Creation.
Even then, that's only for rare metal items.

Literally everything else I'm seeing before that.is measure in 1-minute, 10-minute, 1-hour, or 2-hour increments.

What am I missing here? I have to be missing something here.

We decided to go with Bolt Ace + weapon master. Kineticist was a pretty strong contender but my friend isn't *that* good with rules and that class is dense! Same principle applied to most spellcasters too.

Thanks everyone for the help and the great ideas!

Totally understandable! My current game, we have a person that has been playing for 5 or so years now, and he's running a Geokinetic... but... he's still stumbling through playing it and needing to recheck things. This is largely because he's usually not bothering to learn anything about it when we're not sitting at the table - but he's a father of two, so I completely understand his limited ability (though I do poke him for not using the off-week as we're every-other).

Either way - glad you found something that works!

Ahh, Samsaran... The race almost every caster player I know wants to be.

Huh. SRD tricked me, I guess. That, and my own eyes.
Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting: 09/2008
Pathfinder Core Rulebook: 08/2009
Thought it came out a month after, not a year prior. Whoops!

Faith Magic would be interesting for an EK of the same theory. I'm not sure where the Magaambyan Archetype is from, but I did check the PrC, though it seems to only give the GOOD domain itself - though still neat.

So unfortunately, it will need to be GM fiat - though I'm certain my group(s) would be OK with it. I'll probably stay completely Warpriest and seek permission due to omission. Looking to be a NG Warpriest of Erastil, Community & Good blessings, Archery/Vital Strike with Combat Advice and limited heal/buff at distance with Greater Status. A very "we are each other's strength" type.

Thanks!

Kineticist. To use weapons, go with aether for the element- you can launch those toothpicks hard enough to break through doors eventually, or just launch nearby boulders. Once you hit level seven (moreso level 11), you'll be doing less damage than other elements, but until then, it's good.

Oh man - go Geokinetic, and max out Disguise! Get enough burn, and you can pretend to be an Ioun Stone on another player!

I know, I know, it's ludicrous - but I just had to share that image.

That being said... Yeah, I think Kineticist might be a great option either way, as the damage doesn't rely on size, and could give you an interesting mix of things. Telekinetic would give lots of amusing options, though Geo would provide a variety of damage types and defenses. Though personally, I'd go with with either Air or Void. A super small gravity manipulator sounds like a lot of fun - but I'd have to resist naming them Singularity, or Sing to their friends.

Good day, Pathfinders!

I've got a few ideas rolling around my head, but I'm having trouble gluing them together, so-to-say.
My knowledge of Pathfinder things is by no means shallow, but I know there are plenty here far greater than my own, so I turn to the collective.

Rather than detail the would-be character, let me layout my goal.

Trying to access Sacred Weapon & Domain Spells - in a non-3P way.

Ideally, I'd love to stay Full20 on the Warpriest, so if anyone knows of a way to access Domain Spells as one, that would be great! Their blessings are nice, but Greater Status can only be obtained via the Community domain (as far as I know), and that spell is PERFECT for the concept. I know that most GM would be willing to let you take it anyway, considering how isolated it is, but I'm trying to find a BTB way.

I know that Fighters can get Sacred Weapon damage scaling through alternate Weapon Training options, but that wouldn't kick in until 9th, and even with an Eldritch Knight-eque option for Divine Caster, access to the magic would take a long time.

That got me thinking of other options/combinations that may fit the character well, so as a bonus inquiry: Anyone have a summary of classes/archetypes that can take a Domain?

I'm guessing feat-wise...
1) Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike -- As you'll be relying on actual unarmed strikes to land your damage.
2) Toughness -- Twofold: First, helps if you need to eat burn. Second, you'll be up-front, so HP is good.
3) Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast -- Will benefit Kinetic Whip (if you choose to take it) and/or standard blasts, when you need them.
4) Two Weapon Fighting -- If you bump Dex a point for it. This will get you more out of Kinetic Fist. (Otherwise, Iron Will?)

As a 7th level character, your blast would be 4d6.
That means Kinetic Fist would only add 1d6 to your unarmed attack (1 per 3 dice it normally deals, minimum 1d6).

I like the flavor of this talent, but feel it's more painful to use than Kinetic Blade. (losing 2/3 your blast damage).
This makes me think there's probably some Archetype ordered that gives you Flurry of Blows -- Can't think why else it would do this.

As for equipment... Amulet of Mighty Fists or Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes?
With TWF -- Amulet.(16k) Either +2 for your unarmed, or +1 and Shocking (for an extra d6 electric).
W/O TWF -- Body Wrap. (12k) As above (either +2 or +1 & Shocking)

That's my at-a-glance suggestion. If anything else comes to mind, I'll let you know.

Belt of Physical Might +2 (STR/CON) (10k - Total 22k-26k) -- More HP, more hit/damage.

Cloak of Resistance +2 (4k -- total 26k-30k)

Chain Shirt +2 (4k -- Total 30k-34k -- +1 if Amulet of Mighty Fists)

Ring of Protection +1 (2k -- Would be 32k with Wrap, less with +1 Mighty Fists).

Assuming the wrap, you'd have AC 19 (18 with Amulet) before possible defensive buffs.
HP would be OK -- Ability to land your Unarmed Strikes would have better odds.

That's my at-a-glance suggestion. If anything else comes to mind, I'll let you know.
(EDIT: You get your Talents as indicated on the level chart. They're staggered odd like that, instead of set pattern, due to ability acquisition if I understand Mark right, so 1/2/4/6/7/8/10/12/14/15/16/18/20)

OK, so this might seem weird to some people, but quite often a character concept will hit me while I'm listening to music.
Sometimes the words have something to do with it (though not often) and sometimes it's just my mind playing a mini-movie with the concept.
Either way, I've had some fantastic character concepts via this method, both for those I've played and NPCs.

Today's offender? -- "The Pretender" by Infected Mushroom (a Foo Fighters cover), off their 2012 album Army of Mushrooms. (check it on YouTube if curious)
They've got a weird name, but are my newest music addiction, and I think they're fantastic - but that's not the point.

Just doing other stuff, this song rolls onto my playlist. ...and into my mind, rolls a BA Magma Kineticist. Very tanky. Very up-close-and-personal.
The kind of person that, when the party decides to try and run, insists on staying behind to delay the foe for their safety. "I'll make them pay for every gods-forsaken step they take."

OK brain - Challenge Accepted! But how to do it?
(Please Note: When I think like this, optimization isn't really the goal - more making the concept at least slightly viable)

So considering the character, let's assume stats 14/14/16/10/10/10 (20pt buy) BEFORE racial anything.

Human seems like the understandably standard choice. Stats 14/14/18/10/10/10.
Hobgoblin... Could be both Stat advantageous, and provide interesting story flavor. Stats 14/16/18/10/10/10.

Figure 8th Level for the full initial effect.

Humoring a Hobgoblin named "Shard" with, with Intimidate alternate racial, and average WBL...
Belt of Physical Perfection +2 (16k), Menacing AOMF (4k - Thanks Mark!), Chain Shirt +3 (9k), Ring of Protection +1 (2k), Cloak of Resistance +1 (2k) = 33k and the exact WBL total.

Shard, the Hobgoblin Geothermal Kineticist:
HP: 107 (8 from 1st level, 35 Lv 2-8, 8 Toughness, 48 Con, 8 favored class)
STR: 16 -- DEX: 18 -- CON: 22 -- INT: 10 -- WIS: 10 -- CHA: 10
FORT: +13 -- REF: +11 -- WILL: +3 (ouch - might want Iron Will and/or a trait bonus)

While it would be pretty awesome to have hybrid elemental forms (such as magma), and/or the ability to treat the "form" as basically an boosted sense of Feel the Burn's visual rather than turning into an elemental (such as with Bracers of Falcon's Aim), I'm digging the Earth/Fire defense together.

Far as I can tell, there's nothing saying you can't have both defenses up at once - they just take their respective actions, so two turns.
Round 1) Move up, blast as appropriate, trigger Earth Defense for DR 4/Adamantine.
Round 2) Close gap (can you trigger Kinetic Blade on a charge?), Blast/Swing as appropriate, trigger Fire Defense for 1d8 backlash.

Thematically, you'd look like you were rocking Magma Armor.

I don't think this character is optimal at all... but damn do I love the feel!

This is the part where I ask for feedback on the thought.
I'd prefer to avoid negative stats - so with that in mind, any thoughts on how to make it more effective without taking too much (if any) away?
For a while, I was toying with the idea of of a few levels in a martial class for some bonus armor and combat tricks.

What would you change? What would you add?
Would you consider dipping a full BAB class, and if so, what and why?

Regarding OP's "Everything Burns" (all potential Pyros want something like this!);
I like this, but I was thinking more along the lines of the old Searing Spell Metamagic feat.

Specifically, I was thinking of a means that would not (under normal circumstances) be able to pair with Pure Flame.
Bypassing Res/Immunity AND SR seems like it would be too juicy.

What I spun was:
"Soulfire"
Element: Fire; Type: Substance Infusion; Level: 6; Burn: 3
Prerequisite: Kineticist level 10th
Associated Blasts: Fire, Blue Flame, Magma, Plasma, Steam (other +Fire as revealed)

Drawing from the very origin of flame, your blasts take on a metaphysical quality, becoming far more intense than nature would allow. Seeming more maroon or even violet in color, these blasts flicker with an eerie light that illustrates well their unnatural state.
This blast ignores Fire Resistance. Creatures with the the Cold subtype take double damage (+100% rather than +50%). Even creatures with Fire Immunity still take half damage (1/4 on a successful save if allowed).

Also, while I'm here, I'll throw out couple that I really just want for flavor...

"Aether Juggling"
Element: Aether; Type: Substance Infusion; Level: 3; Burn: 1
Prerequisite: Kinetic Blade, Kineticist level 5th
Associated Blasts: Telekinetic

With finer manipulation of aether, you are able to strike more precisely. When using your Telekinetic Blast to throw a magical weapon, your blast benefits from any enhancement bonuses the weapon may have, as well as special qualities it may possess. You do not gain the weapon's base damage, nor it's threat range or critical hit multiplier. If this weapon has the Returning property, and was held before being used for this blast, it returns to you as normal for a Returning weapon.

"Aether Dancing"
Element: Aether; Type: Substance Infusion; Level: 5; Burn: 2
Prerequisite: Kineticist level 8th, Aether Juggling, Kinetic Blade
Associated Blasts: Telekinetic

By using a weapon as the focus for your Telekinetic Blast, the weapon can be further "animated" to fight in your stead at a distance. This Substance infusion allows you to use the full attack action with a blast infused weapon, at a maximum range equal to that of your blast (including any Form infusions that increase range). This blast acts in all other ways like Aether Juggling, except non-proficiency penalties apply when a weapon is used in this manner.

(I'm sure any of these could use some re-wording, but you get the ideas)

My last post in this thread was fearful of the outcome and somewhat emotion driven.
One GM previously banned the Warlock class because it was effectively infinite - years later, summoner's 50/50 ban - especially the Synthesist archetype (100% ban from the games of the one guy I feel could do the concept story justice) - killing one of the more interesting concepts I've had, because people abused the crud out of it. My past GM discretion as odd as it is, I was/am having some mild PTSD regarding these two things possibly repeating themselves in a Kineticist.

I am (probably) just going to sit back and see where it goes after this post, to avoid more of my previous.

As a final hurrah, my compiled suggestions/thoughts:

1) They should get Weapon Focus: Blast for free at first. Not a single respectable Kinetic will pass on this, so why make them burn a feat for it?

2) The ability for each Kineticist to effectively shape their element entirely (as in First Sculptor but with greater capacity for misc. flavor) feels like a must.

3) Would be nice if Aether users could get a Substance Infusion that let them use the thrown item's properties for damage at least (if not hit) and misc effects, boosted by the kinetic force - probably not threat range though, because throwing Scimitar would become brutal. Could make for some interesting use of the "Returning" property, add a lot of flavor, and give them a little something it feels like they're lacking in comparison.

4) Aether - Kinetic Haul: Hits one target for standard blast damage despite weight/size of object thrown... It just doesn't sit right with me. This conflicting data makes me twitch.

Mark Seifter - I have total faith in you that this will become the class you (and many others) want it to be. I'm bowing out for now.
I salute you, and look forward whatever revision (if any) there may be to the PT docs (and if there aren't any I'll eagerly await the book).

There are two conclusions I have reached so far via this class and this thread (beside liking it):
1) The class could use 4+Int skill points, and a boost on to-hit with blast - though how is uncertain.
2) When people get upset that the burn mechanic exists, I feel like a good portion of them don't actually like the class as a concept, and instead are looking for something they can crack open like an egg - because burn presents a good means to prevent that. Is burn a good thing? No, and it's not supposed to be - but it is an interesting and unique way to handle something like this. Unique is good. If the burn mechanic makes you hate this class, then clearly this class isn't for you. There are plenty of other options that can be bent to whatever GM-twitch-inducing purpose you want. =P

This is just my opinion based interpretation. I just hope people can be reasonable, and let the limitation exist. It must.
I don't need another class getting banned from games, PFS or otherwise (I'm looking at Summoner - particularly Synthesist).

Did you give the Kineticist equal access to items?

I'm guessing even if they didn't, it gives a lot more misc. item room.

So if kinetic blade isn't the weapon what weapon focus do you take? Do you take weapon focus kinetic blast and it works with all variations? Do you take itwith specific blasts?

I assume that feats that apply to weapons like focus, spec or improved crit would not apply to a kinetic blade in the form of that weapon.

Well, my statement hasn't been corrected by anyone yet, so I'm guessing my assessment was right:

The Kinetic Blade or Whip - as pushed by text and driven by the fact that you're using a FORM infusion - IS your blast.
You do not have an actual weapon. You have a blast. That you're using like a weapon.

Weapon Focus: Whip wouldn't apply, because while it acts like a whip, it is actually your kinetic blast you are condensing and shaping for an alternative use. Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast would apply to anything where-in you're using your Kinetic Blast's stats (Interacting with AC/DR/SR), regardless of form - the sole exception of which is Kinetic Fist, because it specifically relies on your Unarmed Strikes / Natural Weapons, much like the Flaming or Shocking weapon properties, but stronger (Kinetic Fist also specifically says it ignores SR and receives none of your blast damage modifiers such as Con).

How does the Allying weapon property interact with Kinetic Blade?

Can you use Kinetic Cover for horizontal planes or just vertical, or push one over? Can you stack the wall on top of another?

If the kinetic blade is a monk weapon can you flurry with it?

When putting on shroud of water can i encase myself in a block of ice and shatter it coming out in ice armor?

How and what can a kineticist retrain?

Kinetic Blade isn't an actual weapon, so it can't be enchanted to have any weapon mods (if that's what you meant by Allying?).

Kinda wondered too if it must be affixed to something, or if you could create like, a sheet above you.

Kinetic blade resembles an applicable weapon, but is not said weapon, and uses none of its mechanics. Not even with Aether. You use your blast damage, it's always 20/x2 (unless you have Imp Crit for your blast), and none of your weapon properties apply. I know this has been tagged at least a few times in the thread.

Unless you somehow found a way to make "Kinetic Blast" a Monk weapon - not simply LOOK like a monk weapon - then I'm going to go with no. I'm guessing this idea is why they created Kinetic fist.

As for retraining - never used it in any of my games (never had a need).
No idea, and I don't think it was covered previously, so good question!

With the ability to use Weapon Focus for the Kinetic Blast, Blade, or Whip. do you have to select a Weapon Focus for each, or does Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast) covers all three?

For the Kinetic Blade creating a weapon, do you get the Weapon's Critical Threat Range/Multiplier, or is it just simply 20/x2 due to using the Kinetic Blast damage?

My understanding (per all the previous), is that a Kinetic Blast is a Kinetic Blast, and all Blade/Whip do, is shape or solidify it (hence the temporary nature). By this, weapon focus would I think apply to Blast/Blade/Whip, but I'm not 100% on Fist.

As for getting the created weapon's threat, as above, I can say with certainty: No.
It resembles such a weapon, but is still actually your blast made manifest.
Though (again as above), if you took Improved Crit: Kinetic Blast, it should in theory work for Blast/Blade/Whip.

I like it with the assumption that it's added to the blasts cost and can be reduced. For example, I gather energy then toss a normal blast with bonus to hit = no burn taken. I'd also make the second one a normal adition instead of an immediate action. I'd want to add that to a normal blast so I could reduce that 1 burn cost with gathering energy.

I'm also thinking about an effect like the Flagellant. Instead of all that nonlethal damage bringing you closer to a KO, it takes you closer to a detrimental effect. I'd rather not see 'taxing' as laying down on the ground but taking penalties.

Huh. Apparently in my edit for wording, I pulled that part.

If you made the second one a "normal" action...? Like a standard action? I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
The second one was meant to be defensive, reactive, to your native element, showing an affinity for dealing with it. Wouldn't make sense as a standard action.
Reactive costs you burn. Anticipating such an attack, you can effectively ready your move action to cut the burn by 1.

I think allowing them to boost their to-hit and cut a defense cost in the same round would be entirely too good.

How would the Feat, Endure Pain, would work with Burn?

Already answered, but I was thinking, maybe I'm wrong on how I interpret the non-lethal?

On a side, I kinda like Flagellant being an evil-inclined feat structure. Can help build a better Kineticist villain... Heh heh heh.