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Latest one, a nice long discussion, some brilliant points on the editions and how gaming has changed (and the divide/mixing with mmos) by people like Vincent Takeda, Adamantine Dragon, Fabius Maximus, then it gets closed because of a few hostile posters.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pwl3&page=4?MMOs-are-evil#161
What the hell mods? Stop killing the good threads on gaming, in gamer talk!
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These are always fun to watch.
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I've got the popcorn.
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...then it gets closed because of a few hostile posters....
What the hell mods? Stop killing the good threads on gaming, in gamer talk!
What the hell posters? Stop being hostile!
It is the internet, and the exchange of opinions. So yes, you will inevitably get some great posts, and some hostile petty posts. Kill the threads, you hit both because of one side. That hardly seems right to me.
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Round 4: FIGHT
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Latest one, a nice long discussion, some brilliant points on the editions and how gaming has changed (and the divide/mixing with mmos) by people like Vincent Takeda, Adamantine Dragon, Fabius Maximus, then it gets closed because of a few hostile posters.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pwl3&page=4?MMOs-are-evil#161
What the hell mods? Stop killing the good threads on gaming, in gamer talk!
For anyone interested in reading it, the thread is still there. Bonus: a bunch of the threadcrapping has been removed. Locking the thread ensures mods don't have to keep revisiting it over and over again because the same people keep pooping it up. Care and feeding of the forum is their secondary responsibility, and honestly, I'd rather see them spending their time churning out nice products.
-Skeld
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Thread is there, not too useful if its locked though.
I didn't think it would turn into a lot of arguing and 4E talk when I made it. MMO was in the title, but a lot of the talked turned into 4E and not all of it was admirable. I did like some of the stuff that was said, but oh well. I got plenty of information and ideas out of it.
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That hardly seems right to me.
Gosh. Imagine my surprise.
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Locking the thread ensures mods don't have to keep revisiting it over and over again because the same people keep pooping it up. Care and feeding of the forum is their secondary responsibility, and honestly, I'd rather see them spending their time churning out nice products.
-Skeld
A thousand times, this.
Paizo isn't obligated to host a forum at all--that they do provides many of us a fantastic opportunity to interact, share ideas, expand our knowledge base, draw on areas of expertise we don't have ourselves, and so on.
Yes, a few people can ruin it for everyone. Maybe, if someone posted an inflammatory thread and NO ONE acknowledged it, responded to it, or otherwise engaged the poster, it would be fine. But how often is that the case?
The least we can do, as posters, is to behave in a civil manner, keep to the topic of posts, and--above all--follow the guidelines WE ALL AGREED TO when we created our accounts.
I've said it before--the mods have to maintain that delicate balance between open communication (NOT free speech) and control over what sort of language/behavior appears on a site branded with their name and interwoven with their product line. They do a commendable job, and I'd rather see them err on the side of caution and shut down a potentially heated thread so they can get back to their real job and stop babysitting the petulant lot of us.
Complaining about the job they are forced to do because a few of us can't restrain ourselves, and getting snarky about how they respond to criticism, isn't going to help. If it were my forum, I'd be banning people--and IP addresses--instead of locking threads.
Give them a break.
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I vote Gorbacz.
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The solution to that is to have unofficial moderators; have someone at Paizo who just has to moderate the moderator's activity.
Who will moderate the moderator moderators?
In the UK, at least, if you run a moderated site you can be held liable if you dont act to remove illegal material (I think that extends to pornographic material which is publically accessible, but I've more seen it referred to with respect to libel and so forth). As I understand things, the risks of an unmoderated site are less but there are presumptions that certain types of sites require moderation (ie some kind of 'reasonable person' test).
That's third hand knowledge though (a friend looking to host a site got legal advice and was predominantly interested in European law).
Well this isn't porn (at least not anything I'm into), I would just like the threads, especially gamer talk and threads with a lot of differing opinions all contributing, to be able to stay open.
I read, I find some good stuff and like what I am reading, time to post! Argh, locked again. Antimony, it is not a "fantastic opportunity" with the number of threads that keep getting shut.
The attack of opportunity thread lock prevents further actions in that thread. The opportunity is ended, quite deliberately. :)
Sure and the site owner's agree (they'd much rather not have to lock threads). Nonetheless, in their view, the alternative is worse.
Sure and the site owner's agree (they'd much rather not have to lock threads). Nonetheless, in their view, the alternative is worse.
There is no "have to".
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The solution to that is to have unofficial moderators; have someone at Paizo who just has to moderate the moderator's activity.Who will moderate the moderator moderators?
Who watches the watchmen's watchers? We should get someone to watch them to, to make sure they're watching.
I suppose you could ask your own questions later, preferably different questions and a better conversation might be started. Can't help what other people do on a thread sometimes.
Sure and the site owner's agree (they'd much rather not have to lock threads). Nonetheless, in their view, the alternative is worse.There is no "have to".
They have to make a choice (to lock threads or not).
What else should they do but choose what they think will give the best outcome?
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If you would like to continue discussions that have been locked, join this board and continue them. Will create sub-forums when I have time (probably after the 4th.)
we could get into the reason and logic of this, but it looks like what he's talking about is how you are creating a false scenario.
They don't have to make a choice on it because they don't have to deliberate on whether or not to lock threads just like I don't have to decide on whether to eat cookies or pie when neither of them are in my house. It's a voluntary choice on deliberating on threads.
Sure. My point is that, given they think locking the occasional thread improves the quality of the forums, they have to lock threads if they wish to remain rational.
If my word choice was objectionable, allow me to rephrase it:
"Sure and the site's owners agree (they'd much rather not lock threads). Nonetheless, in their view, the alternative is worse."
Apologies for the confusion.
I was referring to his confusion.
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Btw, I highly doubt people will port over to a new forum just to argue about a thread from here. You never know though.
Me too, but I reject 3.5 Loyalists's premise that there are a whole bunch of disenfranchised posters desperate to continue their unjustly silenced conversations.
If he's right, there will no doubt be much robust, unfettered debate.
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Personally I think people should get much more angry at those folks that posted the lame or hostile posts. Let's not forget - they THEY are the reason Paizo felt obligated to lock the thread. Don't come down on Paizo, come down on the posters whose bad behavior ruined it for everyone else.
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In the ancient days, the great threads rose, full of wonder and great discussion and powerful conversation that made the heavens shake.
Then the trolls came, and overwhelmed the storied halls, and their gibbering set all to madness and rage.
The forum mods in their wisdom did seal the halls of these overwhelmed debates, leaving glittering insights only for those brave enough to seek them.
Be you so brave?
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Sorry for the purple prose. Didn't even read the thread in question, but this whole conversation sounds like some sort of Moria style adventure lead up.
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And then this thread got locked.
Could be worse. Over at Bethesda's forums(Elder Scrolls, etc), they close every thread that reaches 250 posts. So, even if the thread is going strong, a great conversation is taking place, POOF! Locked on post 251.
Why discriminate against Australia? Did a kangaroo steal your wife?
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I'm not married yet, that comes next September! As to why - I heard that continent is populated solely by kangaroos, koalas and murderous multiple convicts who can kill you with a matchstick, so anybody posting from there is either an intelligent animal or shouldn't be really allowed to use the Internet for everybody's sake.
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I'm not ashamed to admit I'm amused at these "stop locking threads" getting repeatedly locked for continuing to try to revive topics that have been locked in the past. Partially out of irony, partially out of spite.
I'm not married yet, that comes next September! As to why - I heard that continent is populated solely by kangaroos, koalas and murderous multiple convicts who can kill you with a matchstick, so anybody posting from there is either an intelligent animal or shouldn't be really allowed to use the Internet for everybody's sake.
What's wrong with intelligent animals posting on internet? Are you afraid that their presence will increase average IQ of internet users?
And yet they have trouble with bunny rabbits.
Go fig.
We kill them. They just keep coming.
Latest one, a nice long discussion, some brilliant points on the editions and how gaming has changed (and the divide/mixing with mmos) by people like Vincent Takeda, Adamantine Dragon, Fabius Maximus, then it gets closed because of a few hostile posters.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pwl3&page=4?MMOs-are-evil#161
What the hell mods? Stop killing the good threads on gaming, in gamer talk!
Eh, that thread was doomed when someone brought 4e into it, and yes, I contributed to that. But in knew what I was getting into. I'm a bit confused that you didn't notice it as well.
It is a game, it is in gamer talk, it was being talked about, why was it doomed?
Why did it have to end like this? :D
Oh man, thank you! I thought you were going to stop after the third one, but you were just getting ready for more!
Since this is the very same thread, basically, I figure it's fair game to respond to things from that thread that we didn't have time to get to. Accordingly:
The fun part is that bans are never announced. People just vanish. I like it. They never get the parting shot, and it makes forgetting they ever existed oh so much easier.
In this case, I suspect the silence will speak volumes.
And yet they have trouble with bunny rabbits.
Go fig.
All the rabbits have Myxomatosis look it up its not pretty - Zombie leper bunnies.
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Oh man, thank you! I thought you were going to stop after the third one, but you were just getting ready for more!
Since this is the very same thread, basically, I figure it's fair game to respond to things from that thread that we didn't have time to get to. Accordingly:
The fun part is that bans are never announced. People just vanish. I like it. They never get the parting shot, and it makes forgetting they ever existed oh so much easier.In this case, I suspect the silence will speak volumes.
Some of them just come back as sockpuppets.
I think the mods generally lock to late rather than too soon, but I also think sometimes they come into a thread that has calmed down and think it is still hostile based on old posts that have already been digested and moved down the line.
I do think more consideration of timestamp should be made, and I do wish they would call out specific posters in the "calm down" comment more often rather than a generic "everyone".
And yes, I do realize it would include my name quite often. But that is kind of the point. Those of us who are more...how do I put this...provocative, aren't going to be particularly offended for being called out on it. Because, well, calling people out is what we are doing to be provocative. It would be hypocritical to not accept the same in return.
But it isn't my messageboard, so if they don't want a thread to continue, they can close it out.
Like this one will be fairly soon :)