So my DM is a jerk and I want to make a character to respond in kind

[Grimmy]

Yikes

[JonGarrett]

Oh goody, another thread to be derailed by the random sexist crap...

But yes, as most people say, it's not worth the hassle. I'd talk to the guy, tell him you're genuinely upset that your character died to bad dice when you weren't even there to roll them, and that you have no investment in the other campaign, so you're sitting it out.

There's really no point in being there just to ruin another guy's experience. All it's likely to do is burn bridges. Tell the guy what he did wrong, though, and he might learn to be a better player.

If you really want to 'show him' start running another game - on a different day - and invite him to play, so he can see how GMing goes when done by someone who can handle anything other than a linear path plot.

[AdrianGM]

I also want to add, since after those sessions playing with the EVIL GM, I accumulated enough experience to in the end try myself to be a GM. In my opinion, since I didn't torture my PCs (ok, the only case that should be familiar to PCs is that when they make problems and a lot of trouble or even kill someone innocent or anything violently, any PCs shouldn't be surprised if, for an example, a Paladin appears and wants to SMITE them, as I like to say, EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION), and I never killed the PCs just because they made me mad or just to take revenge on them for something stupid, I think I am far better GM than that EVIL GM. My only big mistake while I was GMing is that in 90% of cases I forgot to put traps in dungeons etc. I was praised about the complexity and in-depth of the story, campaigns, NPCs (when it's about NPCs, they praised my ability to remember all the names of the 100+ NPCs they encountered on their way, and plus having a background for all of them), and many other. But in the end, after 40 sessions while I was GM (and I even think I did a great job as GM because of the 40 sessions, I don't know if anyone managed to hold that long of all people I know that where GMs), we stopped playing because of the fellow players, I don't want to mention all, I had enough of the player playing the Paladin that gone rogue.

Anyway, after few months of freedom, reading pathfinder books, making new puzzles, mazes, labyrinths, dungeons, new stories etc. I think that maybe tomorrow or next few days, I will have the privilege to be a GM once again, I will be GMing to my best female friend, since she is a huge fan of Legolas, and I told her a few times about Pathfinder and how it goes, she wants to try herself as a Ranger. And since me and my friend we never argued about anything in this past 4 years, I think that everything will be great and ok, since I always favor players and cheer for them to beat my challenges, the only thing that can go wrong, and that I just hope it won't happen all of a sudden, is to kill her because of the dice rolls (rolling 20s like crazy, critical after critical and kill, it happens sometimes).

[AdrianGM]

And silverkyo, my friend, I think, as some people here have said, that it's best to talk to that GM and tell him that what he did to you was wrong, that this Pathfinder RPG should be really about having fun after all the hard work and private life problems we have everyday. So, if after say all of it right to his face, and if he still remains a "dick" as you say, then you can tell him to GTFO :) Or, since it's your life and we all here won't bother you doing what you really want, if he is suck a "dick", then make a new character, a sorcerer, pick fire spells and make him extra crispy :D

[AdrianGM]

Ooops, I wanted to say: "such a dick". My mistake :)

[Erikkerik]

AdrianGM wrote:

Ooops, I wanted to say: "such a dick". My mistake :)

Lol, i think that's what they call a Freudian mistake

[soupturtle]

You can make a character with an insane intimidate score, and basically ruin all the NPC interactions in the game. Everyone will help you, period. Half orc inquisitor, conversion inquisition, intimidating prowess, skill focus intimidate. Dip a level of thug rogue and make it awesome in combat as well, as you make pretty much anything frightened. Probably skip the dazzling display feat line (although they are nice, but you don't get that many feats) and instead get cornugon smash and cast blistering invective a lot.

Off course, this isn't really the adult solution. But it's much more fun to try to come up with a character that'll break a game than it is to give sensible and responsible adult advice. ;-)

[blackbloodtroll]

I still don't see why anyone would advocate these passive-aggressive tactics.

Why do you think it end with a positive result?

Have you ever seen/heard of someone using these methods, and end up with a positive result?

Bad behavior met with bad behavior does not end with sunshine and rainbows.

[John Kerpan]

The problem here is that the OP is not looking for a positive result. He is looking for revenge, and hopefully will never have to interact with this GM or these players again in real life.

Do not burn bridges. You could even talk to him in person, saying you felt a little burnt out as a player, and wish to take a break. While on sabbatical, ask him how the campaign is going, and try to start a discussion about how his railroading and poor adventure writing made you feel, laughingly admit that you were planning on killing his next campaign, and see if you cannot get his to re-evaluate his methods in a much more neutral way.

[Chemlak]

I generally agree with BBT's war on passive-aggressive behaviour. All it does is upset people.

Have a frank and honest discussion with him. No need to pull your punches, but don't be a dick yourself, because that makes you as squarely to blame as him, for failing to handle things in a mature way.

Learn this phrase, love this phrase, this phrase is your lifeline: "I feel unhappy because..."

Nobody can ever tell you that what you are feeling is "wrong". Your feelings are your feelings. You may feel the way you do because of a mistake on your part, but it is the mistake that is wrong, not the feelings.

Avoid phrases like "unfair", since for all you know the character picked upon may have been chosen by a dice roll, which is about as fair as it gets. Instead turn it into a social mistake on the other person's part: "I feel unhappy because I think it is inappropriate for my character to be killed by the luck of the dice when I wasn't present." Don't get defensive. State your case, then ask for his (and everyone else's) help in ensuring that it doesn't happen again.

You'll all come out of it as better people.

[meatrace]

Don't listen to these naysayers.
Give 'im hell, son, and godspeed!

[Jodokai]

Rynjin wrote:

Play a Synthesist.

Most DMs get all flabbergastery over them for some reason.

For some reason, yeah like it's a complete mystery O_o

[A highly regarded expert]

I'm so glad my gaming group is nothing like this... We just play to have fun.

[Captain Marsh]

This is kind of an illustration of the problem that I think would be solved by creation of something like an "Ultimate: Pathfinder Player" guide.

That discussion here. paizo.com/threads/rzs2pw5w?Needed-A-howto-guide-for-PF-players

In this situation, which is incredibly common, you have people who aren't actually playing RPGs anymore.

They're just acting out weird personal and interpersonal problems at the gaming table.

My point in the other thread is that the best ruleset in the world won't work if we don't get better as DMs and players.

And a general "be nice and have fun" doesn't cut it.

We need people to have better ideas about what makes a good player and how players interact with the storytelling process.

Especially when problems arise, too many players just don't have a vocabulary for how to talk through or think about the problem.

The OP talks about players "breaking" their DMs campaign. But that's not the way to solve a "railroading" narrative.

That's the moment when players should have a really in-depth conversation with a DM about the story they're collaborating on, what everyone's expectations are, and which particular elements of the meta-narrative aren't working.

Without those better ideas, you find people permanently damaging otherwise viable gaming groups.

The bottom line is that I think we could help people get past thinkng about this complicated art form in ways like "my DM is a dick."

The truth is, what your DM is trying to do is really, really hard. It sounds like he's probably messing up part of it, from your account.

But coming up with a character actually designed to make the situation even worse? That's not going to end well.

--Marsh

[Mikhail]

May I interest you with tale of Old Man Henderson? True, it's different system - Call of Cthulhu, but dickish GM are the same everywhere and character's concept is brilliant! ;]

[Rafim]

Stop playing with that DM
Respect other players..
or rest there and play a wizard.. play easy, and wait for high level spells then change the world and reshape the reality :)

p.s. : this is a game and you should have fun playing with. at the same time you should your friends have fun too ;) stay calm.. and play wizard :)

[MrSin]

silverkyo wrote:

but the fact that he had my character killed for something so entirely against his backstory without me being there to apparently be the only one to offer protest has frankly pissed me the f&$# off. I felt like he robbed me of my own character, like his will and what I do with him is no longer my choice.

I've been there! I've had 2 characters thrown under the bus while I wasn't at the session. I had no way to say so, they didn't tell me until I got to the next session, and I was obviously not okay with it. One of those games the next session suddenly moved to another DM for no real reason.

Here's the thing, is this guy your friend? If so, you should probably talk to him, or just walk away. Its not worth it. Its never really worth it to go out of your way, to be malevolent, and just burn bridges and make enemies with far reaching consequences. Talking to him maybe if you think it'll matter, but sometimes you really just have to take a deep breath, look at the situation, and walk away. Sometimes you don't get to talk about things, sometimes you don't get to do a thing. Its actually fine. It won't hurt you if you walk away and do your own thing, and completely ignore the fact this guy exist.

[Claxon]

Trying to get the best of the GM is like trying to get one over on God. You can try, but its his world and you're going to fail.

You: "I've built the most awesome overpowered broken thing I could think of to ruin your day and make your life miserable!"
GM: "Rocks fall, you die."

Be a man and hash this out. Yell it out if need be. Walk out and never come back if you can't find an amicable solution. But being a little baby back b!@#h about it isn't going to get you anywhere.

[hogarth]

My usual advice: If you're unhappy with the quality of someone else's GMing, volunteer to GM yourself. Then you'll either improve the overall quality of playing in your area, or you'll have a new appreciation for how hard it is to be a good GM!

[Relixander]

"The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury."
Marcus Aurelius

If you do not have fun in that group why are you playing in it? Find another group, start another group, play online, etc. Perpetuating the adversarial relationship in your group by playing against the GM instead of telling a story with him leads to no fun for anyone (including the other members of your group). The GM could very well be at fault, but that does not mean you have to be at fault as well, choose to have fun playing the game and a group that will foster that.

[Shalafi2412]

Sounds like the GM is a jerk but if this is something you know, why invest the time and energy in surrounding yourself with him and his shenagnigans? Who is the bigger jerk then?

[Lobolusk]

gunslinger or alchemist, that will tweak his nose hair all the touch AC hitting and killing.

[Shalafi2412]

I was playing my first play by post here on the boards. I was really excited to actually play one. The DM really was horrible. He didn't answer questions, ignored character backgrounds. Our first fight was against someone we could not even hurt and when we ran away we got to an outpost where we found everyone dead. As a good cleric, vested in the colors and symbol of my god, I prayed for the souls of the dead and entrusted them to the god, as I did this, the DM had some random person come in and start yelling saying that I had killed everyone. Really? In Dragonlance the color that a person wears is very telling and the medallion of faith is as well.

The only one who knew what was going on was the DM NPC that had originally been meant to be the DM's PC. Constant railroading. Constant we were his supporting cast.

My self and another player got tired of this and so we left the game. It turns out he had one of the bad guys catch the other player and it looks like this PC is being turned to evil. He had my character strip off his armor, jump off his horse, drop his equipment and run away. Really? When I asked that my character just disappear he more or less stated that he would be using him as he saw fit.

[Franko a]

To the OP.

Some of us have been in the same situation. But life is too short to try to get revenge for this stupid C**p.

Walk away, find another group, form your own group, and have awesome memmories as you live the rest of your life.

Dont give the ****** the satisfaction.

[Imbicatus]

Mikhail wrote:

May I interest you with tale of Old Man Henderson? True, it's different system - Call of Cthulhu, but dickish GM are the same everywhere and character's concept is brilliant! ;]

Thank you, that just made the last hour of my job much more fun.

[Kajehase]

Acolyte of Urizen wrote:

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

TOZ wrote:

This will only end in tears.

THE TOZ HEAP HAS SPOKEN!!!!

Hail Moander!

[Hordshyrd]

I'm going to agree that the best revenge is living well, and that it's probably not a good idea to alienate your gaming group.

That being said, if you really want to punish your gaming group, because as I can say from my own being dicks to eachother is the best part, then I have just 3 words for you.

Kitsune Trickster Rogue

Why you might ask? Well because a lv 7 character should have at least a +20 to diplomacy and bluff, you never actually have to tell anyone you're not an ordinary human and any time your GMthrows some big nasty group of critters at you you just talk them out of it, then convince them to burn down the nearest town, you know the one the GM had all those plans for.

[KainPen]

You said your a fan of game of thrones and you did not see this comming? Expecting a character to be not to be killed is strange. That what game of thrones is about innocent characters and good characters killed all the time weather it fits there nature or not. Game of Thones is about living in a world full of dicks who are out for themselves. Honestly I don't see your GM doing anything wrong he is getting board with his story it is option to end it so he does. You need take a step back and and relax it is just a game. Character die all the time and storyies end or become reborn. That what the game is all about. Are the other players in the group complaining? Maybe your the odd man out because you take it to seriously. It is not how the story end that is imporant. It's did you have fun reaching that ending that is imporant.

[bugleyman]

Yeah, um...good luck with that.

[Captain Marsh]

Just read the Old Man Henderson narrative - a bit of it anyway.

I know, I'm a humorless lump, but you know I REMEMBER players doing stuff like that.

And what's crazier, I remember letting players get away with doing stuff like that.

It sort of sounds funny and justified in hindsight.

But I remember the hours of pained, dead-ended gaming that we slogged through with a player who just didn't want to get into the actual story.

Sometimes it happened because of a personality feud with the DM.

Sometimes it happened because of a legitimate grievance that no one had the common sense to, you know, resolve.

Sometimes it was just a player who didn't have anyplace better to be but also had ZERO interest in the story or adventure.

And we all TOLERATED it, while our Saturday gaming session slowly bled out.

You want us to remember how clever you were with your
story bomb character?

I remember poor, frustrated DMs looking increasingly doomed as their hours of game prep time went up in flames around them.

I remember other players feeling the mood of the story drain away while the dude in the Hawaii t-shirt and Army boots kicks doors (and plotlines) down.

Ugh. No. Never again.

That said, if the campaign is MEANT to be funny and humorous and sort of Tunnels and Trollsy, then go for it.

I personally suck at that kind of thing (as you might imagine) and generally sit out the games that are meant to be sort of Monty Pythonesque.

But that stuff is an honorable part of the gaming tradition -- if that's what everyone has agreed to do.

Finally - blah, blah - I'll just ask point-blank: Why would ANYONE put up with a really crap DM for more than about two sessions?

This seems like one of the easier problems to solve. Either help your DM sort out the malfunction, or hand the DM screen to someone else.

Sabotaging the poor wretch? That seems like you're perpetuating your own misery...and likely torpedoing a friendship along the way.

--Marsh

[kputnam]

You have a few options:

1: Forget revenge, leave, and go on with your life. Find a different group to play with if you can.

2: Start your own game, and try and draw all the players away from this GM's game.

3: Vivesectionist alchemist with a few levels in Barbarian. Mutagen+Invisibility+Bull strength+Rage+sneak attack=dead enemies.

4: Undead Lord Cleric, or anyone else who makes a ton of undead. Have your minions swarm the enemy and tear him to shreds, while you and the rest of the party sit back and relax.

5: Two-handed-weapon fighter. Just kill everything in sight.

6: Elf wizard, max int and go. For flavor, you can specialize in cold spells. After all--revenge is a dish best served cold. Or just cast phantasmal killer.

7: Witch. Slumber hex everything and then coup de grace it all.

[I Hate Nickelback]

Whatever you make, make it have ludicrous single target damage. Then attack every NPC that you can. If its a monk, he'll be able to flee authority too with that awesome move speed.

[Azixirad]

Seriously man, just leave the game find a new group and have fun again.

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed a few posts and locking thread. These kinds of threads don't help foster a friendly community. Please revisit the messageboard rules.