Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Despite this, the Grand Lodge will not send a member on a mission if they suffer from any of the following conditions:
Suffering from an ongoing illness
An ability score drained to zero
An ongoing spell, spell-like, or supernatural effect that has a negative impact on the character (e.g. baleful polymorph.)
Curses
That probably needs rewording to something like "Curses obtained in play", or somebody will interpret it as saying Oracles are ineligible for PFS play.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I like it so far, lets keep the ideas coming.
Matthew, with what you wrote, bestow curse would be a condition that would get you marked as dead. Same with blindness/deafness.
Are these conditions you intended to be included?
Those are tricky cases. A bestow cursed character is going to be pretty impared (even if we just limit it to the curses in the CRB, 50% chance of doing nothing is pretty crippling) blindness/deafness is also a problem, even though we have blind/deaf oracles.
I'd like to say 'yes' since (in theory) a party of four should be able to pony up the gold to fix one or two PCs.
In an ideal world (which, this thread alone proves we don't exist in) the GM would have the call on these cases, and the player could get second chances as it were.
Table 1: Well bub, you ended the scenario with deafened and irritated all your buddies. So I'll mark 'deaf as a post' under conditions. He's still playable, but keep in mind, he might need it cleared at the beginning of the scenario.
Table 2 (a week later): Yes you can play your cranky deaf guy, but only if you get the condition cleared. See if your fellows will pony up GP.
Sure, reality won't allow it, but I can dream for co-operative tables. )(When I play Ksenia, she's a royal (literally) female-dog-in-heat, but I contribute to clearing conditions, for example)
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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That probably needs rewording to something like "Curses obtained in play", or somebody will interpret it as saying Oracles are ineligible for PFS play.Despite this, the Grand Lodge will not send a member on a mission if they suffer from any of the following conditions:
Suffering from an ongoing illness
An ability score drained to zero
An ongoing spell, spell-like, or supernatural effect that has a negative impact on the character (e.g. baleful polymorph.)
Curses
Also don't say "Grand Lodge", say "Pathfinder Society" instead or you will get "but my character is Chelaxian..." arguments.
But the Blind Oracles aren't actually Blind.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Attempting to re-write the affliction resolution rules, eh? Hmmm...
Alright, first, the goals:
• Diseases should need to be resolved, ending in either curing them or the PC "dying" (whether actually dying, or hitting enough ability damage to report them as dead).
• Similarly, anything that can continue to accrue effects over time (such as a curse that deals ability damage each week, or whatever) will necessarily need to be removed due to the undefined time length between scenarios (or let the PC die).
• Certain static penalties left over from trauma (surviving a fight with a stat-draining creature, or having negative levels from a raise dead) should be able to be carried into the next scenario, giving a PC "time" (more likely, gold) to recover.
• No baleful polymorph shenanigans, or similar.
Now, up through the first three goals, there's a line that could be drawn between conditions that are still "active" (things like diseases or curses with frequencies at which something happens) and things that are more like the leftover effects of something that's already been resolved (things like the negative levels left after a death was dealt with).
But then we've got the B.P. issue, not to mention the possibility of static curses that don't quite fit those two categories. So we need to hit that stuff too.
Here's what I propose, to cover all of it as cleanly as possible:
"All diseases and curses must be resolved during the session. The condition can be removed by any standard means (such as saving throws or magic). If instead the affected PC receives ability damage equal to or greater than the affected ability score, or enough drain to reduce an ability score to zero, the PC is reported as dead and can no longer be played. Similarly, if a curse is unable to be removed, the PC is retired from the campaign.
Other conditions, such as negative levels or ability drain (provided these are not covered under the disease and curse rules, above) carry over from scenario to scenario and continue to affect the PC until the effect is removed.
Exceptions to either of these rules may occasionally appear in scenarios or chronicle sheets, and will detail their own rules."
There.
Now as long as we're clear that, as per the list Andy cited from the CRB much earlier in the thread, baleful polymorph counts as a curse; I think we're covered.
Got a disease? Roll it out, cure it, or die.
Got a curse (including B.P.)? Remove it or remove your PC.
Got a leftover negative level from a raise and can't quite afford the restoration yet? Fight through it in your next scenario.
Got a bit drained, but still working on getting better? You can still get there!
Got something weird or special on a chronicle? Use its own rules.
Did I miss anything? Does this need revising?
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The Guide already does a pretty good job of covering these types of situations. I do not see the need to be overly harsh in the clearing of conditions. Nothing in the current guide as is suggests anything close to what Mike has recently ruled. Impaired conditions were always intended to be carried over.
What was not intended was someone trying to loophole the rules. I think that falls squarely under “Don’t Be a Jerk”.
The three relevant sections of the Guide are:
Conditions, Death, and Expendables
When playing your own character, all conditions (including death) not resolved within the scenario or module carry beyond the end of the adventure. Likewise, any wealth spent or resources expended during the course of the adventure are tracked and must be recorded on the Chronicle sheet.
All diseases must be resolved at the table. The character will either be cured or dead. Diseases which result in a character’s ability score (aside from Constitution) being reduced to 0 must be cured or the character will become unplayable. An unplayable character should be marked as dead when reporting the session. See additional rules under Dealing with Afflictions in Chapter 7 of this document.
Death is a part of any roleplaying game, and unfortunately it can happen in Pathfinder Society Organized Play just like in a regular Pathfinder RPG game session. The basic rule for Pathfinder Society is that if a PC dies during the course of a scenario, he can be raised by a PC of appropriate class and level seated at his table (paying all expected costs), he can be raised by an NPC in an appropriately sized settlement (see “Purchasing Spellcasting Services”), or he can be raised by his faction if he has sufficient Prestige Points.
If a PC cannot be raised from the dead during or immediately after the scenario in which he died, that PC is dead and removed from play. In this instance, the GM reports that the character in question died during the course of play on the tracking sheet provided with the scenario and on the character’s Chronicle for that scenario, and the player will need to make a new 1st-level character to continue play in Pathfinder Society. Please note that players can (and are encouraged to) share or pool their resources in order to bring a dead party member back to life. They may not, however, pool Prestige Points to do so, even if they’re from the same faction. PCs can also sell off gear, including the dead character’s gear, at 50% of its listed value to raise money to purchase a spell that will return their slain ally from the dead, though they can only do so in a settlement and they cannot sell off any items found during the current scenario that they haven’t purchased. PCs who die during a scenario and are raised receive full XP for that scenario, so long as they completed at least three encounters.
PCs who do not return to the realm of the living receive no XP, 0 Prestige Points, 0 gp, and no boons for the scenario in which they died.
Spells
The following spells found in the Core Rulebook are not legal for play and may never be used, found, purchased, or learned in any form by PCs playing Pathfinder Society Scenarios: awaken, permanency, and reincarnate.
All spells and effects end at the end of a scenario with the following exceptions:
• Spells and effects with permanent or instantaneous duration that heal damage or remove harmful conditions remain in effect at the end of the scenario.
• Afflictions and harmful conditions obtained during a scenario remain until healed and carry over from scenario to scenario.
• A character may have one each of the following spells that carries overs from scenario to scenario: continual flame, masterwork transformation, secret chest, and secret page.
Dealing with Afflictions
At the end of a scenario, a PC may have been afflicted with any number of possible conditions, such as blindness, curses, deafness, diseases, and poison. Verify that the player recorded any conditions in the Items Sold/Conditions Gained box on his Chronicle sheet and initial next to what he wrote (see below). It’s specifically important that conditions be written legibly so the player and subsequent GMs can understand them. If the PC purchased the casting of a spell to clear the condition, you need to make sure the player recorded that information in the Items Bought/Conditions Cleared box at the bottom of the Chronicle sheet. If another PC cleared the condition by casting a spell, this information should be listed in the Items Bought/Conditions Cleared box, but with a 0 gp value and the casting character’s full Pathfinder Society Number (XXXX-XX) written in next to the spell’s name. If a character resolved a condition gained during a previous scenario during this one, check that the condition is listed as cleared under Items Bought/Conditions Cleared on the Chronicle sheet for this scenario, and verify that the cost for resolving it or the PC who cleared it has been recorded.
Note: Any diseases or afflictions a PC has obtained must be resolved at the table once the game ends as explained in Chapter 5 of this document.
I only see the need for a few clarifications.
Ability score damage, ability score drain and energy drain and negative levels are not specifically called out in the guide. Ability score damage will heal over time and should be treated like hit point damage. It does not carry over from scenario to scenario. Ability score drain should carry over if not resolved at the end of the scenario. Energy drain and negative levels are also conditions. They should also be allowed to carry over from scenario to scenario. Maybe the guide could benefit from specifically mentioning these cases.
I suggest changing the second bullet point under the Spells section to read as something like:
“Permanent afflictions and harmful conditions caused by spells obtained during a scenario remain until healed, dispelled, removed or reversed as appropriate and carry over from scenario to scenario. If an affliction or harmful condition makes the PC unplayable, such as baleful polymorph or flesh to stone, the PC should be marked as dead when reporting the session. An animal companion or familiar in a similar condition should be considered dead.”
Afflictions are specifically called out in the CRB and are made up of curses, diseases and poisons. Baleful Polymorph is listed under the curses sub-section on p. 556 as “Baleful Polymorph Spell”. The dispel magic spell would not work to cure the affliction as it is permanent effect and is not an ongoing spell. Once it is cast and the initial save is passed or failed, the spell is over. A remove curse of break enchantment spell would be required to remove instead.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The dispel magic spell would not work to cure [baleful polymorph] as it is permanent effect and is not an ongoing spell. Once it is cast and the initial save is passed or failed, the spell is over.
You're confusing permanent duration with instantaneous durations that have lasting consequences.
Stone shape has a duration of instantaneous; it fits your description of once it's cast, the spell is over, so there's nothing to dispel.
Permanent-duration spells (like B.P.) are the opposite: the spell is ongoing. This means it is subject to dispel magic and also would end if brought inside an antimagic field.
This is the same reason that healing spells have durations of instantaneous rather than permanent.
EDIT: Catching up with my due diligence here:
Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.
Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.
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whoa, you guys have been busy!
I think the guide is perfectly fine as written, there shouldn't be a need to perform a complete overhaul.
I hope this isn't the general reaction for when all questions or varying perspectives are brought up, as the reworking would never end.
Anywho, thanks for the clarifications, ill keep looking on other ways to increase he effectiveness of my familiar.
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The dispel magic spell would not work to cure [baleful polymorph] as it is permanent effect and is not an ongoing spell. Once it is cast and the initial save is passed or failed, the spell is over.You're confusing permanent duration with instantaneous durations that have lasting consequences.
Stone shape has a duration of instantaneous; it fits your description of once it's cast, the spell is over, so there's nothing to dispel.
Permanent-duration spells (like B.P.) are the opposite: the spell is ongoing. This means it is subject to dispel magic and also would end if brought inside an antimagic field.
This is the same reason that healing spells have durations of instantaneous rather than permanent.
EDIT: Catching up with my due diligence here:
Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.
Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.
Interestingly enough…
Remove curse requires a caster level check vs. the save DC of the spell. Verse a minimum level (9th) to cast this, the minimum DC would be 17 (5th level spell + minimum 15 casting stat.) It is more likely that the DC would be in the low 20’s which you’d be rolling a die 20 +5 to beat. Even at the minimum of 17, that’s only a 40% chance of success. But in the low 20’s you have less than a 15% chance to succeed.
With dispel magic it is a caster level check vs. the enemy’s caster level +11. At minimums that’s a die 20 +5 to beat DC 20 (caster level 9 + 11) you need a 15 or only a 30% chance of success.
The higher level you get, the better chance of success for both spells. The major difference is that dispel magic is on more spell lists than remove curse. Additionally, unless the enemy's caster level is higher, the DC for dispel magic remains static and gets easier and easier the higher level you get. Conversely, the DC at minimums for bestow curse are easier, but the higher level and the better the casting stat of the bad guy, the harder it gets and does not remain static. So it is highly likely that the higher level you get, the tougher the caster level gets, rather than easier.
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But the Blind Oracles aren't actually Blind.Irrelevant. The important fact is that they are under a curse.
Ok, I have two thoughts about this:
I know this was brought up to make sure the new text was absolutely clear, and I thank you for participating, but:
1) As long as the guide discussions curses as afflictions, then the Oracle curse, a class feature, cannot be considered affected, because it is not an affliction.
2) Even suggesting this could be interpreted to write out an entire class from the campaign lacks common sense, and is why the original severe ruling in the first place.
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But the Blind Oracles aren't actually Blind.Irrelevant. The important fact is that they are under a curse.
Let's hope that folks can figure out that a campaign-legal character option does not result in an instant perma-ban the moment you sit down at your first session just because you're a member of a certain class. If someone can't grasp that without help, then they probably shouldn't be involved in organized gaming at all.
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The reason for this new vein in this thread is not to obviate the need for common sense, but to make sure its clear what conditions carry over and what ones do not.
At some point, we have to allow for the fact that GMs are not idiots and players are not idiots, and they know how to read for comprehension at a certain level.
If we had to spell out everything obviating all instances of the need for common sense, then the guide would be 1000 pages long and nobody would read it, thus making the problem worse.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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You would think that an organization (in-universe) as big as the Pathfinder Society would have an anti-magic circle somewhere in the lodge that they could just walk the agents through when they get back from the adventure. A dispel magic should cost nothing.
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You would think that an organization (in-universe) as big as the Pathfinder Society would have an anti-magic circle somewhere in the lodge that they could just walk the agents through when they get back from the adventure. A dispel magic should cost nothing.
Nah, the Decemvirate has more important things to worry about than the welfare of their expendable agents.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Nobody's claiming players are idiots, Andrew. The claim is that they're weasels.
Look, there are corner cases in the Pathfinder rules system that allow for broken characters. David is fond of citing his deeper darkness casting tiefling rogues. There are those tetori monks with super grapple/pin/bind-in-a-pretty-ribbon abilities, followd by coup-de-grace.
There are summoners with eidolons who either break rules that nobody can check in realtime, or skirt rules, but who nonetheless dominate combat. There are the enchanters with dominate you and sky-high DCs.
And it seems there's some weird corner case involving people voluntarily subjecting themselves to baleful polymorph spells.
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All right, enough. Please. An organized play campaign can NOT keep up with every innovative character design that breaks the game. Mark and John cannot develop scenarios that provide a threat to you, while still proving a fun atmosphere for the rest of the playerbase. GMs cannot modify the scenarios to provide you a challenge.
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In the old Champions game, there was an essay about how you could use the rules in ridiculous ways: you could buy enough minions to include the entire population of the Earth, and then make them all fanatically loyal to you. You could buy a base the size of the Earth. You could shrink objects the size of asteroids and turn off that shrinking as you threw them at bad guys. All that's entrtaining, as thought-experiments. So is Pun-Pun, that old D&D 35 joke about a kobold with some very specific class levels that let him attain infinite powers. If the game system is sufficiently complicated, you can find parts that can be abused, or combinations that are much more powerful than any component.
But you don't play the guy who throws planets in Champions. You don't play Pun-Pun. And we need to stop trying to play the deeper darkness tiefling rogues. And the squirrels.
A healthy organized play environment doesn't try to write rules prohibiting this and that weird OP thing. It congratulates the player on finding a weird rules loophole, and then everybody goes off to play fun characters calibrated to the difficulty of the campaign encounters.
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But the Blind Oracles aren't actually Blind.
But Deaf Oracles are actually deaf.
Right now, if I understand the rule Mike instituted, an Oracle with the Deaf curse is still legal to play, but a PC who has had Deafness cast on them, and failed the save, is out of play unless they get the Deafness removed?
Deafened: A deafened character cannot hear. He takes a –4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Perception checks based on sound, takes a –4 penalty on opposed Perception checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components. Characters who remain deafened for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Chris, I think you see the same problem that Andrew (and I) do, but expressed it differently.
The problem isn't the guy who took the point of Con drain, any more than it's the problem of the (good) player who actually could handle a squirrled wizard for a scenario or two while he saves up enough gold/nuts to have a break enchantment cast.*
The problem is the guy who wants to use the Alchemist Elixer trick on the Emerald Spire boon, the guy who looks at Permasquirrel as a way to make his druid a non-combatant while still throwing those high level spells, and wildshaping as needed.
And yes, the sir-grabs-a-lot monks that trivialize encounters.
"Corner cases make bad law." Because we have the corner caes disrupting the game, we have bad law.
*
But the Blind Oracles aren't actually Blind.But Deaf Oracles are actually deaf.
Ding ding! Get this man a cupie doll.
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Ding ding! Get this man a cupie doll.But the Blind Oracles aren't actually Blind.But Deaf Oracles are actually deaf.
A Deaf Oracle is someone who has apparently been dealing with the loss of their hearign for awhile, most likely to the point that they have either learned (Linguistics) to Read Lips or use Sign Language, and can therefore likely function on par with everyone else in the party.
A person who fails a save vs being deafened has had no such time to acclimate themselves to the situation, and therefore would need to be benched, lest they be a detriment to their party.
But seriously, are either of you actually complaining about the fact that you would need to pay to get the condition removed, cause you want to play your deafened character anyway? Or are you just pointing out a possible double standard for characters?
Also, I would just like to point out that I have never seen a GM use the Deafness option on that spell, nor have I used it. I would bet many others will have had similar experiences.
But seriously, are either of you actually complaining about the fact that you would need to pay to get the condition removed, cause you want to play your deafened character anyway? Or are you just pointing out a possible double standard for characters?
More so I think people are pointing out that the character is still playable and not dead, similarly with drain. A catch all would keep these characters from playing another session to get their problems removed. Of course, at higher levels, usually you can afford to fix most problems(short of death), but at lower levels its far more painful and likely to just end that characters adventuring career. If that makes sense.
I don't think anyone is volunteering to play a deaf character... except maybe the oracle.
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I agree they are still playable as far as the game is concerned, but I also agree that the PFS wouldnt want to send disabled agents into the field.
Actually Ksenia was deafened at Origins. (She got better).
As to 'disabled' They're sending int 7 fighters, cha 5 dwarves and tieflings, and str 5 small sorcerers into the field, so really does a deaf character make that much of a difference? ;-)
Yes, I know there's a mechanical difference (condition gained vs being built that way) but to the Society there isn't.
"Sorry Bob, your judgement is pretty dodgy after that Alip hit you once."
*Bob looks over at Mary, who keeps touching the hot stove* "I'm not as touched as she is."
"Rules are rules. Mary! We need you to go with this group to explore an ancient tomb. We're guessing insight and perception are a plus for this mission."
"Sure thing Venture Captain! Ow!"
Again, I understand the ruling that puts characters with one point of Wis drain up there with characters that are dead, petrified or squirrels running in a wheel. I'm saying there must be a better option.
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Again, I understand the ruling that puts characters with one point of Wis drain up there with characters that are dead, petrified or squirrels running in a wheel. I'm saying there must be a better option.
Such as making a long list of every instance in which a character would or would not need to have a condition or effect taken care of, taking into account that every time a new way of inflicting a condition is created, it will need to be added to the list?
A list of which would need to be put into the guide, which again is long enough as is, and we shouldnt try to put every corner case into it.
I get what you mean with your example (which is why I dont normally build characters with 7s and never with 5s), but that doesnt mean that the character is completely useless.
Bad Example: Rainman. The character probably had a 5 or 6 Charisma, but well above a average Intelligence. Still pretty useful, despite being awkward in social situations.
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And yes, I understand that one condition on a character also doesnt make them completely useless, most of the time anyway, so the same should apply.
I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but unless you can come up with a really dang good reason for why it should be changed AND a new way of ruling on it, I wouldnt expect anything to come of this.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Could someone walk me through an example of a situation in which a characterhas taken some permanent debuff where you think the should be written out of the campaign, despite the wishes of the player?
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Suggestion: if a PC is debilitated at the end of, let's say, Chronicle #9, but is GMing "Veteran's Vault" for the first time during the next session, is it reasonable to allow the guy to apply that GM Chronicle to that character in an effort to afford any restoration or dispel requirements.
This would have the effect of changing "must fix things by the end of the session or be reported dead" to "must fix things before the character is played again."
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A Fighter could lose the ability to use:
Combat Expertise
Whirlwind Attack
Deadly Aim
Dodge
Deflect Arrows
Stunning Fist
Nimble Moves
Shot on the Run
Power Attack
Disrupting Shot
Eagle Eyes
Elemental Fist
Childlike
Fast Healer
Fight On
Focus Shot
Following Step
Furious Focus
Gnome Trickster
Go Unnoticed
Groundling
Improved Stonecunning
Ironguts
Ironhide
Keen Scent
Low Profile
Missile Shield
perfect Strike
Punishing Kick
Rending Claws
Shared Insight
Shield of Swings
Sidestep
Sociable
Taunt
Tripping Staff
Tripping Twirl
Richochet Splash Weapon
Deathless Initiate
Defensive Weapon Training
Distance Thrower
Final Embrace
Impact Critical Shot
Pinning Knockout
Rhetorical Flourish
...as well as many more feats, Im sure, and anything that might have the above-listed feats as prerequisits. :P
They would also die 1pt of damage sooner.
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Suggestion: if a PC is debilitated at the end of, let's say, Chronicle #9, but is GMing "Veteran's Vault" for the first time during the next session, is it reasonable to allow the guy to apply that GM Chronicle to that character in an effort to afford any restoration or dispel requirements.
This would have the effect of changing "must fix things by the end of the session or be reported dead" to "must fix things before the character is played again."
I'd +1 that.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Chris, that's a method I firmly agree with, (it also encourages GMing :-))
PErmanent debuffs? squirellification, death, feebleminded stat drained to zero. Yes, a player might be able to play a scenario with a feral fighter, or a squirrel wizard, but they are the exception, not the rule. Again "Corner cases make bad law"
In a way, taking a GM sheet to 'fix' a 'dead' character would be akin to having the party post scenario pool their gold. Think of it as an anonomous donation.
It should also be rare enough that a GM can just e-mail their VO "I want to apply my GM credit for "Buggering Bugbears of Brevoy" to the petrified character that Ksenia shipped to Irrisen last week, can you flip the 'dead' switch on him?"
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My preferred method is like Chris stated but with the caveat that you can have your conditioned resolved at the beginning of the next table you play at with the aid of the players at such table. This allows you to maybe get back to playing condition without spending resources.
This could be trouble at cons though. You might wind up with: "Hi everyone. I'm the last player to get your Season 4 table up to 6, and I'm in a bit of a bind. You see, the last GM hit me with five curses last game, two of which I couldn't remove. So you can help me get rid of these last two curses, or you can play the six-player version this slot with only five players, since this in my only in-tier character and if I play without recovering, I lose the character permanently. I'm sure I'll find another table that will help me."
Chris's addition makes it easier to recover without having this potential concern.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I feel like folks are bringing up issues that my earlier post would handle just fine. Is there something I missed?
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I feel like folks are bringing up issues that my earlier post would handle just fine. Is there something I missed?
Yes, we all love the sound of our own voices.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I agree they are still playable as far as the game is concerned, but I also agree that the PFS wouldnt want to send disabled agents into the field.
Why not? They'll send just about anything else on any mission.
If PFS cared about sending a qualified and competent team into the field, their party selection procedure would consist of something other than taking the first bunch of adventurers the VC spots on walking into the lodge (or the tavern, or ...)
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Why not? They'll send just about anything else on any mission.
If PFS cared about sending a qualified and competent team into the field, their party selection procedure would consist of something other than taking the first bunch of adventurers the VC spots on walking into the lodge (or the tavern, or ...)
I agree that they let in a large number of characters that wouldnt actually be allowed, should the organization be real, but doing that in game would require limitations on what a character is and is not capable of, or qualifications and restrictions on character builds (must not have a negative to any stat modifier), which would just cause even more complaints from players about being stifled in their builds.
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My preferred method is like Chris stated but with the caveat that you can have your conditioned resolved at the beginning of the next table you play at with the aid of the players at such table. This allows you to maybe get back to playing condition without spending resources.This could be trouble at cons though. You might wind up with: "Hi everyone. I'm the last player to get your Season 4 table up to 6, and I'm in a bit of a bind. You see, the last GM hit me with five curses last game, two of which I couldn't remove. So you can help me get rid of these last two curses, or you can play the six-player version this slot with only five players, since this in my only in-tier character and if I play without recovering, I lose the character permanently. I'm sure I'll find another table that will help me."
Chris's addition makes it easier to recover without having this potential concern.
That is a pretty narrow concern. At a con there is likely to be someone else to step in. And if the table says no, the character is dead and couldn't play anyway. If the sample character died in the am session, the pm session would be in the same boat without any options.
As far as tracking the GM of the session 1 would have to mark the condition gained box. GM of the session 2 would have to mark the condition removed box. Which is no change in how it works now.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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(must not have a negative to any stat modifier)
Nitpick: That would remove the entire NPC population, since both common and heroic NPC stat arrays in Pathfinder include an 8 (the common also includes a 9) before you even get into racial mods.
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I suspect the problem is two fold. The relatively narrow window of opportunity to remove the condition in question, combined with the lumping of what are relatively minor consitions. I.E. Fighter with a 1 point of charisma drain, with practically fatal ones.... a 6th level character with 5 negative levels on them.Brock's ruling treats them all the same. If a character for some reason doesn't or can't fix either of them, both are treated as terminal cases.
Perhaps this is the part we should be focusing on. Jiggy & Mike's suggestions do address it. Can it be addressed/defined better?
temporary annoyances can conceivably be removed by the character within 3 chronicles, no worse condition than a legal build.
fatalitiesoutside of the parameters for a legal build; result in death with an indeterminate amount of time.
I am sure more experienced folks can do better than me. :)
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(must not have a negative to any stat modifier)Nitpick: That would remove the entire NPC population, since both common and heroic NPC stat arrays in Pathfinder include an 8 (the common also includes a 9) before you even get into racial mods.
I understand that, but:
1) It was an example, and not to be taken seriously
2) This would just be a requirement for PCs, not NPCs, since PCs dont use the generic build, or arent forced to, anyway.
3) I dont see a problem with that.
:P
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Hoping for a field promotion to the Decemvirate? ;)That would remove the entire NPC population3) I dont see a problem with that.
I'd be intrigued to see the tests new applicants would have to take in order to show they had a 10+ in each stat...
'Alright, applicant! First, lift that weight with no more than average effort! Next, throw these 20 darts at that (AC 10) target, and hit with at least 11 of them! Next, hold your breath for at least 1 minute!'
'Now, recognise each of these holy symbols of major gods with not more than an average effort of memory! Then, find the cup hidden in this room on a quick search! Finally, you can't be ugly!'
'Congratulations, Joe Average! You're in the Pathfinders now!'