How many archetypes at level one?

[Phantom Mouse]

As the title says, how many archetypes can a character take at creation? I'm working on a bard, and want to combine the daredevil and sound blade archetypes.

Can I take both at creation or do I need to level before adding on the second archetype?

[Lord Foul II]

You have to take both at creation,

[Tempestorm]

As long as they don't overlap in what abilities they replace.

[Majuba]

Accurate advice above.

You can add an archetype at level 1. You must add an archetype prior to the point where it first makes a change to the base class.

You can combine any number of archetypes that do not make any change/modification/replacement of the same class feature. Realistically, I haven't seen a combination that allows three archetypes. And often people don't realize that just two conflict.

[David knott 242]

The only time you can defer choosing an archetype is if it does not change or replace any ability that you have at first level. In that case, you can select the archetype at any point up until you advance to the level where the archetype makes a difference. Ultimate Campaign makes this rule explicit.

As for taking more than one archetype, the rule is that you can take as many as you like as long as they do not modify or replace the same class feature.

Assuming that you meant Sound Striker when you said Sound Blade archetype, you could select that archetype at any point up until you reach 3rd level, as that is the earliest level where that archetype actually makes a difference. The Daredevil archetype must be taken at 1st level since it modifies some 1st level abilities. If you wait too long to take either archetype, your only recourse is the retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign.

[Lakesidefantasy]

What is the most archetypes possible?

[Nimrodii]

this shows all archetypes and what they can combine with.

[Kazaan]

I'm pretty sure the absolute maximum by standard means is 4:

There are a few Monk that mesh up to 3 and then you can add Qinggong on to any of them. For example, Qinggong Drunken Master of Many Styles of the Lotus Monk. Or the Spell-Bladebound Staff Hexcrafter Magus. But these mixes are few and far between. You also tend to give up so many "core" aspects of the class that you have nothing but peripheral benefits and nothing to anchor them to. So most people will stick to 1-2 archetypes as a rule of thumb.

[Haladir]

My houserule is you can have a maximum of one archetype, and only at character creation. (And subject to GM approval.) It's been my experience that stacking archetypes can get messy and often leads to weird corner-cases and the resulting unpleasant conversations/arguments.

[Izar Talon]

Haladir wrote:

My houserule is you can have a maximum of one archetype, and only at character creation. (And subject to GM approval.) It's been my experience that stacking archetypes can get messy and often leads to weird corner-cases and the resulting unpleasant conversations/arguments.

All Archetypes have to be taken at first level, and everything should always be subject to GM approval, but, that being said, limiting characters to just one Archetype is really just limiting your players and cutting off some very very interesting character possibilities.

I don't mean to sound snarky, but my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. In fact, some Archetypes were practically designed to go together. As an example, I am like 99% certain that the Magus Kensai Archetype was designed with an eye toward keeping it open to mesh with the Bladebound Archetype, because they just blend so well, both conceptually and mechanically. And as was said earlier, there are several rad combined Archetype Monk possibilities as well. Putting arbitrary limits in place just because of limited anecdotal evidence usually isn't a very good idea, and just ends up cutting you off from interesting possibilities.

Combining 4 Archetypes? Probably going to end up a mess, but MAYBE not, and I've always strongly subscribed to the idea that a good GM should allow players to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't break the rules or ruin immersion in the setting. Combining 2 Archetypes? That can create some of the most interesting characters possible in the game, such as one of the characters in the game I am currently running.

If my players want to try something impossible, I say sure, go ahead, and then describe why it failed. I would never say "no, you can't do that", I let them discover that it doesn't work.

[Lincoln Hills]

I don't bother restricting maximum number of archetypes (there's a practical limit soon enough), but I do generally advise against taking more than one unless the player is using some kind of electronic PC sheet that has the full text of every replacement ability handy. This isn't out of concern over rules balance - just a desire to minimize the amount of time spent shuffling through 3-4 rulebooks trying to figure out what, exactly, his or her character is capable of doing while the rest of the group loses focus and starts to talk about something non-game-related.

[Lord Foul II]

Izar Talon wrote:

Haladir wrote:

My houserule is you can have a maximum of one archetype, and only at character creation. (And subject to GM approval.) It's been my experience that stacking archetypes can get messy and often leads to weird corner-cases and the resulting unpleasant conversations/arguments.

All Archetypes have to be taken at first level, and everything should always be subject to GM approval, but, that being said, limiting characters to just one Archetype is really just limiting your players and cutting off some very very interesting character possibilities.

I don't mean to sound snarky, but my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. In fact, some Archetypes were practically designed to go together. As an example, I am like 99% certain that the Magus Kensai Archetype was designed with an eye toward keeping it open to mesh with the Bladebound Archetype, because they just blend so well, both conceptually and mechanically. And as was said earlier, there are several rad combined Archetype Monk possibilities as well. Putting arbitrary limits in place just because of limited anecdotal evidence usually isn't a very good idea, and just ends up cutting you off from interesting possibilities.

Combining 4 Archetypes? Probably going to end up a mess, but MAYBE not, and I've always strongly subscribed to the idea that a good GM should allow players to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't break the rules or ruin immersion in the setting. Combining 2 Archetypes? That can create some of the most interesting characters possible in the game, such as one of the characters in the game I am currently running.

if my players want to try something impossible, I say sure, go ahead, and then describe why it failed. I would never say "no, you can't do that", I let them discover that it doesn't work.

this soo soo much this

[Renegadeshepherd]

I think the most u can have is 4 for a single class (monk). But as long As the abilities replaced don't overlap u can take as many as u want.

[Izar Talon]

Renegadeshepherd wrote:

I think the most u can have is 4 for a single class (monk). But as long As the abilities replaced don't overlap u can take as many as u want.

4 Archetypes probably is just about the practical limit to how many ArCs one could apply to a character; after that and there probably couldn't be anymore you could add without starting to overlap.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Usually only 2 will work, ranger has some options for 3, and monk (with the most replaceable abilities I can see at 22) pretty much hard caps at 4, although it really caps at 3 +Quingong, altho most of the things quingong will sub for are already replaced, so you don't really have a ton of options.