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I'm investigating if there is any possibilities to pull off 6 ranged or melee attacks with only a standard action, without using the move action.
I'm planning on using the move action for stealth and each individual attack roll is for sneak attack.
I think it might be possible with Crafted magical items, Firearms or perhaps any other ideas?
Firearms:
Ive looked into Firearms and found the Shotgun! It fires scatter shots! So if you're facing 3 close-by enemies, then you can hit all 3. Since its a double barreled gun, u can hit them each twice, 3 x 2 = 6. Which means that you can pull of 6 attacks if u position yourself right.
Then i found that u need to reload the gun which takes a move action and with rapid reload do I only seem to reload 1 barrel for 1 free action/round, limiting it to fire only 3 shots / round as a standard action.
Crafted magical items?
Other ideas?
From Ultimate Combat:
Scatter Weapon Quality: A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. Cannons with the scatter weapon quality only fire grapeshot, unless their descriptions state otherwise. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls made misfire. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.
So it would appear there is no sneak attack damage with a shotgun, which makes sense. Shotgun blasts are not what one would typically call precise as such.
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1) multiple barrels do not work that way, 2) scatter shot can't do precision damage (shocking, I know!).
A custom magic item allowing 6 attacks as a standard action would be priced somewhere around, back-of-the-envelope guesstimating here, multiplying by caster level, carry the one...somewhere around "LOL no!".
Well, you could have pulled off 6 attacks as a standard, but no not under the conditions you want. A greater beast totem barbarian that is limited to a standard action only (say a surprise round) can charge (regular movement only not double) as a standard and with pounce make his full attack at the end of charge.
However, as a rogue, and wanting to make a move action and be able to stealth afterwards...my suggestion to you is be a Ninja with Invisible Blade. You can use invisible blade to be greater invisible allow you to be stealthed the entire time and get sneak attack on all your attacks. You will of course have to still walk up to them, take only 1 attack with your standard, and then on the next round use a full attack action on them assuming they don't move away.
Otherwise no, there isn't really a way to do this that I can think of.
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Actually i calculated what a magic item like that would cost, it was cheaper than a shotgun (if u make the right modifications).
Spell: Ray of Frost (0,5)
Caster Level: (1)
Type of crafted object: Command Word (1800g)/use activated (2000g)?
Charged (50 charges) (0,5)
Cost formula:
0,5 x 1 x 2000 x 0,5 = 500gp
This would only be 1 frost attack.
But I'm making a glove, which would allow me to make 1 ranged touch attack/finger.
Cost:
0,5 x 1 x 2000 x 0,5 x 1 = 500
0,5 x 1 x 2000 x 0,5 x 4 x 0,75 = 1500
The first finger costs and is first built separately into the glove (thumb), then the four other fingers.
The 0,75 comes from the craft magic creation rules about adding similar abilities (might be wrong about this).
Tot: 500 + 1500 = 2000g (without charges/infinitive = 4000g)
I'm a little confused about if that would be the crafting cost or the market price.
You'd still need to activate every finger individually, requiring a handful of Standard Actions.
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Im considering the item as the helm of brilliance, 1 standard action activates quite a lot.
Or I could make the glove be a special glove, combined with a talisman around ones neck would allow the glove to fire independent rays from each finger. These rays are cast as u twist your finger and willingly (as a free action since its a use activated item) beam out rays immediately after one and other, just like Scorching Ray (in upgraded form).
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k, would have been interesting to see how it would have worked out with shatter defenses + performance "dirge of doom" from Bard lvl 8.
Only sad u cant continue on the Bard's spell list as rogue, but the front face remains with since both bard and rogue have many class skills. Max cha and dex..
Oh well, should get back on the subject.
Isn't there any item which would enable one to make 6 attacks with only a standard action?
You'd still need to activate every finger individually, requiring a handful of Standard Actions.
I see what you did there. finger...hand... I get it.
But seriously, wand of greater invisibility. Why make stealth check when you can just be invisible?
EDIT: Or, be a ninja.
Three is relatively doable if you can trip and have Combat Reflexes feat (multiple AOOs required). Four is the maximum I've ever found without pounce and requires a bit of luck - 9th level two weapon fighter and proc a Tripping Strike -> Greater Trip -> Vicious Stomp. The slightly more reliable 2H weapon method is Felling Smash -> Greater Trip (AOO) -> Vicious Stomp (AOO).
There is also the Improved Cleaving Finish feat. If you are knee deep in mooks that can be killed in one hit you can theoretically more than six attacks.
The problem with the above methods is they require so many feats that it almost requires a fighter to do them. High level rogues or ninja's could probably pull it off too if you really wanted though.
But you really really want 6 attacks? Get pounce. Level 1 as a quadruped synth summoner - pounce, claws, limbs (arms). Human with the feats two weapon fighting and extra evolution. This is 5 attacks easy. Further optimization and how to add sneak attacks I'll leave as an exercise for other people.
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Well I started with a different idea of having the barbarian in our team pulling trip each round with a reach weapon, as greater trip would add more AoO for me, id reach 6 attacks by level 6 if it all goes smoothly. this wouldn't even require me to use my action since I got 20 dex and would only need combat reflexes...
However this would require greater invisibility and I just find that spell too epic to even consider. On top of that I know my GM would make every spider have flour or glitter dust around to spot me, since he really isn't a lover of passive domination, even if he refuses to admit it :)
However I'm always returning to magic items... I know they got potential and if I can find a way to deal 6 touch attacks / round with as little as 1d3 / hit+sneak attack, id be thrilled!
Well I started with a different idea of having the barbarian in our team pulling trip each round with a reach weapon, as greater trip would add more AoO for me, id reach 6 attacks by level 6 if it all goes smoothly. this wouldn't even require me to use my action since I got 20 dex and would only need combat reflexes...
However this would require greater invisibility and I just find that spell too epic to even consider. On top of that I know my GM would make every spider have flour or glitter dust around to spot me, since he really isn't a lover of passive domination, even if he refuses to admit it :)However I'm always returning to magic items... I know they got potential and if I can find a way to deal 6 touch attacks / round with as little as 1d3 / hit+sneak attack, id be thrilled!
You do realize that you don't threaten with ranged attacks, right? That's the Snap Shot line of feats.
If your DM is likely to pull "spiders with Glitterdust" on you for Greater Invisibility, what makes you think that he'll let you have an item like that? I think you and your DM may have a difference in playstyle that requires more discussion than just custom magic item rules. You may want to look into finding a group that's more agreeable to your style of play.
So greater invisability is to epic but you want to pull off 6 attacks without even bothering to full attack? A level 20 mobile fighter with TWF and imp TWF could do it...
Well I started with a different idea of having the barbarian in our team pulling trip each round with a reach weapon, as greater trip would add more AoO for me, id reach 6 attacks by level 6 if it all goes smoothly. this wouldn't even require me to use my action since I got 20 dex and would only need combat reflexes...
However this would require greater invisibility and I just find that spell too epic to even consider. On top of that I know my GM would make every spider have flour or glitter dust around to spot me, since he really isn't a lover of passive domination, even if he refuses to admit it :)However I'm always returning to magic items... I know they got potential and if I can find a way to deal 6 touch attacks / round with as little as 1d3 / hit+sneak attack, id be thrilled!
There is Arcane Trickster if you wanted to go that route. You'll get Scorching Ray for 2nd level spells and later you'll get Contagious Flame for 6th level spells. At high level multiple successive castings of Contagious Flame would grant you up to 20 touch attacks a round if you had at least two targets to bounce to and from.
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20 attacks a round sounds like heaven to me! =D
But sneak attack cant possibly apply with so many attacks, can it?
What if i had a double-barreled pistol with a talisman around my neck allowing the gun to fire scorching rays instead of bullets? Then with scorching rays on level 11, i'd fire 2 x 3 rays! hitting with 6 rays with sneak attack, and since they would all be immediately fired, i wouldn't break my stealth meanwhile firing, and then I'd use my move action for stealth again.
Then rinse and repeat every round! Btw. I'm doing this with blur cast upon myself from a wand, during the surprise round.
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Reecy, im not certain how that would work.
First off, manyshot only adds 1 hit (and u cant add sneak attack with the bonus hit), it also requires the attack to be part of a full round attack action, same for rapid shot (but can apply sneak attack).
I don't know so much about anything aside from the core rulebook but I'm interesting in learning how that swift action attack and move 30 ft for stealth works.
You could fire scorching rays through a gun if you really had the inclination, but it's not much better than straight up casting them.
Spellslinger (Wizard Archetype)
No dual wielding or double barrel firing.
If you want to get a similar feel then you can buy a lesser metamagic quicken rod - the cost is 35000g - or apply quickened metamagic (6th level spell, 5th level spell if you take a trait). You'd get two scorching ray casts and still have a move action but only one cast would get sneak attack damage.
Maybe you could try combining Whirlwind Attack, Lunge using a whip. You could Feint your enemies, then Sneak Attack anyone in like 20 feet.
There was a build out there doing this but it used some Figther levels IIRC.
It takes 9 levels of two weapon warrior fighter archetype to be able to make 2 attacks as a standard action. 6 is ludicrous.
It takes 20 levels of mobile fighter to get a full attack as a standard action. You wish to make an item that has the same power as a level 20 character? Admittedly, mobile fighters get a pseudo pounce (lose their highest that allows one move and a conditional full attack BAB attack) at level 11.
If you want full attack and sneak attack damage, pounce on a scout archetype rogue would be best. This simplifies your conditions so that you can aim for mechanics already in the game. The easiest way I know of doing this without multiclassing into 10 levels of barbarian (or risking GM ire by even suggesting synthesist)is going with a kitsune, and then taking their Vulpine Pounce feat. This allows you to do a pounce in the same round you shift into you furry form. With normal TWF build, you can end up with 7 attacks (you get a bite). This requires BAB +10, which would be around level 14 for a monoclass rogue.
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They are ranged touch attacks, so they are legal for sneak attack dice RAW... I don't know many DMs that would be happy with a Sneak Attack by saying Ni though.6th level Sound Striker Bard. Weird Words.
There was a thread on it not too long ago.
I never said it wasn't broken. :) But it does work RAW from what I can tell. And as requested, it's a standard, so in a surprise round, you'll get all of the attacks off. It's not too much more than a wizard could do with something like Fiery Shuriken, which only takes a 3 level dip (though to get to 6 Shuriken you need to be 11th. At 7th, you'd have 4 find a couple of ways to boost caster level and you could maybe get to 5).
I think a GM is more likely to allow a written power that requires 6 levels of Bard than a custom magic item that requires no class dip and fires a spell from each finger in the same standard action. Not that either is necessarily balanced, but one passes the PFS test, at least. This whole thread is about finding a RAW way to maximize sneak attacks, so by it's nature any solution is going to feel like extreme optimization or existing on the edge of the rules.
There was a post (by Jason I think) that clarified some changes and updates in the playtest. These never made it into the document (time to update and edit the PDF outweighed the benefits I guess).
If I recall correctly the init thing changed to where you could use a Mythic Point to get an additional standard action, but it still limited spells to one swift and one standard so that you couldn't cast two standard action spells with this method.
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Well, if your GM will approve custom magic items, you could make a command word activated item with scorching ray and quickened scorching ray both at caster level 11 - that will get you 6 attacks for a standard and swift action.
You'd be looking at 6*11*1800+1.5*2*11*1800=178,000 gp for that bad boy however. For comparision, a wand of greater invisibility is only 21,000 gp.
Heck, getting 6 attacks a round even as a full attack is something that requires a decent feat and/or level investment.
A monk of the four winds 12/two weapon warrior 9 can take 3 standard actions in a round, making two attacks with each. So just get that then start taking rogue levels for sneak attack. Yknow, at level 21.:)
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The recent FAQ affects this. Scorching Ray (and other simultaneous multi-attack spells) only provide a single sneak attack.
Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).
So definitely no multiple sneak attacks with Scorching Ray. Weird Words for a bard does not say simultaneous, so does that mean it works? Or is it considered simultaneous since all the attacks happen as a standard? Other spells, I don't know. And it also seems with the way this FAQ is worded, you don't get multiple sneak attacks even if you target 2 or 3 different creatures.