Dasrak |
Nope, charge is a full round action and whirlwind is in the place of a full attack action. Two separate things. There are a couple ways to be able to perform a full attack at the end of a charge, but aside from that you're out of options.
As for why whirlwind attack requires spring attack, your guess is as good as mine. It's an interesting feat hidden behind an obnoxiously long feat chain.
DesolateHarmony |
Dasrak |
Is there any way for a fighter to get it?
None that I'm aware of. Best option is the beast totem barbarian.
EDIT - mobile fighter will work at the 20th, though that's a long time to wait. By RAW it looks like Rapid Attack won't work with Whirlwind Attack; it stipulates that you give up your attack at your highest attack bonus, which is the only one you get to make with whirlwind attack. Furthermore, because the 20th level version calls out WW attack specifically, I'd read that strongly as the author implying it doesn't work with the 11th level version.
I'd probably rule that you can WW attack at a -5 penalty with the 11th level version; I'm sure most GM's would be accommodating.
buddahcjcc |
So this may have been asked a thousand times and I am sorry for being 1001 person to probably ask.
But Charge is a full round action so does that qualify it to work with Whirlwind?
If not then why is Whirlwind require you to have spring attack??
What about Cleave for that matter
I ask as Im playing a barbarian and it was suggested I get cleave for fairly obvious reasons but mostly what I do is charging in to attack. Can you charge and Cleave at the end?Is there any way for a fighter to get it?
Go Barbarian deep enough to get the ability
Ansel Krulwich |
What about Cleave for that matter
I ask as Im playing a barbarian and it was suggested I get cleave for fairly obvious reasons but mostly what I do is charging in to attack. Can you charge and Cleave at the end?
No. Charge is a full-round action and Cleave is a standard action so you cannot take both actions in a single round.
You can Charge and perform a swift and/or free action but not another move or standard.
buddahcjcc |
buddahcjcc wrote:What about Cleave for that matter
I ask as Im playing a barbarian and it was suggested I get cleave for fairly obvious reasons but mostly what I do is charging in to attack. Can you charge and Cleave at the end?No. Charge is a full-round action and Cleave is a standard action so you cannot take both actions in a single round.
You can Charge and perform a swift and/or free action but not another move or standard.
You can Pounce and do it though right?
Pupsocket |
pounce specifically lets you take a full attack at the end, not a full round action.
But reading Whirlwind Attack, you find that it's an option when taking "the full-attack action", not a separate full-round action.
Pounce allows you to make "a full attack". Are "full attack" and "full attack action" meant as distinct things? Probably not, especially given how the explanation of full attack in the combat chapter doesn't distinguish between the two.
Thomas Long 175 |
Thomas Long 175 wrote:pounce specifically lets you take a full attack at the end, not a full round action.But reading Whirlwind Attack, you find that it's an option when taking "the full-attack action", not a separate full-round action.
Pounce allows you to make "a full attack". Are "full attack" and "full attack action" meant as distinct things? Probably not, especially given how the explanation of full attack in the combat chapter doesn't distinguish between the two.
I'd be inclined to say so considering that attack action and attack aren't the same thing either.
Edit: actually because of the wording of whirlwind, I'd be inclined to say you're right. They probably would.
Malleus Maleficarum |
I once built a character to specifically get to whirlwind attack. He was a fighter who wanted to be a rogue. We kept him in mithril medium and equipped him with a reach weapon. He stealthed with the rest of the party just fine. The int for combat expertise and being human gave him skills. Definitely a great second tank option if you're considering it. Spring attack is one of my favorite feats especially with dex and combat reflexes.
TGMaxMaxer |
Looking at it in that light, Whirlwind actually makes more sense to be the final feat in the cleave chain, after great cleave.
Cleave: Make one extra attack in reach and adjacent, if the first hits.
Great Cleave: (BAB +4)Make an attack on each adjacent target in reach, so long as each hits.
Whirlwind: (BAB +4) Make one attack on every target within reach, no longer requires adjacent, no longer requires prior hits.
Are |
I agree that it's silly for the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack feat chain to be a prerequisite for Whirlwind Attack. It was the same in 3.5, and it was equally silly then.
In PF, there's actually a rather obvious feat chain that could have had Whirlwind Attack added to it; namely the Cleave/Great Cleave chain. Whirlwind Attack would be a suitable "capstone" for that feat chain, in my opinion.
There's, however, no reason to FAQ a question like this.
buddahcjcc |
Thomas Long 175 wrote:pounce specifically lets you take a full attack at the end, not a full round action.But reading Whirlwind Attack, you find that it's an option when taking "the full-attack action", not a separate full-round action.
Pounce allows you to make "a full attack". Are "full attack" and "full attack action" meant as distinct things? Probably not, especially given how the explanation of full attack in the combat chapter doesn't distinguish between the two.
um so yes or no O.o
Thomas Long 175 |
buddahcjcc wrote:"GM call" - there's a "probably" in my argument. By designer intent? Probably not. Pounce was never really meant for weapon users - see for example the ragelancepounce barbarian and, well, the question at hand. Should you allow it? Absolutely yes.
um so yes or no O.o
Rage lance pounce has been FAQ'd away. While riding a mount that is charging you gain the benefits and penalties of charge but are no longer considered charging yourself. Thus opening you up for standard actions like vital strikes or the Two handed fighters crit on command ability.
Pupsocket |
Pupsocket wrote:Rage lance pounce has been FAQ'd away. While riding a mount that is charging you gain the benefits and penalties of charge but are no longer considered charging yourself. Thus opening you up for standard actions like vital strikes or the Two handed fighters crit on command ability.
"GM call" - there's a "probably" in my argument. By designer intent? Probably not. Pounce was never really meant for weapon users - see for example the ragelancepounce barbarian and, well, the question at hand. Should you allow it? Absolutely yes.
I know that; my point is that ragelancepounce happened because the implications of pounce were not considered before introducing it to weapon users.
Who, AFAICT, can Whirlwind Pounce at level 12, at the very earliest. A summoner can do it at level 11, a synthesist or druid at level 9, and as early as 5 or 7 if willing to multiclass.
buddahcjcc |
buddahcjcc wrote:"GM call" - there's a "probably" in my argument. By designer intent? Probably not. Pounce was never really meant for weapon users - see for example the ragelancepounce barbarian and, well, the question at hand. Should you allow it? Absolutely yes.
um so yes or no O.o
If pounce wasnt meant for weapon users why havent they errattaed it to you cant use a weapon when you pounce?
buddahcjcc |
Thomas Long 175 wrote:Pupsocket wrote:Rage lance pounce has been FAQ'd away. While riding a mount that is charging you gain the benefits and penalties of charge but are no longer considered charging yourself. Thus opening you up for standard actions like vital strikes or the Two handed fighters crit on command ability.
"GM call" - there's a "probably" in my argument. By designer intent? Probably not. Pounce was never really meant for weapon users - see for example the ragelancepounce barbarian and, well, the question at hand. Should you allow it? Absolutely yes.
I know that; my point is that ragelancepounce happened because the implications of pounce were not considered before introducing it to weapon users.
Who, AFAICT, can Whirlwind Pounce at level 12, at the very earliest. A summoner can do it at level 11, a synthesist or druid at level 9, and as early as 5 or 7 if willing to multiclass.
Then again, synth summoner gets perfect flight at like lvl 5 lol