Barbarian / Martial Artist

[EldonG]

...the Monk archetype.

Don't worry too much about stats...assume 25 pb, if it helps, but I use the grid. I think it could really be an interesting build, but I'm not 100% sure how to go about it to make it work...especially as it rises through the levels.

What race would be ideal?
What Bbn archetype?
What feats/traits/rage powers?
What magic items outside of the Monk's Robe?

Unarmed is fine, but not really the idea...unarmored is the idea.

[Brad McDowell]

Remember you can flurry with any weapon that has the monk property. So how about the Sansetsukon as your weapon of choice?

[soupturtle]

I've actually thought about this recently, and I've come up with this:

1 urban barbarian / x martial artist monk:

human

ability scores (20 pts):
str 17, dex 14, con 14, int 10, wis 14, cha 8

traits: blade of mercy, dangerously curious

feats:
1. power attack, extra rage (human),
2. dodge (monk), improved unarmed strike (monk), stunning fist (monk)
3. step up, combat reflexes (monk)
5. weapon focus temple sword
7. disruptive, improved trip (monk)
9. big game hunter
11. improved critical, spring attack (monk)
13. pin down

The reason for the monk focus is threefold. One: the martial artist's main ability has a DC based on monk level. Two: flurry of blows is a pretty bad deal if you don't take a lot of monk levels. Three: all the good rage powers scale with barbarian level, so most aren't reat for a multiclass build anyway. I've gone for urban barbarian because I don't like the AC penalty from normal rage, and this also gives the option to apply the bonus to dex when fighting at range or when you really need a few extra points of AC.

I've gone for the temple sword, because as far as I can tell it's the best monk weapon you're proficient with that allows for two-handed flurry (aka: flurrying with a single weapon held in two hands for the 1.5x power attack bonus).

As to magical items: this build only really needs a +X temple sword, a couple of special material back up weapons, and the usual strength, wisdom, saves and AC increasing belts, rings, amulets etc. I'd also try for a wand of heroism and boots of speed.

[Lobolusk]

but if you get level 10 of both you can rage cycle with impunity

[Kazaan]

Are you just aiming for combining Barb with Monk? If so, martial artist isn't your only route. You could be an Aasimar with the Enlightened Warrior trait and be a NG or TN Monk (or any race with the Adopted trait who picks Enlightened Warrior). Then, you can combine Barb with other Monk archetypes.

Beyond that, I'd recommend just a dip into Martial Artist to get Fatigue immunity at lvl 5 and maybe bonus feat at lvl 6 and then focus on Barb. That will be better for your Rage Power progression. Monk's Robes and Monastic Legacy can round out your unarmed strike dice, then you just focus on ramping up the damage output.

Half-Orc for intimidate bonus and darkvision
Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Cha>Int
Lvl 1) Martial Artist 1; Power Attack, Unarmed Strike (monk)
Lvl 2) Urban Barb 1
Lvl 3) Martial Artist 2; Weapon Focus(Temple Sword), Dodge (monk bonus)
Lvl 4) Martial Artist 3
Lvl 5) Martial Artist 4; Intimidating Prowress
Lvl 6) Martial Artist 5
Lvl 7) Martial Artist 6; Cornugon Smash, Improved Trip (monk bonus)
Lvl 8) Urban Barb 2; (rage power, your choice)
Lvl 9) Urban Barb 3; Weapon Specialization(Temple Sword)
Lvl 10) Urban Barb 4; (rage power, your choice)
Lvl 11) Urban Barb 5; Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike)
Lvl 12) Urban Barb 6; (rage power, your choice)
Lvl 13) Urban Barb 7; Monastic Legacy
Lvl 14) Urban Barb 8; (rage power, your choice)

Your rage powers can either bolster your combat effectiveness or you can use the abilities to shore up your weaknesses. Intimidate to demoralize (and play "bad cop" to your party's diplomat) and beat them up. While you will Flurry with the Temple Sword at 1x Str even though you wield it in 2 hands, you'll still get the 2-h bonus from Power Attack so use that to your advantage. Then, it's just a matter of beating their faces into chowder. The sword will give you slashing and Unarmed Strikes will give blunt so just fill in piercing to cover all damage resistance and you're right as rain.

[EldonG]

Since I posted my request, I've come up with something...I can see why people suggest Urban Bbn, but I went in a different direction using Invulnerable Rager:
1) Bbn1
2) Mart1
3) Bbn2
4) Mart2
5) Bbn3
6) Mart3
7) Bbn4
8) Mart4
9+) Bbn5-16

...working on tiger (bestial) totem and tiger style. Not sure about what feats when, and my time is limited, right now, but DR 8 isn't bad, and d10 open hand damage (monk's robe) with +2 attacks flurrying only losing 1 bab...getting pounce and the tiger style stuff...

What are people's thoughts on it? I think it could be pretty brutal, with really good stats.

[Grizzly the Archer]

Currently running a full barb, but I can tell you that if you focus on damage like you want to, you will be impressed with the numbers. Pounce opens lots of options.

[soupturtle]

A martial artist had basically three main abilities: the exploit weakness ability at level 4 (which has a DC based on monk level), immunity to fatigue at 5 (and exhaustion at 10) and reducing ability score damage from level 7.

If you only take 4 levels, the first one will suck and you won't get the second two. So for your 4 monk / x barbarian build, you would be much better off with a few unarmed fighter levels instead of the monk levels. Or some levels of another monk archetype with the Enlightened Warrior trait.

[Byrdology]

Dwarf for sure. 16, 16, 14, 10, 15, 8 for stats. I'd use a reach weapon, and then flurry at close melee range.

6-8 lvls of martial artist give you 4-5 attacks with a better than reasonably good chance to hit, while the good BaB and hd from barbarian just makes you have that much more staying power.

[Cap. Darling]

I was thinking about this thing exactly. My Inv. rager barb is just about to turn 3 and i was thinking about 2 levels as a MA monk.
The feats can double up as the ones i was planning to get form that figther AT.
At the price of 1 DR, 1 Bab and 1, rage power( and 8 hitpionts assuming i can retrain). I get the 2 feats, Improved unarmed combat, stunning fist, the option to flurry, evasion, a solid boost to saves, sense motive and stealth on the class list and the option to go unarmored with wis to AC.
To me that, sounds like a bargain. Pehaps in time i will also get that tripartstaff thingie and som star shaped throwing stuff.

Edit:Forgot stunning fist and corrected a bit of spelling and hitpoints.

[soupturtle]

I don't think flurry is worth it if you're not going up to al least monk 8. Before that, flurry gives you one extra attack, at the cost of -2 to all your attacks. For a weapon-wielder, that's definitely not worth it, as your flurry attacks only add 1x str to damage. For an unarmed combatant it's worth it at low levels, but once you get iteratives and a haste effect that -2 to all attacks is costing you more than you gain from the single extra attack.

That doesn't mean a short monk dip is never worthwhile, but I wouldn't do it if flurry is one of your main draws.

[EDWARD DEANGELIS]

How about an Oread as race +2 str and +2 wis -2 Cha. Has base speed 20 but a level in Barb will fix that and with enough levels in monk his speed with increase. Also racial trait of Oread gives +1 Nat AC.

[Cap. Darling]

Since i am a fan of the well rounden hero i whould suggest stats around the line of.
Human
Str 16(with the 2 from human)
Con 14
Dex 14
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 13 (25 point buy)
Barb 2, monk 2 and barb rest or at least till come and get me at barb 12.
1: B1: Power attack and Endurance at level 1
2: B2: Some rage power(RP) i suggest superstious( and human favored class bonus in that all the way) on level 2.
3: M1: Combat reflexes. Crane style.
4: M2: Dodge
5: B3: Diehard.
6: B4: RP: Reckless abandon( or another favorite)
7: B5: Stalwart
8: B6: RP:Lesser BT
9: B7: Crane Wing
10:B8: RP:Beast totem.
11:B9: Crane riposte
12:B10:RP:Greater Beast totem(pounce)
13:B11:improved Stalwart ( and DR +8 for -1 to hit)
14:B12:RP:Come and get me.

Edit: Stuff

This is wery close to how i imagine my own barbarian will look it we ever get to level 14 and after that i have no clue.

[EldonG]

Ok...looking again, Mart8/Inv12 might be the better balance...and with a monk's belt, that's 2d6 dmg and +3 to AC...lose a couple of DR, but that's not a bad trade-off.

[prototype00]

Hmm, if you get a Ring of Rat Fangs, you will gain a bite attack, which isn't a lot in itself, but does give you the ability to take the multiattack feat (3 natural attacks required) which will lower the penalty on those claw secondary attacks to -2.

prototype00

[EldonG]

prototype00 wrote:

Hmm, if you get a Ring of Rat Fangs, you will gain a bite attack, which isn't a lot in itself, but does give you the ability to take the multiattack feat (3 natural attacks required) which will lower the penalty on those claw secondary attacks to -2.

prototype00

LOL...that's a blast. I was going to just take Animal Fury...but that's pretty cool, too. I doubt he'll use the claws much.

[EldonG]

Wow.

I just rolled a grid array for him. It isn't perfect, not by a shot, but 3 17s in a row? Crazy.
.
.

.....Int..Wis..Cha
Str..17...10...15
Dex..17...8....12
Con..17...13...14

So...
Str 17, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 15

Before racials. The Int and Cha are pretty exceptional, compared to expected...the Wis lacks a bit...but dayum, he rocks overall!

Just human...bump Wis...or...hmmm...Str? Dex? Wow.

[prototype00]

EldonG wrote:

prototype00 wrote:

Hmm, if you get a Ring of Rat Fangs, you will gain a bite attack, which isn't a lot in itself, but does give you the ability to take the multiattack feat (3 natural attacks required) which will lower the penalty on those claw secondary attacks to -2.

prototype00

LOL...that's a blast. I was going to just take Animal Fury...but that's pretty cool, too. I doubt he'll use the claws much.

Ah right, you can't flurry and natural attack at the same time. Bummer.

prototype00

[Cap. Darling]

EldonG wrote:

Wow.

I just rolled a grid array for him. It isn't perfect, not by a shot, but 3 17s in a row? Crazy.
.
.

.....Int..Wis..Cha
Str..17...10...15
Dex..17...8....12
Con..17...13...14

So...
Str 17, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 15

Before racials. The Int and Cha are pretty exceptional, compared to expected...the Wis lacks a bit...but dayum, he rocks overall!

Just human...bump Wis...or...hmmm...Str? Dex? Wow.

I may misundestand the grid thing but if i dont i whould put the 15 in Str and bump that one to 17. and then put the 17 in con and the 14 in Cha. And then i whould cry abit that not all stat incrises could go to str:0)

[Ughbash]

Str 15, dex 17, con 17, int 17, wis 13 char 14 looks better to me.

[EldonG]

So...17 Str instead of 19, for 1 more Con bonus? Hmmm...maybe.

Str 17, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 14. It's pretty sweet...that's human...

What about dual bonus? Into Wis?

[Cap. Darling]

EldonG wrote:

So...17 Str instead of 19, for 1 more Con bonus? Hmmm...maybe.

Str 17, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 14. It's pretty sweet...that's human...

What about dual bonus? Into Wis?

heart of the fields is very nice. And the Dual bonus excludes that. And if you want to get the stalwart feats to max that DR you Will want the feat also.

[EldonG]

Cap. Darling wrote:

EldonG wrote:

So...17 Str instead of 19, for 1 more Con bonus? Hmmm...maybe.

Str 17, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 14. It's pretty sweet...that's human...

What about dual bonus? Into Wis?

heart of the fields is very nice. And the Dual bonus excludes that. And if you want to get the stalwart feats to max that DR you Will want the feat also.

It is definitely cool, but how does it play into Stalwart?

Edit: NVM, you just mean it's feat-intensive. Agreed.

[Gliz]

Wis is crucial. Since you can't opt for higher than 13, I would definitely go:

Str 17, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 14

And put all stat bumps into Str/Wis.*

I would aim to bump Wis with a headband as quickly and as often as possible.

If you go human, I would also consider the Dual Talent option. If you take it, definitely go Str/Wis. Giving up the feat matters more than giving up Heart of the Fields, but both factors will be mitigated over time, as you gain more feats and as you gain immunity to fatigue from Martial Artist (which, when you get it, will make Heart of the Fields feel like a waste). It's a tough call, as the feat is a big reason to go human.

If you don't go human, then dwarf is the way to go (of the core races). The stat bonuses in Con/Wis are the next best thing to a hypothetical Str/Wis.

All favored class bonuses go to hit points.

Start with the Urban Barbarian at level 1, so that you have +1 BAB at level 1 and qualify for the better feats like Power Attack right off the bat.

I don't know anything about how the temple sword works with flurry of blows, so I can't comment.

I'm still getting into my coffee, so I hope this was coherent and useful.

* [EDIT: level 20 (if you get there) would go to Dex to keep stats even, assuming you don't acquire an inherent stat bonus along the way.]

[Gliz]

For traits, my first thoughts are 'Berserker of the Society' and 'Heavy Hitter.'

[EldonG]

Well, I have him worked out.

He's crazy cool, IMO.

When Surrat was only 10, he was taken from his village by hobgoblin slavers. They came in force, when the men were out on a hunt...and they even took 2 of the young tigers, the totem beasts of the village. As Surrat was strong and agile for his age, and a quick learner, they set him to building the stockade. One of his first tasks was a pen for the tigers.

Though the encampment was large, there weren't many hobgoblins...the majority were goblins, and mostly human slaves. It was humiliating to work under goblin overseers, and the little beasts were cruel bullies. Surrat largely kept to himself, or talked with the other captives from his village - they had taken the young, mostly, and a few women.

At first, he hoped that the men would come to rescue them, but within a month, there were more slavers, and more slaves - the camp was larger, and the stockade more secure. He was heartbroken when he heard that a number of the men had attempted a rescue, but been discovered before they ever got to the camp, and ambushed.

He only found out about that when the wounded slavers came back. The tigers had mauled several of them, even as they ambushed the men. Tigers are not to be trifled with.

For a couple of years, Surrat slaved away, working on their stockade and making it secure. It tore at his heart. Even worse, the tigers, now almost mature, were released into a pit from time to time, with a slave who didn't perform as he should...several of Surrat's own people had met their fates this way. No slaves had ever even come close to surviving the pit.

Surrat was nearing the day he'd come of age. as if that mattered anymore. He hated the goblins. He hated the hobgoblins even worse. He detested the orcs that sometimes came and bough slaves for a few coin. He'd come to mistrust anyone not of his village...except for a few other humans that had proven their worth. Certainly, the elf slaves were worthless...they couldn't even work a good day...and the dwarves would never even speak to any other races. He despised them all.

When Ishra collapsed in the fields one day - one of the village women Surrat always respected - and they brought her in and tossed her in the pit, Surrat knew it was time...even though his day was still more than a month away, he would become a man. He had to.

He climbed down from where he was working on the wall, and approached the overseers, adze in hand. His demeanour might have been a bit harsh, but he often had approached them, so they weren't overly wary...and as he suddenly roared in his fury and caved in the first one's skull, they were in total shock. All three went down within seconds, and Surrat raged through the compound, dropping one after another.

By the time his rage had ended, Surrat had slain most of the goblins in the immediate area, and the rest were preparing for him...even worse, the hobgoblins were coming. Surrat was exhausted, almost completely...but he'd barely been scratched.

He was by the back doors of the pens. He'd planned it, almost subconsciously...and he knew what he was about to do. As the hobgoblins came around the corner, Surrat pulled the pins and released the tigers - both of them. The hobgoblins always taunted them, and he was pretty sure the tigers hated them...while Surrat himself always brought them what little extras he could. One tiger looked at him for a moment, barely a foot away, before both sprang on the hobgoblins.

Surrat turned and staggered away, heading for the slave pen his people were kept in, and within moments, they were on their way, free of the slavers. It took almost 3 days to get back to the village. Surrat slept through the first feast celebrating their return, but after his story was told, the village celebrated again once he was rested.

Heart of the Fields
Xenophobic
Threatening Defender
Rough and Ready
Enemy of Slavers

Combat Expertise
Power Attack

Skills:
Acrobatics
Climb
Craft: Carpentry
Handle Animal
Intimidate
Perception
Survival

That's him as a starting character...1 point in each skill, natch.

[EldonG]

Gliz wrote:

For traits, my first thoughts are 'Berserker of the Society' and 'Heavy Hitter.'

I looked at Berserker...it looks cool, but I just can't get it to mesh...Heavy Hitter looks sweet, though...very cool. I might have to do that in place of Enemy of Slavers...