Noted. Jakiro would switch to increasing his AC with ki, but I assume things won't change drastically to the outcome of the battle, albeit it may come to a much closer tally on the hitpoints for both sides. Hopefully Jakiro's party can put up some additional pressure.
That's good enough for me... I'll try to run Mork, the 2-Handed Ranger (henceforth referred to as 2HR) and one of my TWF Rangers...
Let's see...
Undead creature! Awesome!
Incorporeal... Well, screw you, wraithstrike! (JK, wraith! I like you! ^^)
I'd say swamps have plenty of cover, actually, there are tress, mud, roots, vines and fog everywhere, though it probably means PCs will have to deal with difficult terrain...
Now, Witchfires can cast Invisibility at will. So either someone uses something like Glitterdust or he wins. It's that simple. All it has to do is attack, move away, become invisible and move again, wait a few minutes so the PCs lose their buffs, and repeat. It has Int 17, there's no way it'd be dumb enough to try a frontal attack unless it absolutely has to. So I'll assume the party Wizard/Sorcerer/whatever casts Glitterdust on it right after both the Monk (or Ranger) and the witchfire have acted, but the witchfire makes its save and not be blinded.
I assume the PCs know about as much as the wraithstrike as it knows about them. In this case, PCs know there is a evil creature haunting the swamps, and the witchfire knows humanoids it's being hunted
This flaming bastard has Initiative +10 and Stealth +19 (before Inisibility!) That means Mork will most likely be taken by surprise even if he knows there's a witchfire around.
In the case of Mork, that means his AC against the Witchfire's touch attack is 17... There goes 25hp... Plus 40% chance of Witchflame... -.-'
Well, f~~%...
2nd Round
Witchfire attacks again... That's another 30.3 damage... Mork only has 23.7 hp left... Unless his friends help him, he'll be dead in the next round... -.-'
His best chance to help is charging the witchfire and tripping it, and charges may not be possible due to difficult terrain. Unfortunately, he has a 60% chance of succeeding. Doesn't really matter, the witchfire can still kill Mork anyway, but at least it's prone now, so hopefully, the other party members can kill it fast enough to save Mork's life...
3rd round
Mork is either dead or retreating. The witchfire is likely prone, so that -4 AC against melee attacks... Hopefully someone has Resist Energy or Protection From Energy prepared... Or at least a few ice spells... -.-'
And all of that is assuming the Witchfire doesn't spend a few rounds to summon will-o'-wisps and make them invisible (as well as itself)
This is a difficult encounter for any martial character or unprepared caster... Unless Mork's companions can offer significant help, he'll most likely die or run to the hills... Sadly...
1st Round - Surprise!
If 2HR knows there are witchfires around, can use Survival +26 to track the witchfire and Perception +26 to notice its presence(Favored Enemy FTW!). 2HR will likely fail his knowledge check, but since witchfires are freaking flaming creatures, I believe it's safe to say 2HR would be smart enough to cast Resist Energy on himself. That means he gets Fire Resistance 20.
If the Witchfire is not constantly casting Invisibility on itself, then 2HR will strike first, otherwise, the opening move goes to the witchfire, and it probably will, because why wouldn't it be invisible all the time?
It goes first, and takes 2HR by Surprise... That's 27.9, plus 50% witch fire... That's an extra 7.5 damage next time it hits 2HR...
2nd Round
Witchfire's turn again... 35.4 damage... 2HR has 45.93 HP left. He casts Resist Energy (Fire) on himself and move as close to the Witchfire as he possibly can, drawing his sword if it's possible to move enough to be adjacent to it, otherwise he draws his bow.
3rd Round
The Witchfire doesn't have any ranks in Spellcraft, so he doesn't know what spell 2HR just cast. He attacks again, but this time, 2HR is not flatfooted! That's total of 33.9 damage. Which is reduced to 13.9... Doesn't matter... 2hR still has 32.03hp left
2HR full attacks with melee if possible. His DPR against the creature is 78.54, but since it's incorporeal, this damage is reduced by half, to 39.27.
If it's still at ranged-combat distance, he attacks with his longbow, for 71.66 DPR, which is reduced to 35.83... G#@!@+n incorporeal creatures... -,-'
4th Round:
The witchfire might notice his attack was not very effective... It might try one again just to be sure (DPR 13.9 again), or he might use this round to summon 2 Will-O'-Wisp, who together, deal 18 shock damage to 2HR... I'll assume it deals the average between these 2 damage outputs: 15.95.
2HR still hast 19.88 hp. He full attacks again! That's another 39.27 damage to the flaming bastard if melee or 36.83 if ranged.
5th Round:
Witchfire + Will-O'-Wisps will kill 2HR unless one of his friends helps him...
2HR also bites the dust...
Well, at least he got to deal a significant amount of damage (at least 62.3% of the Witchfire's life), even though he was caught by surprise and was fighting "alone" against an enemy creature that is particularly powerful against martials.
That's more than Mork can say -.-'
I think you missed my entry for the fighter:
Human (Shoanti) Fighter 10
N Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +12
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 27, touch 15, flat-footed 24 (+11 armor, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 100 (10d10+36)
Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +9 (+3 vs. fear); +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons
Defensive Abilities bravery +3
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +3 Falchion +25/+20 (2d4+18/15-20/x2) and
. . +3 Falchion +25/+17 (2d4+27/15-20/x2) with Power Attack and
. . Gauntlet (from Armor) +16/+11 (1d3+6/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +16/+11 (1d3+6/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +6) +16/+11 (1d8+9/x3)
Special Attacks weapon training abilities (heavy blades +4, bows +3)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +10; CMB +16; CMD 31 (35 vs. Disarm, 35 vs. Sunder)
Feats Dodge, Furious Focus, Greater Weapon Focus (Falchion), Improved Critical (Falchion), Improved Iron Will (1/day), Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack -3/+6, Step Up, Toughness +10, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Weapon Specialization (Falchion)
Traits Deft Dodger, Indomitable Faith
Skills Acrobatics +1, Climb +12, Escape Artist -1, Fly -1, Handle Animal +4, Intimidate +3, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (engineering) +5, Perception +12, Profession (soldier) +6, Ride +6, Stealth -1, Survival +8, Swim +7
Languages Common, Shoanti
Other Gear +2 Full plate, +3 Falchion, Arrows (20), Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +6), Amulet of natural armor +1, Belt of physical might (Str & Dex +2), Cloak of resistance +1, Gloves of dueling, Ioun stone (dusty rose prism), Ring of protection +1, 97 PP, 1004 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bravery +3 (Ex) +3 to Will save vs. Fear
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Gloves of dueling These supple gloves grant the wearer a +4 bonus to her CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder her wielded weapons, and effects that cause her to lose her grip on her weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn't drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, her weapon training bonus increases by +2.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon; Cost 7,500 gp
Improved Iron Will (1/day) Can re-roll a Will save, but must take the second result.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +4 (Ex) +4 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
Weapon Training (Bows) +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows
I think you missed my entry for the fighter:
** spoiler omitted **...
Sorry about that Dabbler.
Lemmy, the creature is incorporal. You won't be tripping him, bullrushing, grappling, and so one... :)
Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled.
Lemmy, the creature is incorporal. You won't be tripping him, bullrushing, grappling, and so one... :)
Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled.
Ah, I forgot about that, it also flies, which makes it double impossible to trip... Doesn't really matter, though, even if it could be tripped, it'd still kill Mork in that very same round.
Witchfires are really dangerous for their CR.
- Incorporeal
- At will Invisibility
- 8d6 (x1.5) damage every round...
Unless one of the casters can provide Glitterdust, Resist/Protection from Energy and/or a bunch of ice-based blasting spells, martial character will have a difficult time around it.
2HR could have done it if he had won initiative, though...
Lemmy, the creature is incorporal. You won't be tripping him, bullrushing, grappling, and so one... :)
Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled.Ah, I forgot about that, it also flies, which makes it double impossible to trip... Doesn't really matter, though, even if it could be tripped, it'd still kill Mork in that very same round.
Witchfires are really dangerous for their CR.
- Incorporeal
- At will Invisibility
- 8d6 (x1.5) damage every round...Unless one of the casters can provide Glitterdust, Resist/Protection from Energy and/or a bunch of ice-based blasting spells, martial character will have a difficult time around it.
2HR could have done it if he had won initiative, though...
The barbarian has a decent chance, but only if there is no difficult terrain. If there is difficult terrain he gets his butt kicked also.
I don't imagine the barbarian should have trouble with difficult terrain, its just 2000gp for featherstep slippers. However, difficult terrain shouldn't be the issue with the Witchfire: she's flying and cackling (and crackling) like mad.
After dealing with or running from the witchfire our heroes continue into a marsh where a prehistoric predator lurks. Luckily it only has a stealth bonus of +8 even when in the water, but unforunately this marsh is difficult terrain so no charging for the barbarians unless they can fly, and it is block the path forward so the options are to use party resources to fight it or fly by it. It does however have an init modifier of +4.
Crocodile, Dire CR 9
XP 6,400
N Gargantuan animal
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +14
DEFENSE
AC 21, touch 6, flat-footed 21 (+15 natural, –4 size)
hp 138 (12d8+84)
Fort +15, Ref +8, Will +8
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., swim 30 ft.; sprint
Melee bite +18 (3d6+13/19–20 plus grab) and tail slap +13 (4d8+6)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks death roll (3d6+19 plus trip), swallow whole (3d6+13, AC 16, 13 hp)
STATISTICS
Str 37, Dex 10, Con 25, Int 1, Wis 14, Cha 2
Base Atk +9; CMB +26 (+30 grapple); CMD 36 (40 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Run, Skill Focus (Perception, Stealth)
Skills Perception +14, Stealth +0 (+8 in water), Swim +21; Racial Modifiers +8 Stealth in water
SQ hold breath
Taking 10(mostly done for ease of play) means the croc has an 18 total.
The ranger taking 10 gives him a 31. That means he can spot the croc 130 feet out assuming the march has a max visibility of that distance. The max distance for detecting a creature in a swamp is 6d6(avg 21) × 10=210 so 130 feet is well within the proper range.
Taking 10 on knowledge nature lets the ranger know this animal is dangerous. Ok so the fact that it is Gargantuan should have been enough.
Well entering into melee just seems like a bad idea. They both have an init of +4, but the ranger has a higher dex mod. At 130 feet away he can see the croc, but with a 14 perception and taking 10 the croc saw the ranger at the max distance of 210 feet so no surprise round for the ranger. Well at 130 feet the croc knows he has been spotted so no need for subtlety.
He(the ranger) looks over and ask someone for a haste, but first we will assume that nobody has haste for the first version of this.
The ranger puts both weapons away draw his bow. The croc takes the run action while using sprint which gives him a run speed of 40. 40x40=160 BUT the marsh is difficult terrain so the croc only moves 80 however he is now within 20 feet of the ranger.
If no haste was availible the ranger can pull a Being just outside of the croc's reach he can cast longstrider and move 30 feet away. Longstrider last hours per level so it probably should have been cast a long time ago, but now he can kite the croc until its dead. The monster will never catch him.
The croc runs up to 40 feet. The ranger can move at least 30 just with a double move. If he runs he can move 120 feet away.
The ranger averages 8.2 DPR per shot with the bow. If he gets far away to get a full round attack in then he gets 13.28 DPR with his bow.
The croc should be dead within 12 rounds.
Note:Liberating Command does not do what I thought it did, and I thought I had taken it out..
I don't imagine the barbarian should have trouble with difficult terrain, its just 2000gp for featherstep slippers. However, difficult terrain shouldn't be the issue with the Witchfire: she's flying and cackling (and crackling) like mad.
My barbarian has potions of fly, but if he cant get full attacks in he loses the DPR contest, and as long as the witchfire is ducking behind trees or into the ground he can't pounce, the witchfire would only need to take one full attack to know that going toe to toe with the barbarian is a bad idea even if it only does take half damage.
What my monk does depends on how deflect arrows and the bolts interact.
If the monk can deflect the the monk tries to keep distance, deflecting and spring attacking it to death (or full attacking w/boots and ki if invisible and attempts a touch attack).
It is touch based incorporal* attack made of fire, not a physical bolt, so I dont see it being deflect or being caught and thrown back by snatch arrows, assuming you had the feat.
*All attacks made by incorporeal creatures are nonphysical(material) which even means crane wings should not work since there is no way to deflect the attack.
Dire Crocodile is usually the kind of encounter the PCs can avoid without problem...
The beast is likely to be at least partially submerse, and it probably minds its own business unless it's really hungry or if someone attacks it.
I don't see it chasing PCs too far from whatever water body it calls home unless attacked. Even if it's hungry, it'd probably stay around his home lake/pond/whatever and hunt whatever he usually hunts when there are no PCs around...
But even if it has a particular taste for humanoid flesh, both Mork and 2HR (as well as all my other Ranger builds) can notice the beast before it notices them, and sneak past it by taking 10 on their Stealth checks.
1 danger avoided, countless resources spared.
Having the means to avoid pointless battles also count as utility/versatility, IMO (e.g.: A Fighter would probably lack the necessary Stealth bonus, and most casters would need spells to avoid the beast) but if you want, I can post the battle later tonight. Right now, I'm usinga PC where I don't have neither HL nor my Excel DPR spreadsheet... -.-'
The worst case scenario, Croc grabs a PC and brings him/her underwater... Isn't that how Crocodiles act? I think that'd be closer to what's expected from a Dire Crocodile...
Stay away, it minds its own business. Get too close, he grabs you and pulls you underwater, where he has a HUGE advantage.
Jakiro should be able to spot the crocodile well away (31 perception, taking 10), and can stealth passed with a check of 30 (taking 10).
Should the dire crocodile become a threat for a different reason (perhaps Jakiro spots it as it is trying to sneak up on Little Suzy) then Jakiro feels confident in straight-up engaging the creature.
Round 1
Having higher initiative, Jakiro acts first, having stealthed to within a 5ft step (which he can take even in the marsh, due to his featherstep slippers)
flurry 2 * 0.85 * 18.5 * 1.1 + 2 * 0.6 * 18.5 * 1.1 = 59.0
dire crocodile 0.2 * 23.5 * 1.1 + 0.05 * 25 * 1.1 = 6.5
The dire crocodile is flustered, its primitive animal brain tells it that between fight or flight, a retreat is advised at this stage - unless it is desperately hungry or territorial - in which case the fight will continue with the same results as in round 1 and the crocodile will die in round 3, before it gets to act again.
I agree Lemmy. That is why I had it blocking the only way to move forward, but the potion of fly can get them past it if they don't want to fight it, and the monk can probably jump over it.
I agree Lemmy. That is why I had it blocking the only way to move forward, but the potion of fly can get them past it if they don't want to fight it, and the monk can probably jump over it.
Ah, I missed that part.
Well, Longstrider + Ranged seems like the ideal strategy here. If 2HR can attract it far enough from its underwater lair, entering melee is also possible, although unnecessary, unless one of his party members is too slow (in which case, he/she should be taking double move actions to run away while 2HR mkites the beast to death).
Barkskin is still active for 2HR, BTW, since the spell lasts 90min for him. It's likely it'll still be active on the next 1~2 battles as well.
(I'm assuming the rest of the party had to finish the Witchfire for 2HR, or do all the work for Mork)
BTW, The Crocodile will almost definitely grab whoever it bites. It has the Grab ability and a Grapple CMB of +30!
Most of the martials get their butts kicked by the Witchfire without buffs. I think so far the witchfire is undefeated if you go by the martial builds alone.
I think it is a matter of how many resources are poured in by the martials. For me it is remembering that Jakiro also needs to stock up on See Invisible and Darkvision potions.
A question: would having ghosttouch allow a monk to deflect a witchflame bolt? By my reckoning it should, but I'm throwing it out there.
See Invisible can't be a potion because its a personal spell. I dont remember if darkvision is or not.
RAW the rules are silent, but it makes sense for ghosttouch to do that.
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I think it is a matter of how many resources are poured in by the martials. For me it is remembering that Jakiro also needs to stock up on See Invisible and Darkvision potions.
A question: would having ghosttouch allow a monk to deflect a witchflame bolt? By my reckoning it should, but I'm throwing it out there.
It isn't so much a matter of see invisible, since it isn't great invisibility.
When it attacks, it appears. It only gets 1 attack, so the round it attacks it appears, attacks one person, then everyone dogpiles on it.
I agree that a dragon is not typically an opponent encountered 1v1. But on the other hand, me and GM's I play with, use all the dragon's tricks and powers appropriately. Either the party beats it anyway, or they run away really fast. (Or a TPK.) You cannot assume "it'll be stupid because it is prideful".
Apart from that, you're example fights need to account for terrain - we're not fighting on a featureless flat plane. The Fire Giant will make effort to approach a ranged combatant by ending its turns behind cover when possible. I'd usually rule for normal cover (rather than total cover), but that is still a +4 to AC that is not accounted for in the simulation fight. Yes, Bleeding Rain will still beat the Fire Giant just fine, but it is not as one sided as described initially.
As a ranged combatant, you need to always have a follow-up encounter, with the same monster where the monster ambushes Bleeding Rain - since you may not give your character the benefit of idealized starting conditions in all fights. E.g: surprise round charge by the Fire Giant to attack Bleeding Rain, then normal rounds after). Again I expect Bleeding Rain to win, but it will be even less easy as she doesn't have the range advantage to start with.
These are the types of conditions and encounters you need to portray. The whole point of this Proving Grounds thread is that we have "real" opponents under "real" conditions.
i apologize, but i doubt most of the monsters can guarantee an ambush and accounting for Terrain kind of Washes out in the end.
any cover the giant could hide behind would lower it's own DPR as well.
but yeah, i admit that i kinda messed up on the dragon. the dragon could have won using grapple, fog cloud, shield, or a variety of scenarios. i guess i could follow up later this week with the dragon's brother seeking revenge.
the fire giant was only so one sided because it not only lacks the stealth to ambush, +18 perception beats any stealth modifier the giant possesses, and you could consider my ignoring of cover a favor to the giant. or else's it Rock DPR would be lower because it goes both ways.
difficult terrain screws melee far more than it does archers. halved speed, no 5 foot steps, and inability to charge.
in exchange for not factoring the giant getting cover bonuses, he didn't get to deal with cover penalties.
my calculator can only do so much before it freezes and i have to turn it off.
Its Rock DPR is irrelevant, as that doesn't help it win the fight. Getting to the archer and fighting him in melee is what the giant should be interested in. As such, don't waste a standard action to toss a rock, double-move and take cover. Minimize damage taken and minimize time to get ontop of the archer.
It doesn't need stealth to ambush either, it needs to find a sleeping archer to ambush. The point is not whether it is likely to happen that a fire giant surprises the archer, the point is to portray both sides of the coin.
Another way to look at these fights: if I was playing the fire giant, how would I go about beating this random archer encounter? If you approach the battles like that, then you start putting your own character through her paces properly - and that gives her a chance to grow. My criticisms may come across as negative, but I'm trying to be constructive; the point of this thread (to my understanding) is making the characters even better.
Its Rock DPR is irrelevant, as that doesn't help it win the fight. Getting to the archer and fighting him in melee is what the giant should be interested in. As such, don't waste a standard action to toss a rock, double-move and take cover. Minimize damage taken and minimize time to get ontop of the archer.
It doesn't need stealth to ambush either, it needs to find a sleeping archer to ambush. The point is not whether it is likely to happen that a fire giant surprises the archer, the point is to portray both sides of the coin.
Another way to look at these fights: if I was playing the fire giant, how would I go about beating this random archer encounter? If you approach the battles like that, then you start putting your own character through her paces properly - and that gives her a chance to grow. My criticisms may come across as negative, but I'm trying to be constructive; the point of this thread (to my understanding) is making the characters even better.
i guess so.
Bleeding Rain is surprised by the unusually quiet Fire giant when she sleeps after she ate his brother
Fire Giant does power attacking Coup De Grace for 65 Damage
Bleeding Rain fails DC 75 fort save and dies
Dragon pre casts shield in surprise round and flies into range and bites and grapples the huntress, automatically succeeding on the grapple 55% of the time for 17 damage on an attack that has an 85% chance of connecting
Bleeding rain cannot draw an arrow to stab with without provoking
Dragon bites, hitting with 95% accuracy and dealing 17 more damage
Bleeding Rain stabs with arrow twice for 4.5 damage apiece after DR at +11/6, 5% and 5% of bypassing 31 AC. dragon takes no relevant damage.
Dragon bites to maintain grapple, dealing 17 more, damage with 95% accuracy, claws come at 90% accuracy for 11.5 damage apiece. wings for 6.5 damage apiece at 65% accuracy and tail at 65% accuracy for 14.5
Bleeding Rain Has 3 HP left
Dragon power attack bites the huntress for 25 damage, bleeding rain dies, dragon gets a tasty huntress as a snack
Movanic Deva
Angel Partial Charges Huntress at 75% chance of hitting for 26.5
Bleeding Rain 5 foot steps back and full attack at +18/18/18/13 Versus AC 31 for 23.5 per hit, applying the DR10 to the total instead of the individual arrows. 40% chance of hitting on her first 3 and 15% on her last. lets say 1 hit for 13.5 after DR
Angel 5 foot steps at full attack, +18/13/8 65/40/15% 2 hits for 26.5
Bleeding Rain withdraws, Angel Charges.
Huntress dead. plenty of suffering in the abyss for Bleeding Rain.
The dragon doesn't have a grab on his natural attacks. He could fly in (depending on range) and just make a grapple attempt (provoking if bleeding rain has any melee weapons (gauntlet?). Then he could try to pin and then subsequently maintain the grapple doing 1 natural weapon of damage per turn. He definitely cannot full-attack while grappling.
If he was going to do that, it would be better for him to precast true-strike in the surprise round, move in and grapple(or disarm, and having nothing in his claws would let him take the bow out of your hands instead of leaving on the ground). Then grapple, pin, and maintain for damage until you die.
Drawing arrows does not provoke. Not sure why you think it does? I'm also guessing you have no escape artist. This is the point where normally you would hope the rest of your party can get their act together enough to scare the dragon into dropping you to deal with some other bigger threat (like a melee fighter/ranger/barb/pally).
If you were solo, it would take quite some time for the dragon to whittle you down, which is why PCs work in groups, not solo.
Also, I don't think you can use power attack during a CdG.
The dragon doesn't have a grab on his natural attacks. He could fly in (depending on range) and just make a grapple attempt (provoking if bleeding rain has any melee weapons (gauntlet?). Then he could try to pin and then subsequently maintain the grapple doing 1 natural weapon of damage per turn. He definitely cannot full-attack while grappling.
If he was going to do that, it would be better for him to precast true-strike in the surprise round, move in and grapple(or disarm, and having nothing in his claws would let him take the bow out of your hands instead of leaving on the ground). Then grapple, pin, and maintain for damage until you die.
Drawing arrows does not provoke. Not sure why you think it does? I'm also guessing you have no escape artist. This is the point where normally you would hope the rest of your party can get their act together enough to scare the dragon into dropping you to deal with some other bigger threat (like a melee fighter/ranger/barb/pally).
If you were solo, it would take quite some time for the dragon to whittle you down, which is why PCs work in groups, not solo.
Also, I don't think you can use power attack during a CdG.
with weekly william. if your character would normally power attack, having a default precalculated attack using it. then you get your power attack bonuses in the CdG.
but only if your default melee option (used 75% or more since you took power attack) involved using it.
the reasons why, equate to muscle memory, habit, and the fact that if you regularly exert such force on the majority of your blows, your finishers would involve similar levels of excessive force.
i don't know whether or not it violates the rules
but most giants with power attack are assumed to use it.
but solo, i would be dead, it would just take a long time and i couldn't effectively harm the reptile, plus a CMB of 15 will never break free, plus escape artist wasn't worth it because it eats limited skill points for a mere +1 bonus. plus. archery consumes a lot of feats. and she didn't have many to play with.
Here is a Token Party for our Monks and Rangers. I don't think they are too optimized, but let me know if you disagree... IMO, the only "cheesy" trick I used was giving the Wizard a mithral buckler, and that was because I didn't know how to spend it's remaining cash.
Male Dwarf Cleric 10
LN Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +16
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 25, touch 12, flat-footed 24 (+8 armor, +4 shield, +1 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 78 (10d8+30)
Fort +13, Ref +7, Will +16; +1 trait bonus vs. spells, spell-like abilities, and poison, +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities aura of protection (10 rounds/day), defensive training; Resist acid 10, resistant touch (9/day)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +8/+3 (1d4+4/x2) and
. . +1 Cold Iron Heavy mace +13/+8 (1d8+5/x2) and
. . +2 Silversheen Heavy mace +14/+9 (1d8+6/x2)
Special Attacks hatred
Spell-Like Abilities Acid Dart (9/day), Resistant Touch (9/day)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 10):
5 (3/day) Wall of Stone (DC 21), Breath of Life (DC 21), Air Walk, Communal (x2)
4 (4/day) Blessing of Fervor (x2) (DC 20), Spell Immunity, Freedom of Movement (x2)
3 (4/day) Protection from Energy, Invisibility Purge, Dispel Magic (x2), Stone Shape
2 (6/day) Restoration, Lesser (x2), Silence (DC 18), Soften Earth and Stone, Grace (x3)
1 (6/day) Liberating Command (x2), Shield of Faith (x2), Protection from Evil (x2), Sanctuary (DC 17)
0 (at will) Stabilize, Read Magic, Create Water, Detect Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 22, Cha 8
Base Atk +7; CMB +13; CMD 26 (26 vs. Bull Rush, 26 vs. Trip)
Feats Combat Casting, Defensive Combat Training, Furious Focus, Improved Initiative, Power Attack -2/+4
Traits Glory of Old, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +1 (-3 jump), Appraise +0 (+2 to determine the price of nonmagic items with precious metals or gemstones), Knowledge (religion) +13, Perception +16 (+18 to notice unusual stonework, such as traps and hidden doors in stone walls or floors), Sense Motive +19
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ aura, cleric channel positive energy 5d6 (2/day) (dc 14), domains (earth, protection), greed, hardy, slow and steady, spontaneous casting, stability, stonecunning +2
Combat Gear Wand of cure light wounds, Wand of Restoration, Lesser; Other Gear +2 Breastplate, +2 Heavy steel shield, +1 Cold Iron Heavy mace, +2 Silversheen Heavy mace, Amulet of natural armor +1, Belt of physical might (Str & Con +2), Feather step slippers, Headband of inspired wisdom +4, Ioun stone (pale green prism (cracked, Attack), Ring of protection +1, Ring of sustenance, 394 GP
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Special Abilities
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Acid Dart (1d6+5) (9/day) (Sp) 30' Ranged touch attack deals 1d6+5 Acid damage.
Aura (Ex) The Cleric has an aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Aura of Protection (10 rounds/day) (Su) 30'r aura grants Energy Resistance 5 and a +1 deflection bonus to AC.
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 5d6 (2/day) (DC 14) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Cleric Domain (Earth) Granted Powers: You have mastery over earth, metal, and stone, can fire darts of acid, and command earth creatures.
Cleric Domain (Protection) Granted Powers: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Damage Resistance, Acid (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Acid attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Glory of Old You receive a +1 trait bonus on saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and poison.
Greed +2 to Appraise checks to determine the price of nonmagical goods that contain precious metals or gemstones.
Hardy +2 Gain a racial bonus to saves vs Poison, Spells and Spell-Like effects.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Resistant Touch (9/day) (Sp) May donate Protection Domain's Resistance bonus to ally by touch for 1 minute.
Ring of sustenance Immune to hunger and thirst, and only sleep two hours a night.
Slow and Steady Your base speed is never modified by encumbrance.
Spontaneous Casting The Cleric can convert stored spells into Cure or Inflict spells.
Stability +4 Gain bonus to CMD vs bull rush/trip while standing on ground.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Wand of Restoration, Lesser Add this item to create a wand of a chosen spell.
Male Elf (Snowcaster) Wizard 10
N Medium Humanoid (elf)
Init +11; Senses low-light vision; Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 24, touch 17, flat-footed 19 (+4 armor, +2 shield, +5 Dex, +1 natural, +2 deflection)
hp 57 (10d6+20)
Fort +11, Ref +12, Will +12; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune magic sleep; Resist elven immunities
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 10):
5 (3/day) Overland Flight, Summon Monster V (x2), Cloudkill (DC 23)
4 (5/day) Black Tentacles, Stone Shape, Dimension Door (x2), Summon Monster IV (x2)
3 (5/day) Heroism (x2), Haste (x2), Fireball (x2) (DC 21)
2 (6/day) Invisibility (x2), Alter Self, Blur (x2), Glitterdust (x2)
1 (6/day) Silent Image (x2) (DC 19), Mage Armor (x2), Enlarge Person (x2) (DC 19), Enlarge Person (DC 19)
0 (at will) Read Magic, Detect Magic, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation (DC 18)
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Statistics
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Str 7, Dex 20, Con 13, Int 26, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +3; CMD 25
Feats Combat Casting, Defensive Combat Training, Fast Study, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Opposition Research, Scribe Scroll, Spell Penetration
Traits Forlorn, Reactionary
Skills Appraise +11, Fly +18, Knowledge (arcana) +21, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +21, Knowledge (local) +21, Knowledge (nature) +21, Knowledge (planes) +21, Knowledge (religion) +21, Perception +17, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +21 (+23 to determine the properties of a magic item), Use Magic Device +9; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Aklo, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan
SQ +3 to appraise checks, arcane bonds (arcane familiar, raven), change shape (10 rounds/day), deliver touch spells through familiar, elven magic, empathic link with familiar, opposition schools (necromancy), physical enhancement +3 (constitution), share spells with familiar, speak with animals, speak with familiar, specialized schools (transmutation), telekinetic fist (11/day)
Other Gear +1 Mithral Buckler, Amulet of natural armor +1, Belt of incredible dexterity +4, Cloak of resistance +3, Feather step slippers, Headband of vast intelligence +4 (Fly, Use Magic D, Ioun stone (pale green prism (cracked, saves), Ring of protection +2, Ring of sustenance, 495 GP
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Special Abilities
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+3 to Appraise checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Change Shape (10 rounds/day) (Sp) Use Beast Shape II or Elemental Body I as a Spell-Like ability.
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Fast Study Normally, a wizard spends 1 hour preparing all of his spells for the day, or proportionately less if he only prepares some spells, with a minimum of 15 minutes of preparation. Thanks to mental discipline and clever mnemonics, you can prepare all of y
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Necromancy You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Necromancy school.
Physical Enhancement +3 (Constitution) (Su) +1 bonus to physical ability, +1 per 5 levels (change per day).
Ring of sustenance Immune to hunger and thirst, and only sleep two hours a night.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Speak with Animals (Ex) Your familiar can communicate with animals similar to itself.
Speak With Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Telekinetic Fist (11/day) (Sp) 30' ranged touch attack, 1d4+5
Transmutation Transmuters use magic to change the world around them.
Halfling Bard 10
CN Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +9; Senses Perception +18
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 17, flat-footed 18 (+6 armor, +5 Dex, +1 size, +1 deflection)
hp 78 (10d8+30)
Fort +12, Ref +16, Will +11; +2 vs. fear, +4 vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependant effects
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Silversheen Cestus +14/+9 (1d3+6/19-20/x2)
Ranged +2 Composite shortbow (Str +2) +16/+11 (1d4+7/19-20/x3)
Special Attacks bardic performance (move action) (26 rounds/day), bardic performance: countersong, bardic performance: dirge of doom, bardic performance: distraction, bardic performance: fascinate (4 targets) (dc 19), bardic performance: inspire competence +3, bardic performance: inspire courage +2, bardic performance: inspire greatness (1 allies), bardic performance: suggestion (dc 19)
Bard Spells Known (CL 10):
4 (2/day) Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement
3 (4/day) Good Hope, Haste, Confusion (DC 17), Feather Step, Mass
2 (5/day) Tongues, Mirror Image, Silence (DC 16), Invisibility, Glitterdust
1 (6/day) Saving Finale (DC 15), Silent Image (DC 15), Restful Sleep (DC 15), Grease (DC 15), Comprehend Languages
0 (at will) Read Magic, Ghost Sound (DC 14), Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation (DC 14)
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18
Base Atk +7; CMB +8; CMD 27
Feats Arcane Strike, Defensive Combat Training, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills Bluff +17, Climb +6, Diplomacy +17, Disguise +17, Fly +7, Handle Animal +17, Intimidate +17, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (history) +9, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Knowledge (religion) +9, Perception +18, Perform (act) +17, Perform (dance) +8, Perform (oratory) +17, Perform (percussion instruments) +17, Sense Motive +17, Sleight of Hand +9, Stealth +22, Use Magic Device +17; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ bardic knowledge, fearless, jack of all trades: trained skills, lore master (1/day), versatile performance abilities (acting, oratory, percussion instruments), well versed
Other Gear +2 Mithral Chain shirt, +1 Silversheen Cestus, +2 Composite shortbow (Str +2), Belt of physical perfection +2, Bracers of falcon's aim, Cloak of resistance +3, Feather step slippers, Gloves of arcane striking, Headband of alluring charisma +2, Ring of protection +1, Ring of sustenance, 1120 GP
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Bardic Knowledge +5 (Ex) Add +5 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (move action) (26 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Dirge of Doom (Su) Enemies within 30' are shaken.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (4 targets) (DC 19) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +3 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Greatness (1 allies) (Su) Grants allies 2 bonus hit dice, +2 to attacks and +1 to fort saves.
Bardic Performance: Suggestion (DC 19) (Sp) Make a Suggestion to one Fascinated creature.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Gloves of arcane striking Arcane strike bonus is added to aid another, and deals splash dam around hit foe.
Jack of All Trades: Trained skills (Ex) You may use all skills untrained.
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) Take 10 on knowledge checks, and 1/day take 20 as a standard action.
Ring of sustenance Immune to hunger and thirst, and only sleep two hours a night.
Versatile Performance (Acting) +17 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Act skill for Bluff or Disguise checks
Versatile Performance (Oratory) +17 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks
Versatile Performance (Percussion Instruments) +17 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Percussion Instruments skill for Handle Animal or Intimidate checks
Well Versed (Ex) +4 save vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.
Now, these guys can fulfill a lot of roles in place of our characters, but since not every party has these classes/roles, let's assume they're just in case they're absolutely necessary.
Cleric DPR against AC 24 (Unbuffed): 9.82
Bard DPR against AC 24 (Unbuffed): 12.97
Cleric DPR against AC 24 (With Inspire Courage): 18.7
Bard DPR against AC 24 (With Inspire Courage): 14.44
I suppose it's fair to assume they deal about 22.7 damage per round to a single enemy with AC 24. Or 33.14 if one of them takes a round to cast a random buff.
Now, these shouldn't be used on our encounter simulations, but they're a easy way to see how you having a decent party would change the way things happen.
I hope so. I think the paladin needs comparison to the monk because both have good defences.
Tarantula why would you be able to use power attack in a CDG attempt?
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Here is a Token Party for our Monks and Rangers. I don't think they are too optimized, but let me know if you disagree... IMO, the only "cheesy" trick I used was giving the Wizard a mithral buckler, and that was because I didn't know how to spend it's remaining cash.
** spoiler omitted **...
Nice add Lemmy.
EDIT: I still dream of a day when we can sit down and make a synergy type party. I think people always say "The casters buff the martial or they suck" forgetting "The Martials soak damage for the casters, or they suck" :)
Color me curious - is a level 10 paladin supposed to have level 3 spells?
Tarantula why would you be able to use power attack in a CDG attempt?
I was saying you could not use power attack in a CdG.
Since Paladins were mentioned in the other (now closed) thread, I built a Paladin.
Is he welcome here?
Yes they are allowed.
I was about to ask why power attack would not be availible, but I think the logic would be that you can't apply a penalty to the attack roll.
What if someone has furious focus which negates the penalty for the first attack in a round anyway with a two-handed weapon<---not asked to derail, just food for thought..
In about 24 hours I will post the next monster. I want to give everyone a chance to deal with the first two.
I hope so. I think the paladin needs comparison to the monk because both have good defences.Although most of these have been built for damage rather than defense.
So if a paladin built for damage has way better defences, does this not show something pretty significant?
I was about to ask why power attack would not be availible, but I think the logic would be that you can't apply a penalty to the attack roll.
What if someone has furious focus which negates the penalty for the first attack in a round anyway with a two-handed weapon<---not asked to derail, just food for thought..
In about 24 hours I will post the next monster. I want to give everyone a chance to deal with the first two.
"You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls."
It does count as a hit/damage though. So maybe you can PA with a CdG and it auto hits. I'm thinking of an executioner at the chopping block. Because you are spending the full-round against a helpless person, you won't miss, even if your attack bonus was -19.
I'm changing my mind. Yes, you can PA on a CdG. It meets the requirements (you state you are taking a penalty to attack rolls for bonus to melee damage), you auto hit, no roll needed, then roll critical damage(getting the PA bonus).
Wraith: Do you mind if I throw in a druid animal companion just to see how it compares with the full classes? Or does that not belong here.
I was about to ask why power attack would not be availible, but I think the logic would be that you can't apply a penalty to the attack roll.
What if someone has furious focus which negates the penalty for the first attack in a round anyway with a two-handed weapon<---not asked to derail, just food for thought..
In about 24 hours I will post the next monster. I want to give everyone a chance to deal with the first two.
"You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls."
It does count as a hit/damage though. So maybe you can PA with a CdG and it auto hits. I'm thinking of an executioner at the chopping block. Because you are spending the full-round against a helpless person, you won't miss, even if your attack bonus was -19.
I'm changing my mind. Yes, you can PA on a CdG. It meets the requirements (you state you are taking a penalty to attack rolls for bonus to melee damage), you auto hit, no roll needed, then roll critical damage(getting the PA bonus).
Wraith: Do you mind if I throw in a druid animal companion just to see how it compares with the full classes? Or does that not belong here.
You can do it, and I can tell you now, if they are buffed with animal growth, even before strong jaw they have can have good DPR. If the druid gives them armor they get more dangerous.
The question is how long is the duration on those two spells, but yeah you can try it. Their saves might not be too good though.
Those 2 spells are minutes/level, which is unfortunate. On the other hand, the druid can have up to 3 animal growths per day at level 10. Which should cover you an equal number of combats.
I'll work on the animal companion now. I want to do some more comparisons between which animal to choose.
The big cats are among the best. There is dinosaur(bigger one) with 3 or more attacks also, assuming you just want DPR.
I'm also looking at some more weird (and optimized) paths for the animal companion involving the animal(feather) domain and boon companion (to offset the penalty for the domain). This gives me beastshape 3, which lets me use it to buff the companion instead of animal growth. As a benefit, I can pick the companion with the best attributes (strength usually) and then pick the best huge animal form to turn it into. Sadly, using beast shape 3 makes it unable to then be grown, as they can't stack (both change size). (Well, technically I could cast it, it would just not have any effect until the BS3 wore off).
I had meant to ask why you could not use it but that's what I get for being sleepy.
Sorry, I forget, were we doing 20pt buy or elite array on this one?