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The purpose of this thread is to see if the monk can hold up across several combats to include boss fights against a variety of monsters. This will also show how well it compares to other classes.
The list of combatants and monster. Feel free to use monsters from other books, also.
When simulating the monsters use tactics. Don't make another poster have to call you out for dumbing a monster down.
Having monster be in an area that benefits it is a good way to run the combats.
That is how I will do my simulations anyway..
You can swap it out Ciretose. I had things I missed with my barbarian also. So if you would buy things like potions of fly, and so one then get them.
Those builds in the other thread were supposed to be for a real game, not just a number crunching exercise. That is why I wanted full builds.
The build is not locked in until you repost it over here.
I am going to use 10th level.
Kimera, Paizo does not have signatures for their boards.
Oh and we should use the wizard/cleric/druid when determining prices for magic items, and what is available, since the the summoner and magus probably make items that did not exist now available.
This assumes the spell in question is on several different caster list.
Can we get an example of how things are going to work in this proving ground? Because it is one thing to present a strong combatant, another entirely to find that (s)he's pitted against situations that they cannot handle. Do we assume a base party constellation of 3 other characters that are part of the encounters, or are the characters expected to fend for themselves in entirety? Any other details? Perhaps a sample encounter?
Another question is, what are characters rated on? Mikiko, for example, would perhaps deal less damage than Thrundrar the fighter, but on the other hand she'd maybe only sustain 10% of the damage that the fighter sustained.
Finally, what about multi-classing, how much non-monk is legal before the character is not considered a monk anymore? Monk 8 / ninja 2 fighting unarmed is, to me, pretty much a monk - but others will say no. Then again, I've seen people claim that their Fighter 8 / MoMS 2 is a monk; and I'm like, dude, get real.
Can I update my 10th level TWF Rangers? They were built with 9th level WBL by mistake... -.-'
Surprisingly... They still met the AC/DPR criteria.
Oh, if I'm allowed to change them, where should I post the builds, here or in the other thread?
Dotting.
Lorekeeper those are good questions:
Here is basically how it works.
One of use chooses a character and use math and tactics to determine if how long the monster will survive vs how long the PC combatant will survive.
Another factor is whether or not the PC combatant is a big enough threat to keep the monster from going after someone else instead.
The last time we did this we ran the fights with and without haste. The only reason that was accepted was because I presented a caster I had made a long time ago, to prove it was not Schroeder's wizard, so if you can suggest another common cleric spell and show that it is not something you are just adding then I guess that should count also.
In a normal day you are assumed to take on four encounters of APL=CR, so the amount of potions/etc you have matters. To represent this we can have the fight include limited resources, and have you fight without the resource available.
There may be a day where you have to deal with having your resources whittled down before a boss fight. For the sake ease of this we can assume you always start with full hit points.
Being able to take less damage is a good thing, but you must still present a credible threat.
Having an AC of 45, but only doing 10 points of damage per round won't do you an favors.<---That is an exaggeration, but you get my point.
The potential to make saves is also a factor.
The other thread was for straight monks so only straight monks her.
One of the subjects here has a qinggong monk so I might bring in an invurnable rager, but for the most part it should be core monks vs other core classes with no multiclassing on either side.
Here is an example of a fight and how it plays out.
Here is another fight. If you look two post up you see the monsters presented.
Now I thought that monster's had combat reflexes, but they don't so I won't be eating that AoO I spoke about.
Can I update my 10th level TWF Rangers? They were built with 9th level WBL by mistake... -.-'
Surprisingly... They still met the AC/DPR criteria.
Oh, if I'm allowed to change them, where should I post the builds, here or in the other thread?
You can change them. You can post them in either location. I will make a post with links to all the builds anyway if someone else does not do it first.
hmmm... interesting, but in that case you need to start going deeper into what "draws aggro" from a monster. In the dragon example link, Grokko is chosen as Grokko deals the most damage. This raises several issues:
1. Why should a dragon chose the one that hits it the hardest? As opposed to, say, the one that is stealing its hoard, or breaking its eggs? I'm willing to argue that a character with good wisdom and sense motive has the insight to what will make the dragon upset and draw its ire.
2. A dragon might be wily and fight the one that hits the hardest might make sense in some cases, but odds are that only 1 of the 3 candidates in the fight actually hit the dragon, about a 66% chance that the character in question is a monk (while the other two just plain miss). For that matter, perhaps the dragon is prideful and tries to hunt the one it failed to hurt on the first attempt.
3. Likewise, why is a cunning dragon's combat tactic against the one that can hurt it most with a greatsword to go and attack, when it can readily see that Grokko won't be able to withstand more than 3 or 4 breath attacks? Then, if the dragon does decide to be all martial, why doesn't he use his amazing combat abilities to disarm Grokko (and add a valuable magical greatsword to its hoard).
4. Perhaps I should add that the aggro-meter would probably also be affected by the special case of a scenario: if the idea is not to necessarily kill the dragon, but recover the world-saving macguffin from its hoard.
hmmm... interesting, but in that case you need to start going deeper into what "draws aggro" from a monster. In the dragon example link, Grokko is chosen as Grokko deals the most damage. This raises several issues:
1. Why should a dragon chose the one that hits it the hardest? As opposed to, say, the one that is stealing its hoard, or breaking its eggs? I'm willing to argue that a character with good wisdom and sense motive has the insight to what will make the dragon upset and draw its ire.
While the dragon may have other priorities, generally none of these come before "staying alive" because dead dragons cannot fulfil other priorities. Hence if the dragon cannot avoid the person doing the most damage to fulfil those priorities, it will instead focus on them to get them out of the way.
2. A dragon might be wily and fight the one that hits the hardest might make sense in some cases, but odds are that only 1 of the 3 candidates in the fight actually hit the dragon, about a 66% chance that the character in question is a monk (while the other two just plain miss). For that matter, perhaps the dragon is prideful and tries to hunt the one it failed to hurt on the first attempt.
That depends on what damage the monk does, and what options are available to it.
3. Likewise, why is a cunning dragon's combat tactic against the one that can hurt it most with a greatsword to go and attack, when it can readily see that Grokko won't be able to withstand more than 3 or 4 breath attacks? Then, if the dragon does decide to be all martial, why doesn't he use his amazing combat abilities to disarm Grokko (and add a valuable magical greatsword to its hoard).
Why not stay airborne and strafe the ground with his breath attack, then land and hint down/kill the ones that survived?
I would assume that if in melee, the dragon has been forced down, and that means it HAS to fight, in which case it will kill the biggest threat as fast as it can.
4. Perhaps I should add that the aggro-meter would probably also be affected by the special case of a scenario: if the idea is not to necessarily kill the dragon, but recover the world-saving macguffin from its hoard.
Because if you DON'T kill the dragon it will come after you, and it will be annoyed (even good aligned dragons do not appreciate thieves). So unless your plan is to steal something and lure the dragon into a trap...
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I will go first...Two major changes. First, since I'm not restricting myself to core I am going to take the human ability that gives me an extra +2 ability score in exchange for a feat and a skill point. 2nd, I swapped the monk belt for other stuff.
I also realized I didn't give myself the favored class hitpoints, so that helps a little.
Monk 10
LN Medium Dwarf
Init +4; Senses Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 22 , touch 20, flat-footed 21 (+2 armor, + 2 Dex, +2 Monk AC, +4 Wis, +1 deflection, +1 dodge) Barkskin +4 with 1 ki 100 minutes
hp 78.5 (9d8+10+10+10+10 Con, Toughness, Favored)
Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +11 (+2 vs. enchantment; +2 spells)
Defensive Abilities: Improved Evasion, Deflect Arrows
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Offense
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Speed 60 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +16/+11 (2d6+8/20/x2)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows (+17/+17/+12/+12) w/ki (+17/+17/+17/+12/+12) w/ki and Haste (+18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+13)
Power attack -3 attack +6 damage on all attacks.
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Statistics
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Str 22 (15+2 (human) +1 4th), Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 18 (15+1 8th +2 Headband), Cha 8
Base Atk +7; CMB +16; CMD +23
Feats (In Order): 1 Toughness; 1 Dodge; 2 Deflect Arrows; 3 Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike); 5 Dragon Style; 6 Mobility; 7 Spring Attack; 9: Dragon Ferocity, 10 Improved Critical (unarmed)
Traits: Wisdom in the Flesh (stealth), Reactionary
Skills: (4 Per level) Perception +17(10+3+3), Stealth (10+3+3) +17, Sense Motive (10+3+3) + 17, Acrobatics (10+3+2) +15, Knowledge (Religion) (10+3+0) +13 for Both.
Other Gear Belt of Strength +4: 16,000, Bracers of Armor +1 4,000, Ring of protection +1 2,000gp,; Amulet of Mighty Fists +2 (16k); 8,000 Deliquescent gloves, 4,000 Headband of Wisdom, Boots of speed 12,000. 1 Enlarge Potion (250), 1 Fly Potion (750), 1 Invisibilty potion (300),1 Cat's Grace (300), 1 Darkvision. 1 Endure elements (50), 1 jump (50)
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Special Abilities
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Flurry of Blows: Fight like TWF w/level as BAB +6/+6/+1/+1
Fast Movement: +30ft
Unarmed Strike: 2d6+8
Stunning Fist: Save DC 19
Evasion: No damage on successful reflex save
Ki Pool: 9
Slow Fall swapped for Barkskin +4
High Jump swapped for Ki Arrow
Wholeness of Body: 10 hit points for 2 Ki.
Strategy is going to change from conflict to conflict.
I think we should see how each character fares against 2~3 different encounters in a row (with 10~30 minutes of "rest" time).
This is closer to actual play and helps to avoid Schrodinger anything.
Also, just to make it easier to compare:
Male Half-Orc Ranger 10
LN Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 14, flat-footed 20 (+9 armor, +3 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 79 (10d10+20)
Fort +13 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +14, Will +10
Defensive Abilities evasion
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee +2 Silversheen Cestus +17/+12 (1d4+8/17-20/x2) and
. . +2 Silversheen Cestus +17/+12 (1d4+8/17-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +16/+11 (1d3+6/x2)
Ranged +1 Composite longbow (Str +6) +14/+9 (1d8+7/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (evil outsiders +2, monstrous humanoids +2, undead +6)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 9):
2 (2/day) Barkskin (x2)
1 (3/day) Longstrider, Resist Energy (x2)
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Statistics
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Str 22, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +10; CMB +16; CMD 30
Feats Double Slice, Endurance, Furious Focus, Improved Critical (Cestus), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack -3/+6, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Cestus)
Traits Indomitable Faith, Magical Knack (Ranger)
Skills Acrobatics +13 (+9 jump), Bluff -1 (+1 vs. monstrous humanoids, +1 vs. evil outsiders, +5 vs. undead), Climb +12, Intimidate +14, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13 (+15 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. evil outsiders, +19 vs. undead), Knowledge (nature) +13 (+15 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. evil outsiders, +19 vs. undead), Perception +15 (+17 vs. monstrous humanoids, +17 vs. evil outsiders, +21 vs. undead, +19 while in forest terrain, +17 while in urban terrain), Sense Motive +2 (+4 vs. monstrous humanoids, +4 vs. evil outsiders, +8 vs. undead), Stealth +18 (+22 while in forest terrain, +20 while in urban terrain), Survival +13 (+15 to avoid becoming lost, +15 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. evil outsiders, +19 vs. undead, +17 while in forest terrain, +15 while in urban terrain, +18 to track), Swim +12 (+16 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion); Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ combat styles (two-weapon combat), favored terrains (forest +4, urban +2), hunter's bonds (companions), swift tracker, track, wild empathy, woodland stride
Combat Gear Potion of enlarge person (x2), Potion of Fly (x2), Wand of cure light wounds; Other Gear +3 Breastplate, +1 Composite longbow (Str +6), +2 Silversheen Cestus, +2 Silversheen Cestus, Belt of physical might (Str & Dex +2), Cloak of resistance +3, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, Ioun stone (clear spindle), Ring of protection +1, Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs), Masterwork tool (Climb), Masterwork tool (Stealth), Masterwork tool (Swim), Weapon cord, 139 GP, 9 SP
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Special Abilities
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Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders).
Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoids +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoids).
Favored Enemy (Undead +6) (Ex) +6 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Terrain (Forest +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Forest).
Favored Terrain (Urban +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Urban).
Hunting Companions (2 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ioun stone (clear spindle) Sustains bearer without food or water.
Magical Knack (Ranger) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Swift Tracker (Ex) Tracking penalties when moving at normal speed or faster are reduced.
Track +5 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs) A small magical device patterned off ancient relics of the Azlanti, a wayfinder is typically made from silver and bears gold accents. With a command word, you can use a wayfinder to shine (as the light spell). The wayfinder also acts as a nonmagical (magnetic) compass, granting you a +2 circumstance bonus on Survival checks to avoid becoming lost. All wayfinders include a small indentation designed to hold a single ioun stone.
Weapon cord Attached weapon can be recovered as a swift action.
Wild Empathy +9 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Woodland Stride (Ex) Move through undergrowth at normal speed.
DPR against AC 24: 41.16
...With Power Attack: 49.67
.....Against Main Favored Enemy (Undead): 103,11
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
XP 6400
Male Half-Orc Ranger 10
LN Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +18
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 14, flat-footed 23 (+8 armor, +4 shield, +3 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 89 (10d10+30)
Fort +14 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +14, Will +10
Defensive Abilities evasion
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +16/+11 (1d4+6/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +20/+15 (1d3+9/19-20/x2)
Ranged +1 Composite longbow (Str +6) +15/+10 (1d8+7/19-20/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (evil outsiders +2, monstrous humanoids +2, undead +6)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 9):
2 (2/day) Barkskin (x2)
1 (3/day) Longstrider, Resist Energy, Jump
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Statistics
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Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +10; CMB +16 (+18 Grappling); CMD 30
Feats Double Slice, Endurance, Furious Focus, Improved Critical (Unarmed strike), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack -3/+6, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike)
Traits Indomitable Faith, Magical Knack (Ranger)
Skills Acrobatics +13, Bluff -1 (+1 vs. monstrous humanoids, +1 vs. evil outsiders, +5 vs. undead), Climb +12, Intimidate +14, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13 (+15 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. evil outsiders, +19 vs. undead), Knowledge (nature) +13 (+15 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. evil outsiders, +19 vs. undead), Perception +18 (+20 vs. monstrous humanoids, +20 vs. evil outsiders, +24 vs. undead, +22 while in forest terrain, +20 while in urban terrain), Sense Motive +2 (+4 vs. monstrous humanoids, +4 vs. evil outsiders, +8 vs. undead), Stealth +18 (+22 while in forest terrain, +20 while in urban terrain), Survival +13 (+15 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. evil outsiders, +19 vs. undead, +17 while in forest terrain, +15 while in urban terrain, +18 to track), Swim +12 (+16 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion); Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ brawling, combat styles (two-weapon combat), favored terrains (forest +4, urban +2), hunter's bonds (companions), swift tracker, track, wild empathy, woodland stride
Combat Gear Potion of Enlarge Person (x2), Potion of Fly (x2), Wand of Cure Light Wounds; Other Gear +2 Brawling Mithral Breastplate, +2 Heavy wooden shield, +1 Composite longbow (Str +6), Amulet of mighty fists +1, Belt of physical perfection +2, Bracers of falcon's aim, Cloak of resistance +3, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, Ring of protection +1, Masterwork tool (Climb), Masterwork tool (Stealth), Masterwork tool (Swim), Weapon cord, 142 GP, 9 SP
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Special Abilities
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Brawling Unarmed strikes count as magic for bypassing DR.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Evil Outsiders).
Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoids +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoids).
Favored Enemy (Undead +6) (Ex) +6 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Terrain (Forest +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Forest).
Favored Terrain (Urban +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Urban).
Hunting Companions (2 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Magical Knack (Ranger) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Swift Tracker (Ex) Tracking penalties when moving at normal speed or faster are reduced.
Track +5 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Weapon cord Attached weapon can be recovered as a swift action.
Wild Empathy +9 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Woodland Stride (Ex) Move through undergrowth at normal speed.
DPR against AC 24: 34.5
...With Power Attack: 40.6
.....Against Main Favored Enemy (Undead): 85.05
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Half-Elf Monk (Master of Many Styles) 2 Ranger 8
LN Medium Humanoid (elf, human)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 25, touch 14, flat-footed 22 (+8 armor, +3 shield, +3 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 87 (8d10+2d8+30)
Fort +15 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +15, Will +13; +2 vs. enchantments, +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune magic sleep; Resist elven immunities
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Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +16/+11 (1d4+6/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +19/+14 (1d6+12/x2)
Ranged +1 Composite longbow (Str +6) +14/+9 (1d8+7/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (dragons +2, undead +4)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 7):
2 (2/day) Barkskin (x2)
1 (2/day) Longstrider, Resist Energy
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Statistics
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Str 22, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +9; CMB +17 (+19 Grappling); CMD 29
Feats Double Slice, Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+6 rds, Dragon Style, Endurance, Furious Focus, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack -3/+6, Snake Fang, Snake Style, Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 17), Two-weapon Fighting
Traits Indomitable Faith, Magical Knack (Ranger)
Skills Acrobatics +7, Bluff -2 (+0 vs. dragons, +2 vs. undead), Climb +10, Escape Artist +1, Fly +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Knowledge (nature) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Knowledge (religion) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Perception +17 (+19 vs. dragons, +21 vs. undead, +19 while in forest terrain, +21 while in underground terrain), Ride +1, Sense Motive +17 (+19 vs. dragons, +21 vs. undead), Stealth +16 (+18 while in forest terrain, +20 while in underground terrain), Survival +6 (+8 to avoid becoming lost, +8 vs. dragons, +10 vs. undead, +8 while in forest terrain, +10 while in underground terrain, +10 to track), Swim +10 (+14 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven
SQ brawling, combat styles (two-weapon combat), elf blood, favored terrains (forest +2, underground +4), fuse style (2 styles), hunter's bonds (companions), stunning fist (stun), swift tracker, track, unarmed strike (1d6), wild empathy, woodland stride
Combat Gear Potion of enlarge person, Potion of fly, Wand of cure light wounds; Other Gear +2 Brawling Mithral Breastplate, +1 Heavy steel shield, +1 Composite longbow (Str +6), Amulet of mighty fists +1, Belt of physical perfection +2, Cloak of resistance +3, Feather step slippers, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, Ioun stone (pale green prism (cracked, Attack), Ring of protection +1, Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs), Masterwork tool (Climb), Masterwork tool (Stealth), Masterwork tool (Swim), 630 GP
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Special Abilities
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Brawling Unarmed strikes count as magic for bypassing DR.
Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+6 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Elf Blood You are counted as both elven and human for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Favored Enemy (Dragons +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Dragons).
Favored Enemy (Undead +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Terrain (Forest +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Forest).
Favored Terrain (Underground +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Underground).
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Hunting Companions (2 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Magical Knack (Ranger) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Snake Fang If opponent misses you, make an attack of opportunity as an immediate action
Snake Style Gain +2 on Sense Motive checks, and deal piercing damage with unarmed attacks
Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 17) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Swift Tracker (Ex) Tracking penalties when moving at normal speed or faster are reduced.
Track +4 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs) A small magical device patterned off ancient relics of the Azlanti, a wayfinder is typically made from silver and bears gold accents. With a command word, you can use a wayfinder to shine (as the light spell). The wayfinder also acts as a nonmagical (magnetic) compass, granting you a +2 circumstance bonus on Survival checks to avoid becoming lost. All wayfinders include a small indentation designed to hold a single ioun stone.
Wild Empathy +6 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Woodland Stride (Ex) Move through undergrowth at normal speed.
DPR against AC 24: 39.22
...With Power Attack: 43.75
.....Against Main Favored Enemy (Undead): 75.74 (the reduced FE bonus really hurts)
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I will go first...Two major changes. First, since I'm not restricting myself to core I am going to take the human ability that gives me an extra +2 ability score in exchange for a feat and a skill point. 2nd, I swapped the monk belt for other stuff.
I also realized I didn't give myself the favored class hitpoints, so that helps a little.
** spoiler omitted **...
I forgot the 1d6 from acid, but I'll remember hopefully as we go :)
@ciretose: I assume you're also missing the Dragon Style bonus to damage in your stats, I'd expect 2d6+11+1d6(acid); and an extra +3 on the first hit.
Just EDITed my last post to include my TWFing Ranger builds, so it's we can check their information without moving from thread to thread. I also included their DPR against AC 24.
The MMoS Ranger's numbers ended up quite different from what I expected... And I surely didn't expect the unarmed builds to have AC that high. Shields rock!
IMO, Humans are a bit too easy to build, so I used a Half-Orc for the 1st 2 builds and a Half-Elf for the MoMS variant.
All of them carry a 2 Potions of Fly, 2 Potions of Enlarge Person and 1 wand of CLW... I don't think any of that is considered Schroodinger at this level, since the most expensive of these items cost 750gp, which is pretty cheap for 10th level characters.
@Lemmy: perhaps consider - for the purpose of these simulations - a "guide" archetype ranger. That would allow you to declare a favored enemy 4/day (or 3/day with two levels of MoMS). It'll mean at least the main bad guy in each encounter can be faced with the very best the ranger has to offer.
Just EDITed my last post to include my TWFing Ranger builds, so it's we can check their information without moving from thread to thread. I also included their DPR against AC 24.
The MMoS Ranger's numbers ended up quite different from what I expected... And I surely didn't expect the unarmed builds to have AC that high. Shields rock!
IMO, Humans are a bit too easy to build, so I used a Half-Orc for the 1st 2 builds and a Half-Elf for the MoMS variant.
All of them carry a 2 Potions of Fly, 2 Potions of Enlarge Person and 1 wand of CLW... I don't think any of that is considered Schroodinger at this level, since the most expensive of these items cost 750gp, which is pretty cheap for 10th level characters.
Are you including the animal companion DPR also? They also benefit from favored enemy. :)
Make sure they get at least a +1 amulet of mighty fist so they can overcome DR magic, if nothing else.
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@ciretose: I assume you're also missing the Dragon Style bonus to damage in your stats, I'd expect 2d6+11+1d6(acid); and an extra +3 on the first hit.
Yup, this is what I get for trying to modify rather than start from scratch. I caught a few other things, so...
Take 2.Monk 10
LN Medium Dwarf
Init +4; Senses Perception +18
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Defense
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AC 23 , touch 21, flat-footed 20 (+2 armor, + 2 Dex, +2 Monk AC, +5 Wis, +1 deflection, +1 dodge) Barkskin +4 with 1 ki 100 minutes
hp 78.5 (9d8+10+10+10+10 Con, Toughness, Favored)
Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +13 (+2 vs. enchantment; +2 spells)
Defensive Abilities: Improved Evasion, Deflect Arrows
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Offense
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Speed 60 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +16/+11 (2d6+11/20/x2) +1d6 acid
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows (+17/+17/+12/+12) w/ki (+17/+17/+17/+12/+12) w/ki and Haste (+18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+13)
Power attack -3 attack +6 damage on all attacks.
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Statistics
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Str 22 (15+2 (human) +1 4th), Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 20 (15+1 8th +2 Headband), Cha 8
Base Atk +7; CMB +16; CMD +23
Feats (In Order): 1 Toughness; 1 Dodge; 2 Deflect Arrows; 3 Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike); 5 Dragon Style; 6 Mobility; 7 Spring Attack; 9: Dragon Ferocity, 10 Improved Critical (unarmed)
Traits: Wisdom in the Flesh (stealth), Reactionary
Skills: (4 Per level) Perception +17(10+3+3), Stealth (10+3+3) +17, Sense Motive (10+3+3) + 17, Acrobatics (10+3+2) +15
Other Gear Belt of Strength +4: 16,000, Bracers of Armor +1 4,000, Ring of protection +1 2,000gp,; Amulet of Mighty Fists +2 (16k); 8,000 Deliquescent gloves, 4,000 Headband of Wisdom, Boots of speed 12,000. Cloak of Resistance +1, 1 Enlarge Potion (250), 1 Fly Potion (750), 1 Invisibilty potion (300),1 Cat's Grace (300), 1 Darkvision. 1 Endure elements (50), 1 jump (50)
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Special Abilities
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Flurry of Blows: Fight like TWF w/level as BAB +6/+6/+1/+1
Fast Movement: +30ft
Unarmed Strike: 2d6+11
Stunning Fist: Save DC 20
Evasion: No damage on successful reflex save
Ki Pool: 10
Slow Fall swapped for Barkskin +4
High Jump swapped for Ki Arrow
Wholeness of Body: 10 hit points for 2 Ki.
Ignore difficult terrain when charge, run or withdraw
Enemy Staggers on unarmed crit.
Add 1/2 strength to unarmed.
Let me know if you catch anything else.
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Here's my submission; in its current form - barring unknown developments.
Jakiro is designed to not be as damage focused as my previous submissions. He's still a significant combat presence and has a lot of room for trickery in combat, primarily through the addition of a sipping jacket that he can use an invisibility potion on (thus granting him 30 rounds of invisibility a day activated as a swift action for 1 round of invisibility). In many ways it is superior to a ninja's vanishing trick - I think it should be a required item on any rogue.
Qinggong Monk 10
str 8
dex 24 = 18 + 2 racial + 2 levels + 2 item
con 12
int 10
wis 16 = 14 + 2 item
cha 8
traits - bullied (+1 trait bonus to unarmed attacks for AOOs), mikari rebel (+1 trait bonus to damage for unarmed strikes)
level 1 - weapon finesse (human), dodge (bonus), toughness
level 2 - combat reflexes (bonus)
level 3 - snake style
level 4 -
level 5 - weapon focus (unarmed), barkskin ki power for slow fall
level 6 - deflect arrows (bonus)
level 7 - snake sidewind
level 8 -
level 9 - snake fang
level 10 - improved critical (bonus)
equipment:
57000
dex +2 (4000)
wis +2 (4000)
agile amulet (4000)
ring of protection +1 (2000)
jingasa (5000)
dusty rose prism (5000)
cracked pale green prism (4000)
monk robe (13000)
cloak +2 (4000)
featherstep slippers (2000)
eyes of the eagle (2500)
sipping jacket (5000)
handy haversack (2000)
wayfinder (500)
5000
potion of armor x12 (50 each, 600)
potion of fly x2 (750 each, 1500)
potion of invisibility x2 (300 each 600)
potion of cat's grace x2 (300 each, 600)
potion of bear's endurance x2 (300 each, 600)
potion of silence x2 (300 each, 600)
potion of protection from evil x2 (50 each, 100)
potion of enlarge person x2 (50 each, 100)
potion of cure light wounds x2 (50 each, 100)
potion of bless weapon x2 (50 each, 100)
potion of magic weapon x2 (50 each, 100)
primary skills: acrobatics 25(10) , perception 21(10), sense motive 16(10), stealth 20(10)
secondary skills: climb 7(5), swim 7(5)
HP 83
AC 35 touch 27 flat 27 CMD 34
Fort 10 Ref 16 Will 12
unarmed flurry +17/+17/+12/+12 2d6+8+1d6(acid)
AOO +17 2d6+8+1d6(acid)
non-finessable CMB +13
finessable CMB, like trip and disarm +21
+1 trait bonus to AOO attacks, Stunning Fist DC 18, 8 ki/day, ki strike (magic, cold-iron, silver, lawful), can move over difficult terrain without being impeded
On a normal adventuring day, Jakiro has a potion of invisibility added to his sipping jacket, this gives him 30 rounds that day to go invisible for 1 round as a swift action. Juro may use a different potion if he knows he'll face a particular foe where it will be important to have a different effect handy, for example "bless weapon" if he'll face DR/good. The use of invisibility combines well with his high stealth, allowing him to conceal himself even in broad daylight and prepare for whatever challenge faces him. His insight in battle is considerable, allowing him to take tactical advantage by manipulating his enemies - he can sense the motivations, the things that drive an enemy, and is able to capitalize on this knowledge. An example: he may apply a potion of silence on an object he's carrying if he knows it'll disrupt an enemy spell caster that he'll be facing.
Jakiro knows he has excellent defenses and is not afraid to provoke attacks of opportunity by using trip or disarm attempts without having the Improved feats - this is calculated step that allows him to capitalize with Snake Fang attacks should the AOO against him fail - in combat he may spend his lower iterative attacks to do disarm or trip attempts to provoke an AOO to respond with a Snake Fang AOO of his own (which is at a higher attack bonus than the lower flurry iteratives). If an enemy is particularly difficult to hit, Jakiro may use his sipping jacket to momentarily go invisible to attack from invisibility, granting him a +2 bonus to his attack and attacking his foe's flat AC - such attacks are usually Stunning Fist attacks, as Jakiro hopes to disable his foes (whether by disarming, tripping or stuns).
Jakiro can generally rely on his AC without extra modifiers, but if a foe proves to be a particularly potent combatant, he'll use his ki dodge ability to raise his AC to 39 when facing that enemy's attacks.
unarmed flurry 2 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 + 2 * 0.45 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 46.81
with ki attack 3 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 + 2 * 0.45 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 61.05
AOO 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 14.25
Typical Snake Fang DPR 2 * 0.8 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 + 0.95 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 36.32
If Jakiro finds himself in a position where no holds are barred, do-or-die, he'll make use of his potion of cat's grace (), bear's endurance (), protection from evil (), magic weapon (), and if necessary, fly.
unarmed flurry 2 * 0.8 * 1.1 * 20.5 + 2 * 0.55 * 1.1 * 20.5 = 60.89
with ki attack 3 * 0.8 * 1.1 * 20.5 + 2 * 0.55 * 1.1 * 20.5 = 78.93
AOO 0.8 * 1.1 * 20.5 = 18.04
Typical Snake Fang DPR 2 * 0.85 * 0.8 * 1.1 * 20.5 + 0.95 * 0.8 * 1.1 * 20.5 = 47.81
unarmed flurry 2 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 + 2 * 0.45 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 46.81
with ki attack 3 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 + 2 * 0.45 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 61.05
AOO 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 14.25
Typical Snake Fang DPR 2 * 0.8 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 + 0.95 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 18.5 = 36.32
@Lemmy: perhaps consider - for the purpose of these simulations - a "guide" archetype ranger. That would allow you to declare a favored enemy 4/day (or 3/day with two levels of MoMS). It'll mean at least the main bad guy in each encounter can be faced with the very best the ranger has to offer.
That's a pretty good idea... I forgot about that archetype. I'll post the Guide variant for each build. Thanks for the reminder.
Are you including the animal companion DPR also? They also benefit from favored enemy. :)
Make sure they get at least a +1 amulet of mighty fist so they can overcome DR magic, if nothing else.
Oh, they don't have animal companions... These guys are Monk wannabes, remember? And most Monks have no pet wolves! ^^
If you want, I can make a build with animal companions... All it changes is a single feat and slightly different gear.
Huh... My Rangers seem to be dealing considerably low damage... I wonder why that is...
I think the Unarmed Strike + TWF feat tax hurts them really bad.
Let me see... Here is a more DPR-focused version of the MoMS Ranger... This one is human.
Human Monk (Master of Many Styles) 2 Ranger 8
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 24, touch 13, flat-footed 22 (+8 armor, +3 shield, +2 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 87 (8d10+2d8+30)
Fort +14 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +14, Will +11; +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning
Defensive Abilities evasion
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +14/+9 (1d4+13/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +18/+13 (1d6+19/19-20/x2)
Ranged +1 Composite longbow (Str +6) +13/+8 (1d8+7/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (dragons +2, undead +4)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 7):
2 (2/day) Barkskin (x2)
1 (2/day) Longstrider, Resist Energy
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Statistics
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Str 24, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +9; CMB +18 (+20 Grappling); CMD 29
Feats Double Slice, Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+7 rds, Dragon Style, Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed strike), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack -3/+6, Snake Fang, Snake Style, Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 17), Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike)
Traits Indomitable Faith, Magical Knack (Ranger)
Skills Acrobatics +6, Bluff -2 (+0 vs. dragons, +2 vs. undead), Climb +11, Escape Artist +0, Fly +0, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Knowledge (nature) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Knowledge (religion) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Perception +15 (+17 vs. dragons, +19 vs. undead, +17 while in forest terrain, +19 while in underground terrain), Ride +0, Sense Motive +17 (+19 vs. dragons, +21 vs. undead), Stealth +15 (+17 while in forest terrain, +19 while in underground terrain), Survival +6 (+8 to avoid becoming lost, +8 vs. dragons, +10 vs. undead, +8 while in forest terrain, +10 while in underground terrain, +10 to track), Swim +11 (+15 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Common
SQ brawling, combat styles (two-weapon combat), favored terrains (forest +2, underground +4), fuse style (2 styles), hunter's bonds (companions), stunning fist (stun), swift tracker, track, unarmed strike (1d6), wild empathy, woodland stride
Combat Gear Potion of enlarge person, Potion of fly, Wand of cure light wounds; Other Gear +2 Brawling Mithral Breastplate, +1 Heavy steel shield, +1 Composite longbow (Str +6), Amulet of mighty fists +1, Belt of giant strength +4, Cloak of resistance +3, Feather step slippers, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, Ioun stone (pale green prism (cracked, Attack), Ring of protection +1, Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs), Masterwork tool (Climb), Masterwork tool (Stealth), Masterwork tool (Swim), 630 GP
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Special Abilities
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Brawling Unarmed strikes count as magic for bypassing DR.
Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+7 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Favored Enemy (Dragons +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Dragons).
Favored Enemy (Undead +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Terrain (Forest +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Forest).
Favored Terrain (Underground +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Underground).
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Hunting Companions (2 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Magical Knack (Ranger) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Snake Fang If opponent misses you, make an attack of opportunity as an immediate action
Snake Style Gain +2 on Sense Motive checks, and deal piercing damage with unarmed attacks
Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 17) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Swift Tracker (Ex) Tracking penalties when moving at normal speed or faster are reduced.
Track +4 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs) A small magical device patterned off ancient relics of the Azlanti, a wayfinder is typically made from silver and bears gold accents. With a command word, you can use a wayfinder to shine (as the light spell). The wayfinder also acts as a nonmagical (magnetic) compass, granting you a +2 circumstance bonus on Survival checks to avoid becoming lost. All wayfinders include a small indentation designed to hold a single ioun stone.
He has lower saves (Fort 14, Ref 14, Will 11) and AC (24), but more HP (87) and higher DPR (56.7, or 71.55 with PA)
I'll try a finesse MMoS Ranger next... Just to see how it compares to the Str-based one.
The + behind your damage isn't particularly high, that is why Power Attack improves on the DPR even with the attack penalty. Consider the deliquiscent gloves to add an extra 1d6 acid damage (at 8000gp, a steal). Also if you can somehow get the 13000gp for a monk's robe, your unarmed attack improves to 1d8.
Finally, for the MoMS+Ranger version, consider taking enough levels of MoMS to qualify for Monastic Legacy (ultimate combat feat). 4 levels MoMS and 6 levels of ranger = effective monk unarmed level of 7. Combined with a monk robe you get an effective unarmed level of 12; in other words a 2d6 unarmed strike.
The + behind your damage isn't particularly high, that is why Power Attack improves on the DPR even with the attack penalty. Consider the deliquiscent gloves to add an extra 1d6 acid damage (at 8000gp, a steal). Also if you can somehow get the 13000gp for a monk's robe, your unarmed attack improves to 1d8.
Finally, for the MoMS+Ranger version, consider taking enough levels of MoMS to qualify for Monastic Legacy (ultimate combat feat). 4 levels MoMS and 6 levels of ranger = effective monk unarmed level of 7. Combined with a monk robe you get an effective unarmed level of 12; in other words a 2d6 unarmed strike.
Ah, these are great ideas... Let me try...
The thing I mention about Power Attack improving DPR: Power Attack only improves DPR if your damage without Power Attack is low enough, if the bonus from Power Attack is a relatively small percentage of the total damage on 1 hit, then using Power Attack actually lowers your DPR.
Example 1:
level 10 (10 bab)
+18 to hit 1d3+2 damage, vs 24 AC
DPR 0.8 * 4 = 3.2
with PA 0.65 * 10 = 6.5
Example 2:
level 10 (10 bab)
+18 to hit 2d6+20 damage, vs 24 AC
DPR 0.8 * 27 = 21.6
with PA 0.65 * 33 = 21.45
Example 3:
level 10 (10 bab)
+18 to hit 4d6+30 damage, vs 24 AC
DPR 0.8 * 44 = 35.2
with PA 0.65 * 50 = 32.5
That means that many classes that get a big bonus to damage from somewhere (Favored Enemy, Smite, Challenge, Rage with Dragon Style) actually should steer clear of Power Attack.
@Lemmy: perhaps consider - for the purpose of these simulations - a "guide" archetype ranger. That would allow you to declare a favored enemy 4/day (or 3/day with two levels of MoMS). It'll mean at least the main bad guy in each encounter can be faced with the very best the ranger has to offer.That's a pretty good idea... I forgot about that archetype. I'll post the Guide variant for each build. Thanks for the reminder.
Are you including the animal companion DPR also? They also benefit from favored enemy. :)
Make sure they get at least a +1 amulet of mighty fist so they can overcome DR magic, if nothing else.
Oh, they don't have animal companions... These guys are Monk wannabes, remember? And most Monks have no pet wolves! ^^
If you want, I can make a build with animal companions... All it changes is a single feat and slightly different gear.
Just to be clear you dont have any rangers in this?
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Ah, these are great ideas... Let me try...The + behind your damage isn't particularly high, that is why Power Attack improves on the DPR even with the attack penalty. Consider the deliquiscent gloves to add an extra 1d6 acid damage (at 8000gp, a steal). Also if you can somehow get the 13000gp for a monk's robe, your unarmed attack improves to 1d8.
Finally, for the MoMS+Ranger version, consider taking enough levels of MoMS to qualify for Monastic Legacy (ultimate combat feat). 4 levels MoMS and 6 levels of ranger = effective monk unarmed level of 7. Combined with a monk robe you get an effective unarmed level of 12; in other words a 2d6 unarmed strike.
See why I prefer these types of discussions :)
Just to be clear you dont have any rangers in this?
???
I have 3 "Monkish" Ranger builds here... But none of them chose Animal Companion as their hunter Bond.And BTW... What are the rules on crafting magical item? Getting AoMF and Cloaks of Resistance at half the price would surely make a great difference. ^^
Only to one attack for the Ranger, unless he gets two gloves.Consider the deliquiscent gloves to add an extra 1d6 acid damage (at 8000gp, a steal).
Actually, not even then... He uses one hand to hold a shield.
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Just to be clear you dont have any rangers in this????
I have 3 "Monkish" Ranger builds here... But none of them chose Animal Companion as their hunter Bond.And BTW... What are the rules on crafting magical item? Getting AoMF and Cloaks of Resistance at half the price would surely make a great difference. ^^
I would allow you to craft the items at half price exactly as they are in the book, but no custom items are combing magic items to free up slots. That involves too much GM Fiat.
I would allow you to craft the items at half price exactly as they are in the book, but no custom items are combing magic items to free up slots. That involves too much GM Fiat.Just to be clear you dont have any rangers in this????
I have 3 "Monkish" Ranger builds here... But none of them chose Animal Companion as their hunter Bond.And BTW... What are the rules on crafting magical item? Getting AoMF and Cloaks of Resistance at half the price would surely make a great difference. ^^
No problem.
I'll post the same build here, one with Craft Magical Items, and one without it...First... The "I just want to punch people in the face" build. No item crafting at all. Just your good ol' magic market...
Let's call him... face puncher.
Human (Azlanti) Monk (Master of Many Styles) 3 Ranger 7
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 24, touch 13, flat-footed 22 (+8 armor, +3 shield, +2 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 83 (7d10+3d8+27)
Fort +13 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +13, Will +11; +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning, +2 vs. enchantment spells and effects
Defensive Abilities evasion
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +17/+12 (1d4+7/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +21/+16 (1d8+14/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks favored enemies (dragons +2, undead +4)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 4):
2 (1/day) Barkskin
1 (2/day) Longstrider, Resist Energy
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Statistics
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Str 24, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +9; CMB +19 (+21 Grappling); CMD 29
Feats Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+7 rds, Dragon Style, Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed strike), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monastic Legacy (+3), Power Attack -3/+6, Snake Fang, Snake Style, Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 17), Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike)
Traits Indomitable Faith, Quain Martial Artist
Skills Acrobatics +6, Bluff -1 (+1 vs. dragons, +3 vs. undead), Climb +9, Escape Artist +0, Fly +0, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Knowledge (nature) +13 (+15 vs. dragons, +17 vs. undead), Knowledge (religion) +11 (+13 vs. dragons, +15 vs. undead), Perception +15 (+17 vs. dragons, +19 vs. undead, +17 while in underground terrain), Ride +0, Sense Motive +17 (+19 vs. dragons, +21 vs. undead), Stealth +13 (+15 while in underground terrain), Survival +6 (+8 vs. dragons, +10 vs. undead, +8 while in underground terrain, +9 to track), Swim +9 (+13 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Azlanti, Common
SQ brawling, combat styles (two-weapon combat), favored terrain (underground +2), fuse style (2 styles), hunter's bonds (companions), maneuver training, stunning fist (stun), track, unarmed strike (1d8), wild empathy, woodland stride
Combat Gear Deliquescent gloves; Other Gear +2 Brawling Mithral Breastplate, +1 Heavy steel shield, Amulet of mighty fists +1, Belt of giant strength +4, Cloak of resistance +3, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, Ioun stone (pale green prism (cracked, Attack), Ring of protection +1, 630 GP
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Special Abilities
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Brawling Unarmed strikes count as magic for bypassing DR.
Deliquescent gloves +1d6 acid dam to touch/weapon att. Natural/unarmed att is immune to ooze acid & doesn't split.
Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+7 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Favored Enemy (Dragons +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Dragons).
Favored Enemy (Undead +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Terrain (Underground +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Underground).
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Hunting Companions (2 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Snake Fang If opponent misses you, make an attack of opportunity as an immediate action
Snake Style Gain +2 on Sense Motive checks, and deal piercing damage with unarmed attacks
Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 17) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Track +3 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Unarmed Strike (1d8) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Wild Empathy +6 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Woodland Stride (Ex) Move through undergrowth at normal speed.
AC: 24 (26 with Barkskin)
DPR against AC 24: 64,67
...With Power Attack: 67,65
......Against main Favored Enemy (Undead): 104,26
I don't know how to calculate any occasional DPR granted by Snake Style, though... -.-' If this helps: Against an enemy with AC 24, a single AoO from this guy causes and average of 20,56 damage.
Regarding the Snake Fang, when I did the calculations I assumed that on average a CR 10 creature would have 2 "high" and 1 "low" attack, based on the stats from the Bestiary monster baselines. The high attacks attack at +18, and the low attack at +13.
In your case (your ranger is 24 AC) that would work out to be:
2 * 0.25 * AOO DPR + 1 * 0.5 * AOO DPR
= 2 * 0.25 * 20.56 + 0.5 * 20.56
= 20.56
Unfortunately this does not capture using Snake Style's Sense Motive immediate action interrupt, which should push the average Snake Fang damage up a little bit.
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I am probably missing something obvious, but how did you get to plus 21 unarmed? I see Bab 9+ 7 Str +1 AoMF, +2 Brawling for a total of +19.
Edit: Also, was there ever an official ruling on if Mithral medium still counted as light for brawling. Not trying to start anything, I personally would allow it given how the rule is written, just asking as it seems odd in the context of not allowing it with Bracers.
I am probably missing something obvious, but how did you get to plus 21 unarmed? I see Bab 9+ 7 Str +1 AoMF, +2 Brawling for a total of +19.
Good question... let me see...
9 BAB + 1 AoMF + 7 Str + 2 Brawling Armor +1 WF +1 Pale Green Ioun Stone: +21
However, there is another mistake there... I forgot about Double Slice...
I'll have to rearrange the build a little...
EDIT: Bah, nevermind, just use the previous builds, I'm too tired to do it again...
Jakiro is designed to not be as damage focused as my previous submissions.
How does he survive until he can get an agile amulet of mighty fists? I mean his AC is good but his damage is appalling at low level, so while an interesting take I don't think this kind of build would see light of day in a real game.
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I am probably missing something obvious, but how did you get to plus 21 unarmed? I see Bab 9+ 7 Str +1 AoMF, +2 Brawling for a total of +19.Good question... let me see...
9 BAB + 1 AoMF + 7 Str + 2 Brawling Armor +1 WF +1 Pale Green Ioun Stone: +21
However, there is another mistake there... I forgot about Double Slice...
I'll have to rearrange the build a little...
Sorry, missed WF and the Ioun stone. The more I do this the more options appear :)
Okay, okay... Last entry... The real "I just want to kick people in the neck" build...
Ranger 6/Brawler Fighter 3/MoMS Monk 1...
Male Human (Azlanti) Fighter (Brawler) 3 Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1 Ranger 6
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +14
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Defense
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AC 25, touch 13, flat-footed 23 (+8 armor, +4 shield, +2 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 78 (9d10+1d8+20)
Fort +15 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +13, Will +12 (+1 vs. fear); +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning
Defensive Abilities bravery +1
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +18/+13 (1d4+10/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +22/+17 (1d6+16/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks close combatant +1/+3, favored enemies (monstrous humanoids +2, undead +4)
Ranger Spells Prepared (CL 5):
1 (2/day) Longstrider (x2)
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Statistics
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Str 24, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +9; CMB +18 (+19 Bull Rushing, +19 Dragging, +20 Grappling, +19 Repositioning); CMD 29 (30 vs. Bull Rush, 30 vs. Drag, 30 vs. Reposition)
Feats Double Slice, Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+7 rds, Dragon Style, Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed strike), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Iron Will, Power Attack -3/+6, Snake Fang, Snake Style, Stunning Fist (3/day) (DC 16), Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike)
Traits Indomitable Faith, Magical Knack (Ranger)
Skills Acrobatics +10, Bluff -2 (+0 vs. monstrous humanoids, +2 vs. undead), Climb +11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +12 (+14 vs. monstrous humanoids, +16 vs. undead), Knowledge (nature) +11 (+13 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. undead), Knowledge (religion) +11 (+13 vs. monstrous humanoids, +15 vs. undead), Perception +14 (+16 vs. monstrous humanoids, +18 vs. undead, +16 while in underground terrain), Sense Motive +16 (+18 vs. monstrous humanoids, +20 vs. undead), Stealth +15 (+17 while in underground terrain), Survival +1 (+3 vs. monstrous humanoids, +5 vs. undead, +3 while in underground terrain, +4 to track), Swim +11 (+15 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion)
Languages Azlanti, Common
SQ brawling, combat styles (two-weapon combat), favored terrain (underground +2), fuse style (2 styles), hunter's bonds (companions), stunning fist (stun), track, unarmed strike (1d6), wild empathy
Combat Gear Deliquescent gloves, Potion of enlarge person, Potion of fly; Other Gear +2 Brawling Mithral Breastplate, +2 Heavy steel shield, Amulet of mighty fists +1, Belt of giant strength +4, Cloak of resistance +3, Ioun stone (pale green prism (cracked, Attack), Ring of protection +1, 30 GP
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Special Abilities
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Bravery +1 (Ex) +1 to Will save vs. Fear
Brawling Unarmed strikes count as magic for bypassing DR.
Close Combatant +1/+3 (Ex) +1 to hit and +3 damage with close weapons.
Deliquescent gloves +1d6 acid dam to touch/weapon att. Natural/unarmed att is immune to ooze acid & doesn't split.
Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+7 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoids +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Monstrous Humanoids).
Favored Enemy (Undead +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Favored Terrain (Underground +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Underground).
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Hunting Companions (1 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Magical Knack (Ranger) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Snake Fang If opponent misses you, make an attack of opportunity as an immediate action
Snake Style Gain +2 on Sense Motive checks, and deal piercing damage with unarmed attacks
Stunning Fist (3/day) (DC 16) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Track +3 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Wild Empathy +4 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
AC: 25
DPR Against AC 24: 72.94
...With Power Attack: 74,41
......Against main Favored Enemy (Undead):115,17 O.O
Useful stuff to do out of combat: Skills, Wands of CLW and minor spellcasting...
Skills (ACP Included): Acrobatics +8, Climb +9, Perception +14, Kn(Dungeon)+12, Kn(Nature) +11, Kn(Religion)+11 (+15 to identify undead), Sense Motive +16, Stealth +13, Swim +9.
Jakiro is designed to not be as damage focused as my previous submissions.How does he survive until he can get an agile amulet of mighty fists? I mean his AC is good but his damage is appalling at low level, so while an interesting take I don't think this kind of build would see light of day in a real game.
It's because I'm a very patient man. And the character does not play in isolation.
I've got two similar builds (one in PFS); they both managed quite fine. Fortunately there is a whole party to support me, and early on it is easy to focus on alternative ways of doing combat (I usually favor disarms and trips, possibly grapples and dirty trick) even without having the Improved feats. It may seem weird, but I've also spent combats doing aid-another (for AC and attack) when I was too weak to do damage myself (DR can be a pain) - and on the other hand, it isn't that hard to have enemies spend a couple of rounds of attention on you to buy time for others, or use attacks where Str doesn't matter much, such as ranged attacks.
I've also played builds that only start being "proper" from levels 8 and 11 onward. And I'm fine with that. For the same reason that I like to play monks: I like a challenge like that. A long game that bears fruits a year later.
I think that the levels of optimization we're doing here are generally perverse to the game. The monsters from Bestiary 1 are designed with Core characters in mind - but the actual hero's that we play typically exceed the expectation two-fold or even three-fold. It is perfectly fine to play with sub-optimal characters, or - to bring it back to this reply - to a character that is sub-optimal for a while.
Bleeding Rain. it's an archery fighter linked from myth weavers who starts 110 feet away from her foes whenever possible and swiftly turns them into a pincushion in 2-3 maybe 4 rounds, her useful out of combat stuff includes
minor chance of identifying structures (engineering +6) hunting for food for herself and up to 3 companions by taking 10 (Survival +7), tracking (survival +7), gathering a slight bit of info (Diplomacy +11) and a small bit of scouting (Stealth +15 perception +18), plus she can craft her own arrows to reduce ammo costs.