The use of the word frontliner concerns me. Its difficult to have your combat beast cake and eat your 9th level spellcasting too...
Difficult is definitely what its proving to be, I'll grant you that, heheheh.
In my experiencem generally eidolons are front liners... The fact that they even belong on the front line is due to the spellbuffs. Thats totally the very nature of summoners. My eidolon's effectiveness unbuffed at level 20 has already been proven to be zero... And the number of times I can buff her has gone down significantly from what a normal summoner could do. This is sort of why I think 'at what point do you decide that its enough nerfing'...
A wizard can know every spell, but if he could only cast 1 spell per level per day, is he still the most powerful class in the game? Theres got to be a point where you say... No... quantity is more significant than spell level power at some point. If spells per level per day didnt matter then why give wizards more than 1. Theres a point where you'd say 'I wouldnt want to play that anymore' and if the only way this class gets to a point where its 'not too powerful to play' is when 'its completely irrelevent to play' I think the gauge of how much effect the nerfs are having needs to be reconsidered.
Cartmanbeck had the feeling that 'geez that might be too much nerfin' right out of the gate... Yet we're talking about more nerfs. I dont think we should be talking about big nerfs at this stage though...
She's completely ineffective wthout spells, and there are many less spells per day with which to make her effective... I did feel like I had enough grow room after the cuts to put in dimension step and transmogrify... Cartmanbeck still felt like it was still a little low at that point.
I understand the natural tendency to say 'spontaneous 9 and eidolon is too powerful' case closed... but if a sorcerer had 1 spell per level per day would he still even be considered? How low does it have to go before you start to think no... what would even be the point of playing that... he needs a little more than that.
If its qualities and quantities, the types of fun this class can have are mostly less dangerous or as dangerous as any other class... The quantity of times that this class approaches that level of danger is flat out half as often as any other caster... Having half as many spells per day as a summoner or a wizard should mean more than I think it's getting credit for, while the disastrous onslought that can be wrought by being able to put a 9th level spell on an otherwise combat irrelevant eidolon 3 times per day is being perhaps oversold...
First of all, one less spell per level and loss of bonus spells doesn't constitute half your spells lost. That's what I was advocating for. Looking at the chart it's the difference between six first level spells and 7 across the board after that, and just straight 5s. We Are talking about combining two of the most powerful class features in the game, into one class. reductions are necessary or else there would be no reason to ever play any thing else. Now are you completely committed to the Fey type eidolon. I ask because if we used The Aberration type, then the eidolon is bumped up to d8 hit die, and 3/4 BAB. It would be a reasonable combat upgrade without braking the bank.
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about with six first level spells and 7s across the board so there may be some miscommunications happening.
My build was for 2s across the board, so sacrificing 1 spell per level per day would bring it down to 1... Going from 18 spells per day to 9... which would be half my spells lost.
I might need to clarify what you're suggesting there. And of course my interest is less for upgrading her from fey eidolon to something more robust as much as I'm trying to get 9th level spells to use both on the eidolon and not. I like that she's ineffective without buffs and the only way they're truly effective is as a team... The more powerful she becomes as an eidolon, the less justification I have for getting high level spells... But high level spells is the goal. Even if and expecially if it means less spells per day of every level, which is what I wrote up. If we thing it's overpowered then making the eidolon more powerful is going the opposite direction of the way I have to go to get those 7-9 arcane spells.
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about with six first level spells and 7s across the board so there may be some miscommunications happening.
My build was for 2s across the board, so sacrificing 1 spell per level per day would bring it down to 1... Going from 18 spells per day to 9... which would be half my spells lost.
I might need to clarify what you're suggesting there.
I was talking about one less from the normal sorcerer (I mentioned it matching the progression of a crossblooded sorcerer minus the bonus spells) That would be five of every level spell at level 20 before bonus spells.
Ah yeah. In the interest of keeping to my 'half as many spells per day as any other caster' thing, which is my main selling point, when I rewrote the spell table using summoners table, I made it straight 3s so that it would wind up back at 18 spells per day. I'm willing to cut spells per day in half to get access to the higher levels... unless doing so isnt considered a nerf, which I think it should be. The 'number of spells known at level 10 problem' sort of killed that table and i'm kinda glad it did...
Tempting me with ninth level spells at character level 16...
Ah yeah. In the interest of keeping to my 'half as many spells per day as any other caster' thing, which is my main selling point, when I rewrote the spell table using summoners table, I made it straight 3s so that it would wind up back at 18 spells per day. I'm willing to cut spells per day in half to get access to the higher levels... unless doing so isnt considered a nerf, which I think it should be.
that's ok then, we're back on the same page. Any thoughts on a Aberrant Eidolon. 3/4 bab and d8 hitdie seem fair for that spell array.
The summoner spell array with 9th level spells becoming 6th level spells had an untenable moment so I kinda had to drop it, but with the wizards 2's straight across spell array I'm actually happy with half bab d6 ^_^
The class is already written that way ^_^
The summoner spell array with 9th level spells becoming 6th level spells had an untenable moment so I kinda had to drop it, but with the wizards 2's straight across spell array I'm actually happy with half bab d6 ^_^
The class is already written that way ^_^
the fey eidolon has 1/2 BAB and D6, because that's how fey progress racially, I recommended the Aberrant because it does return a little bang for you're buck at 3/4 BAB and d8. I wasn't talking about the class itself.
I defintely wouldnt mind doing it if I didnt think it would hurt my chances of keeping the 2 spells per level per day from 7-9... Theres no doubt she could use a little more bang for the buck. I dont mind using the halfbab d6 though since its thematically appropriate for a dryad/nymph type eidolon... Its one of the things that a first world summoner archetype has going for it as a trade in an MCA discussion... It's widely regarded as a flat out nerf with little benefit to offset the nerf.
so what's the official ruling on the array, because I think straight 3's would be perfectly acceptable with an Abberant Eidolon
So far i'll stick with my original write up of wizards table, straight 2's.
Straight 3s might be asking a little much.
If theres one place on this build I wanna feel like I nerfed as far as I can, spells per day is it....
I can't go as low as straight 1's... but straight 2's feels about right.
So far i'll stick with my original write up of wizards table, straight 2's.
Straight 3s might be asking a little much.
If theres one place on this build I wanna feel like I nerfed as far as I can, spells per day is it....
I can't go as low as straight 1's... but straight 2's feels about right.
fair enough.
I think my next MCA will be and Inquisitor/Cleric.
Looking at a full domain, some channeling, less teamwork.
crap better start start on the Hex Gunman
Byrdology has passed on some MCAs to me so I guess I am starting with the Shadow Ronin, since it simply needs a replacement for Honorable Stand. will take a night to consider options.
the following archetypes Byrd passed on to me to work on. The Ki Mage (ninja/sorcerer), Shrouded Seer (orcale/ninja), and as mentioned above, the Shadow Ronin (Samurai/ninja). Gonna finish these off for him.
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Okay people, serious moment here.
Many of you have tried joining the wiki, and frankly, that's not going to happen right now. We WILL, at some point this summer, likely decide on one to three new Contributors- people who can make and edit pages, but not delete or lock.
If you want to join the wiki and reach Contributor status, then contribute -HERE-. It's your best, and really the only, bet.
We might also be looking for editors in the future to ease the load on Flak and Elghinn, and perhaps even consider other positions if/when we move to another site where we have more control.
Now back to MCA stuffs!
Anyone mind if I attempt to make a Magus/Sorcerer?
Go for it >:3
ok so i have so i have one to throw up please be kind
(i have no ability to make ability names so)
lvl1 bomb:deal one die step down so d6s normally to d4s instead
lvl1 bloodline: the blood alchemist picks a blood line just like a sorcerer
lvl1 blood imprinted mutagen: whenever they use a mutagen or a cognatogen they also take a -2 to con with the normal penalty gain bloodline powers determined by the bloodline he picked and his level his alchemist level counts as his sorcerer level for all ability and replace cha mod with int mod (the alchemist can never chose to increase con with his mutagen)
this replaces poison restances
lvl2 discoveries from blood: the alchemist may take any bloodline feat as a discovery
lvl6 power of blood:the blood alchemist can spill his own blood in order to get what he needs as a standard action he can willing take 1 con damage to make 2 bombs or as a full round action he can take 1 point of con damage per spell lvl to make one extract. unlike normale con damage it can be healed after one full day of rest or long term care)
this replace swift poisoning and bomb damage
p-class alchemist
s-class sorcerer
Welcome Kyras
The Blood Alchemist looks interesting, it is generally appreciated if it is presentented with a progression table and that new abilities state what they replace.
But as to the MCA itself. I feel like the name should be changed to not have alchemist in it. Blood something.
On to the abilties
d4 bombs allows for some additional things to be added, though the bloodline abilities might be a bit much
the blood imprinted mutagen my understanding of what you have is that whenever he uses a mutagen he loses 2 con and gains his bloodline abilites for the duration. The problem I see is that not all bloodline abilities are like a draconic sorcerer with claws and in cases where you do gain them it is for minutes per mutagen rather than rounds per day in total with a sorcerer. I think instead an ability that allows for bloodline abilities to be added to bombs/ for bloodlines like draconic they can use a mutagen to activate their bloodline ability with a penalty to one of their mental stats
getting bloodline feats with discoveries is a good idea, I would also let them learn their bloodline spells as extracts perhaps at a slower rate.
I don't see how you can use blood to make a bomb, but the blood for extract looks interesting.
Overall I think a really interesting MCA could be made out of this
the bloodline power in addition to normal mutagen boon and while in the mutagen state can a activated. looking over the power like the draconic ones still use if we added to the spell list but did not have a great way to go about it.
the problem I see with that is that very few bloodline powers are simply things like grow claws, most are ranged touch attacks and thus would make more sense to be able to apply to a bomb as a swift action.
i will try and have a complete write-up of how I see a blood alchemist done before the end of the weekend
Right, it's a rough draft and I need to head out quickly so there's not many comments.
Primary Class: Magus.
Secondary Class: Sorcerer.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The bloodborn magus may select three sorcerer skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal magus class skills. The bloodborn magus gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bloodborn magus is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A bloodborn magus is also proficient with light armor. He can cast magus spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a bloodborn magus wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass bloodborn magus still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellcasting: The bloodborn magus casts arcane spell drawn from the magus spell list. The bloodborn magus otherwise learns and casts spells as a bard equal to his bloodborn magus level. A bloodborn magus has spells known equal to that of a bard of his level. A bloodborn magus gains bonus spells for a high Charisma score.
Upon reaching 4th level and every even level after that (6th, 8th and so on), a bloodborn magus can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already known. In effect, the bloodborn magus loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. A bloodborn magus may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the sametime that he gains new spells known for the level.
This modifies the spellcasting ability.
Comments: This retains the same number of spells per day, and the bard's spells known table seemed fair.
Arcane Pool: A bloodborn magus has a number of points equal to 1/2 his bloodborn magus level (minimum 1) + his Charisma modifier in his arcane pool. This modifies, but otherwise functions as the magus' arcane pool.
Comments: Due to spellcasting being swapped to Cha I figured it best if the arcane pool was as well.
Bloodline: At 1st level a bloodborn magus chooses a sorcerer bloodline and adds the bloodline skill to his list of class skills. This ability and the bloodline powers gained replaces spell recall, knowledge pool, fighter training, and improved spell recall.
Comments: Not sure if it's a worthwhile trade, but I wanted to retain a high number of the magus' class features that seemed important to me. Losing the knowledge aspects (as the spellcasting is now innate instead of learned) and the more warrior-focused aspects (due to the focus on bloodline abilities) seemed somewhat fair.
Eschew Materials: A bloodborn magus gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level. This replaces medium armor gained at 7th level.
Comments: Swapping what's basically two bonus feats swapped for a single one.
Bloodline Arcana: At 3rd level a bloodborn magus gains the bloodline arcana for his chosen bloodline. This replaces the magus arcana gained at 3rd level.
Bloodline Spells: At 4th level and every three levels thereafter (7th, 10th, and so on) the bloodline magus adds his bloodline spells to his spells known, up to the 6th level spell. At 20th level he adds the 7th, 8th and 9th level spells from his bloodline to his spells known as if they were 6th level spells. These spells are cast as if they were magus spells for the purposes of all other class features. This replaces greater spell access.
Comments: I debated adding the 7th, 8th and 9th level spells as spell-like ability, but figured having Wish as a spell-like ability (thus no material cost) could be far too powerful. So he ends up losing 14 spells of 0th to 6th level, but gaining 9 spells up to 9th level.
Bloodline Powers: At 4th level a bloodborn magus gains the 1st level bloodline power from his bloodline. At 7th, 10th and 19th he gains his 3rd level, 9th level, and 15th level bloodline powers.
Bonus Feats: A bloodborn magus may choose from his bloodline feats when choosing his bonus feats, however he may not choose any item creation feats.
Comments: As before, this magus has innate magic, not studied so I swapped the bonus feats.
Medium Armor: At 13th level, a bloodborn magus gains proficiency with medium armor. A bloodborn magus can cast magus spells while wearing medium armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a bloodborn magus wearing heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. This replaces heavy armor.
Table: Bloodborn Magus
Level BAB Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Arcane pool, cantrips, spell combat, bloodline, eschew materials 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Spellstrike 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Bloodline arcana 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bloodline power, bloodline spell 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bonus feat 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Magus arcana 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Bloodline power, bloodline spell 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Improved spell combat 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Magus arcana 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Bloodline spell 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Bonus feat, 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Magus arcana 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Bloodline spell, bloodline power, medium armor 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Greater spell combat 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Magus arcana 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Counterstrike 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Bonus feat 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Magus arcana 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Bloodline spell, bloodline power 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Bloodline spells (7th, 8th, 9th), true magus 5 5 5 5 5 5
Table: Bloodborn Magus Spells Known
Level 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st 4 2 — — — — —
2nd 5 3 — — — — —
3rd 6 4 — — — — —
4th 6 4 2 — — — —
5th 6 4 3 — — — —
6th 6 4 4 — — — —
7th 6 5 4 2 — — —
8th 6 5 4 3 — — —
9th 6 5 4 4 — — —
10th 6 5 5 4 2 — —
11th 6 6 5 4 3 — —
12th 6 6 5 4 4 — —
13th 6 6 5 5 4 2 —
14th 6 6 6 5 4 3 —
15th 6 6 6 5 4 4 —
16th 6 6 6 5 5 4 2
17th 6 6 6 6 5 4 3
18th 6 6 6 6 5 4 4
19th 6 6 6 6 5 5 4
20th 6 6 6 6 6 5 5
I was looking at the Shadow Magus...is it just me or is he a little bit MAD?
He needs INT for spells CHA for his pool a moderate CON as a mostly frontliner. STR or DEX if you plan on hitting anything.
I would say he should be MAD given that he can cast spells, has a ki pool and can fight. Just like a Cleric is a MAD class.
@Kyras Ausks - welcome to the thread!
Re: Blood Alchemist: I don't mind the naming convention at all - we have plenty of MCAs whose Primary class name is merely preceded by a thematic version of the Secondary class name. I could see Blood Chemist work though.
Mostly I think this needs a bit more to make it exciting - I've seen a lot of the "spill my own blood for power" (even in RPGSS this year IIRC) and I'd like to see some more blood related stuff - bloodline bombs - perhaps even a twesk to bombs as a whole to be a bloodspray virus kind of thing - perhaps a tweak to a bunch of sample bloodlines detailing a negative effect for each bloodline (like the bad part of the Oracle's Curse) that might be transmitted by a "bloodbomb".
Similarly the bloodline mutation feels like a no-brainer, but there are a *lot* of options, and it vould be tricky to break down.
Nice concept!
@Browman:
* What is the bloodline arcana that replaces the 3rd level magus arcana?
* What are the Bloodborn Magus' bloodline powers replacing?
I think you are talking to Alfray, I have done nothing with bloodborn magnus yet.
Understandable, but I just think its a bit much. I mean a normal magus or ninja can burn through their respective pools rather quick so I think allowing them both to build off of intelligence isn't to much. After all a Shadow Magus at least from a glance can really burn through some points faster than its base classes.
I was looking at the Shadow Magus...is it just me or is he a little bit MAD?
He needs INT for spells CHA for his pool a moderate CON as a mostly frontliner. STR or DEX if you plan on hitting anything.
A number of MCA's end up needing an extra stat over what the original class does. And that doesn't sound any worse than, say, the paladin...
ok so i have so i have one to throw up please be kind
Huh... don't know if I like this one. Lemme think on it a bit and get back to ya, but the bloodline feat thing is a problem for sure. Can't be letting them get the bloodline feat stuff before the sorcerer could :P
I think you are talking to Alfray, I have done nothing with bloodborn magnus yet.
Right you are!
@Alfray Strike:
* What is the bloodline arcana that replaces the Bloodborn Magus' 3rd level magus arcana?
* What are the Bloodborn Magus' bloodline powers replacing?
I think you are talking to Alfray, I have done nothing with bloodborn magnus yet.Right you are!
@Alfray Strike:
* What is the bloodline arcana that replaces the Bloodborn Magus' 3rd level magus arcana?
* What are the Bloodborn Magus' bloodline powers replacing?
Right, apologies for not being clear. Also I highly doubt this this is balanced currently.
1) I'm suggesting that we swap the 3rd level magus arcana for the sorcerer's bloodline arcana (normally gained at level 1). An example is the Draconic bloodline's: Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your draconic bloodline's energy type, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.
2) I'm suggesting swapping spell recall, knowledge pool, fighter training, and improved spell recall for the bloodline powers at 4th, 7th 13th and 19th level (gaining the 1st, 3rd, 9th and 15th level powers only) and adding the associated class skill to your list of class skills at 1st level (for example a draconic bloodline character would add Perception).
My other swaps are;
Prepared Int-based spellcasting for spontaneous Cha-based spellcasting. Same number of spells per day. Spells known as a bard.
Greater spell access for bloodline spells every three levels starting at 3rd and ending at 19th (for up the 6th level spell), and the 7th, 8th and 9th level spells added to spells known as if they were 6th level magus spells at 20th level.
Bonus feats: Change choices from combat, item creation and metamagic to combat, bloodline and metamagic feats.
Lose medium armour proficiency and being able to cast in medium armour at 7th level for Eschew Material as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Gain medium armour proficiency and being able to cast in medium armour at 13th level in exchange for heavy armour proficiency and being able to cast in heavy armour.
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Well i put together the shadow ronin, with the swapped abilities listed, a replacement for the 11th level abilty (burn 2 ki to regain 1 use of resolve, woot), rewrote the order to be open to any samurai (though multiclass and this archetype are the only one to receive immediate benefit), and changed the name to Shogun's Shadow (to differentiate from the order). Will post Monday at the latest.
I did it^^
Primary Class: Wizard
Secondary Class: Oracle
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d6
Skills: As wizard, plus the occult philologist adds to his class skills list the bonus skills provided by his chosen mystery (see below); if the mystery provides a skill that he already possesses, he may choose another.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int
BAB: As wizard
ST: PPG
Weapons and Armor: Wizard weapons, light armor (subject to spell failure), no shields.
Spells: As wizard + mystery spells
Class Features:
1) arcane mystery, cantrips, philology, Scribe Scroll, wordspell bond
5/10/15) Revelation
20) Final Revelation
Arcane Mystery: The occult philologist gains access to an oracle mystery chosen among the following: Ancestor, Dark Tapestry, Heavens, Lore, Occult, Spirits*, Time, Words*. He adds the mystery bonus spells to his spell lists at the appropriate levels. The occult philologist receives an additional spell slot of each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up. Each day, the occult philologist must prepare his mystery spells in that slots. An occult philologist can select a mystery spell modified by a metamagic feat to prepare in his bonus slot, but it uses up a higher–level spell slot. The occult philologist may prepare mystery spells in ordinary spell slots too if he so chooses. An occult philologist must normally select two magic schools as his opposition schools.
The occult philologist receives one revelation from his chosen mystery at 1st level. At 5th, 10th and 15th level, he gains another revelation. At 20th level, the occult philologist receives the final revelation from his mystery. This replaces arcane school and the normal wizard’s bonus feats.
Philology: An occult philologist doesn’t cast spells in the same way that other wizards do. He writes his spells as texts on leaflets and then reads them. In many ways, leaflets behave like spell scrolls, using the occult philologist’s level as the caster level. However, they don’t require the time and cost of actual spell scrolls, and can only be read by the occult philologist who wrote them.
An occult philologist can write only a certain number of leaflets of each level per day. His base daily allotment of leaflets is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus leaflets per day if he has a high Intelligence score. Writing a spell on a leaflet takes 1 minute of work- most occult philologists prepare many leaflets at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it’s not uncommon for an occult philologist to keep some (or even all) of his daily leaflet slots open so that he can prepare leaflets in the field. Using a leaflet cancels all the writing on it. Unused leaflets are cancelled after 24 hours; an occult philologist must re-prepare his leaflets every day.
An occult philologist can prepare leaflets of any spell he knows, and of his mystery spells (see below). A spell on a leaflet is “cast” by reading it, as if reading a normal spell scroll. The occult philologist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level. Creating leaflets consumes raw materials and focuses as for actual spell scrolls. If a spell has a focus requirement, the focus is used in the reading process.
Wordspell Bond: As arcane bond, except that if the occult philologist bonds with an object, this is always his spellbook. If the occult philologist bonds with a familiar, the familiar doesn’t provide the usual bonuses but is instead considered as a bonded object for purposes of spellcasting. An occult philologist’s familiar always can speak one language of his master’s choice as a supernatural ability. At 1st, 5th, 10th and 15th level, the occult philologist can add one spell from the oracle list to his list of known spells as a wizard spell of the same level. This spell must be of a level he may cast.
* New mysteries
Fluff text and new Spirits and Words mysteries coming soon!
just in case i did a poor job of drawing out the idea. i looking to make a MCA where the PC was born a Tieflings or had a sibling that was a sorcerer but did not gain any power him self. so he distills his blood to gain the power of his family. as he becomes stronger he can draw more power from it.
the problem I see with that is that very few bloodline powers are simply things like grow claws, most are ranged touch attacks and thus would make more sense to be able to apply to a bomb as a swift action.
i will try and have a complete write-up of how I see a blood alchemist done before the end of the weekend
i don't understand what your saying i look at all the bloodline powers all would would make scene with the mutagen or cognatogen. The ranged touch don't realty hurt the idea it would be more power full if you just used a cognatogen instead which might save on your bombs if you are a "mad bomber" build. so ya some blood lines would be better for serten builds but the same thing could be said about every other choice in the game
@Oceanshieldwolf: Blood Chemist dose roll off the tong better
@Raiderrpg: i don't think the scaling of the feats would be to hard to add
@Bardess - good to see you here with another MCA - this one is a nice conceptual mash, and as these two classes are classically very difficult to actually tweak abilities for (lack of level abilities) I'm not gonna get all bent out of shape on how there isn't enough going on.
I'm sure Raider can weigh in on the pros and cons of leaflets vs scrolls - this seems to be the crux of the MCA apart from some Mystery spells and revelations.
* Wordspell Bond says "if the occult philologist bonds with an object, this is always his spellbook" - does he have a spellbook?
Just getting this straight: So then he has a spellbook, and then instead of memorising his daily spells like a vanilla Wizard he writes them on a leaflet? Ok.
* I know there isn't much wiggle room here, but the fact that his leaflets can only be read by him (and not even another Occult Philologist) I wonder if some sigil/cryptography stuff might be possible, beyond what already exists in the spell-lists - like some bonus to discerning, deciphering or disarming glyphs and symbols or Spellcraft bonus against scroll-borne spells...
* Not a huge fan of the name if only because it doesn't really evoke an adventurer at all, nor did the Friar one you posed - names are a small change though... (the same charge could be levelled at my Temple Dancer...)
@OSW
I took Philology from the Alchemy ability of the alchemist. The philologist does have a spellbook, but he must write his spells on leaflets in his own personal code, that he only can decipher and read, (this can be expanded) and then he must read the leaflets aloud to cast spells. It's much like the 2E Geometer wizard.^^
Oh hey Bardess MCA again :o
Woo!
And now onto Leaflettes...
1) It's an object, so it's going to take time to draw. Say goodbye to a move action or, with quick draw, quickened spells. Yeeeouch.
2) Can be damaged, pickpocketed, etc.
3) Imagine what being lit on fire or tossed in acid could do to these! Even just getting them wet could be a serious problem. :P
Overall, they leave you quite vulnerable.
It's the same thing with alchemist extracts, is it?
Yup. I'm just pointing it out, since OSW mentioned such.
ok first draft, though knowing me not the last.;)
Class: samurai/ ninja
HD: d10
BaB: good
Saves: fort, ref
Skills: 6 + int modifier.
Weapon proficiency: as samurai and ninja
Armor Proficiency: Light Armor and bucklers, no other shields
These warriors fill a very specialized role that warlords often need to call upon, one of subtlety and finesse. Sometimes tentative situations call for a warrior whose loyalty is not impacted by abstract concepts of honor. When these situations occur, whether poisoning enemy commanders or slipping between forces on the battlefield to stab them in the eyes, the Shogun's Shadow is ready to mete out their orders.
Order: A Shogun's Shadow typically go for the order of the hidden blade(see below), though freelance Ronin do sometimes appear from time to time.
Sneak Attack: The Shogun's Shadow gains the sneak attack class feature. They deal 1d6 at 1st level, plus an additional 1d6 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. This replaces the Mount and Mounted Archer.
Poison Use: At 2nd level The Shogun's Shadow gains the ninja's poison Use class Feature.
Ninjitsu Arts: The Shogun's Shadow train with Ninja in order to improve their killing potential. At 3rd level they gain the Ninjas Ki pool, and a single Ninja trick. They may only use this pool for the purposes of their Ninja Tricks. They gain an additional Ninja Trick every 3 levels. This replaces Weapon Expertise and Demanding Challenge.
Uncanny Dodge: At 5th level the Shogun's Shadow gains uncanny dodge. At 14th level they gain Improved Uncanny Dodge. These function exactly as the Ninja Class Features of the same name. This replaces Banner and Greater Banner.
Renewed Resolve: At 11th the Shogun's Shadow may substitute two points of his Ki pool to replenish one use of his Resolve ability. This replaces honorable stand.
Hidden Master:This functions as the Ninja ability of the same name. This replaces Last Stand.
-Edicts: A Samurai of the Hidden Blade always keeps their masters secrets. They always follow orders, even when doing so may compromise their personal views. It's difficult (though not impossible) to maintain an alignment different from their masters.
-challenge: the Samurai may add his sneak attack dice(if he has any) to the first successful strike delivered to the target of his challenge even if the opponent is not flat footed.
- hidden blade: @ lvl 2, as a swift action, the Samurai can cause an opponent to be denied their dex bonus till the end of their turn. The Samurai must have no weapon in hand at the start of their turn in order to accomplish this, but may quick draw and attack as normal after the swift action.
- assassins strike: @ lvl 8, the Samurai adds 1d6 to their normal sneak attack(or gains 1d6 if they have none), and 2d6 to the first successful blow of their challenge strike
- one with the shadows: @ lvl 15, the Samurai gains Hide in plain sight ability after the use of Their challenge strike.
Challenge Strike: the Samurai of the Hidden Blade only gets 1/2 lvl to damage vs the target of their challenge, this ability otherwise functions as the cavaliers challenge ability.
1) Challenge 1/ day, Ki pool, SA 1d6, order, resolve
2) order ability, poison use
3) ninja trick, ki pool
4) challenge 2/ day
5) SA +1d6, uncanny dodge
6) bonus feat, ninja trick
7) challenge 3/day
8) order ability
9) ninja trick, greater resolve
10) SA +1d6, challenge 4/day
11) Renewed Resolve
12) ninja trick, bonus feat
13) challenge 5/ day
14) improved uncanny dodge
15) SA +1d6, order ability, ninja trick
16) challenge 6/day
17) true resolve
18) bonus feat, ninja trick
19) challenge 7/ day
20) hidden master, SA +1d6
So where to begin?
Holy Crap! Go away for 2 days and I find 83 new posts on the thread. Lots to slog through. I'll have to take everything one at a time.
Holy Crap! Go away for 2 days and I find 83 new posts on the thread. Lots to slog through. I'll have to take everything one at a time.
I found 25 new in an hour....
I found 25 new in an hour....Holy Crap! Go away for 2 days and I find 83 new posts on the thread. Lots to slog through. I'll have to take everything one at a time.
This i why i think it might be good to have seperate threads for each MCA, reduces confusion over who is talking about which MCA. Then keep this thread for talking about MCAs in general.
This i why i think it might be good to have seperate threads for each MCA, reduces confusion over who is talking about which MCA. Then keep this thread for talking about MCAs in general.I found 25 new in an hour....Holy Crap! Go away for 2 days and I find 83 new posts on the thread. Lots to slog through. I'll have to take everything one at a time.
that could end up starting ALOT of threads, and will most likely end up merged by the moderators anyway.
Alternatively we could just ban full caster MCAs altogether. Sure would remove a lot of the "I need 27 spells at level 9/lets drop it to 5/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/1" fracas. ;p
Separate threads for MCAs doesn't sound bad actually. I mean, there're multiple threads for archetypes—they don't all get merged into a single "new archetypes" thread.
The thing I am seeing right now is that it gets confusing talking about 3-5 MCAs simultaniously, it can be hard to track exactly what is happening with the MCA you are focusing on.