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Plenty. Outside of combat, they do tasks that might be very difficult for othersThis. This in spades. Monks are support characters, not front-line fighters.What support abilities do they have?Such as? They have average skills, so they aren't doing anything special there, and their abilities are all self-only. They have good mobility by around level 5...at which point a wizard trumps them with: "I cast fly."
...in combat, they take heat off of the main fighterHow? With limited offensive capacity they will not get someone's attention from someone who can cleave them in two, and if they can it;'s at the sacrifice of defensive ability which means they won't last long.
...provide flanking...Ok, they can do that, but so can anyone else. A commoner can provide flanking. Rogues will do it better than the monk because they actually deal a lot of damage when they do. What you are basically saying is that a monk's significant contribution is to do as much as the druids monkey? Seriously?
make tactics work. They leave enemies stunned so they can be mopped up.Stunning fist don't work all that often, you know.
cue up: Other classes do that so much better!Er, well they do. They do just about EVERYTHING better than the monk, and more besides, except one: run away fast. Even then basic buff spells can cause the party to match the monk's speed save at the highest levels.
Support-wise, a bard has more and better skills, can buff everyone with bardic song, and with a variety of spells that do masses more than the monk's abilities. The bard is MADE for support. The monk...isn't. Sure, he can be very mobile and dash around the party in a crises but he can't do much when he gets there. Another class can do more on arrival, and perhaps prevent the crises in the first place.
The bard is a support...
I'm glad the wizard can fly. He doesn't want to be in melee.
How can they take the heat off of the fighter? Stunning fist, maybe? Grapple maybe? Trip a guy and run to the next? It depends on how the monk is built.
A monk can safely run across the entire field of battle, avoiding being hit, to provide flanking where it's needed. Not everyone can do that...especially safely.
Stunning fist doesn't always work, but if it's your big thing, it can work pretty often.
Lastly...the one thing those others can't do...is be a monk. Some people want to play monks. *shrug* I won't argue this class is better at this, that class is better at that stuff...people who play monks want to play monks, not bards, or inquisitors, or fighters...or whatever.
I currently have a player playing a monk in a game I DM.
He is pretty experienced, but god, he is so MUCH weaker than everyone else in the group, it is embarrassing...
The AP is high powered, with 25 point build, which should help the monk a bit.
But god is it pitiful...as soon as I have any DR on a monster he barely bypass it, if at all!
His AC is currently (level 8) 2 to 3 point lower than everyone else, his save are decent though, his stunning fist land once in a blue moon, as well as his combat maneuvers, his HP are average and has very few skills...
As a DM I try my best to make him feel useful, but it is really freaking hard, I am considering telling him to re-roll and add an archetype, or simply switch class, because as everyone is leveling up, it is just getting worse.
Honestly I think the next time I will start a game, I ll simply say: Monk are forbidden because they suck too much at everything.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Mod.It's just...I get very tired of being insulted...and then having the insulter aghast that I dared respond in turn. That's pathetic.
I actually don't mean to taunt, just to make the point that the boards are rife with that sort of behavior.
If you have questions, concerns, or issues with a moderation decision, you're free to PM any of us. This thread, however, is not the appropriate place for discussion about moderation decisions.
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If you have questions, concerns, or issues with a moderation decision, you're free to PM any of us. This thread, however, is not the appropriate place for discussion about moderation decisions.Do not taunt Happy Fun Mod.It's just...I get very tired of being insulted...and then having the insulter aghast that I dared respond in turn. That's pathetic.
I actually don't mean to taunt, just to make the point that the boards are rife with that sort of behavior.
No problems. Thank you for the reply. :)
Agreed. It's got problems with MAD...and to make an effective monk, you really have to decide how...and be prepared to do what you weren't actually prepared to do.I want to play a monk.
But the monk class makes that really difficult to pull off.
Which is awkward. To play a good monk you need to... not be a monk?
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I currently have a player playing a monk in a game I DM.
He is pretty experienced, but god, he is so MUCH weaker than everyone else in the group, it is embarrassing...
The AP is high powered, with 25 point build, which should help the monk a bit.
But god is it pitiful...as soon as I have any DR on a monster he barely bypass it, if at all!
His AC is currently (level 8) 2 to 3 point lower than everyone else, his save are decent though, his stunning fist land once in a blue moon, as well as his combat maneuvers, his HP are average and has very few skills...
As a DM I try my best to make him feel useful, but it is really freaking hard, I am considering telling him to re-roll and add an archetype, or simply switch class, because as everyone is leveling up, it is just getting worse.
Honestly I think the next time I will start a game, I ll simply say: Monk are forbidden because they suck too much at everything.
What's his build like? Is he at all specialized?
Note: Everyone seems to think I'm championing the monk as being powerful. I'm not. Still, they aren't utterly meaningless...they are playable.
One of the biggest problem is how MAD they are...more points doesn't help all that much, as the bar rises for everyone...
Commoners are playable by certain standards.
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Which is awkward. To play a good monk you need to... not be a monk?Agreed. It's got problems with MAD...and to make an effective monk, you really have to decide how...and be prepared to do what you weren't actually prepared to do.I want to play a monk.
But the monk class makes that really difficult to pull off.
Meh...it's playable...they have *some* awesome abilities...but trying to out-do any particular class is not going to be the thing to do.
I currently have a player playing a monk in a game I DM.
He is pretty experienced, but god, he is so MUCH weaker than everyone else in the group, it is embarrassing...
The AP is high powered, with 25 point build, which should help the monk a bit.
But god is it pitiful...as soon as I have any DR on a monster he barely bypass it, if at all!
His AC is currently (level 8) 2 to 3 point lower than everyone else, his save are decent though, his stunning fist land once in a blue moon, as well as his combat maneuvers, his HP are average and has very few skills...
As a DM I try my best to make him feel useful, but it is really freaking hard, I am considering telling him to re-roll and add an archetype, or simply switch class, because as everyone is leveling up, it is just getting worse.
Honestly I think the next time I will start a game, I ll simply say: Monk are forbidden because they suck too much at everything.
Don't forget monk errata
At 7th level, a monk's unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, so long as he has at least 1 point remaining in his ki pool.
That should help some DR problems.
I thought a quick fix for the monk would be to allow DEX mod to add to to-hit rolls and WIS mod to ad to damage rolls in addition to strength. You could throw this into an amulet of mighty fist he picks up as a "custom item"
For AC problems I recommend bracers of armor. It overrides the one of the monks class features but could catch him up to AC and arcane casters would only get a minor benefit.
This is the throw money at the problem solution. It works for fighters too.
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Thank you. :)Not yet, but I will 8P*sigh*
Did anybody even look at my drunken master? :p
+11/+11/+11/+6/+6
3((10.5*.55)+(10.5*.55*.05))+2((10.5*.3)+(10.5*.3*.05)) = 24.8026
AC lags slightly behind the other builds and DPR is much lower. High CMB and highest CMD of any build on this thread to date. Can quickly end a fight with grapple. Good all around saving throws, though not the best. Ability to generate unlimited ki allows sustained ki abilities, including unlimited self healing. Fastest move speed to date. Multiple maneuvers + stunning fist available for battlefield controll.
Don't purchase the +2 Amulet of Natural armor or +2 ring of Protection at this level. There are more cost efficient means of raising AC.
Don't purchase the flail, while you may have a racial proficiency, you cannot flurry with it.
This build would be better served with monk's robes, an amulet of mighty fists, power attack and weapon focus(unarmed).
druken_master_8
Half-Orc Monk (Drunken Master) 8
LG Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 20, flat-footed 18 (+2 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 59 (8d8+16)
Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +10
Defensive Abilities evasion, orc ferocity (1/day)
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Offense
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Speed 50 ft.
Melee flurry of blows +11/+11/+11/+6/+6 (2d6+10+1d6(acid)/x2)
Special Attacks flurry of blows +6/+6/+1/+1, ki strike, cold iron/silver, ki strike, magic
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Statistics
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Str 20, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 8
Base Atk +6; CMB +13 (+15 Bull Rushing, +15 Grappling); CMD 33 (35 vs. Bull Rush, 35 vs. Grapple)
Feats Defensive Combat Training, Deflect Arrows, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack -2/+4, Stunning Fist (9/day) (DC 18), Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike)
Traits Bullied, Child of the Streets
Skills Acrobatics +13 (+21 jump, +21 to jump), Climb +9, Escape Artist +6, Intimidate +5, Perception +15, Sleight of Hand +10, Stealth +13, Swim +9; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ ac bonus +7, drunken ki, fast movement (+20'), high jump, ki defense, ki pool, maneuver training, slow fall 40', stunning fist (stun, fatigue, sicken), unarmed strike (2d6), wholeness of body
Combat Gear Deliquescent gloves; Other Gear Amulet of mighty fists +1, Belt of giant strength +2, Feather step slippers, Headband of inspired wisdom +2, Monk's robe, Ring of protection +1, 150 GP
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Special Abilities
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AC Bonus +7 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Bullied +1 to hit with unarmed AoEs.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deflect Arrows Deflect an incoming arrow once per round.
Deliquescent gloves +1d6 acid dam to touch/weapon att. Natural/unarmed att is immune to ooze acid & doesn't split.
Drunken Ki (Su) Drunken Ki pool allows the use of Ki powers.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Movement (+20') The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Flurry of Blows +6/+6/+6/+1/+1 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full rd action.
High Jump (+8/+28 with Ki point) (Ex) +8 to Acrobatics checks made to jump.
Improved Bull Rush You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when bull rushing.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Defense (Su) A monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Strike, Cold Iron/Silver (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Slow Fall 40' (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Stunning Fist (9/day) (DC 18) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue, Sicken) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Unarmed Strike (2d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Wholeness of Body (8 Hp/use) (Su) Use 2 ki to heal own wounds as a standard action.
Not a fully optimized build, but I did adjust a few feats and redid the gear selection.
Flurry of Blows +11/+11/+11/+6/+6 (2d6+10+1d6(acid)/x2)
3((20.5*.55)+(17*.55*.05))+2((20.5*.3)+(17*.3*.05))=41.68
Deals roughly 75% of the damage dealt by the barbarian, slightly lower AC compared to the other builds but has a very strong CMB/CMD. Fully capable of grappling most medium humanoids, ending a fight quickly while bypassing damage. Fewer combat options bur more focused. Will deal slightly less damage against opponents with acid resistance. Unlimited self healing via temporary ki. Unlimited usage of ki for extra attacks or AC during melee via temporary ki. Low crit range, slightly lower to-hit and no 2-handed option are the sources of reduces damage compared to other builds.
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I currently have a player playing a monk in a game I DM.
He is pretty experienced, but god, he is so MUCH weaker than everyone else in the group, it is embarrassing...
The AP is high powered, with 25 point build, which should help the monk a bit.
But god is it pitiful...as soon as I have any DR on a monster he barely bypass it, if at all!
His AC is currently (level 8) 2 to 3 point lower than everyone else, his save are decent though, his stunning fist land once in a blue moon, as well as his combat maneuvers, his HP are average and has very few skills...
As a DM I try my best to make him feel useful, but it is really freaking hard, I am considering telling him to re-roll and add an archetype, or simply switch class, because as everyone is leveling up, it is just getting worse.
Honestly I think the next time I will start a game, I ll simply say: Monk are forbidden because they suck too much at everything.
Don't forget monk errata
At 7th level, a monk's unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, so long as he has at least 1 point remaining in his ki pool.
That should help some DR problems.
I thought a quick fix for the monk would be to allow DEX mod to add to to-hit rolls and WIS mod to ad to damage rolls in addition to strength. You could throw this into an amulet of mighty fist he picks up as a "custom item"
For AC problems I recommend bracers of armor. It overrides the one of the monks class features but could catch him up to AC and arcane casters would only get a minor benefit.
This is the throw money at the problem solution. It works for fighters too.
What do bracers override?
Commoners are playable by certain standards.I suppose.
Not a one of them can leap onto the roof with ease, though. *shrug*
Depends on the size of your roof. +20 is only 5 extra feet on a high jump. Jumping on roofs usually isn't great for combat either, and out of combat you have things like grappling hooks and rope.
What do bracers override?
In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
AC bonuses do not stack... Although this seems to be untyped... hmmmmm
If armor AC bonuses are "armor AC bonuses" and not an "AC bonus"
hmmmm
hmmmm
Why does it seem wrong that they should stack?
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Thank you. :)Not yet, but I will 8P*sigh*
Did anybody even look at my drunken master? :p
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
Gloves are very interesting...hmmm...
Mind you, other than the trait, he's really not all about the unarmed attack...his real kick is grapple. He can out-grapple giants...at medium size. :)
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What do bracers override?In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
AC bonuses do not stack... Although this seems to be untyped... hmmmmm
If armor AC bonuses are "armor AC bonuses" and not an "AC bonus"
hmmmm
hmmmmWhy does it seem wrong that they should stack?
They do, by my knowledge.
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What do bracers override?In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
AC bonuses do not stack... Although this seems to be untyped... hmmmmm
If armor AC bonuses are "armor AC bonuses" and not an "AC bonus"
hmmmm
hmmmmWhy does it seem wrong that they should stack?
AC bonus is untyped, it stacks with anything that doesn't override it. Mage Armor spell and Bracers of Armor work.
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They do, by my knowledge.What do bracers override?In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
AC bonuses do not stack... Although this seems to be untyped... hmmmmm
If armor AC bonuses are "armor AC bonuses" and not an "AC bonus"
hmmmm
hmmmmWhy does it seem wrong that they should stack?
The bonuses are untyped and apply even while flat-footed. They stack.
Don't forget monk errataAt 7th level, a monk's unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, so long as he has at least 1 point remaining in his ki pool.
That should help some DR problems.
I thought a quick fix for the monk would be to allow DEX mod to add to to-hit rolls and WIS mod to ad to damage rolls in addition to strength. You could throw this into an amulet of mighty fist he picks up as a "custom item"
For AC problems I recommend bracers of armor. It overrides the one of the monks class features but could catch him up to AC and arcane casters would only get a minor benefit.
This is the throw money at the problem solution. It works for fighters too.
He is not really specialized, I mean, in what can he specialize really?
As for the DR we use the errata, but no use against DR/Good or DR/_ or even DR/Slashing
But yes, I might have to "throw money at the problem" indeed, I already gave him a custom feat to add his dext to damage.
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Depends on the size of your roof. +20 is only 5 extra feet on a high jump. Jumping on roofs usually isn't great for combat either, and out of combat you have things like grappling hooks and rope.Commoners are playable by certain standards.I suppose.
Not a one of them can leap onto the roof with ease, though. *shrug*
Well, jumping onto a roof can be the decider in combat, actually...but that was just something I grabbed. How about...commoners can never do more damage than a greatsword with their bare hands...or...commoners can never avoid a fireball centered in their square completely...or a dozen other things...
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Don't forget monk errataAt 7th level, a monk's unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, so long as he has at least 1 point remaining in his ki pool.
That should help some DR problems.
I thought a quick fix for the monk would be to allow DEX mod to add to to-hit rolls and WIS mod to ad to damage rolls in addition to strength. You could throw this into an amulet of mighty fist he picks up as a "custom item"
For AC problems I recommend bracers of armor. It overrides the one of the monks class features but could catch him up to AC and arcane casters would only get a minor benefit.
This is the throw money at the problem solution. It works for fighters too.
He is not really specialized, I mean, in what can he specialize really?
As for the DR we use the errata, but no use against DR/Good or DR/_ or even DR/Slashing
But yes, I might have to "throw money at the problem" indeed, I already gave him a custom feat to add his dext to damage.
That monk I built is a grappling specialist. There are those that specialize in stunning fist...there are all sorts of possibilities...including just raw damage.
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As for the DR we use the errata, but no use against DR/Good or DR/_ or even DR/Slashing
Everyone will have the DR/_ problem, DR/Good can be overcome with a Holy Amulet of MF, no enhancement bonus needed if he can't afford it. DR/Slashing can be overridden with Boar Style, which is a good way to add bonus damage to unarmed monks anyway.
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Mind you, other than the trait, he's really not all about the unarmed attack...his real kick is grapple. He can out-grapple giants...at medium size. :)I noted the ability to grapple. It would be the primary tactic for the build, not raw damage.
Yup. A hill giant stands almost no chance against him...at 8th level, he stands a pretty decent chance with a frost giant. :)
We had a thread on how under/overpowered commoners were already today. I was joking, it doesn't help the monk at all. Was just stating playable is a relative term. Compared to 3.5 monks, PF monks are a whole lot more playable.
Its a bit of a pain when you want to play something and the best way to play it is to be something else though. "I want to play a guy who doesn't need a lot of armor and uses unarmed attacks!" "Play a fighter with Cestus!" "but there's a monk..." "Yeah... He's actually not that good at that." "..."
Holy AoMF is expensive. Bless weapon is my friend!
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We had a thread on how under/overpowered commoners were already today. I was joking, it doesn't help the monk at all. Was just stating playable is a relative term. Compared to 3.5 monks, PF monks are a whole lot more playable.
Its a bit of a pain when you want to play something and the best way to play it is to be something else though. "I want to play a guy who doesn't need a lot of armor and uses unarmed attacks!" "Play a fighter with Cestus!" "but there's a monk..." "Yeah... He's actually not that good at that." "..."
Holy AoMF is expensive. Bless weapon is my friend!
Fighters out-fight monks. I've known that for a long time. It's all a matter of what you really want...if it's a fighting style...that's one thing...if it's a MONK...well...you play a monk.
Incidentally, it was in 3.5 that I saw a monk save the whole party from certain doom...by stunning a rather large...dragon...that was casually eating our lunches.
Well why would I want a monk is the next question then I guess? If fighters out fight them and so on.
Incidentally, it was in 3.5 that I saw a monk save the whole party from certain doom...by stunning a rather large...dragon...that was casually eating our lunches.
With his 3/4 BAB he has to hit the dragon and then the dragon has to fail a fortitude save. There is always a 1 in 400 chance that this will happen. It doesn't save the 3.5 monk from being made of flurry of misses, nor the change the fact it was a regular suggestion to play a swordsage instead.
Well why would I want a monk is the next question then I guess? If fighters out fight them and so on.And there's your answer. If you aren't into monks, you really have no reason to. *shrug*
If you're looking for a powerhouse, it's not them.
I'm not looking for a powerhouse. That's avoiding the question I think.
I'm feeling like some number crunching tonight. So we'll see what I come up with for an 8th level core monk no archtype build with other paizo books in the mix.
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The reason to play a monk is because of the cool factor. You play a monk if you want to be like Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Chuck Norris, Michelle Yeoh, Chow Yun Fat, Cynthia Rothrock, Zhang Zi-Yi, or David Carradine. The problem is the mechanics of the class stop you from actually living up to the awesomeness of Wuxia/Martial arts film.
A Monk can be effective enough to contribute with a high level of system mastery, but will not be better or equal to than any other class unless you either multi-class or take an archetype that moves you away from the unarmed fighter concept. If you do not have the high level of system mastery needed, then you will be inadequate compared to mid range builds of any other martial class.
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Please feel free to use archetypes.
I don't care how much system mastery it needs, I want to see a good monk. And I don't mean fighter good. I mean good good.
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I'm not looking for a powerhouse. That's avoiding the question I think.Well why would I want a monk is the next question then I guess? If fighters out fight them and so on.And there's your answer. If you aren't into monks, you really have no reason to. *shrug*
If you're looking for a powerhouse, it's not them.
Not at all. If you want a class that's a top end fighter, play a fighter...a barbarian...or maybe a paladin or a ranger. Monks are for players that want to play monks. If they were top-end fighters AND could do all the stuff that monks do, they'd be overpowered.
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Incidentally, it was in 3.5 that I saw a monk save the whole party from certain doom...by stunning a rather large...dragon...that was casually eating our lunches.With his 3/4 BAB he has to hit the dragon and then the dragon has to fail a fortitude save. There is always a 1 in 400 chance that this will happen. It doesn't save the 3.5 monk from being made of flurry of misses, nor the change the fact it was a regular suggestion to play a swordsage instead.
Well...he didn't have too much trouble hitting the dragon. I don't know what it needed to make the save. It was better than 1 in 400.
Not at all. If you want a class that's a top end fighter, play a fighter...a barbarian...or maybe a paladin or a ranger. Monks are for players that want to play monks. If they were top-end fighters AND could do all the stuff that monks do, they'd be overpowered.I'm not looking for a powerhouse. That's avoiding the question I think.Well why would I want a monk is the next question then I guess? If fighters out fight them and so on.And there's your answer. If you aren't into monks, you really have no reason to. *shrug*
If you're looking for a powerhouse, it's not them.
And what is this stuff they can do? They are not very good at fighting and they are not very good at skills either. They can be decent scouts, but that's it, and scouting is probably the role most easily covered. They don't have spells or similarly useful abilities, just a bunch of random class features that are not all that useful...
Not at all. If you want a class that's a top end fighter, play a fighter...a barbarian...or maybe a paladin or a ranger. Monks are for players that want to play monks. If they were top-end fighters AND could do all the stuff that monks do, they'd be overpowered.
Back to my original question, why would I want to play a monk?
Not at all. If you want a class that's a top end fighter, play a fighter...a barbarian...or maybe a paladin or a ranger. Monks are for players that want to play monks. If they were top-end fighters AND could do all the stuff that monks do, they'd be overpowered.Back to my original question, why would I want to play a monk?
You could theoretically just get Expeditious Retreat permenancy'd for 2500 gold and have more or the same amount of additional mobility as the Monk until level 12... on top of having useful class features.
You mean... That same move speed that stops Monks from flurrying, making them even more useless?
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Not at all. If you want a class that's a top end fighter, play a fighter...a barbarian...or maybe a paladin or a ranger. Monks are for players that want to play monks. If they were top-end fighters AND could do all the stuff that monks do, they'd be overpowered.Back to my original question, why would I want to play a monk?
You don't.
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And what is this stuff they can do? They are not very good at fighting and they are not very good at skills either. They can be decent scouts, but that's it, and scouting is probably the role most easily covered. They don't have spells or similarly useful abilities, just a bunch of random class features that are not all that useful...Not at all. If you want a class that's a top end fighter, play a fighter...a barbarian...or maybe a paladin or a ranger. Monks are for players that want to play monks. If they were top-end fighters AND could do all the stuff that monks do, they'd be overpowered.I'm not looking for a powerhouse. That's avoiding the question I think.Well why would I want a monk is the next question then I guess? If fighters out fight them and so on.And there's your answer. If you aren't into monks, you really have no reason to. *shrug*
If you're looking for a powerhouse, it's not them.
*shrug*...If you want the answer, look at the class. I'm not here to be some sort of monk advocate.
You mean... That same move speed that stops Monks from flurrying, making them even more useless?
No it's the same speed, but instead of that speed being in your legs it's in your fists!
Monks are underpowered then? I guess... I don't know what's being said, but I think monks are an iffy class.
You mean... That same move speed that stops Monks from flurrying, making them even more useless?Way I hear it, you're supposed to use your movement to get into flurry position on targets other characters can't.
Ideally your stunning fist is suppose to lock them down until you can flurry.
If only the DC went up when you used it as a single attacks instead of part of a flurry.