Ranged Paladin Builds


Advice


I've been doing some research around the interwebs and I found two recommended builds for ranged Paladins for 25-point point-buy. I am curious to know everyone's thoughts on the two sets of stats:

1.) STR 14 DEX 17 CON 14 INT 7 WIS 7 CHA 16

AND

2.) STR 9 DEX 18 CON 10 INT 10 WIS 7 CHA 17

I am truly baffled by the second one and I am wondering if anyone can elaborate on what merits it may have over the first (if any).


2) seems to be aimed at more casting when at higher levels, more lay one hands and the 30 second work day. That 9 STR means the person who came up with it is expecting to use smite with most attacks and the 17 CHR is a sure sign that CHR is intended to get attribute points during leveling.

I would imagine that 2) would have an advantage in single target combats where the the paladin is doing double duty as a healer or something, but really cannot see it as being as effective as 1).


build 2 looks like a gun build to me, build 1 is an archer build.

Build 2 could be great with gunslinger5/paladin X. Or you could go straight Paladin with the Holy Gun Archetype.


A gun build with a 7 WIS? I thought of that, but 7 WIS is not a good idea for a gun build.

Dark Archive

I've always thought the idea of a ranged paladin to be pretty lame. Nothing is braver than hiding behind a wizards skirt pew pew pewing.


you could still go holy gun or use the Extra Grit feat to bump up your grit pool. I didn't suggest the statline, but it could work I think.

Lantern Lodge

If memory serves correct the mysterious stranger archetype uses cha instead of wis for there grit pull so the 5 levels of that would make a good combo.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Holy gun is actually a trap, and not so useful. I had more success building a Divine Hunter Paladin/Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger. Works together reasonably well.

Liberty's Edge

Mysterious stranger looses the dex to damage so it would be a 1 level dip of gunslinger (mysterious stranger) and 19 of paladin (probably oath of vengeance). However, I think a 5 level dip of gunslinger / 15 levels of paladin would be better.

As to the 7 wisdom and grit, you know what the difference in grit is between a 7 wisdom and a 13? Absolutely nothing. Zip, zilch, nada, not a single solitary point. It would require an investment of 9 build points to get a single extra point of grit and that is just a horrible investment.

And for the love of all that's holy, stay away from holy gun. Mechanically, it is just a bad BAD archetype (probably the worst paladin archetype in the game, and one of the worst archetypes in general), and it has no flavor to it that you can't get from a combination of gunslinger and paladin while still being mechanically sound. (People really shouldn't be suggesting it as good advice.)

Now as to the first set, I loathe dumping intelligence for a class that's skill starved, so I probably wouldn't go with that even for an archer, but that's just me.


whats wrong with holy gun out of curiosity? I had a player play one in one of my games and he did just fine.


ShadowcatX wrote:

Mysterious stranger looses the dex to damage so it would be a 1 level dip of gunslinger (mysterious stranger) and 19 of paladin (probably oath of vengeance). However, I think a 5 level dip of gunslinger / 15 levels of paladin would be better.

As to the 7 wisdom and grit, you know what the difference in grit is between a 7 wisdom and a 13? Absolutely nothing. Zip, zilch, nada, not a single solitary point. It would require an investment of 9 build points to get a single extra point of grit and that is just a horrible investment.

And for the love of all that's holy, stay away from holy gun. Mechanically, it is just a bad BAD archetype (probably the worst paladin archetype in the game, and one of the worst archetypes in general), and it has no flavor to it that you can't get from a combination of gunslinger and paladin while still being mechanically sound. (People really shouldn't be suggesting it as good advice.)

Now as to the first set, I loathe dumping intelligence for a class that's skill starved, so I probably wouldn't go with that even for an archer, but that's just me.

Taking a 7 WIS makes it impossible to gain grit from a headband, while a 10 WIS can become a 16 WIS with a +6 headband(I personally rate 12 WIS as the sweet spot between build points & cost of magic items). Yes Holy Gun is awful. Mysterious stranger might work, but I really, really hate losing the quick clear deed from a one level dip.


awp832 wrote:
whats wrong with holy gun out of curiosity? I had a player play one in one of my games and he did just fine.

Divine hunter gives you precise shot with no pre-req, but I think holy gun would work fine. I agree with awp.


vonklinen wrote:
awp832 wrote:
whats wrong with holy gun out of curiosity? I had a player play one in one of my games and he did just fine.
Divine hunter gives you precise shot with no pre-req, but I think holy gun would work fine. I agree with awp.

Holy gun have a really nerfed version of smite evil.


Aarontendo wrote:
I've always thought the idea of a ranged paladin to be pretty lame. Nothing is braver than hiding behind a wizards skirt pew pew pewing.

I agree that using a Wizard as a human shield is something a Paladin would never do. Neither would she be likely to attack from cover, concealment, invisibility, or stealth.

Did you have an opinion on the differences between the two builds?

Dark Archive

foot land-raker wrote:
Aarontendo wrote:
I've always thought the idea of a ranged paladin to be pretty lame. Nothing is braver than hiding behind a wizards skirt pew pew pewing.

I agree that using a Wizard as a human shield is something a Paladin would never do. Neither would she be likely to attack from cover, concealment, invisibility, or stealth.

Did you have an opinion on the differences between the two builds?

Not really. Bad memories of my rogue being the only one in melee because the Knight of Solamnia decided to go archer build. Go forth brave warrior.

I've long thought that the idea of being a ranged paladin was just munchkinism.


Not so much munchkinism as it pretty swell. The only stats you really need are strength, dex, and charisma. Congratulations, you're a weird monk.

Smiting arrows are pretty ridiculous, which is just downright awesome, because you can smite evil from a pretty good distance. Mind you most paladins do it in up close and personal fights, but the casual ranged paladin takes a different approach that works just as well.

Smite Evil > Deadly Aim > Chuck Testa

You've got a pretty good damage source right there, and you're not even level 2 yet. Mind you, I have no idea where you obtained an artifact like Chuck Testa, but still. The only stipulation, really, on ranged paladins is that they're not supposed to be talkers, despite their massive charisma score. These are the kinds of paladins that intentionally hang back, or stand up and draw their arrow, waiting on combat to start while also making their prescense known.

That being said, a ranged paladin shouldn't only be ranged, as that'll be the death of anyone that isn't a primary bow ranger with the acrobatics checks to do so.

So let's see, level 2, a composite longbow of +3 strength, Deadly aim, Channel Smite, Smite Evil, that's sitting any undead down rather quickly, and if you, for some reason, are an antipaladin, that's really going to hurt everything. Barring the fact that I believe Paladins and Antipaladins are allowed to be their class if they're just good aligned, not chaotic or lawful. (I like Lawful Evil Antipaladins. Bite me.)

Still, looking at it, while it might not be the most optimized, "Haha take that dm, your boss is dead in the surprise round" kind of character, it's still crunchy enough to be useful and make for plenty good roleplay, as it should be.


Aarontendo wrote:
foot land-raker wrote:
Aarontendo wrote:
I've always thought the idea of a ranged paladin to be pretty lame. Nothing is braver than hiding behind a wizards skirt pew pew pewing.

I agree that using a Wizard as a human shield is something a Paladin would never do. Neither would she be likely to attack from cover, concealment, invisibility, or stealth.

Did you have an opinion on the differences between the two builds?

Not really. Bad memories of my rogue being the only one in melee because the Knight of Solamnia decided to go archer build. Go forth brave warrior.

I've long thought that the idea of being a ranged paladin was just munchkinism.

No offense, but I always thought this was a narrow-minded generalization. If you're a halfling paladin, what's a more effective way of fighting evil? Playing to your strengths, or wading into melee and having your ass handed to you? Agree that using a human shield, and maybe invisibility and stealth aren't really complementary to being a paladin, but why would cover and concealment be any different than having defensive spells cast on you or even wearing armor? They're both ways to not get hit. Maybe every paladin should walk around in a basic set of clothes, punching evil in the head.

Making a reflex save is for sissies, all paladins should choose to fail all saves and take the brunt of every attack, because it's more brave!

Liberty's Edge

awp832 wrote:
whats wrong with holy gun out of curiosity? I had a player play one in one of my games and he did just fine.

Your group might have had a low level of optimization. The truth is holy gun gives up the single most powerful offensive ability a martial character can get, smite evil, in exchange for getting, well not much, and certainly nothing comparable.

But seriously, draw up a holy gun at level 5 and a mysterious stranger 1 / paladin 4, and look at them side by side. They'll have the same flavor, but the holy gun will have smite evil, it will have good gunslinger deeds (including focused aim!), and it will have grit determined off of charisma rather than wisdom. The holy gun meanwhile will have a single level better spell casting and will have divine bond a level sooner. That's it.

Even better, the gunslinger / paladin can use oath of vengeance to get more uses of smite evil, or can go with divine hunter to get free precise shot.

cnetarian wrote:
Taking a 7 WIS makes it impossible to gain grit from a headband, while a 10 WIS can become a 16 WIS with a +6 headband(I personally rate 12 WIS as the sweet spot between build points & cost of magic items). Yes Holy Gun is awful. Mysterious stranger might work, but I really, really hate losing the quick clear deed from a one level dip.

For a paladin you are definitely going to focus on getting a charisma head band first, and you'll want that as good as you can make it. After you've got it maxed out, then you can plan to either add intelligence or wisdom to it (and there's a relatively good case for both, if you have 10+ wisdom) but the thing is, by that time you're what, level 14 ish? You've spent over half your career with a gimped build so that later on in your career you can have a couple extra points of grit (which may not even be good enough to choose the wisdom head band over the intelligence headband).

That said, mysterious stranger may not be the best option, maybe just having 1 point of grit and saving it for an emergency quick clear would be better. I can't swear one way or the other. I personally would probably go with mysterious stranger.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My PFS paladin/gunslinger (who is only level 3) went with muskets, just to try something different. Not as optimised for later levels, but seems to work just fine at lower levels. The extra damage from the Mysterious Stranger, combined with the touch attacks and free precise shot from Divine Hunter mean I still tend to do constantly good damage. Things will likely change when I qualify for iterative attacks, since I won't be able to do that with a musket.

If I had had any prior experience, I would likely have gone with pistols for the mysterious stranger, or else gone with musket master archetype for the Gunslinger. Both would allow iterative attacks at later levels.

The other issue at lower levels is that you WILL end up in melee. This means you often can't reload, or have to swap to a melee weapon. I can't do it in PFS, but an option in regular games would be using a musket axe. Smaller damage die, but a little more flexibility.

The other issue I've run into is DR - bless weapon doesn't actually work on missile weapons, so having an oil of magic weapon on hand is a good idea.

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