let me see your posts before I post mine
There are also plenty of threads that have very powerful and broken builds. It would probably be best to check those out first.
The guides to the builds thread, ravingdorks characters thread, the op thread of which there are many.
I don't consider ANY of my characters broken, nor really 'optimized' insomuch as optimization means disregarding character background or even common sense to make the most powerful character possible. Having said that, my characters tend to be more powerful, or perhaps more efficiently built than anyone I play with.
My 20 favorites:
Human 2nd level Unbreakable Fighter / 18th level Urban Barbarian & Invulnerable Rager
Human 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 15th level Brawler / 3rd level Transmuter
Human 18th level Knifemaster / 2nd level Transmuter
Human 16th level Thug & Scout / 4th level Weaponmaster (Earthbreaker)
Human 20th level Weaponmaster (Bardiche)
Human 7th level Weaponmaster (Bow) / 3rd level Transmuter / 10th level Eldritch Knight
Human 20th level Zen Archer
Dwarven 20th level Infiltrator
Tiefling 1st level Oracle (lore) / 19th level Paladin (Oath of Vengeance, Oath against Fiends)
Aasimar 11th level Holy Gun / 9th level Mysterious Stranger
Aasimar 16th level Dervish of Dawn / 4th level Weaponmaster (Scimitar)
Human 20th level Arcane Duelist
Halfling 18th level Archeologist / 2nd level Halfling Opportunist
Human 12th level Sorcerer (Draconic) / 8th level Dragon Diciple
Elven 20th level Void Mage & Spellbinder
Kitsune 1st level Oracle (Nature) / 19th level Sorcerer (Fey/Sylvan)
Half-Elven 20th level Master Summoner
Half-Elven 19th level Summoner / 1st level Dragoon
Dwarven 20th level Evangelist (Madness)
Human 20th level Gravewalker
I don't consider ANY of my characters broken, nor really 'optimized' insomuch as optimization means disregarding character background or even common sense to make the most powerful character possible. Having said that, my characters tend to be more powerful, or perhaps more efficiently built than anyone I play with. I also serve as the local 'build guy', helping players in my party and at the local game shop turn their mor eoutlandish ideas into an effective reality... ah, fantasy.
My 20 favorites:
Human 2nd level Unbreakable Fighter / 18th level Urban Barbarian & Invulnerable Rager
Human 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 15th level Brawler / 3rd level Transmuter
Human 18th level Knifemaster / 2nd level Transmuter
Human 16th level Thug & Scout / 4th level Weaponmaster (Earthbreaker)
Human 20th level Weaponmaster (Bardiche)
Human 7th level Weaponmaster (Bow) / 3rd level Transmuter / 10th level Eldritch Knight
Human 20th level Zen Archer
Dwarven 20th level Infiltrator
Tiefling 1st level Oracle (lore) / 19th level Paladin (Oath of Vengeance, Oath against Fiends)
Aasimar 11th level Holy Gun / 9th level Mysterious Stranger
Aasimar 16th level Dervish of Dawn / 4th level Weaponmaster (Scimitar)
Human 20th level Arcane Duelist
Halfling 18th level Archeologist / 2nd level Halfling Opportunist
Human 12th level Sorcerer (Draconic) / 8th level Dragon Diciple
Elven 20th level Void Mage & Spellbinder
Kitsune 1st level Oracle (Nature) / 19th level Sorcerer (Fey/Sylvan)
Half-Elven 20th level Master Summoner
Half-Elven 19th level Summoner / 1st level Dragoon
Dwarven 20th level Evangelist (Madness)
Human 20th level Gravewalker
+15 charisma? jesus christ.
note: that succubus better be your bestest BFF forever, because she can revoke that profane bonus as a free action and maim your charisma (2d6 cha drain, no save), and she can abuse the hell out of her suggestion ability that she can now use on you whenever she wants.
also, getting wishes/books for +5 cha would probably happen after a given campaign has completed, so that usually wouldn't apply.
still, even ~10? from just base (with racial)/age/levels/enhancement is still pretty solid.
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Sorc and Oracles using Paragon Surge to spont. cast the entire sorc/wiz spell list and the entire cleric/oracle *AND* sorc/wiz spell lists, respectively. Both use the spell to gain Expanded Arcana for access to their own entire spell list. Oracles can further take Eldritch Heritage (arcane bloodline) so that with the spell they can take Imp. Eldritch Heritage. The 9th level bloodline power of arcane bloodline is to gain spell(s) from the sorc/wiz spell list to your list of spells known...
Using Samsaran's Mystic Past Life to nab spells for 9-level casters at up to 3 spell levels early from the 6-level caster lists, especially summoner.
Anything involving Mystic Past Life, actually...
A beautiful synergy of various overpowered feats, the geysermancer.
blackblood my gnome colorsprayer is mighty broken.
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I really wish people wouldn't post level 20 builds in these threads. Almost no one ever plays at level 20.
Having a character build explaining what makes a build good at level 5, and then 10 and 15 would be a whole lot more useful to people, and be more relevant to most campaigns than a 20th level block of math.
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Angol built himself a sentient stone golem that smashes creatures of much higher CR.
Araonna Chorster controls hundreds of hit dice of powerful undead.
Helegur has an army of simulacrums, which she can make for free.
Nudel can deal 310 damage, in one melee attack, automatically, all the time.
Roshgog is capable of doing hundreds of damage to multiple enemies each round.
Sela Kurn can automatically dispel the spells of equal-leveled spellcasters, while also simultaneously stunning and debuffing them.
Seregon can beat the Tarrasque, in melee.
Shioji has ungodly high saves.
Yiankun can force two saves against DC 34, fail one, and you're petrified.
This is but a fraction of the wonders to be found within RAVINGDORK'S CRAZY CHARACTER EMPORIUM. :D
gnome sorcerer pfs
Level 7 sorcerer 1 dual curse oracle
revs misfortune, awesome display
Cha 28
feats focused, Threnodic Spell
Arcane bloodline
Dc 10+9(cha)+1 (spell level)+1(bloodline using MM)+2 focused+1 spell focus+1 gnome+1great spell focus
I use a wand of persistence with misfortune. That means 3 will saves dc 25. If you are over 13 level you get stunned for 1 turn. Else you are sitting the fight out most likely.
Awesome Display (Su): Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, dumbfounding all who behold them. Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).
If anyone has suggestions to break this worse I am all ears
I really wish people wouldn't post level 20 builds in these threads. Almost no one ever plays at level 20.
Having a character build explaining what makes a build good at level 5, and then 10 and 15 would be a whole lot more useful to people, and be more relevant to most campaigns than a 20th level block of math.
Agreed. Every one of my builds is playable from level 1 and none of them require specific magic items in order to function. Those are the two most important criteria of any build I put together.
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I find this claim dubious at best. He has no Freedom of Movement and so he'll just get grappled and swallowed. His stunning Assault is auto-succeeded against. He doesn't have a light slashing or piercing weapon to cut his way out nor does he have a Wish to finish Mr. T off with. Care to explain how he overcomes these?
The Tarrasque cannot hit him on anything but a 20. He must have Seregon grappled to Swallow Whole and does not have Improved Grapple or Grab, so he provokes an AoO if he tries. Seregon hits him on a 2 or better and applies a minimum -10 penalty to the Tarrasque's grapple attempt, bringing him to, at best, +47 versus Seregon's 69 CMD vs grapple.
I'm a little unsure of his action economy. He has to spend a move action to animate his shield to get the hand free to wield the greatsword. That lasts for 4 rounds. Can he knock Mr.T out before his shield comes back?
Agreed. Every one of my builds is playable from level 1 and none of them require specific magic items in order to function. Those are the two most important criteria of any build I put together.
Those are good criteria, though I'm not adverse to trying to find room for a crafting feat if a build just really won't work without a certain uncommon weapon property. Having a self sufficient build is pretty important if Magic Marts aren't in the game.
Human Pal 2/Sorc (Draconic) 3/DD 4/EK 10/Sorc 1
Wearing full plate (and a heavy shield if you want), using verbal only spells (like displacement) and silent spell. Up to 8th level arcane spells, pretty high AC/saves and melee damage bigger than that of a fighter with the same fighting style (2handed or weapon/shield). Could also get high damage and AC at the same time by using quick draw and a quickdraw shield. Most effective at level 10+ but you can play him at any level.
Best thing about it: Works extremely well even if you can only use core rules.
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Edit: You seem to be using 3.5 rules for grapple. You can find the Pathfinder rules for grapple here.
The Tarrasque has a 30 foot reach meaning he is well out of reach when he attempts a grapple check against the pathetic touch AC of 22. Average roll = success and Seregon is toast.
Grapple doesn't target Touch AC, it targets CMD.
Minor nitpick: it does have Grab on its bite attack, but seeing as that won't likely hit, opting for the straight up grapple attempt is far superior. It may be too stupid to figure that out right away, but I'm run it as trying that on the second or third round.Finally, will you please explain the at minimum -10 penalty to grapple attempts he applys? I'm not familiar with that ability.
Okay, doublechecked and I missed the Grab entry on the bite. So that helps.
The -10 penalty would be from the damage Seregon dealt on his AoO. The Tarrasque will waste its charge attack or AoO on him moving in trying to bite him, which can only occur on a natural 20. If it then tries to grapple normally without Improved Grapple, it receives the AoO and cannot beat his CMD.
Why wouldn't Mr.T just 5'step back and bite/grapple?
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And my edit in! Edit Wars! :)Haha, ok, new post time.
So, let's assume Mr. T goes in and tries to bite him (which fails). Then S goes and pounds the crap out of Mr. T. On its next turn, it moves back up to 30 ft. which provokes an AoO.
Why would the Tarrasque do so? It should spend a round attempting a normal grapple attempt before realizing that won't work either. Unless you mean to say the Tarrasque is a tactical genius that instantly knows provoking an AoO will prevent it from grappling him?
Why would the Tarrasque do so? It should spend a round attempting a normal grapple attempt before realizing that won't work either. Unless you mean to say the Tarrasque is a tactical genius that instantly knows provoking an AoO will prevent it from grappling him?
Maybe it has fought humans before and knows they aren't able to swing as much when it keeps them at max melee range? So if they are closer than 30', move back to 30', attack.
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-Race / Class-
Half - Elf / Summoner (Synthesist), Paladin 2, Monk 1
-Stats with out Eidolon (25 point buy)-
STR 07 (+6 item)(-6 age) = 07
DEX 07 (+6 item)(-6 age) = 07
CON 10 (-6 age) = 04
INT 13 (+3 age) = 16
WIS 17 (+6 item)(+3 age) = 26
CHA 18 (+2 racial)(+3 age)(+5 leveling)(+6 item) = 34
-Saves with out Eidolon-
Fort = 28
Reflex = 25
Will = 40
AC = 36
Touch = 23
Flat - Foot = 28
-Stats with Eidolon-
STR 29
DEX 28
CON 13
INT 16
WIS 26
CHA 34
-Saves with Eidolon-
Fort = 32
Reflex = 37
Will = 44
AC = 72 (76 with combat expertise)
Touch = 31
Flat - Foot = 58
-Eidolon Abilities-
Base - Darkvision, Evasion, Improved Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack
Form - Biped - claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs)
Claws (x2)
limbs (arms) (x2)
Immunity (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic)
Spell Resistance (28)
Flight Su (30ft)
Improved Natural Armor (8)
Improved Damage (claws)
-Class / Feat Progression-
M 01 Dodge, Skill Focus Perception, Toughness
P O2
P 03 Combat Expertise
S 04
S 05 Extra Evolution
S 06
S 07 Combat Reflexes
S 08
S 09 Extra Evolution
S 10
S 11 Vigilant Eidolon
S 12
S 13 Extra Evolution
S 14
S 15 (insert feat here)
S 16
S 17 (insert feat here)
S 18
S 19 Extra Evolution
S 20
-Gear-
Bracers of Armor
Ring of Protection
Ring of Forcefangs
Cloak of Resistance
Amulet of Natural Armor
Headband of Mental Prowess (wis and cha)
Belt of Physical Might (str and dex)
High saves, immunities to all spell damage but positive / negative and force, and spell resistance.
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Dotting..... *rolls stealth before leaving the thread. Rolls a 5, 14 Dex...* "BYE GUYS!"
another synthesist buildWhat contingency plans do you have for Banishment/Dismissal/any other effect that removes the eidolon?
Start summoning celestial animals with pounce to smite the hell out of whatever you're fighting?
Or just cast Summon Eidolon if the effect does nothing to keep you from getting it back the same day.
(Blasphemy, etc... have that nasty clause; happened to our [non-synthesist] summoner's eidolon... player spent a round whining about being useless, then I suggested summoning in some celestial tigers and the 3 obtained proceeded to completely destroy the BBEG the next 2 rounds, doing more damage in those rounds than the entire rest of the party *and the eidolon for the time it had been present* COMBINED)
Other than possibly the lance chargers or pouncers that deal hundreds upo hundreds of points of damage in one turn *and* can reliably charge despite the myriad things that can prevent a charge, no melee build should ever be on a "broken builds" list. Unless broken is to include underpowered/nonfunctional as well as overpowered, since both extremes are right to consider "broken."
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Other than possibly the lance chargers or pouncers that deal hundreds upo hundreds of points of damage in one turn *and* can reliably charge despite the myriad things that can prevent a charge, no melee build should ever be on a "broken builds" list. Unless broken is to include underpowered/nonfunctional as well as overpowered, since both extremes are right to consider "broken."
Wonderful. You've just opened the door for overpowered fighters, barbarians and monks. Fighters and barbarians can both be built to reliably pounce. Monks access dimensional dervish.
You also forgot fighter, monk, ranger and paladin archer builds.
Poor rogue. Left out again.
Lance pouncing DOES NOT work. It has been faq'd and the triple lance damage is only on the first attack, no extra damage for the iterative. This is why ragelancepounce builds at people tried to make for barbarians originally, although worked on paper, did not work in actuality due to the dev ruling.
Lance pouncing DOES NOT work. It has been faq'd and the triple lance damage is only on the first attack, no extra damage for the iterative. This is why ragelancepounce builds at people tried to make for barbarians originally, although worked on paper, did not work in actuality due to the dev ruling.
How does that put them in a worse position than just a pouncer?
Pouncer gets their 4 iterative attacks and their normal damage on them.
Pouncing Lancer gets their 4 iterative attacks with triple damage on the first, and normal on the other 3. They still come out ahead by 3 attacks worth of damage. (Nearly double).
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Lance pouncing DOES NOT work. It has been faq'd and the triple lance damage is only on the first attack, no extra damage for the iterative. This is why ragelancepounce builds at people tried to make for barbarians originally, although worked on paper, did not work in actuality due to the dev ruling.
You don't need a lance to deal an average of 400+ DRP.
1. I said melee build, I never even mentioned archers. I definitely am positive advanced guns can easily break the game, at the very least.
2. I said lance chargers or pouncers, not the combination of lance-pounce, though adding the two together causes no harm as noted. Doing triple damage and then *also* getting another three attacks is still quite nifty.
3. Barbarians, sure. How is Fighter getting pounce? There is an archetype to give up your best attack to "pounce," and there is the Mounted Skirmisher feat, that's...about it for Fighter. Monk gets Dimensional Dervish at level SEVENTEEN, it's a completely impractical build, and runs through your ki stupidly fast. Eldritch Knight, Magus (not that he needs it when he has Bladed Dash and Force Hook Charge), Horizon Walker all do it much better and earlier.
Not in a worse position, just not a godly position like people expect them too.
Let's say each attack does 25 points of damage minimum.
-Same 4 attacks for abnormal pounder= damage equaling 4 attacks(100pts min.)
-Lance pounce, actual ruling: damage equals 3 attack damage on first attack, 1 attack eqch other attack. Total damage: 3+3= 6 attacks of damage (150 pts Dmg min)
- ragelancepounce as people WANT it to be= each attack does triple damage.. 4 attacks. 4x3= 12 damage groupings (12 x25= 300 points min damage)
So as you can see, the lance pounder isn't in a worse position, just not godly one.
As for 400+ DPR. That is possible, but not as easily gained using a normal pouncer, vs the overpowered illegal lance pounced on all attacks. The legal lance pounder, triple damage on first attack, only does 2 extra attacks of damage, so not a huge disparity.
Any beast-bonded witch after level 10.
Understood, but in the overall scheme of things, would it really be worth it for even another 90 (45 per hit) points of damage just to be able to do that to have a mount, when I'm already doing 180? Depending on the build, it makes sense, and that's fine, for my actual barbarian build I put up, I'm not sure I'd be in the mindset to switch him to a lance, and switch some feats rage powers to make him a a charge lance build just for 1/3 extra damage. 45 per hit, 4 attacks, vs 6.
For barbarians damage is a key role, obviously, but in my mind, unless I'm making a more damage focused build like that utilizing charging and bit some other damage heavy GUI
D for barbarian, I'm more likely to make a well rounded build. However, for charging builds utilizing a mount I'd quickly go to the lance builds. No question.
However, for an overall well rounded, great at all fronts: pounce, spell sunder/ regular sunder, high HP and dr, high saves, I'm pretty much set. More damage is always great, but I'd like to cover my rear on a few things if I have the chance. Since I do, I did. That's just me.
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As a side mention for broken builds, many if not all archer builds tend to be broken, but that's because they are more likely to get a full attack off then even a charger/pouncer. Zen archer, fighter archers are in the top builds of those types. Gunslingers are also seen as broken, especially with some of the archetypes.