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I am GMing a Shattered Star campaign in which a gunslinger player has saved up for the double hackbut. In case you're not familiar with it, here is its description from Ultimate Combat:
Double hackbut 4,000 gp 2d10(s) 2d12(m) ×4 50 ft. 1–2 (5 ft.) 2 18 lbs. B and P
This double-length rifle uses a pair of trunnions to mount its barrel into a swiveling mechanism fastened to a lightweight, two-wheeled carriage.
It takes a full-round action to [u]set up the carriage[/u]. The carriage has a hind leg, [u]allowing the wielder to wheel the device about and immediately prop it for stability during combat[/u]. Unlike other two-handed firearms, you must fire the double hackbut while it is mounted, or else firing it imparts a –4 penalty on attack rolls and the recoil knocks the wielder prone. A Large or larger creature can fire a double hackbut one size smaller than it is without its mounting as a normal two-handed weapon and without the danger of being knocked prone, but takes the normal penalty for firing an inappropriately sized weapon.
Now, if a player had to use a full-round action to set it up for every combat, I would not be so concerned about its 2d12 damage and 50 foot range. However, the language I underline suggests that a PC can wheel it around (assuming a smooth floor) and immediately use it in combat. Also, the weapon only weighs 18 pounds -- who's to say the PC can't just carry it up a flight of stairs, while in its carriage? And can't the gunslinger always set it up on the carriage during downtime between battles, so that he is almost always ready?
I have allowed a player in my game to do these things, and I'm concerned about it overshadowing the other players in the party. Also, the Musket Master archetype allows a gunslinger to reload this baby as a FREE ACTION (assuming Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges).
Isn't this a problem for party balance? Or am I not interpreting the rules correctly?
It takes a full round action to set up and then you can't move again unless you want to spend another full round action setting it up. Seems pretty lame to me.
Might make for a really nice execution weapon, though--coup de grace for 8d12...
It takes a full round action to set up and then you can't move again unless you want to spend another full round action setting it up. Seems pretty lame to me.
Might make for a really nice execution weapon, though--coup de grace for 8d12...
That's not how I read it -- sorry my underlining skills failed, but this language -- "full-round action to set up the carriage. The carriage has a hind leg, allowing the wielder to wheel the device about and immediately prop it for stability during combat"
This tells me you don't have to use a full-round action every time.
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It takes a full round action to set up and then you can't move again unless you want to spend another full round action setting it up. Seems pretty lame to me.
Might make for a really nice execution weapon, though--coup de grace for 8d12...
That's not how I read it -- sorry my underlining skills failed, but this language -- "full-round action to set up the carriage. The carriage has a hind leg, allowing the wielder to wheel the device about and immediately prop it for stability during combat"
This tells me you don't have to use a full-round action every time.
Whereas that tells me that propping it for stability is the description of what is happening while you are spending a full round action.
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The "leg" for stability turns it into a tripod consisting of two wheels and the "leg". You need this or it will just fall over. Like a bicycle trying to stand on two wheels, it will always fall unless you lean it against something (not plausible for a swiveling gun) or put down the bicycle's kickstand which is a "leg" used to stabilize it.
Once the carriage is set up (which takes a full round and includes deploying the "leg" for stability and probably involves locking the wheels - using angled blocks of wood and sandbags - like they did with Civil War wheeled cannons so they wouldn't roll backward all over the battlefield by their own recoil), you can now use your weapon more or less like a vehicle-mounted M-60 or .50 Cal machine gun (except it's a rifle, but the mechanics of mounting, swiveling, and aiming is much the same).
The part about being able to "wheel about" is using military terminology. When a formation "wheels about" it is simply changing it's orientation to face a different direction. Specifically, "wheel about" turns a formation 180 degrees to face what used to be its rear. Note that this applies to formations that don't have wheels, such as in Napoleonic battles when a company would form lines of riflemen. When those lines needed to face a different direction, their officer would order them to "wheel right" or "wheel left" or "wheel about".
With regards to the hackbut, this term is being used to say that you can immediately turn the (deployed) weapon around to a new facing (yes, the game has no facing), in other words, stating that you don't have to break down and set up the carriage to swing the weapon around to aim it somewhere else, say, if new threats enter the battle behind you. Or in yet other words, it's saying that you don't have facing and neither does your hackbut because you can instantly "wheel about" or "turn around" to aim it anywhere.
To be clear, "wheel about" has nothing to do with rules bout pushing/pulling the carriage around a dungeon or town - I think it's assumed that you can push or pull your carriage much like anyone can push or pull a wheelbarrow. Then, when you get to where you want to fight, you take a full round setting up and deploying the kickstand. After that, you can "wheel about" or "turn around" immediately as much as you want. If you want to relocate to a new location, you un-set-up the carriage, move it, then spend a full round to set it up again.
What happens when fireball hits this carriage?
What happens when fireball hits this carriage?
what happens when the fireball hits a player you mean as the Carriage is considered the players weapon, there for the player will make or try to make a saving throw.
Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks: Items Affected by Magical Attacks. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt.
In this case a weapon like that is #4 on the list.
DM Blake is correct.
The "leg" for stability turns it into a tripod consisting of two wheels and the "leg". You need this or it will just fall over. Like a bicycle trying to stand on two wheels, it will always fall unless you lean it against something (not plausible for a swiveling gun) or put down the bicycle's kickstand which is a "leg" used to stabilize it.
Once the carriage is set up (which takes a full round and includes deploying the "leg" for stability and probably involves locking the wheels - using angled blocks of wood and sandbags - like they did with Civil War wheeled cannons so they wouldn't roll backward all over the battlefield by their own recoil), you can now use your weapon more or less like a vehicle-mounted M-60 or .50 Cal machine gun (except it's a rifle, but the mechanics of mounting, swiveling, and aiming is much the same).
The part about being able to "wheel about" is using military terminology. When a formation "wheels about" it is simply changing it's orientation to face a different direction. Specifically, "wheel about" turns a formation 180 degrees to face what used to be its rear. Note that this applies to formations that don't have wheels, such as in Napoleonic battles when a company would form lines of riflemen. When those lines needed to face a different direction, their officer would order them to "wheel right" or "wheel left" or "wheel about".
With regards to the hackbut, this term is being used to say that you can immediately turn the (deployed) weapon around to a new facing (yes, the game has no facing), in other words, stating that you don't have to break down and set up the carriage to swing the weapon around to aim it somewhere else, say, if new threats enter the battle behind you. Or in yet other words, it's saying that you don't have facing and neither does your hackbut because you can instantly "wheel about" or "turn around" to aim it anywhere.
To be clear, "wheel about" has nothing to do with rules bout pushing/pulling the carriage around a dungeon or town - I think it's...
The mention of "wheeling about" has nothing to do with drill movements. It is simply that you can lift the rear leg so you can use the wheels to move the device around either to re-aim it or relocate it. It is just like a Russian DShK machine gun (or my Weber kettle BBQ for that matter). Changing the direction the weapon is facing would take time as it won't quickly swivel in the manner of a pintle-mounted MG.
In military drill, wheeling generally refers to moving bodies of troops changing directions ( and not just 180 degrees). Stationary troops generally "turn" or "face". So again the use of "wheel" is a simple reference to method of movement.
For balance's sake, the gun works if it can't be moved once set up (or that moving it necessitates spending another full-round action to re-set it up.) Whatever the real-world application of that mechanic, it's the balancing act for its high damage and range. Even if you don't think that's what it means RAW, I'm fairly certain it was the intend RAI.
Either that, or the double hackbut is simply the single greatest weapon in the entire game. Heck, even with that limitation it's still a bit overpowered: take 2 levels of rogue, get the talent that lets you stand up as a free action, and you don't even need to worry about taking that full-round action at all.
For some reason every time I think of this weapon, I imagine ditching the cart for an immovable rod...
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This weapon, combined with Enlarge Person and Named Bullet, makes for one heck of an "argument finalizer".
I have a player who used one of these in my Jade Regent campaing. It's not his regular weapon, but damn can it be absolutely devastating against single oponents. The diviner casts Named Bullet, gun-wielding alchemist brings home the pain.
This weapon, combined with Enlarge Person and Named Bullet, makes for one heck of an "argument finalizer".
I have a player who used one of these in my Jade Regent campaing. It's not his regular weapon, but damn can it be absolutely devastating against single oponents. The diviner casts Named Bullet, gun-wielding alchemist brings home the pain.
Plus gravity bow for full effect.
I know a lot of players balk at the idea of not being the center of attention, but if a team of three would all specialize in the Double Hackbut: One to reload it, the other to shoot it with rapid shot, and the other to drop some gravity bow and magic weapon on it, you've got the most devastating weapon on earth and it could be doable by 2nd or 3rd level, with only a 1 round wait to get it to full-power.
I deleted an earlier post of mine, since I realized that apparently, Musket Master just says Twohanded Firearms, and the only thing musket about the archetype, is that your start gun has to be one...
However im fairly sure that.
1: Enlarge person only affects MELEE weapon damage.
2: Gravity Bow only affects Bows and Crossbows.
Well, the cart would require that the character wheel the whole thing around like a wheelbarrow, with the one back leg possibly being stood upon when firing.
If you look at the historical weapon, it had a hook and two pins on the barrel. The pins were for bracket mouting on a device such as the one described, whereas the hook was to brace on the crenelations of a battlement.
All that said, 2d12, even multiplied by 4 for a full attack (8d12) doesn't even keep pace with many wizard spells that can easily pull out 25-40 d6, many of which go against touch AC or saves (also generally lower than AC, but often still dealing dmg on a successful save).
Granted, weapon special abilities can tip this scale, but it's still not quite OP IMHO, especially when you consider the investment involved. & if you don't like the cart you could always makethem vventure through passageways too narrow for it (but don't be surprised when they pick up an immovable rod as Froze_man suggested, above).
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Back when I was playing a Goblin Gunslinger, I had planned to multiclass into Ranger, get a Snapping Turtle animal companion, mount a big gun or cannon on its back, and then ride around on it like a tank.
As far as I understand the rules, anything that affects a crossbow also affects a gun. It mentions crossbow mastery as an example, but as I understand it that also includes spells like gravity bow.
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Can you put it on a floating disk?
I don't know if that would fly with Pathfinder Society, but it certainly would at my table. But then, I don't believe in CRs and balanced, 4 encounters-per-day combats. You pull out your big guns, I pull out mine, and we have fun blowing each other up.
Whereas that tells me that propping it for stability is the description of what is happening while you are spending a full round action.It takes a full round action to set up and then you can't move again unless you want to spend another full round action setting it up. Seems pretty lame to me.
Might make for a really nice execution weapon, though--coup de grace for 8d12...
That's not how I read it -- sorry my underlining skills failed, but this language -- "full-round action to set up the carriage. The carriage has a hind leg, allowing the wielder to wheel the device about and immediately prop it for stability during combat"
This tells me you don't have to use a full-round action every time.
Just re-read this. So why does the text say "immediately"? It would convey your meaning better without the word "immediately"...
I now have another player who is getting his own double hackbut. I will just say it takes a full-round action to prop it up in every combat, period. I will cite balance purposes: it's significantly more powerful than other firearms, after all.
Back when I was playing a Goblin Gunslinger, I had planned to multiclass into Ranger, get a Snapping Turtle animal companion, mount a big gun or cannon on its back, and then ride around on it like a tank.
Multiclass Beast Rider Cavalier and get an elephant. At least then you have the movement speed required for getting around a battlefield.
I take it to mean that once you've spent the full-round action to set up, you can do limited repositioning (not moving to a new square) without spending a full-round action to break it down and another to set it up again.
Here's an image of what I think the base description is meaning.
This thing reminds me of a Lahti L-39.
hmmm, it is 2d12. Let's see...
Why not just bring a field cannon, Large, for 6d6? or a huge Fiends mouth for 8d6) Wait, they are a tad too big...
Take a Culverin if you want to skip the cart.
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Heck, why mess around with this thing when you can haul a trebuchet into dungeons with you and lob 2 ton boulders?
Cause you can't fire it there AD - trebuchets are indirect and needs a height. Take a fiends mouth cannon - same size or smaller and it's direct.
Nobody is moving full speed through a natural cavern wheeling a fully-deployed double hackbut. Not to mention that any creature worth its CR would sunder the thing as soon as they recognized it as a threat. The double hackbut is useful, but it's not overpowered for the same reason that siege weapons aren't overpowered--it's big and cumbersome and slow. They're the weapons you give to your followers when your stronghold is under attack, not weapons you add to your adventuring golf bag.
Is there even a way to get four iteratives with a double-hackbut? You could get one extra shot with a beneficial bandolier, I suppose.
In our skull & shackles game, I was using it with deadshot on a mysterious stranger (who otherwise has no feats for the gun) then reloading with a swift actiion using the gunslinger deed. However, i have been just dropping prone when needed or bracing it against objects, which as i re-read the description may not be that logical.
Deadshot is another thing entirely. That sort of gets you iteratives and is quite awesome at the cost of some grit or a Signature Deed. I hadn't thought of using Lightning Reload, which is useless for a lot of 'slinger builds but effective here.
Can you put it on a floating disk?I don't know if that would fly with Pathfinder Society, but it certainly would at my table. But then, I don't believe in CRs and balanced, 4 encounters-per-day combats. You pull out your big guns, I pull out mine, and we have fun blowing each other up.
I did this in a Star Wars game. I found a hovering gurney that was used to evacuate the wounded. I then put one of the big squad-support E-web blasters on it. Portable fire support.
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Double hackbuts are quite problematic as is. When does one have to take a full round action to set it up? Is it just once and then never again? At the start of combat? After any movement at all?
I would be inclined to say after any movement, both for balance reasons, and because of the mention of movement in the entry, but it uses two different terms (set up vs prop up) and includes the word immediately, which hardly seems compatible with full round actions. Without clarification, this seems like a reasonable house rule*, and quite possibly the intent, but not necessarily RAW.
On the other hand, one could just as easily argue that the full-round action must be taken in preparation for combat. This is based on the assumption that one cannot wheel the thing around through even remotely rough terrain, and therefore the gun is simply carried until it must be deployed. This makes more sense with the immediate prop up section, but requires unsupported assumptions, and still does less to balance out the total superiority of the hackbut. Absent a mention of terrain or movement rules, this one is hard to justify. What is there to stop a player from declaring that his character never removes the gun from the cart?
And that brings us to the "set it and forget it" interpretation. This version says that the prop up statement is really just there for flavor, as it contains no actual rules. Consequently, the only way the full-round action will ever come up in combat is if the character gets ambushed at the gunshop within six seconds of buying the double hackbut. Once that full-round action is taken, it might as well be a musket. In fact, it would be entirely consistent with this interpretation for flying creatures to wield double hackbuts without penalty, so long as they have carts dangling from them. Unfortunately, strictly speaking, this looks to be the way the rules are written.
As if the cart issue wasn't enough, there is also the capacity issue. The chart says the double hackbut has a capacity of 2, which is highly suspect. Without even bringing in real world examples, we can find evidence that this is an error.
First, the entry describes the the hackbut as double-length, and makes no mention of a second barrel. Second, the hackbut's nearest equivalent is the musket, which has a double barreled variant. The only meaningful difference between the single and double barreled versions is the misfire chance. The hackbut has the misfire chance of the single barreled musket, not the double barreled.
Honestly, my theory is that it is a simple editing mistake, that someone saw the word double and changed the capacity to 2.
When combined with superior range (a fact which is tremendously important given the benefits firearms gain in the first range increment) double damage, low misfire, and potentially no drawbacks from the cart depending on interpretation, the capacity is the cheesy icing on the cake. Without some clarification or a house ruling, there is absolutely no reason for a character with the gold and carrying capacity to use any other gun.
I have seen so many discussions on this issue, but I've never found anything from anyone at paizo, official or unofficial. I really wish we could get an answer.
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*I have been running a gun heavy campaign for over a year and a half. I house ruled the capacity of the hackbut down to one, and declared that the full round action was required after any movement, including a 5 ft step. Consequently, the party uses hackbuts primarily for ambushes, ship to ship combat, defensive positions, and other situations where movement is unlikely. It becomes a specialized weapon, which is powerful, but situational. These rules work well, and I wouldn't mind seeing them show up in a FAQ at some point.
one time, my party consisting of a cleric/gunslinger/ninja, an Alchemist, a wizard, and a fighter realized we could resurrect a kraken with the right gear, and modified it.
It became a flying gunship coated with mounted cannons and flyspeed.. though it required both the cleric and the wizard to pilot... it was fine because we used to to plunder the seven seas and eventually got the money to plate the thing in adamantine.
good times were had by all.. except the DM... the DM had cancelled the game after that..
Not to mention that any creature worth its CR would sunder the thing as soon as they recognized it as a threat.
The real question is how many players would complain that they were being unfairly targeted by the GM.
Not to mention that any creature worth its CR would sunder the thing as soon as they recognized it as a threat.The real question is how many players would complain that they were being unfairly targeted by the GM.
Then if it were intelligent, it would vocally say "OH HELL YEAH I'VE ALWAYS WANTED ONE OF THOSE!" and its buddies would sprint and bull rush the player away from the hackbutt.. thus stealing the hackbutt
The part about being able to "wheel about" is using military terminology.
What horrible writing to use the term "wheel about" when talking about a device with wheels. (Serious, not sarcasm.)
Then if it were intelligent, it would vocally say "OH HELL YEAH I'VE ALWAYS WANTED ONE OF THOSE!" and its buddies would sprint and bull rush the player away from the hackbutt.. thus stealing the hackbuttNot to mention that any creature worth its CR would sunder the thing as soon as they recognized it as a threat.The real question is how many players would complain that they were being unfairly targeted by the GM.
As a GM, I would have a lot more fun with it.
If for some inexplicable reason, I were to allow a player to use a double hackbut with the "set it and forget" interpretation, and wanted to make his life hell, I'd have goblins sneak into the camp at night, dismantle it, and steal the cart. When he wakes up he still has the gun, but not the cart that allows him to avoid the penalties.
Player: "Fine, I'll buy a cart"
ME: "Can you find a price for them?"
Player: "Uh... no. I go to the nearest store and try to negotiate with the owner"
ME: "OK, he wants 4,000 gold"
Player: "What? No, I just want the cart"
ME: "Yeah, with all these goblins stealing carts, the guns are worthless without them. So if you want a new cart, you're gonna have to buy the gun too. And this time you might want to take better care of it."
By the end of the next session, I'd have him guarding that cart with his life. He'd be too scared to wheel it through a dungeon for fear of setting off a trap that damages it. And yet, he can't leave it behind, because then it'll get stolen. That gun would become the bane of his existence, and may very well drive him insane.
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Hauling around a cart?
Screw that noise.
Initiative: +9
AC: 24 (+4 Dex, +6 Armor, +2 Natural Armor, +2 Nimble), Touch AC: 17
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +17, Will +12
HP: 87 (FC)
Str: 14
Dex: 20
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 7
Traits: Reactionary (+2 Initiative), Sensing Imperfection (+1 Sense Motive)
Alternate Racial Traits: Scarred (+1 Natural Armor, no Darkvision) and Engineer (+2 Craft Alchemy and Kn. Engineering, no Stealthy)
Acrobatics +23
Craft: Alchemy +16
Kn. Engineering +16
Perception +24
Sense Motive +17
Feats:
Bonus: Gunsmithing
Bonus: Rapid Reload (Muskets)
1.) Point Blank Shot
Bonus: Crane Style
Bonus: Toughness
Bonus: Stunning Fist (DC 13)
3.) Weapon Focus: Culverin
4.) Rapid Shot
5.) Deadly Aim
Bonus: Crane Wing
7.) Precise Shot
9.) Clustered Shots
Class Features: Gunsmithing, Grit (3), Deeds, Nimble +2, Musket Training Improved Unarmed Strike, Fast Movement (Deactivated), AC Bonus +1 (Deactivated), Bastion Stance, Still Mind, Ki Pool (5)
Melee: Longsword +11 (1d8+2/19-20 x2), Unarmed Strike +11 (1d6+2)
Ranged: Musket +16 (1d12+5/x4), +3 Culverin +20 (2d6+8/x4) (-4 when not braced)
OR
Musket +11/+11/+6 (1d12+11/x4), +3 Culverin +15/+15/+10 (2d6+14/x4)(-4 when not braced)
Equipment: Musket, +2 Mithral Chain Shirt, +3 Culverin, Belt of Physical Might (Str and Dex) +2, Cloak of Resistances +3, Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, Bracers of Falcon's Aim, Eyes of the Eagle, Boots of Elvenkind, Miscellaneous gear, 8,900k remaining
MUHAHAHAHAHA!
Hauling around a cart?
Screw that noise.
** spoiler omitted **
MUHAHAHAHAHA!
The fact that you can make a powerful build without a hackbut doesn't seem particularly relevant. No one is claiming that all other firearms are useless.
On the other hand, the ambiguity in the hackbut description means that depending on your interpretation, there may be no reason not replace the musket in this build with a hackbut, for more damage, range and capacity with no real trade offs.
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I stand by my original post at the beginning of this thread. This weapon is field artillery, more or less, and it should be treated as such. OK, not quite "artillery", but mechanically similar to artillery.
"Wheel about" doesn't mean "roll around the dungeon on its wheels". It's a military turn meaning (basically) "to change facing".
If you move the hackbutt from one place to another place, even if it's just 5' away (therefore, any movement from one square to another square), then you have to spend your full round setting it back up.
But if all you're doing is swinging it around in its current square so that it is now facing a new direction, then you don't have to set it up, you can simply "wheel about" (the military term) to face whatever direction you want.
*I have been running a gun heavy campaign for over a year and a half. I house ruled the capacity of the hackbut down to one, and declared that the full round action was required after any movement, including a 5 ft step. Consequently, the party uses hackbuts primarily for ambushes, ship to ship combat, defensive positions, and other situations where movement is unlikely. It becomes a specialized weapon, which is powerful, but situational. These rules work well, and I wouldn't mind seeing them show up in a FAQ at some point.
Perfect.
Your party is using the weapon exactly as it should be used, though, if they were so inclined, they could also roll one around with them in dungeons and spend the round right before a combat, or during the first round of combat, which would make this a plausible adventuring weapon, too - at least until they start adventuring in terrains where rolling a carriage around is a real problem - but by then they could use extradimensional stuff, say, a portable hole, to transport their field artillery.
The fact that you can make a powerful build without a hackbut doesn't seem particularly relevant. No one is claiming that all other firearms are useless.
I didn't say they were. I was just giving an example of a very similar gun that can be used effectively without the pesky cart nonsense (and therefore many of the counters proposed here).
Also, you can use the Double Hackbut with that build just fine, so it doesn't really matter.
It was meant to be a fun post. Also, it kinda shows the cries of overpowered-ness are a bit exaggerated.
On the other hand, the ambiguity in the hackbut description means that depending on your interpretation, there may be no reason not replace the musket in this build with a hackbut, for more damage, range and capacity with no real trade offs.
Well, besides the size, problems with difficult terrain, effort required to move it (I assume it works like a Cart, which requires two people to move unless you're Large), and the vulnerability that cart entails, alongside the cost, sure.
It might be quite impractical to Wheel a hackbut around. That's why you might need to homebrew a device that allows you to avoid the gun's kick. How about a device that uses an Immovable Rob to hold the gun in place?
It might be quite impractical to Wheel a hackbut around. That's why you might need to homebrew a device that allows you to avoid the gun's kick. How about a device that uses an Immovable Rob to hold the gun in place?
That's actually a great idea. Just have someone build it into the gun's stock. Brilliant!
But, since I can't resist, can we use an Immovable Steve or an Immovable Tom? How about an Immovable Hank?
Just kidding, couldn't resist, but I really like the idea. I may steal it...
That'd actually be kind of neat, though really only saves you a part of the time (it takes a Standard to activate an Immovable Rod, I think).
Still, lets you move it about better for sure.
Is it worth pointing out that according to the Inner Sea World Guide, p. 292, the only firearms normally available are the pepperbox, pistol, musket, and cannon? all others are only available through high-level treasure?
That's actually a great idea. Just have someone build it into the gun's stock. Brilliant!
*damn typo XP*
That's the only thing I could find suitable to stop a hackbut's or even a culverin's recoil. Seems like a no-brainer to get this annoyance addressed as a magic item for these.
We've got waterproff gunpowder and bullets, exceptional sights and even infinitely loaded pistols. Why isn't there a non-recoiling effect applied on a recoiling firearm is beyond me...
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I deleted an earlier post of mine, since I realized that apparently, Musket Master just says Twohanded Firearms, and the only thing musket about the archetype, is that your start gun has to be one...However im fairly sure that.
1: Enlarge person only affects MELEE weapon damage.
2: Gravity Bow only affects Bows and Crossbows.
The Enlarge person only doing normal damage with ranged attacks was, I believe, an editing error. Reduce Person actually has the right of it, though the damage is reduced because of that.
It still has not been corrected nor commented on. It makes a Transmuter Archer cry.
Gravity Bow works on weapons that are not thrown. (Those using leverage through a device, such as a bow, crossbow and gun) A Sling is considered an aid to through the sling bullets. Now, I should say that I am going by intent, not from precise words from a particular passage within the spell/feat/skill/talent/power/etc that we talk of.
I stand by my original post at the beginning of this thread. This weapon is field artillery, more or less, and it should be treated as such. OK, not quite "artillery", but mechanically similar to artillery.
"Wheel about" doesn't mean "roll around the dungeon on its wheels". It's a military turn meaning (basically) "to change facing".
If you move the hackbutt from one place to another place, even if it's just 5' away (therefore, any movement from one square to another square), then you have to spend your full round setting it back up.
But if all you're doing is swinging it around in its current square so that it is now facing a new direction, then you don't have to set it up, you can simply "wheel about" (the military term) to face whatever direction you want.
Except there's no facing in Pathfinder. You can *always* fire any ranged weapon in any direction, so there would be no need to mention wheeling if that's all it means.
Hrm. This is an old build so it is very possible it sucks a lot worse than I remember. =/
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As you said originally the double hackbut is a very...picky weapon with regard to the conditions under which it can be used.
If you want to teach the wielder logical consequences, might I suggest (for starters) a battle in the middle of a reverse gravity field?
PC: "I fire my double hackbut at the monster directly beneath me! Look out below!"
DM: "It fires its payload, then recoils 100 feet STRAIGHT UP...you weren't positioned behind it when you fired it, were you?"
Except there's no facing in Pathfinder. You can *always* fire any ranged weapon in any direction, so there would be no need to mention wheeling if that's all it means.
There is one very good reason for it to be mentioned. Since the weapon resembles a siege weapon in several aspects, and certain siege weapons DO need to be reaimed to fire, it can simply be intended as a clarification that hackbuts do not need to be reaimed (in the sense that catapults do).