Suggestions for alternative attribute generation?

[Tarvi]

I'm curious to know what ability generation approaches people have as options other than point buy or just random generation?

I'm not entirely sold on either approach, point buy has the drawback that it's easy to get into stereotyped score distributions as well as favouring single attribute classes over multi-attribute classes.

Rolling for stats has the huge drawback that you can have 2 characters in the same class where 1 of them is just completely better than the other. (Back in very early days of Earthdawn I rolled a character with 18, 18, 18, 17, 16, 12 back in 1st ed AD&D days I rolled a character who had 3 scores below 5 so didn't qualify for any class)

Do people have any other suggestions?

[Ascalaphus]

I've grown very disenchanted with random attributes; the differences between players are annoying. Sure, it's nice to roll well; but it's not so nice for those that don't roll well.

I'm not sure if point buy really favors SAD classes all that much; it's cheaper to buy a few decent scores than to buy one really good one.

Another method that's sometimes used is giving people an array of scores, to rearrange to their liking - everyone gets the same stats to work with. It's fair, and probably the best way to balance MAD and SAD; but if you don't want "stale" distributions, it's not for you.

[Browman]

A system I like is originally from way of the wicked, called focus and foible. One of your choice gets an 18, another stat gets and 8, and then you use1d10+7 in order for the other 4 stats.

[GrandReaper]

I will never stop giving stat arrays. I give two - one that favors SAD and one that favors. They have the same total stat bonus and are only one point apart as stat buys.

[The Boz]

Ascalaphus wrote:

I've grown very disenchanted with random attributes; the differences between players are annoying. Sure, it's nice to roll well; but it's not so nice for those that don't roll well.

I'm not sure if point buy really favors SAD classes all that much; it's cheaper to buy a few decent scores than to buy one really good one.

Another method that's sometimes used is giving people an array of scores, to rearrange to their liking - everyone gets the same stats to work with. It's fair, and probably the best way to balance MAD and SAD; but if you don't want "stale" distributions, it's not for you.

Point buy favors SAD classes because they only need the one attribute. Sure, it's cheaper to buy a +2 to everything, but it's much more effective to have a single +4 and have it apply to everything.

I prefer array generation. DM rolls an attribute array, and players assign the six values generated to their ability scores however they like.

[JoeOutside]

There is a book from Necromancers of the Northwest called the Book of Beginnings that has three alternate attribute generation methods. I'm fond of the tarot based method from that book, as it combines the balance of point buy with the randomness of rolling.

[EldonG]

The Grid method.

It rocks. :)

[MechE_]

We use an array, but the array is generated at the start of the first session (or the session before moving onto a new campaign) with each player rolling a single 4d6, drop the lowest, and then laying out all 6 stats into a single array. If the array is underpowered, the DM can roll an additional stat and drop the lowest from the array.

This way everyone gets the fun of rolling at least one stat, but you don't end up with radically unequal stats between characters. So far, we've ended up with the following stat arrays for our 3 campaigns:
15, 14, 13, 12, 12, 10
16, 14, 13, 12, 12, 11
16, 14, 13, 11, 10, 9

I would highly recommend this approach - we haven't had a single player complaint about it yet.

[Mortuum]

I invented this method of generating fair but random scores:

Ability scores are generated in 3 pairs.

The generate a pair, roll the first score on 3d6, create the second by subtracting the first from 21, then add 2 to the lowest score in the pair.

Once all 6 scores are created, assign each wherever you wish.

[Valandil Ancalime]

Here are some previous threads to look at;
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2na5r?PCs-using-different-ability-score-generat ion#30
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nj6v?How-do-you-roll-stats-for-new-characters# 8
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pj2l?Character-Generation-Methods#19
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In the past I have used arrays. Something like;
1) 17,16,12,10,10,7
2) 16,15,14,11,10,9
3) 14,14,14,14,12,10
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I recall this method from somewhere. Everyone assigns there own stats and then calculates the Point Buy value. If your PB value is over a certain number, you get Hubris points. Anytime the DM needs to make a random decision, like which character will this random event/monster/attack etc... effect/hit, he picks the person with the highest Hubris score, and then subtracts 1 from that Hubris score. I wish I could remember where I saw this...memory is always the 2nd thing to go with age, I just wish I could remember the first.
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The method we currently use, take 18 cards (we use 6x4, 5x4, 4x3, 3x4, 2x2, 1x2).
1- randomly divide 18 cards 3 per stat, in order
2- add up each stat
3- add 1 to a stat and 4 (max 18)to another stat
3.5(optional) switch any 2 stats
4- adjust for race
The 1 is to make an odd stat even.
The 4 can make a moderate stat good (or a poor stat moderate), if you really want to play a specific class/concept. This gets you the random/organic-ness of rolling, but keeps the fairness(all characters are around the same power) of point buy (without the cookie cutter sameness).

[Chakat Firepaw]

One system that give you the variety of random rolls while not having the balance issues that can arise is the 23-25-27 system:

Roll 4d6 dropping the lowest three times, subtract those from 23, 25 and 27 in order, (re-roll any that give you a score above 18). Optionally add +2 to any one score for a higher power game.

[Rylar]

One way I've tried is to give every class and race a point value and go from there. It makes the class and race choice a bit more important.

Let's say I wanted to go with +6 ability modifier points. That gives stats points for each class and race.

So races:
Human : +2 to 3 stats of your choice.
Dwarf : +2 str, +4 con +2 wis -2 cha

Classes:
Paladin: +2 str, +2 wis, +2 cha
Fighter: +4 str, +2 con
Barbarian: +4 str, +4 con, -2 int

Start with 10's everywhere.
A human paladin could be 14,10,12,10,12,14
While a barbarian dwarf could be 16,10, 18, 8, 12, 8

You could find other reasons to modify attributes if you wish such as occupation, background, etc. You could treat archtypes as different classes.

[Byrdology]

Rylar wrote:

One way I've tried is to give every class and race a point value and go from there. It makes the class and race choice a bit more important.

Let's say I wanted to go with +6 ability modifier points. That gives stats points for each class and race.

So races:
Human : +2 to 3 stats of your choice.
Dwarf : +2 str, +4 con +2 wis -2 cha

Classes:
Paladin: +2 str, +2 wis, +2 cha
Fighter: +4 str, +2 con
Barbarian: +4 str, +4 con, -2 int

Start with 10's everywhere.
A human paladin could be 14,10,12,10,12,14
While a barbarian dwarf could be 16,10, 18, 8, 12, 8

You could find other reasons to modify attributes if you wish such as occupation, background, etc. You could treat archtypes as different classes.

Now that is interesting!

I did a low power game where every one started out with flat 10's across the board, then added racial mods, and then gave 2 stat points at odd levels. It was pretty brutal, but it incouraged a ton of teamwork and RP for the characters. The halfling rogue and Dwarven cleric were the stars of the game till the tiefling wizard pulled ahead after lvl 5. There was a human ranger that was pretty decent throughout as well.

[Ascalaphus]

I'm thinking about altering the stat increase on 4x levels to instead grant X number of BP every level, as part of a grand plan to reduce WBL-dependency.

So for example every level you'd get X=2 BP to add to ability scores, but the increase to ability scores counts as an Enhancement bonus.

I'm still trying to work out a good value of X.

[RDM]

I've seen one where you have a base set of scores and then instead of assigning points to different scores you assign dice. So say you have a base of seven for all scores, from that base you can assign 12 d sixes, one dice at a time, to each ability score, can't go above 18 before modifiers.

So, for example, you could assign 3d6 to strength if you wanted a fair certainty to have that attribute high, and 1d6 to something you didn't care about. Assigning more dice has the risk of wasting points, but its weighed against the certainty of a higher score.