So, after a discussion in another thread, it occurred to me that a one-shot about a ghoul claiming to seek redemption could be an interesting experience.
However, there is one barrier.
Sense Motive.
I'd like to make this just a default ghoul--just with a level or two of rogue at most. But I want there to be doubt right until the end as to whether his effort is legitimate.
Spoilers: It isn't.
This is meant to be a mystery. How do I ensure that Sense Motive wouldn't just break the game early on?
Yeah, magic makes it tough for noirs and murder mysteries. Are you running the game?
Make it a low-level adventure. Make the ghoul rogue1 with maxed bluff and skill focus bluff.
Or make the ghoul itself uncertain, maybe split personalities like gollum or maybe "just" voices in her head.
Yeah, magic makes it tough for noirs and murder mysteries. Are you running the game?
It's not even a matter of magic, it's just a matter of the whole game coming down to my single d20 roll vs. their four d20 rolls. And that's assuming I'm able to restrict it to just a single initial Bluff. I like the idea of a cross-personality.
If I max out Bluff, I get a +11 (+3 ranks, +3 class skill, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Charisma). Taking 10, that still leaves at least a 20% chance of him getting caught with each Bluff.
And that's assuming each party member has just a +1! With a few Wisdom-focused characters (or characters with ranks in Sense Motive) I could be looking at multiple PCs who see through his lies 45% of the time. Add it all up and he's doomed.
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If I max out Bluff, I get a +11 (+3 ranks, +3 class skill, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Charisma). Taking 10, that still leaves at least a 20% chance of him getting caught with each Bluff.
And that's assuming each party member has just a +1! With a few Wisdom-focused characters (or characters with ranks in Sense Motive) I could be looking at multiple PCs who see through his lies 45% of the time. Add it all up and he's doomed.
Having one rank of rogue gives +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 to ability scores - put the 4's into charisma and intelligence or cha+wis and one of the twos in the last mental attribute. Don't JUST go for bluffs, go for diplomacy as well.
Also, seeing through some bluffs will of course keep them on their feet! If they always failed they would be certain it told the truth...
You should consider giving them reasons to believe the rogue that can't be measured in rolls. Have the ghoul either be someone they knew in life, or have the ghoul make them bluff into thinking so. If the ghoul can convince one of the PC's she was the PC's aunt (and of course you have to frame it so that that PC's PLAYER thinks it was the PC's aunt), that PC will probably have higher tendency to believe the ghoul.
Or you could make it Rogue (Charlatan) 2, to get Natural Born Lier and a rogue talent (which could either be spent on the Deceptive or Careful Speaker feats or the False Friend talent to ensure the ghoul can convince at least some of them they knew each other previously).
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Just give him a second motivation that outweighs the first one. Anyone who succeeds on a sense motive check gets the stronger of the two. Kind of like using "magic aura" on some other magic to hide it, but in this case it's not deliberate (if people could deliberately do this then it would auto-fail every sense motive check ever). It's also close to how people (supposedly) beat lie detector tests in the real world by manufacturing real anxiety about all the questions so the machine cannot see through that anxiety to spot the actual anxiety about the lies the person is telling.
For example, if your ghoul is terrified of adventurers (and what ghoul wouldn't be?), when someone in your party beats his bluff (he's bluffing that he's not terrified), then have them sense that hidden fear. Say something like "You can tell this ghoul is trying very hard to mask his fear, probably of you. He's apparently afraid you probably just want to kill him but doesn't want you to see his fear."
That would all be true, even if he's also lying about his plans.
Later, when the PCs figure out what the ghoul was up to, if any of them remember that early attempt to sense his motives and confront you about it, you can easily just say that it was all true, he really was afraid of being killed, and that fear of his was so strong that it completely overwhelmed his trickery.
The Ghoul could be Cursed, Geased or wear a Headband of Opposite Alignment, so he wouldn't actually be lying. He could even have fallen in love with a Good creature. The trick would be to have the intended road to redemption remove the cause for the Ghoul's desire to go Good.
Having one rank of rogue gives +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 to ability scores - put the 4's into charisma and intelligence or cha+wis and one of the twos in the last mental attribute. Don't JUST go for bluffs, go for diplomacy as well.
Oh, good catch with the abilities thing. Diplomacy can't be used on PCs, though. :P
Also, seeing through some bluffs will of course keep them on their feet! If they always failed they would be certain it told the truth...
My stance on Sense Motive is that if you fail, you don't know. If they see through its initial bluff of, say, "Didn't mean to hurt the girl...want to be forgiven..." then all bets are off.
You should consider giving them reasons to believe the rogue that can't be measured in rolls. Have the ghoul either be someone they knew in life, or have the ghoul make them bluff into thinking so. If the ghoul can convince one of the PC's she was the PC's aunt (and of course you have to frame it so that that PC's PLAYER thinks it was the PC's aunt), that PC will probably have higher tendency to believe the ghoul.
This is an interesting idea, for sure, and one I think I'll use.
For example, if your ghoul is terrified of adventurers (and what ghoul wouldn't be?), when someone in your party beats his bluff (he's bluffing that he's not terrified), then have them sense that hidden fear. Say something like "You can tell this ghoul is trying very hard to mask his fear, probably of you. He's apparently afraid you probably just want to kill him but doesn't want you to see his fear."
I may also use this. It's certainly elegant!
I second DM_Blake's suggestions. Those are all great and give more meat to the character.
I'd also like to add, that preferably, don't make the ghoul all super-evil and unchangable. While it may be true that it's lying about wanting to be redeemed, at least in the beginning, having it develop a good relationship with a PC or two, that it honestly likes and doesn't just use for it's purposes, can give it more depth.
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I would like the ghoul to be a bit Gollumish, in that some small part of it may want to be seen as good--if only by the party members. But its core essence will be evil. It is a ghoul, after all. :P
Maybe it's like how serial killers want to stop deep down, but they just don't know how.
I would, but I don't really want the final fight to consist of the horrendous crime against nature singing at the PCs. :P
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It's interesting if maybe the ghoul wasn't serious about redemption at the start, but it does start to think about it on the way. If you rule "this ghoul can be redeemed, even if he doesn't know it himself", that's an excuse why Sense Motive might give a "noisy" result; the PC senses the real potential for redemption that the ghoul thinks is something fake.
So now you've got a ghoul with the potential for redemption, who does need some prodding. For a lowly ghoul to continue enjoying this much attention from the PCs though, consider letting him gain levels now and then to remain within the PCs ballpark of power/usefulness. An undead quasi-ally that they need to watch but who can do stuff they can't do themselves due to being undead, might be an interesting tangent...
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I would, but I don't really want the final fight to consist of the horrendous crime against nature singing at the PCs. :P
You really don't know how Bards work.
Not every Bard is some frumpish Lute-playing pansy with ridiculous clothes.
It could be Perform:Oratory, in which a speech about their master plan is being announced.
Classic villain behavior.
Hitler was totally a Bard.
I would, but I don't really want the final fight to consist of the horrendous crime against nature singing at the PCs. :P
I vote Perform: Dance.
Either that, or have him pull a pipe-organ out of a portable hole as soon as combat starts and begin playing. The party will never see it coming.
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I know how bards work, I was kidding. >_>
I don't see how a master plan revealing speech would fit very well with a character like this...
I don't think an adventure like this should be played as much as classic "hero beats villain" as much as it should be played as tragic. The ghoul is evil, and at the end they might have to kill it, but they shouldn't feel proud for doing it.
Now, it's not my thread and not my decision on the theme of the campaign, so of course it's just my personal opinion, but that's how I'd try to run it.
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On a serious note. A split personality would do wonders. Giving him a still-human personality that is legitimately terrified and wants redemption, especially if you are having the ghoul be someone that one of the characters knew while he was still alive. Have the "human" personality be constantly at war with a darker personality that occasionally exerts itself. It should provide a good character that hides his core irredeemability well, after all, there is obvious good in there, actively fighting against the evil. He's not lying when he says he wants redemption, it just is not possibly, and his darker personality is slowly taking more control.
Would twist it to be very much in line with Ilja's suggestion of having it be a tragedy.
Hmm..yeah I've got nothing. Sorry, the best I can come up with is GM fiat, and I hate that.
I definitely do like the idea of a split personality. Perhaps the personalities will inevitably cascade into a single foul mind around the end, and this will turn out to be what most of the stronger-willed undead go through. Of course, if the party make him want to be redeemed strongly enough, he might be able to warn them before something terrible happens.
Or, of course, perhaps he's begging for mercy right up until the final blow. :)
I don't see how a master plan revealing speech would fit very well with a character like this...
I don't think an adventure like this should be played as much as classic "hero beats villain" as much as it should be played as tragic. The ghoul is evil, and at the end they might have to kill it, but they shouldn't feel proud for doing it.
I completely agree. I don't want this guy to be a bard because bards are too 'flashy'. Even without the silly clothes and singing, a bard relies a good deal on some sort of Perform--and, almost always, on talking. I'd rather go with Rogue.
When the ghoul dies, it shouldn't be "About time!" I want it to be, "I'm sorry." Sorry that the ghoul had to die. Sorry that sparing it probably led to further innocent deaths.
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Or throw him in Angel Skin armor ... it reduces the Evil Aura by 10 levels ... should have the ghoul not detect as evil, and assuming the PCs have the capability to detect evil, that should throw doubt into the minds of the PCs.
In order to help argue his case, maxing Bluff (and CHA) is your best best.
EDIT: don't forget about a Circlet of Persuasion ... +3 to the check.
Maybe he was Half-Celestial in life, and somehow that's still carrying over.
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I'd kinda rather not arbitrarily assign the ghoul a bunch of magic items if I don't have to. It is just a ghoul, after all.
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Special materials are basically the same problem. Same reason I wouldn't give a beggar mithril mail.
What happens when the lot of you stumble across rotten human remains? The poor bugger will likely relapse.
You could allow the ghoul to take a variant of the Stone Face feat, which is normally restricted to dwarves. Not that the ghoul's face is immobile or expressionless--far from it. Its visage is constantly twitching and drooling in the presence of live meat and he speaks in a modified howl, a la Bobcat Goldthwaite. This modified feat would allow the overwhelming hunger he always feels to give him a +4 bonus vs Sense Motive on any non-hunger-related topic (and a -4 on topics related to his hunger).
Alternatively, you could just give him the above as a racial ability.
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You could allow the ghoul to take a variant of the Stone Face feat, which is normally restricted to dwarves. Not that the ghoul's face is immobile or expressionless--far from it. Its visage is constantly twitching and drooling in the presence of live meat and he speaks in a modified howl, a la Bobcat Goldthwaite. This modified feat would allow the overwhelming hunger he always feels to give him a +4 bonus vs Sense Motive on any non-hunger-related topic (and a -4 on topics related to his hunger).
Alternatively, you could just give him the above as a racial ability.
...could be a dwarf ghoul. ;)
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Infiltrator Inquisitor with the Heresy Inquisition.
Have wear some Angelskin Armor, and wear a Mask of Stony Demeanor.
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Not more than two rogue levels, if that. The main threat of the villain is that the PCs will put off killing him--assuming I'm successful, obviously.
I'm afraid I don't have that book, Mikaze.
And again, if the ghoul needs a bunch of fancy equipment to pull it off, I think it might hurt the style I'm going for here.
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Not more than two rogue levels, if that. The main threat of the villain is that the PCs will put off killing him--assuming I'm successful, obviously.
I'm afraid I don't have that book, Mikaze.
And again, if the ghoul needs a bunch of fancy equipment to pull it off, I think it might hurt the style I'm going for here.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/vampire
Hunger is there. :)
I totally imagine a ghoul vigilante, who works in the shadows to hunt down evildoers in his quest for redemption, while still obeying his hunger so he does not frenzy and eat the innocent, and takes their money and valuables so he may one day afford a raise spell when he finds someone goodly (PCs) he can trust to kill him and bring him back.
The inquisitor idea is great, since I imagine he needs good wisdom and mental insulation to keep his wits about him, to have any hope to overcome his undead urges through the force of will alone. The one-in-a-million exception.
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OK, so you're talking a level 4 heroic NPC, so not really a beggar ... you're looking at about 2.4k in equipment total. Not a massive amount to work with (angelskin would take up almost half the total amount, so yeah, I would axe that as well).
Of course, if the ghoul had been a rogue before being turned, you could look at it from the point of view of what would the rogue have had ... the motivations could still be the same, especially if the rogue had been a con artist type.