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Ok some of the monsters I mentioned above are new to me and pretty awesome if you read more into them! Possibilities, possibilities!
A closer look:
Keukegen are these cute or nasty hairball creatures full of diseases! Everybody wants to touch their cute furry hair but then its too late as those hairs contain the most terrible diseases known to man.
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These are cool because they are all about Rain, maybe even acid rain or Blood Rain? Their umbrella's could be fierce weapons much like the fan of Kitana from Mortal Kombat. These creatures are always followed by heavy monsoons and rainfall. I would like them to have mouths like the Slith Mouthed Woman.
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Another handsome male creature, this time one from the moon. When you look at the moon you can sometimes seet he face of the Katsura-Otoko in it, it will charm you and hunt you down if you make too much eye-contact. Katsura-Otoko are probably much like the Lunar Ravagers from D&D.
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The vengeance Woodpecker.
This dear people is a unfound pearl, I always loved Woodpeckers, but nobody seems to care about them, pokemon will not make a pokemon about it, there is only 1 enemy woodpecker I could find and its from a Donkey Kong game and they are very rare to come by.
But this is just the right thing! Evil Woodpecker Yokai that destroy buildings (but in pathfinder they could be adapted so they destroy everything) with their pecking!! I can see this horrible bird being the brother of the Pathfinder version of the Camulatz (evil parrot)
Awesome monster!! Too bad it kinda has a difficult name.
Even if we don't get a were-template. I'd like some more non-evil and good-alinged were-creatures. Like prehaps kindhearted CG werefoxes, or TN Wereravens, or CN Werecyotes?
What weres would you like to see?
I'd like to see some more traditional Werecreatures, that turn into more monstrous hybrid forms and no full animal form at all, rip their clothes in the transformation process and revert to primal instincts, using claws and teeth to hunt down all the prey they can find.
The slightly more modern version, where they have control over their transformation and remain lucid in beast form would be fine too.
Also all werecreatures should be able to infect others, not only the "natural" ones.
I'm not actually a big fan of the way DnD/Pathfinder lycanthropes work.
I actually decided to follow up on this and create something myself. So if anyone else is interested in a more traditional and feral kind of lycanthrope, look here.
So...after seeing the horror-comedy Grabbers on netflix, I now nominate a monster based on the title creatures for Bestiary 5.
P.S. Great Monster movie....something we are short of nowadays with the glut of zombie/vampire/slasher flicks.
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Troops.
Rasputin Must Die presented a tantalizing tidbit of what was essentially a swarm of Medium-sized creatures. Can we get more of that? Maybe a custom 'Troop Design' system akin to animated objects (a 2 page spread to help us do it ourselves would take up less space than half a dozen actual new troops would).
There are so many things I could do with troop rules, but I'm not great at making enemies from scratch. I usually use established monsters or races and add things like class levels and templates.
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+1 to Troops. Good call Gluttony.
Well, there was the "mob" Template back in 3.5.
But yeah, that would be nice ^_^
+1 if they manage to link it to the army mecanic from Ultimate Campaign.
Grabbers remind me of the Darktentacles from Monster Manual 2 (3rd Edition)
I would like such a creature, or otherwise a land-based octopus creature with an extreme number of tentacles.
I would hate to see the mob template/subtype come back.
Didn't care for the troop template/subtype thing as well.
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I want to see more troop (and army) statblocks, but do think that the bestiary might not be the best place for it. Maybe an Ultimate Monster hardcover?
I get really annoyed that with the current system, it's really difficult to use low-level threats like goblins or orcs for high level characters, unless you throw ridiculous amounts of class levels on them. Doing the latter always leads to the question of "Why were all the goblins level 1 warriors when we started, but now they are all level 8 fighters?"
I wanted to keep it peachfull, but then the talking-sack threw me a love kiss.
I like a pokemon collecting guide better than some strange army guide. I'm with dragon and MMCJawa here, they are nice but not for the bestiary, then you get army orcs and drows, kinda like the Monster Manual 4 and 5 of D&D with their 10 new Mind Flayers and 10 new Drows, HOboglins, Gnolls and whatever else.
A troop isn't a creature, so why would it be in here?
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A swarm isn't A Creature, but there have been various swarms in the bestiaries. Like the bag'to'teeth said, the overwhelming majority of Paizo's customers look at the bestiaries as aids to running Pathfinder games. Just because you have another primary use for it doesn't mean that they should cater to you.
I see a troop as being the intelligent monster equivalent of a swarm.
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I want to see more troop (and army) statblocks, but do think that the bestiary might not be the best place for it. Maybe an Ultimate Monster hardcover?
I get really annoyed that with the current system, it's really difficult to use low-level threats like goblins or orcs for high level characters, unless you throw ridiculous amounts of class levels on them. Doing the latter always leads to the question of "Why were all the goblins level 1 warriors when we started, but now they are all level 8 fighters?"
I certainly agree that a lot of troop statblocks might clog a Bestiary (and I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't want to see troops of monsters they already know taking up pages upon pages of space where new monsters could go).
...But a 'troop-making kit' akin to Animated Objects for the bestiary would only need to come with one example. It would take up a single page, or a two-page spread at most, and could probably have its example dedicated to something that would be relevant for most games like a CR5 'town guard troop' or something along those lines.
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I would have to look at the troop type again from Reign of Winter, but I figured it might be hard to do a standard template. For one, I know at least one designer stated that templates tend to break down in Pathfinder after +2 CR.
Similarly, goblins, gnolls, and drow SHOULD probably game state wise have quite different troops. And that doesn't even take in account class levels, etc.
A troop template could certainly be possible, but I would wonder if it would be too complex or messy.
Also, not really certain if swarms are necessarily equivalent. Most swarms are of small creatures that individually are probably not worth statting up. Whereas Troops are taking a classed monster/race and assembling it in in a swarm style unit.
Just overall feels more appropriate for the NPC codex line than Bestiary. Especially since we don't really have much examples in rulebooks of classed monster/minion races.
I want to see more troop (and army) statblocks, but do think that the bestiary might not be the best place for it. Maybe an Ultimate Monster hardcover?
I tend to agree. As I recall, Brandon mentioned that they didn't really work so much as a template, but was one of those things that needed to be designed specifically for each creature that you're making a troop of.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing some "combined" monster entries that consisted of an individual creature as well as a separate stat block for a troop version of it.
Some examples that come to mind of creatures that I think would be cool to see (although they may be WotC IP): the Sabreclaw (from CM3: Sabre River) and the Horde (elemental hive-mind creature made up of anything from tiny to large creatures from the Companion Rules set).
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I agree troops would fit much better in an NPC codex book. Maybe a monster NPC book with creatures(goblins, drow, centaurs, etc.) with class levels.
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Some more Biblical based monsters. There are some cool/creepy/awesome critters in the bible, I LOVED the Apocalypse Locusts from B4.
Maybe
The First Beast from Revelation
The Second Beast from Revelation
The mounts of the 200 million horsemen from Revelation (body of a horse, head of a lion, tail of a serpent, spits energy at things)
The beast with seven heads and ten horns
Other
Sirrush
Real Life critters
Ambloucetus (walking whale), with rules for having one as an animal companion
Leptictidium, with familiar rules for it
Giant Japenese Hornet - With familiar rules
Chicken- with Familiar Rules
Giant Chicken - with animal companion/mount rules
Aardwolf
Interesting ideas
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A more friendly cousin to the Gnoll, based on the Aardwolf
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He's a giant chicken I tell you, a giant chicken...
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Gnoll armies, goblin armies, hobgoblin armies, spoiling spots for much more interesting creatures. The Horror!
For once I actually agree with Gancanagh.
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If we are going to have a wishlist thread and a "negative wishlist" thread, lets keep the negativity in the latter. I don't reading well-argued reasons why X is more appropriate for Y, but I don't think we need the "I hate that idea and don't want it" posts in this thread.
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Guys please!
A "troop" Template on a 2-page layout with either goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, gnolls, troglodytes, lizardfolks, humans or whatever as the base creature would work. Geez...
It's true that B5 should NEVER do like MM4 and MM5, which both had reprints of existing monsters just for the sake creating a tribe. However, Paizo should give a shot at making something like the mob Template from WotC... except being for a more organized squad structure. A troop template would also be VERY useful for running armies-vs-PCs scenarios. Ultimate Campaign provide army rules, but it's mostly for armies-vs-armies. What if your PC is the commander or a soldier caught in the chaos? Fighting cannon-fodding creatures Inside an army isn't the same nor as easy as fighting them individually. You're essentially caught in a large swarm.
You can get arrows stuck on you, 7 or 8 creatures attacking at once, spells going on and off, there's a lot that happens at the same time. A PC or a group a 4 PCs could face off against a squadron of 12 creatures, fighting as a larger unit.
So yeah, a troop template could be useful.
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Gnoll armies, goblin armies, hobgoblin armies, spoiling spots for much more interesting creatures. The Horror!
This isn't remotely what's being asked for though.
Pages for Gnoll armies and for goblin armies, and for hobgoblin armies and for human armies and so on would indeed be bad. It would take up lots and lots of unnecessary space.
...But that's not what we're asking for.
A simple 2-page spread teaching us how to do it ourselves is all that's necessary. We don't need pages upon pages, so if you're going to complain (which should be kept to the complaints thread), then at least be aware of the fact that you're arguing against something that your opposition isn't asking for in the first place.
A single template for troops wouldn't work very well there are too many factors like race, class(es), level, size, equipment, etc.. It would be like the never used several page long Kajui template, it just doesn't work. It is like asking for mass combat rules in a bestiary. It would be fine in an NPC codex, a combat guide book, a book about war, etc.
If it's just 2 pages in an entire book I wouldn't mind it, but if its true what Dragon and MMCJawa said and it needs more than 2 pages than I think they are better off in another product.
I misunderstood the entire idea and thought people wanted more armies in the bestiary and not just the template.
I'm sorry for that (but not to Kthulhu tho, he's out to get me on anything)
A single template for troops wouldn't work very well there are too many factors like race, class(es), level, size, equipment, etc.. It would be like the never used several page long Kajui template, it just doesn't work. It is like asking for mass combat rules in a bestiary. It would be fine in an NPC codex, a combat guide book, a book about war, etc.
A single template for the animated object worked well enough (although that was less of a template and more of a miniature creature-building system, which is what I was advocating in the first place) and could be used to create a decent variety of constructs depending on your needs. It also only took up a single page.
It couldn't create everything of course. Nothing could cover EVERYTHING. A basic troop-building system would however at least show us how to make some 'basic' varieties of troops, and would make it easier for GMs to design the rest to fit their needs.
(i.e. it's easier to create new homebrew construction abilities for the animated object than it would have been to create the entire animated object system from scratch, and it would likewise be a lot easier for a GM to add on to material from a 2-page troop-building system to cover whatever needs they have that that system doesn't cover than it would be to try and design troops without any system at all.)
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The mob Template back in the DMG 2 was about 2 pages long. However, they had to explain everything, such as Expert Grappler and Trample. Today, many of these elements don't need to be repeated and could be referred to the Swarm subtype. I don't think it would be complicated to add such a template.
Speaking of templates and swarms, how about a Swarm template? Let,s say I want to annoy my PCs with a swarm made of pseudodragons, familiars or other eligible creatures, how do I do that?
Developer
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There's a fairly significant difference between subtypes and templates. You can't just slap a template on an existing creature and come up with a well-balanced swarm of them. Each time you make something a swarm you are building a new monster, not just transforming an existing one into a new form with thousands of its buddies. When doing so, you need to pick your target CR and build it referencing Table 1-1 in the Bestiary, just as if you were building a new monster. Likewise, using the troop subtype as a template doesn't quite work. Each one is like building a new monster.
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There's a fairly significant difference between subtypes and templates. You can't just slap a template on an existing creature and come up with a well-balanced swarm of them. Each time you make something a swarm you are building a new monster, not just transforming an existing one into a new form with thousands of its buddies. When doing so, you need to pick your target CR and build it referencing Table 1-1 in the Bestiary, just as if you were building a new monster. Likewise, using the troop subtype as a template doesn't quite work. Each one is like building a new monster.
Made out of a bunch of smaller monsters.
There's a fairly significant difference between subtypes and templates. You can't just slap a template on an existing creature and come up with a well-balanced swarm of them. Each time you make something a swarm you are building a new monster, not just transforming an existing one into a new form with thousands of its buddies. When doing so, you need to pick your target CR and build it referencing Table 1-1 in the Bestiary, just as if you were building a new monster. Likewise, using the troop subtype as a template doesn't quite work. Each one is like building a new monster.
Which is pretty much what Brandon Hodges said he did when designing the Russian Troops (and others he's done). It definitely doesn't seem like something that would be template-able; at least, not without losing a lot of its luster and function, IMO. Which is why I think- if we see any (and I'd like to see at least one or two, if possible)- they should be done in the split column format for monsters; an individual creature and a troop on one page. That way you're still maximizing page count, but you have a creature that can be used at different CR levels, for different purposes, and it gives you a wider range of options. Win-win!
Yep
I could see a troop section being at the end of each different monster section in a Monster codex. It would make sense to use different levels of monster fighters/warriors/rangers/whatever as the baseline for different troops. That way you can have individual stats for the "survivors" when the troop breaks up.
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"Template" is a bad word to use here, for many of the reasons above.
...Which is why rather than trying to make a template that says "Hey, apply this to a hobgoblin to make a hobgoblin troop, or to a human to make a human troop" it makes more sense to make a non-template system that designs the troop as their own monster.
In other words: "Here are some simple guidelines on how to create a few troops. The standard is a melee troop, this ability costs X number of build points and lets you add a ranged special attack (perhaps to represent archers), and this ability costs X number of build points and adds some spellcasting ability (and so on). None of them are defined however, so feel free to create a CR 5 ranged troop and fluff them as hobgoblins with longbows if that's what you need, while just-as-easily using the same stat block for a troop of human town guards with heavy crossbows in another situation."
i.e. (as I have been saying) don't handle it like a template, handle it like the animated object!
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Found some new critters! Always fun!
- HORERCZY
A german monster (no form or animal is given) that is said to keep a swarm of vampiric (fill in any drain attack here) butterflies inside its maw/stomach which it releases to feed, when the butterflies drained enough blood/energy/whatever they return to their Horerczy master.
Pretty awesome, reminds me of the Mawbrother fish with its brood eating for it.
- HERCINIA
A blue (or red) shining Hummingbird monster that drains people of their luck and vitality.
- CUEYATL
Aztec (poisonarrow) frog monsters that collect (eat poison creatures) poison to become more poisonous themselves.
- TIDDALIk
Australian frog monster, cousin to the Pathfinder Grodair, same abilities.
- PLANCTAE
The land-based versions of the Symplegades or clashing Rocks from greek mythology. Planctae are also known as Wandering Rocks, they are deformed stone-shaped boars/buffalo's or other animals that crush creatures between the two of them, they are always born as duo.
- SARKANY
Know Maleficent (The evil fairy/dragon/shapeshifter) of Disney/Sleeping Beauty? Well this is it, cool evil purple demonic or fey based dragon that can shapeshift.
- DELPHYNE or PYTHON
The greek myth anaconda/python based snake that can look into the future.
- MAMLAMBO
Brain craving/eating Goliath TigerFish like creatures from African mythology.
- ISONADE
Giant shark/dragon monsters that are rarely seen they attack ships with their destructive tails.
- OUROBOROS
Hoop Snake a joke? Imagen a gigantic black dragon-like serpent biting its own tail and crushing everything by rolling over it. The Dragon version of the Hoop Snake.
- OZAENA
Evolved Globsters, with terrible stink and extremly long tentacles.
- FIREBIRD
Evil Phoenix.
- DACTYL
Duergar than went crazy with body-modifications with iron, now its more Iron than flesh left and they became their own creature. These Duergar replaced their flesh with Iron parts.
- FETCH
High CR Shapeshifter/Doppelganger
- CU SITH
Green fae dogs based on plants, you have Aquatic Cu (seaweed + lilies), Desert Cu (cacti), Swamp Cu (venus fly) and Forest Cu (normal with leaves) Cu Siths.
- CUCO
Much more powerful version of the Jack O Lantern.
- CON RIT
Some sea centipede horror, with the same colors as the King of Herrings.
- PLANETNIK
Let these beautiful pictures of the Planetnik do the talking for it!
But they are more awesome versions of the D&D Tempests.
- AGLOOLIK
While this creature is suppose to be kind and gentle, I want it to become a different creature, one that helps fishermen and people get a lot of food so that they all grow fat and lazy so they become easy prey for the Agloolik, the Agloolik is a Leopardseal version of the Selkie.
- CAMAZOTZ
The king and lord of all bat monsters, there are actually more than one of these and they rule over entire continents. Vampires also look at them as gods and leaders.
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Once Upon a Time in Wonderland has an awesome EVIL EVIL Cheshire Cat.
I'm in love with it and I want one for Bestiary 5, what would you want with a good one anyway? Pet it until it says Meow? Nah, some killing invisible horror cat would be a far better idea.
Yeah, i'm feeling like the Red Queen.
I would really like the Tigerbears (for nostalgic reasons, I was in love with their picture in my first fairytail book.) and the FLying Baboons from the Wiz of Oz, and the creatures with the long neck and hammer heads.
I'm not really in to a familiar version of the CHesire Cat, I want it to be a rather powerful small creature.
Also a question to MMCJawa about Maleficent from the Sleeping Beauty fairytale. Are there faeries/dragons/shapeshifters in real mythology/folklore that behave/look or who were the inspiration for this character/monster? She's an evil fairy or something that can take dragon forms..
I would really like the Tigerbears (for nostalgic reasons, I was in love with their picture in my first fairytail book.) and the FLying Baboons from the Wiz of Oz, and the creatures with the long neck and hammer heads.
I'm not really in to a familiar version of the CHesire Cat, I want it to be a rather powerful small creature.
Also a question to MMCJawa about Maleficent from the Sleeping Beauty fairytale. Are there faeries/dragons/shapeshifters in real mythology/folklore that behave/look or who were the inspiration for this character/monster? She's an evil fairy or something that can take dragon forms..
Um...off the top of my head no, although there are plenty of stories involving people cursed into dragon form by witches or fairies.
I mean Maleficent is a fairy queen...I assume her power to shapeshift isn't racial, but an acquired skill (i.e. NPC)
Although I am not sure what sort of Fairy would work best in Pathfinder to build into Maleficent. Maybe Norn?
Melusine might be be the closest match for Fey who turns into a dragon, although medieval artwork paints her more as a dragon tauric creature
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Once Upon a Time in Wonderland has an awesome EVIL EVIL Cheshire Cat.
I'm in love with it and I want one for Bestiary 5, what would you want with a good one anyway? Pet it until it says Meow? Nah, some killing invisible horror cat would be a far better idea.
Yeah, i'm feeling like the Red Queen.
The Red Queen is just a template that adds collagen and silicon.
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Slenderman essentially already exists. I think he's in the Inner Sea Bestiary.
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I just bought Bestiary 4 today and I saw the Sacristan Kyton. I like it. Reminds me of a certain fan made supplement for D&D/D20 modern that I liked. Can we get some more "not-a-cenobite" kytons like that in Bestiary 5?
Search tome of slenderotica on the boards. It will give you everything needed for a slenderman game. Including a statblock for the big nasty itself.
I would like to see the Cheshire Cat as a CR6-9 small size CN magical beast. Maybe with natural invisibility and the a short range teleport ability. Or at least a natural displacement ability and invisibility as a spell like ability at will.
I would like the Cheshire Cat to have the enlarge and minimize spells so it can alter its size.
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I am reading an anthology of short horror by Laird Barron at the moment, and a few nights ago finished the short story "Proboscis".
Anyway, the monster in that short story (which pretty much stayed offscreen) was pretty much hinted to be some sort of cosmic assassin bug abberation. So I will add that to the wishlist.
Going with a literal interpretations:
Intelligent Assassin bug like Aberration with the ability to take human form (either via shapeshifting or glamour) as camouflage, to allow it to get close to it's prey (humans). Even in "human" form though the person seems "off". Than uses it's proboscis to drain the blood and/or brains of it's prey. Can then the raise the corpses as zombies, although zombies that perhaps act more like the pod spawn template from B4 than typical zombies