| 23 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Question unclear. |
Since its coming back up and the old thread already had a "answered in FAQ" with no answer I could find I'm going to reposit this in an attempt to seek an answer.
Q: If a character gains the ability to select something from another classes list (sorcerer bloodline, gunslinger deed etc.) can the character choose abilities from an archetype of that class( wild blooded bloodlines, Pistolero, etc.) or must it be chosen from abilities from the base version of the class?
Please hit FAQ regardless of opinion.
Base version.
You need to select it from the base class, as the ability to pick from a archetype would make that ability overpowered, and with certain combinations, broken.
Please hit the FAQ button at the top of the page
...or accept that the forum is giving you answers as you requested in your first post? Not everything needs to be FAQ'd.
While I am fine with answers being given in thread if you have the time to post then it takes seconds longer to also click that button. I already know how I believe this to be run but that doesn't mean that an official answer isn't warranted. I'm not asking for zero post other than my own I'm asking for 2 clicks of your mouse while your here.
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You're asking for my recommendation that the paizo staff take time to look at your post; it's more than two clicks and I don't think it is warranted.
You need to select it from the base class, as the ability to pick from a archetype would make that ability overpowered, and with certain combinations, broken.
I disagree. Would you like to give examples of overpowered combinations?
I am not understanding the question. Do you have a specific example?
There was a thread late last over taking wildblooded bloodlines with eldritch heritage. It went back and forth about if you could take them since they were listed as an archtype. I started a thread looking for clarification (since the original was about a different question) and in it people not only advocated wildblooded being fine but thing like using amatuer gunslinger to gain Up Close and Personal from the Pistolero.
The wildblooded thing should have never been an archetype, but that is another debate for another day. RAW I don't think it works, but RAI I think it does once they get around to it.
The gunslinger example is a good example. I think intent is the base class, but RAW disagrees so I did hit the FAQ button.
For those of you so sure in your answers as to believe we need no clarification. Would you care to elaborate on what leads you to those conclusions?
As a DM I'd allow someone to take, say, fast musket.
But RAW I don't think it works that way.
For those of you so sure in your answers as to believe we need no clarification. Would you care to elaborate on what leads you to those conclusions?
It's simply a matter of abilities doing what they say they do, and nothing more. Eldritch Heritage, for example, allows you to pick a bloodline. It doesn't say it grants access to the sorcerer's alternate class abilities/archetypes, so it doesn't.
Since its coming back up and the old thread already had a "answered in FAQ" with no answer I could find I'm going to reposit this in an attempt to seek an answer.
Q: If a character gains the ability to select something from another classes list (sorcerer bloodline, gunslinger deed etc.) can the character choose abilities from an archetype of that class( wild blooded bloodlines, Pistolero, etc.) or must it be chosen from abilities from the base version of the class?
Please hit FAQ regardless of opinion.
I think your question is too general it depends on what you are referring to exactly, wildblooded is an archetype but do not actually change the bloodline, only the combination of bloodline and archetype gives you those powers. Personally think they should never be archetypes but variant bloodlines or some such, in a home game I'd allow it without issue, unless of course I ban it for another reason (too powerful, or making no sense somehow) but that is another thing entirely.
For those of you so sure in your answers as to believe we need no clarification. Would you care to elaborate on what leads you to those conclusions?It's simply a matter of abilities doing what they say they do, and nothing more. Eldritch Heritage, for example, allows you to pick a bloodline. It doesn't say it grants access to the sorcerer's alternate class abilities/archetypes, so it doesn't.
The argument here that comes up is it says bloodline and they are bloodlines. Same with the gunslinger example they are 1st level deeds but they require the archetype to gain.
An archetype is an alternate variation of a class. In order to choose archetype abilities, you must have levels in that archetype, most if not all abilities say something like "starting at 3rd level, the archetype name gains the ability to...".
So don't think of archetype as a pick list - that is not what they are. If you want the 5th level ability from an archetype, then your ranger needs to gain 5 levels in that archetype to pick it.
So if you want to play for example, the Dalek Stomping Barbarian Rager and gain auto confirm critical threats against pepper pot shaped creatures, then you have to play that as your class in place of straight Barbarian, or as a multiclass - e.g. A 5th level character with 2nd level barbarian, 3rd level Dalek Stomper.
Archetype = alternate class, specialized, but alternate just the same. Treat them as class choices, not pick lists.
They are basically "flavors" of a class.
Now that said
There is nothing to stop you as a GM with having a house rule that class x in your campaigns have ability a at 1st level from base, b at 3rd level from archetype y, c at 5th level from archetype z, and do on. It's your game as GM after all.
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I actually did FAQ this and here is why. While RAW, I believe the Amateur Gunslinger feat only allows deed choice from the base gunslinger, I am unsure seeing as archetypes modify base classes. My reasoning was I wanted to play a fighter with the Up Close and Deadly deed. RAW, the answer is probably no (and understandably so). We are playing a level 20 gladiator match for fun and so it's not a matter of "If your DM allows it" since no one is DMing. Yes, Pistolero is probably a better gun based class than fighter, but I'm looking to do more than just gunsling.
As for eldritch heritage is another example since the feat reads "choose a sorcerer bloodline" and Wildblooded reads "A wildblooded sorcerer has a mutated form of a more common bloodline." The text is almost straight forward with a dash of doubt.
I think the biggest issue to consider is that the people who write archetypes and the people who write feats may not be the same people, as is the exact case with the Armor Master archetype and the Stalwart/Improved Stalwart feats. Here
While I understand it's easiest to interpret rules in the strictest of sense, some questions are indeed warranted for developer comment even if it's just "I don't know, that's a good question, let's stew on it."
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Please hit FAQ regardless of opinion.
This is going to come off jerky, but I promise I'm being 100% serious.
Why would I hit FAQ regardless of opinion? If I don't think the question is worthy of developer attention, I would rather not encourage their attention on an issue when I'd rather they were paying attention to something else.
An archetype is an alternate variation of a class. In order to choose archetype abilities, you must have levels in that archetype, most if not all abilities say something like "starting at 3rd level, the archetype name gains the ability to...".
So don't think of archetype as a pick list - that is not what they are. If you want the 5th level ability from an archetype, then your ranger needs to gain 5 levels in that archetype to pick it.
So if you want to play for example, the Dalek Stomping Barbarian Rager and gain auto confirm critical threats against pepper pot shaped creatures, then you have to play that as your class in place of straight Barbarian, or as a multiclass - e.g. A 5th level character with 2nd level barbarian, 3rd level Dalek Stomper.
That doesn't work -- multiclassing is allowed only with distinct classes. Once you have taken first level in a class, you do not have the option of "starting over" in that class by taking a different archetype, specialty, domain, or other class variant.