Wow. Just... wow. That was the most unoriginal, uninspired load of drek I've had the misfortune of seeing in quite some time.
** spoiler omitted **
I saw this movie 25 years ago - when it was called Wrath of Khan and was (is) ten times better.
(With all that said, it was still better than I thought it would be... McCoy is still the best, and it was nice to see a tad more screen time with Scotty.)
and people say I go overboard.....wow.
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From what I'm reading/hearing, it still doesn't get into how <redacted> was found in the alternate timeline?
<Redacted> says in the movie that after the incident with Nero, Admiral Marcus sent many ships exporing uncharted areas, and one of them found his ship and crew.
At a guess: the crew was probably paranoid and probably put him in the brig, or brought them all back to earth before reviving.
and people say I go overboard.....wow.
Heh... I thought I'd throw it all out there!
But hardly "overboard". It was unoriginal and it was uninspired. And the <redacted> yell was stupid as hell. Even people around me in the theater booed.
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I don't think we need to (spoiler) anything from a 1982 movie.
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I don't think I'd agree with that assessment. On one hand, it teaches him to listen to the advice of people he trusts. Scotty balks over the torpedoes - Kirk comes to realize he's right. Spock badgers him into rethinking the morality of the mission - Kirk agrees which leads to the exposure of the main plot. In both of those cases, failure to listen leads to or would lead to trouble.
I'd say a lot of people learn that authority and power clearly don't make anyone trustworthy and it's good to have a surprise play at hand.
Also, it shows right at the beginning that actions do have consequences. Kirk chooses to completely disregard the prime directive to save Spock and promptly gets his ship yanked out from under him and sent back to the academy. From where he is rescued by his personal friend into being first officer on the Enterprise and then gets back command of the ship by, um, "luck", but aside from the power of nepotism ( and intrigue ), it is shown that his being super gung-ho and trying to be not accountable to the rules simply doesn't work out well for him.
Spoony did a Vlog for the movie here, if anyone is interested.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Pish posh, magnuskn. It works out great!!
No consequences for bad stuff. He not only violates the Prime Directive to save his officer, but he lies on his official report and (1) gets a second chance and gets the job of first officer on the Enterprise, and (b) gets command of a real ship by the end of the movie.
No consequences for heroic stuff. He sacrifices himself to save the Enterprise. No permanent consequences. He disobeys direct orders from an admiral. No court martial.
No consequences for personal stuff. He demands that Scotty resign. He blows Uhura's diplomacy. He turns around to see Carol undressed after she told him not to. Scotty's still a pal. Uhura doesn't hold a grudge. Carol's still happy to be part of his family.
Kirk is just awesome. All those lens flares just make his teeth sparkle.
Pish posh, magnuskn. It works out great!!
No consequences for bad stuff. He not only violates the Prime Directive to save his officer, but he lies on his official report and (1) gets a second chance and gets the job of first officer on the Enterprise, and (b) gets command of a real ship by the end of the movie.
As I said, nepotism.
No consequences for heroic stuff. He sacrifices himself to save the Enterprise. No permanent consequences. He disobeys direct orders from an admiral. No court martial.
I'll send a note of my stern disapproval to every action movie hero ever.
No consequences for personal stuff. He demands that Scotty resign. He blows Uhura's diplomacy. He turns around to see Carol undressed after she told him not to. Scotty's still a pal. Uhura doesn't hold a grudge. Carol's still happy to be part of his family.
Kirk is just awesome. All those lens flares just make his teeth sparkle.
And how exactly is this different and makes the new version worse than the old series?
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Right, that's how the movie starts and then it proceeds to make him realize that he can't just hare off and do whatever he wants.
Wow, some people seem absolutely determined to hate this movie. I thought it was so far the best movie I have seen this year.
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Most people whine that it can't compare to Wrath of Khan. It can't. It purposefully tries to be a different take on the Khan thing. I for one loved the acting and the bromance.
Sweeping generalizations are so awesome.
He blows Uhura's diplomacy.I think actually it was <redacted> who fired first in that fight. Kirk and Co are actually the last ones to enter the fray.
Yeah - you don't get to blame Kirk for that.
Plus ** spoiler omitted **
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magnuskn, I have somehow given you the opinion that I didn't like the movie. My inept posting style, probably. I liked it. But it sets up Kirk's cockiness, an important part of his character during the television series. As opposed to Wrath of Khan, which knocked it down. That was the comparison I was making.
Yep, Kirk thought he was going to die. That's what makes his actions heroic. But he didn't. That's what makes his life charmed.
Some people would be haunted, thinking they were living on borrowed time. Some people would resign from Star Fleet, seeing how easily a single admiral could lead it so disastrously wrong. Some people would be trapped living the life that Chris Pike would have wanted them to live, never able to live up to that ideal.
Oh. From my perspective, Uhura's diplomacy was going south -- telling Klingons that they are in danger and need help was probably the wrong tactic -- but I'm not sure that physical violence isn't part of Klingon negotiation. And you're right, Khan shot first, but if he hadn't, Kirk would have.
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Han solo shot first!
Anyway, where is it shown that Kirk doesn't get that his cockiness cost him his ship, his mentor and nearly his crew? That moment when he
The fact that he survived doesn't mean that his life is charmed (we know it is, but he doesn't). It just means that he was lucky this time. And i think that he learned that he might not be lucky next time.
You all need to keep in mind something else.
In Wrath of Khan Kirk is in his 50's/60's and is an Admiral.
He's made a career's worth of choices.
In the new one, he hasn't even started his 5 year mission yet.
He's only just begun.
Worse, the Kirk of the original series was in the academy for, what, 14 years before getting his ship? This one went from cadet to captain in one day.
I still think that he learnt his lesson in responsibility. We'll see next movie.
A question a co-worker asked:
So if you can bring back somebody from the dead with Khan's blood, why not keep it around and use it, like all the time.
Have a monthly or yearly shot of it to never age?
Heck, they synthesized it. Nobody in Trek continuity will ever die again.
Nope.
Lens flare is posionous.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Han solo shot first!
Anyway, where is it shown that Kirk doesn't get that his cockiness cost him his ship, his mentor and nearly his crew? That moment when he ** spoiler omitted **
The fact that he survived doesn't mean that his life is charmed (we know it is, but he doesn't). It just means that he was lucky this time. And i think that he learned that he might not be lucky next time.
Worse, the Kirk of the original series was in the academy for, what, 14 years before getting his ship? This one went from cadet to captain in one day.
I still think that he learnt his lesson in responsibility. We'll see next movie.
Fourteen years in the Academy?!? I'd like to see the citation on that one. Memory Alpha has him entering the Academy in 2250 and serving as a Lieutenant on the USS Farragut (meaning he had graduated) before 2255. He gains his first command in 2264 so that 14 years is right in one area, but not for spending all that time in the Academy.
It's true that the movies do compress the timeline substantially. From entering the Academy to command was 14 years according to Memory Alpha in TOS, in the movies, it's more like three years. Entering the Academy around 2255 and taking command of the Enterprise as acting Captain in 2258 and then taking full command, being busted down for violating the Prime Directive and hiding it in 2259, and then becoming Captain again shortly thereafter..
Ah, so it was 14 years from Academy to command, that's what it was.
If you say so.
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I might have let it slide if it was just a generic space movie. But this is STAR TREK, which at its heart is about an optimistic future society where humanity has actually achieved lofty ambitions like equality.
Lets consider the female characters in this film:
Uhura - Most of her character stuff involves humanizing the male Spock, in addition her one contribution (Diplomacy) goes hilariously wrong.
Dr Carol Marcus - After being touted as a brilliant scientist, she doesn't actually get to do anything super intelligent at all. She saves the doctor by punching the torpedo. Oh yes, and she gets into her undies to show a character trait of KIRK's. Which by the way was completely unnecessary because we already established that when he awoke with two sexy alien cat-girls in his bedroom. But guess which gets used again and again in the promos? Hell's bells she even gets kidnapped and needs rescuing by men.
Remember every scene that happens in that movie was written by someone, then filmed by someone, then edited by someone and then put into a film (all of which would have been approved by someone). That means that JJ Abrams made a deliberate choice to titillate and objectify a character in a movie that's supposed to exist in a universe of optimistic equality. Which I guess only applies to race but not to gender.
EVEN PUTTING THAT ASIDE:
In the council of Admirals how many female human admirals were there (hint: who knows they didn't make any significant contributions to the scene).
So yes, I do say so.
Damon Lindelof has admitted the scene was gratuitous and apologized for it.
(And oh, the irony of a blog post chiding moviemakers for objectifying a female character with a lingerie scene headed by a large picture of the the scene itself.)
I might have let it slide if it was just a generic space movie. But this is STAR TREK, which at its heart is about an optimistic future society where humanity has actually achieved lofty ambitions like equality.
Lets consider the female characters in this film:
Uhura - Most of her character stuff involves humanizing the male Spock, in addition her one contribution (Diplomacy) goes hilariously wrong.
Dr Carol Marcus - After being touted as a brilliant scientist, she doesn't actually get to do anything super intelligent at all. She saves the doctor by punching the torpedo. Oh yes, and she gets into her undies to show a character trait of KIRK's. Which by the way was completely unnecessary because we already established that when he awoke with two sexy alien cat-girls in his bedroom. But guess which gets used again and again in the promos? Hell's bells she even gets kidnapped and needs rescuing by men.
Remember every scene that happens in that movie was written by someone, then filmed by someone, then edited by someone and then put into a film (all of which would have been approved by someone). That means that JJ Abrams made a deliberate choice to titillate and objectify a character in a movie that's supposed to exist in a universe of optimistic equality. Which I guess only applies to race but not to gender.EVEN PUTTING THAT ASIDE:
In the council of Admirals how many female human admirals were there (hint: who knows they didn't make any significant contributions to the scene).
So yes, I do say so.
ooooooookaaaaaaay.....
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I might have let it slide if it was just a generic space movie. But this is STAR TREK, which at its heart is about an optimistic future society where humanity has actually achieved lofty ambitions like equality.
Lets consider the female characters in this film:
Uhura - Most of her character stuff involves humanizing the male Spock, in addition her one contribution (Diplomacy) goes hilariously wrong.
Dr Carol Marcus - After being touted as a brilliant scientist, she doesn't actually get to do anything super intelligent at all. She saves the doctor by punching the torpedo. Oh yes, and she gets into her undies to show a character trait of KIRK's. Which by the way was completely unnecessary because we already established that when he awoke with two sexy alien cat-girls in his bedroom. But guess which gets used again and again in the promos? Hell's bells she even gets kidnapped and needs rescuing by men.
Remember every scene that happens in that movie was written by someone, then filmed by someone, then edited by someone and then put into a film (all of which would have been approved by someone). That means that JJ Abrams made a deliberate choice to titillate and objectify a character in a movie that's supposed to exist in a universe of optimistic equality. Which I guess only applies to race but not to gender.
<snip>So yes, I do say so.
Pretty selective, there. How about Uhura going to help Spock against one of the few guys who can severely kick everybody's ass? Or Carol taking a stand against her father/admiral? And even though Uhura's shot at diplomacy goes wrong, how is facing a pack of Klingons alone not a big deal and give the movie some gutsy, tough woman cred?
It's too bad they didn't give Alice Eve mnore to work with. I am a red blooded male who like eye candy as much as anyone, but I did kinda expect Carol Marcus to have more presence. Anyone who can make a lasting impresion on Kirk Prime should have more to do than just window dressing.
I kinda find watching Alice Eve's work depressing at times. It strikes me that unless you are a hot shot starfleet captain, a movie star with enough cash to join Mark Cuban in a tequila IPO or a Pittsburgh airport security screener, you have no chance at ever dating someone like her. She is simply out of your league.
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Yeah, the girls do get some shots in.
They are still objectified, made redundant or straight up damselled. This movie is problematic on a number of levels.
It's a big, fun, stupid action movie with none of the heart or philosophical conscience of Star Trek.
It's a big improvement on the original series in that area. TOS fails with regard to anything approaching sexual equality in many episodes, probably none more blatantly than "The Lights of Zetar."
And I'll bet you the box office earnings of the current movie that Uhura 2.0 is never going to utter the line "Captain, I'm frightened."
Who'd you think he was gonna be, Harcourt Fenton Mudd?
Who'd you think he was gonna be, Harcourt Fenton Mudd?
Seriously a problem with sexism in the new film though.
Not just women, but more non-whites - especially in the command council would have been a good move.
It's a big improvement on the original series in that area. TOS fails with regard to anything approaching sexual equality in many episodes, probably none more blatantly than "The Lights of Zetar."
TOS deserves more credit. Remember when it was made, the late 1960s. I can assure you that it was ENORMOUS progress given the time.
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I'm not in an uproar about it, but you have to admit that a white guy with a British accent introducing himself as Khan Noonian Singh would get at least one question concerning his name. Hong Kong historically has a large British presence as well, but a white guy named Chow Yun Fat would raise some eyebrows.
I worked with a 6' 4" white guy who had the last name Hong. He did not look Asian in the slightest. So, may be a white guy named Singh might not be entirely out of the question...
Still, as much as I like Benedict Cumberbatch, I think someone more ethnically appropriate would have been cool. On the positive side, it is a good movie (if you are willing to enjoy it) and Cumberbatch is awesome in the role.
As for continuity of the Star Trek timeline or the alternate timeline or the alternate timeline of the alternate timeline, who cares. Star Trek always had some weird moralising and could be kind of boring with the filler episodes. The films also tended to be slow and cumbersome, so Abrams "reboot" has made them more fun.
As for Star Wars, can he really do any worse than Episode I? I wish they would not reanimate Fisher, Ford and Hamil for the new films. Do something... new... may be? I have a dream...
(Teddy Hell for him if he does!)
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As for continuity of the Star Trek timeline or the alternate timeline or the alternate timeline of the alternate timeline, who cares. Star Trek always had some weird moralising and could be kind of boring with the filler episodes.
This was much less of a problem with Star Trek in the original series.
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The first seasons of DS9 are unbearable, but it gets way, waaaay better on with the Dominion War in later seasons. Because they stole the multi-season arc storyline idea from Babylon 5. ^^
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JJA is notorious for objecifying women in everything he does..I'll expect a few Cheesecake shots in the New Star Wars Trilogy now.
And I too loved the later DS9's..and don't forget O'Brien and Bashir were Roleplayers..oh lord what we could do with a Holodeck..
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Edit: On noes, womyn.
I don't see any problem wish sexuality when used as part of the character. The (intent) behind the fan dance in Trek V, the Orion women being weaponized sex kittens in Enterprise, etc. Likewise with the eye candy of Kevin Sorbo and Kevin Smith (RIP) in Hercules.
Even in BSG, the scenes in the head, while giving us the lovely Kandyse McClure in a bra, served to emphasize the co-ed nature. I didn't see that 'shoving equality down my throat' anymore than I saw Sam's Marriage (Or Sister Clarice's!) in Caprica doing the same.
OTOH, I always dreamed that Carol!Prime shot Kirk!Prime down, which made him want her more.
Now the naked Boomers got a little ridiculous... Not that I complain overmuch.
JJA is notorious for objecifying women in everything he does..I'll expect a few Cheesecake shots in the New Star Wars Trilogy now.
And I too loved the later DS9's..and don't forget O'Brien and Bashir were Roleplayers..oh lord what we could do with a Holodeck..
Have you read LarpTrek!, very funny.