| Rhinox |
So here's the deal:
I've been playing as a Halfling Bard in a non-evil campaign. I was kidnapped by a Shadow Demon and interrogated, and long story short I walked out as a Half-Fiend Halfling with my alignment shifted from CG to NE.
I want to try and get back to at least neutral, but is that even possible? I know the template states evil alignment, but I am not sure if that's designed for NPC's or what.
This is especially an issue because I have a paladin in the group, who will be forced to kill me if he manages to find a way through the alignment concealment and discovers I am currently evil.
| Icyshadow |
It is possible to shift your alignment, as you are a Native Outsider instead of an Extraplanar one with the Evil sub-type. Also, that Paladin will lose his powers if he just suddenly attacks you just because his Detect Evil pings you as Evil. Worse still, he'd be attacking a former ally without proper provocation, and he should know better. I suggest you RP the alignment shift, have Atonement cast on you, or both.
Also probably have a talk with the DM and the Paladin's player about his "kill first, ask questions later" antics.
| Rhinox |
To clarify, I assumed he had to kill me if I was pinged as evil. He is LG, and is adamantly against all evil, but I realize now that really the only things we've faced that are evil were attacking us first.
I am a fairly new player that is still learning all the different aspects of the game. How long does it take to shift one's alignment through RP? Or where could I find Atonement?
| Icyshadow |
Extraplanar Outsiders are affected by certain spells and immune to others. They can be banished from the Material Plane, while a Native Outsider cannot since it "belongs" to that dimension, so to speak. Your friend's Paladin does NOT have to kill you. Heck, if your character is from the same group he should hear you out and try to purify you. Clerics can cast Atonement as a spell. It costs a bit, but it should fix the alignment.
If you want to change your alignment through RP, that's something a DM determines. Hopefully it all works out.
| Calybos1 |
Definitely talk to your GM. Having an alignment change forced on you raises a TON of questions, including how much free will you have to act against your new 'nature.'
Deliberate, nonmagical alignment change is possible in the game. Unless the GM says there's a magical-compulsion element to it, you should be free to behave the way you want.
| Claxon |
Either your character was turned evil by the magical transformation form Halfling to Half-Fiend, or it wasn't magically changed, in which case it's unlikely to have changed at all.
So, either you are now unrepentantly evil (though you remember your past but think the old you just was a moron) and will act as an evil character should. This means doing things for your own personal gain, and even if you resume activity with your group, you should probably have some sort of long term plan to try to kill them. If your alignment is evil you should play it as evil. It shouldn't be, well I was turned magically evil but I know I didn't use to be so now I'm going to just act like I did before. In regards to good and evil, your character is the complete opposite of the way he was before.
If your character wasn't magically compelled to evil as part of the transformation then you're still completely you (as you were before) with a sweet upgrade to your power. Thank your GM for the free upgrade.
I have a feeling that theres going to be GM magical compulsion that made you evil, and you should play yourself as an evil antagonist. Hopefully when your party encounters you they can knock you out and use some magic to return you to your former alignment and state of mind.
Of course, this is all subject to what your GM says about how the whole thing works, since alignment is one of those issues that is pretty much the complete purview of the GM. My opinion is just how I would have it play out.
Weirdo
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Do talk to your GM about forced alignment change, but I think it makes sense to play the compulsion as incomplete. You now have strong violent urges that are difficult to resist, and which drag you towards evil, but you don't really want to be evil.
Some forms of forced alignment change do specifically say you enjoy your new alignment, but I don't think that has to (or should) apply to all such instances.
| Rhinox |
I was in fact magically transformed to Half-Fiend and thus became evil. So far, the only way it seems to be effecting me is I had to roll some will saves against some base urges, and I seem to be incessantly hungry for meat.
I will talk to him about if I should be acting more evil. Cuz so far I've just been trying to counteract it as much as I can through RP.
| Claxon |
Do talk to your GM about forced alignment change, but I think it makes sense to play the compulsion as incomplete. You now have strong violent urges that are difficult to resist, and which drag you towards evil, but you don't really want to be evil.
Some forms of forced alignment change do specifically say you enjoy your new alignment, but I don't think that has to (or should) apply to all such instances.
Are there any other examples of forced alignment changes within the game?
I honestly feel like if you force an alignment change it has to come with caveat of "You like who you are now better" or else your alignment doesn't really change. What you're describing is more an affect to change someone's alignment and their resistance to it. Some perverse magic has affected you and now you must make will saves against it or else you "black out" and commit attrocities. If this happens enough times your alignment starts shifting (or abruptly shifts depending on the act).
If youre alignment is currently CE evil your character doesn't have thoughts like, "I don't want to kill that puppy for no reason because I wouldn't have done it before". Instead your charaacter thinks, "What have I been missing all these years?!?! Puppy murder is awesome!"
| Darth Grall |
I find it a bit odd to go from CG to LE. First, it was a Demon(the chaotic evil bastards) so making you not chaotic seems... an unusual choice.
First, I'd negotiate with the DM to make you CE, not NE. Cause the change to evil, would & should leave you as a semblance of your former sense. Like said previously, you'd more or less be yourself just you'd hold different opinions on the sanctity of life and morality.
Say you have to stop an Father from publically beating his son in a Tavern as it's disrupting customers. As CG, you might have decked him out or threaten him for oppressng his son. Either way, you ultimately achieving a good goal. A CE, you'd outright kill him or seeing nothing wrong with beating you children you might threaten the employer for imposing on the father's rights. Either way, ultimately an evil goal; but you'd go about it in essentialy the same ways, only differing along good vs evil axis'.
That should help you with the RP aspects of playing out your new alignment till you get fixed.
Now as for getting an atonement(or even a wish/miracle to fix you), the problem is you might not actually have a problem with the way you're acting. Not many Vampires decide they don't dig their new evil status and seek out a cleric to atonement them back. So even if it works... you friends/party members may have to drag you kicking and screaming if they can't give you a good reason(or a good bluff as the case might require).
Have fun with that.
| Rhinox |
I'll will definitely check with my DM.
To provide a little more context on the "urges":
They seem to be centered around my left hand. When I was being interrogated (as stated towards the beginning), I lost three fingers on my left hand. Upon release, the demon restored my hand as well as turned me half-fiend, with the alignment shift to boot, by teleporting me out of the dungeon where I was held.
So far my character has not been acting too different. However, my hand will twitch involuntarily, often associated with some outside stimulus around me. For example, a party member and I where going through town for information, and stopped by a brothel to talk to people about ways to get around certain ridiculous laws of the town. My DM asked if we wanted to buy any women. He said no, and I said no. The DM then looks at me and says "Well, actually you do. And your hand is twitching." A will save was rolled, and luckily I was successful, but I don't have a clue as to what would have happened if I had failed. The whole situation is fairly mysterious. Considering my character doesn't know details in-character, my DM seems to want to keep it a mystery out-of-character as well.
There's a lot of complexities to the situation.
| Zhayne |
So here's the deal:
I've been playing as a Halfling Bard in a non-evil campaign. I was kidnapped by a Shadow Demon and interrogated, and long story short I walked out as a Half-Fiend Halfling with my alignment shifted from CG to NE.
I want to try and get back to at least neutral, but is that even possible? I know the template states evil alignment, but I am not sure if that's designed for NPC's or what.
This is especially an issue because I have a paladin in the group, who will be forced to kill me if he manages to find a way through the alignment concealment and discovers I am currently evil.
Well, firstly, I question that, as what happened to you wasn't your fault, and you're obviously not going down that path. If anybody deserves a shot at redemption, it's you.
Secondly, you're a free-willed individual. You choose your own path. Alignment follows actions, not the other way around. Do good things, and you become good, simple as that.
| Darth Grall |
Mikaze wrote:Me neither.Rhinox wrote:My DM asked if we wanted to buy any women. He said no, and I said no. The DM then looks at me and says "Well, actually you do. And your hand is twitching."I can't say I'm a fan of this approach as a player or a GM.
Allow me to third that.
Like recently, I recently made a player when Dominated(a paladin actually failed a save for once) go into a sort of creepy situation; but that's a compulsion effect. Unless it is something corresponding to a spell like that I am highly wary of a DM putting any words in a players mouth.
Weirdo
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OP, you need a chat with the GM. It can be fun to play a character who is operating under a persistent compulsion/possession/temptation effect. But that's the sort of thing that really needs the player's wholehearted cooperation to succeed if it's going to go on for any length of time. You need to know and be OK with the fact that your PC is going to have these impulses and you need to be willing to RP struggling and possibly succumbing to them.
Weirdo wrote:Some forms of forced alignment change do specifically say you enjoy your new alignment, but I don't think that has to (or should) apply to all such instances.Are there any other examples of forced alignment changes within the game?
Acquiring an "any evil" template, hence the OP. Because if alignment shift wasn't part of getting the template, we'd have a lot of nonevil vampires running around whenever a vampire drains an innocent/hero.
I honestly feel like if you force an alignment change it has to come with caveat of "You like who you are now better" or else your alignment doesn't really change. What you're describing is more an affect to change someone's alignment and their resistance to it. Some perverse magic has affected you and now you must make will saves against it or else you "black out" and commit attrocities. If this happens enough times your alignment starts shifting (or abruptly shifts depending on the act).
If youre alignment is currently CE evil your character doesn't have thoughts like, "I don't want to kill that puppy for no reason because I wouldn't have done it before". Instead your character thinks, "What have I been missing all these years?!?! Puppy murder is awesome!"
Which is a good reason to play this sort of alignment change as gradual and based on how the character handles the evil impulses. Not necessarily an argument that someone who gets an "always evil" template instantly embraces the evil lifestyle. That works too - it's just the difference between Buffy's "become vampire, lose soul" dynamic and White Wolf's vampires slowly but surely giving in to the Beast.
| Rhinox |
My DM asked if we wanted to buy any women. He said no, and I said no. The DM then looks at me and says "Well, actually you do. And your hand is twitching."
Mikaze wrote:I can't say I'm a fan of this approach as a player or a GM.
Zhayne wrote:Me neither.
Darth Grall wrote:Allow me to third that.
Can I ask you guys to explain what you mean here? I don't see what you're referring to.
| MrSin |
Its usually looked down upon to take control out of the players hands. Also the way its asked if you want to do something then your told what you want is sort of awkward.
It looks like someone wants to force you into being evil, which is something you probably want to talk about between player and GM before it happens to see if your okay with it. The worst thing about being forced into evil in a way that your being told what you want is that you might be set up to turn on your friends or commit actions that you never do as a player, but happen behind the screen as part of plot.
| Arturick |
Can I ask you guys to explain what you mean here? I don't see what you're referring to.
Any time the DM starts telling you, the player, what your character wants or is going to do (outside the realm of blatant magical compulsion), alarm bells start to go off. It seems like some clarification is needed to establish what sort of situation you are in:
A. Your character has legitimately changed alignment and has a new world view. If this is the case, you have to decide if you want to play the new alignment. If you don't, then ask the GM if you can resume your old alignment. If he says no, then you hand him the sheet because clearly it is now his character, not yours.
B. Your character is possessed. If you want to be free from the evil, you need to look into an exorcism.
C. Your hand is possessed. See above, but consider cutting your hand off.
If your character is possessed, then GM should be more explicit in saying things like, "You start to say that you don't want any women, but something inside you feels compelled to say that you do. Make a Will save."
If the GM is just telling you how to play your character, then he's possibly a jerk.
| Zhayne |
Rhinox wrote:Can I ask you guys to explain what you mean here? I don't see what you're referring to.My DM asked if we wanted to buy any women. He said no, and I said no. The DM then looks at me and says "Well, actually you do. And your hand is twitching."
Mikaze wrote:I can't say I'm a fan of this approach as a player or a GM.
Zhayne wrote:Me neither.
Darth Grall wrote:Allow me to third that.
The DM should rarely, if EVER, tell a player what their character thinks, feels, or does. The PC is really the only aspect of the game that the player controls, and he should have as free a rein of it as possible. There are limits, of course (disrupting the game), but in general, this is VERY bad form.
I have, in the past, when this has happened, handed my sheet to the DM and left. "If you want to play my character, knock yourself out."
| Thanis Kartaleon |
Were I to GM this sort of situation, I would probably say, out of character, "Alright, so you've shifted alignment here, due to the infusion of fiendish energies. Your character is Neutral Evil now, which means he's probably feeling more self-centered than before, and might make longer term plans as well. I leave it to you to play that out. I encourage you to find a way to continue working with the party, rather than against them, as I do not like to GM for player-versus-player conflicts."
Weirdo
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Magical alignment change, possession, or other long-term mental control is not something that a GM should never do to a PC.
But it is something that a GM should never do without the player's permission.
Some players hate it under any circumstances. But some players can enjoy playing a character who is not in control of their actions, who is brainwashed or suffers from compulsions. In some game systems, it's even the default - in White Wolf's Vampire games, every character is subject to will saves to resist bloodlust and violent rages (in addition to the possibility of others magically dominating you). The trick is that in these cases the player has accepted that that's a part of the character and the player remains in control. They're still playing their character - it's just their character who has failed a Will save and now really wants to do X.
Don't reject this situation reflexively. Take some time to decide whether you personally think it would be fun and interesting to play this character with this compulsion even if you don't entirely understand it. And talk to your GM about any concerns (for example: "I don't mind being evil, but I don't want to be forced to betray my friends").
| Rhinox |
Quote:Can I ask you guys to explain what you mean here? I don't see what you're referring to.Any time the DM starts telling you, the player, what your character wants or is going to do (outside the realm of blatant magical compulsion), alarm bells start to go off. It seems like some clarification is needed to establish what sort of situation you are in:
A. Your character has legitimately changed alignment and has a new world view. If this is the case, you have to decide if you want to play the new alignment. If you don't, then ask the GM if you can resume your old alignment. If he says no, then you hand him the sheet because clearly it is now his character, not yours.
B. Your character is possessed. If you want to be free from the evil, you need to look into an exorcism.
C. Your hand is possessed. See above, but consider cutting your hand off.
If your character is possessed, then GM should be more explicit in saying things like, "You start to say that you don't want any women, but something inside you feels compelled to say that you do. Make a Will save."
If the GM is just telling you how to play your character, then he's possibly a jerk.
From what I can understand, my best guess is C, although B is also a possibility. Like I said, I need to talk to my GM obviously, but I feel like maybe his presentation might just have been a little off. He is still a lightly seasoned GM (he's done it before, but is still learning). If A is the case, I would be surprised and have obviously been playing the character wrong. He definitely seems to allow me freedom of character so far, and makes it clear I need to make my own decisions in regards to the situation, the details of the situation have just been vague so far.
| Rhinox |
The trick is that in these cases the player has accepted that that's a part of the character and the player remains in control. They're still playing their character - it's just their character who has failed a Will save and now really wants to do X.
Don't reject this situation reflexively. Take some time to decide whether you personally think it would be fun and interesting to play this character with this compulsion even if you don't entirely understand it. And talk to your GM about any concerns (for example: "I don't mind being evil, but I don't want to be forced to betray my friends").
This sounds correct to me. I don't mind the situation, I guess I just would be more comfortable if I fully understood how I am supposed to be effected. Thus the GM talk.
Howie23
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While you're talking with your GM, get his take on the paladin's situation re: a long term association with your PC. This style of play isn't my cup 'o tea, but I appreciate that others do. But, it's a pretty steep learning curve for you.
To be clear, I'm not disapproving or saying your group is playing wrong or something like that. I guess I'm just recognizing as a GM that I don't have the skills to make it work in a way that is satisfactory for everyone, much less enjoyable. :)
| Brian Bachman |
So here's the deal:
I've been playing as a Halfling Bard in a non-evil campaign. I was kidnapped by a Shadow Demon and interrogated, and long story short I walked out as a Half-Fiend Halfling with my alignment shifted from CG to NE.
I want to try and get back to at least neutral, but is that even possible? I know the template states evil alignment, but I am not sure if that's designed for NPC's or what.
This is especially an issue because I have a paladin in the group, who will be forced to kill me if he manages to find a way through the alignment concealment and discovers I am currently evil.
Simple question: are you enjoying the game even with the change?
An involuntary alignment change can be a lot of fun or a game-wrecker. I reserve judgment on your GM until i know if you're haivng fun or not. He may have judged you to be the type of player who can handle such an thing, enjoy it and use it to create an even more awesome story. Or he may just be trying to create intra-party conflict for his own amusement, which is not cool.
Highly commend you for talking with your GM and finding out as much as possible about this change and how he expects you to roleplay it.
One key question is whether this change is permanent and irreversible, or whether your character can "fight" it? Sounds like the latter to me, from what little you have posted, but find out for sure.
If it is the former, it is perfectly within your rights to say that you no longer wish to play that character. Or you can just roll with it and enjoy being bad. Not my cup of tea, but some folks enjoy it.
If it is the latter, sounds like a great RP opportunity to me. Lots of epic stories out there about folks trying to be heroic despite their sinful natures.
As for the paladin, Icyshadow is absolutely correct that he shouldn't feel any compulsion to kill you even if he does discover the lignment change. Rather, as a former trusted comrade, he should be dedicated to your redemption. He should definitely be keeping an eye on you, though, and wokr to prevent you from acting evil.
Here's an idea to consider. Maybe your character could go to the paladin privately, explain what happened and that you do not wish to be evil, and ask for his help in controlling your evil urges and finding a way to redemption. That way he has an awesome roleplaying opportunity as well, and your road to redemption can be a major plot thread.
| Talos Valcoran |
As others have suggested you could play a good character that is sometimes overcome by evil urges sometimes. Maybe the interrogation left you with mental scars, that while you try to be a good person sometimes you may loose control. Although to me it sounds like a style of GMing I really don't link, some really good roleplay could come from this. Hell you could even end up with a character like Dexter who channels his evil urges.
And in the end playing a mentally damaged character who can be unpredictable could be used to balance out that you have had a template added to your character.
This is all if you want to go down that road of course, if you don't want to and your GM says you must. Do as the other suggested and hand them your sheet since the guy is writing a novel.
| Rhinox |
Simple question: are you enjoying the game even with the change?
An involuntary alignment change can be a lot of fun or a game-wrecker. I reserve judgment on your GM until i know if you're haivng fun or not. He may have judged you to be the type of player who can handle such an thing, enjoy it and use it to create an even more awesome story. Or he may just be trying to create intra-party conflict for his own amusement, which is not cool.
Highly commend you for talking with your GM and finding out as much as possible about this change and how he expects you to roleplay it.
One key question is whether this change is permanent and irreversible, or whether your character can "fight" it? Sounds like the latter to me, from what little you have posted, but find out for sure.
If it is the former, it is perfectly within your rights to say that you no longer wish to play that character. Or you can just roll with it and enjoy being bad. Not my cup of tea, but some folks enjoy it.
If it is the latter, sounds like a great RP opportunity to me. Lots of epic stories out there about folks trying to be heroic despite their sinful natures.
As for the paladin, Icyshadow is absolutely correct that he shouldn't feel any compulsion to kill you even if he does discover the lignment change. Rather, as a former trusted comrade, he should be dedicated to your redemption. He...
I am quite enjoying the game as a whole, I am just slightly confused as to what is happening to my character specifically. As I said, there are a lot of complexities involved, and so I am worried for his future depending on the specifics of his situation.
One thing I do know: Originally after the shift, I asked if the alignment could be changed back, and he told me he couldn't tell me because it would be metagaming. In character I don't know if I will ever be the same, and so OOC he wants me to find out as I go, it seems. But once again, I need to talk to him to ask more specific questions and gather whatever details I can. A lot seems to ride on it!
As for the paladin, here's the kicker: the paladin and my character don't quite get along lol We are in the same party and respect each other, but our personalities clash, and so it adds another twist to the situation. He is LG where as I used to be CG, but he considers me to be rash and a bit of a nuisance (in character of course, OOC we're great old chaps). Thus in character he would be hesitant to approach the paladin. In addition, he's always been so fiercely independent and reflective he would want to sort through it on his own unless he felt like he had no other option than to get help.
EldonG
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Just my thoughts: Something inside me really fights the concept of being told what my own character feels...I'd have a bad reaction to it, immediately...but I can see where the DM is coming from, too. Trying to reconcile the two is an issue.
If you're just feeling confusion, and not frustration, roll with it would be my advice...as long as it's fun...but if it's getting frustrating, talk with your DM...make sure you can be comfortable on the same page...let him know what's going on with you, as you play...and work something out that works for both of you.
| Brian Bachman |
Brian Bachman wrote:Simple question: are you enjoying the game even with the change?
An involuntary alignment change can be a lot of fun or a game-wrecker. I reserve judgment on your GM until i know if you're haivng fun or not. He may have judged you to be the type of player who can handle such an thing, enjoy it and use it to create an even more awesome story. Or he may just be trying to create intra-party conflict for his own amusement, which is not cool.
Highly commend you for talking with your GM and finding out as much as possible about this change and how he expects you to roleplay it.
One key question is whether this change is permanent and irreversible, or whether your character can "fight" it? Sounds like the latter to me, from what little you have posted, but find out for sure.
If it is the former, it is perfectly within your rights to say that you no longer wish to play that character. Or you can just roll with it and enjoy being bad. Not my cup of tea, but some folks enjoy it.
If it is the latter, sounds like a great RP opportunity to me. Lots of epic stories out there about folks trying to be heroic despite their sinful natures.
As for the paladin, Icyshadow is absolutely correct that he shouldn't feel any compulsion to kill you even if he does discover the lignment change. Rather, as a former trusted comrade, he should be dedicated to your redemption. He...
I am quite enjoying the game as a whole, I am just slightly confused as to what is happening to my character specifically. As I said, there are a lot of complexities involved, and so I am worried for his future depending on the specifics of his situation.
One thing I do know: Originally after the shift, I asked if the alignment could be changed back, and he told me he couldn't tell me because it would be metagaming. In character I don't know if I will ever be the same, and so OOC he wants me to find out as I go, it seems. But once again, I need to talk to him to ask more specific questions and...
Glad you're enjoying the game and hope it continues. I also yield to you on your roleplaying ideas regarding your relationship with the paladin. Makes it a tougher road for your character if he has to go it alone without support, but tough roads are what heroes are made for.
With regard to what the GM told you, I understand where he is coming from, but that wouldn't be a sufficient answer for me. I don't enjoy playing evil characters, and if my character were ever irrevocably changed to evil, it simply wouldn't be fun for me and I'd want to create a new character, just as I would do if the character died. Frankly, I would prefer that my character was simply killed, rather than changed into something that is a danger to my friends and innocent bystanders. However, that's me, and if the character is still fun for you, probably not a problem.
I would note, though, that the GM is straying into dangerous territory with a unilateral and involuntary alignment change for a PC. Such things, if they are frequent and not appreciated by the players, can absolutely wreck a game. So, if it seems that the alignment change is irreversible and it ceases to be fun for you, I'd be honest with the GM about it and try to work out a solution.
Weirdo
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If your GM won't give you OOC information for fear of metagaming, then seek out information IC. If your character has any of his own mind remaining he will also be confused about what's going on - and likely worried. As a bard, you're probably well-equipped for this research. Knowledge (Planes) is probably most applicable, but Knowledge (Arcana) might be if there's a spell effect involved. If you can find a good library you can get a bonus on your check. If you have the Lore Master ability you can take 20. You could also seek out informed NPCs - disguised if you like - and ask them for information.
If your GM is mostly just worried about you metagaming then he should have no problem making this info available to your character because then you can know IC and there's no metagaming involved. If he's trying to be a bit mysterious he can leave a few holes, but still include the important stuff like "what's my best shot at getting rid of this?"
| Zhayne |
One thing I do know: Originally after the shift, I asked if the alignment could be changed back, and he told me he couldn't tell me because it would be metagaming.
Metagaming is not inherently bad. This is a good instance of where it would be beneficial, as this situation is obviously causing you distress.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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It's possible even for a demon or other full-on (as in non-native) outsider to change alignment. That's how fallen angels come along, after all. It's just INCREDIBLY RARE.
Of course, it's more common than PCs, of which there are only the number in your group in any one incarnation of a campaign's multiverse, so having a PC half-fiend manage to escape the evil alignment and return to, say, chaotic good, is absolutely doable. It'd likely require atonement spells and some big story-based adventuring/roleplay though.
| Rogar Stonebow |
I will Second what JJ has said, and As a GM of such an encounter, I would allow them to go on a mission that unknown to the group is a testing ground for the choices the newly made half-fiend will have to make. Give the character to embrace his new abilities, or allow him to penalize himself by not using his new powers to his full ability, showing restraint and resolve to do what is right. As the mission progresses, put the party in a situation to where the easy way to save the day was for the character to use his new abilities save the party, while allowing for an alternate way to succeed, but at great sacrifice to the player. By continuing to challenge the character more and more, this will allow the character's alignment to fully be realized as a evil character, or a Chaotic Good character. If the mission is successful, in a good way, I would then say the character has earned the ability to use his new powers, without risk of the evil engulfing him.
| Rhinox |
UPDATE:
So I talked to my GM, and here is the clarification I received.
1) My character still acts the same way. His "core" has been changed to evil, which manifests itself in evil urges on occasion, but he still believes himself to be a good person. Therefore, he can still act against the urges.
2) I asked him what will happen if he continues to overcome the urges, and he said that I do not know yet, and that I will have to find out over time in game.
3) I asked if these urges are the only manifestation of this evil, and he said "it seems to be that way, for now."
4) I said "I guess I'm just worried because I don't quite understand what is happening with my character and I don't want to ruin him." He responded "Well, you'll just have to see where this goes. Characters change on their journeys."
I feel like this doesn't leave me a whole lot better off, but it does give me some leads. I am going to attempt to figure out things in character, but I'm feeling like I'm probably not going to find much no matter where I look.
My worry is that my character is a ticking time bomb. From the results of #3/#4, I feel like he has some plan in mind, but I do not know where this plan leads.
On the one hand, I am a brand new player. I don't know what is normal, and I feel like part of this is just logical consequences, because I did kind of make a deal with the devil at one point. Which is really what got me into this situation in the first place.
On the other hand, I honestly have no idea where my character is going to end up, which makes it difficult to plan ahead for parts of the journey. I don't want to hurt anyone in my party because of a bad decision I made, or hurt any innocent bystanders.
| Zhayne |
On the upside, you (the player) are guiltless if you do wind up attacking or betraying the party, because your control-freak DM will be the one pulling the trigger.
I would actually recommend telling your fellow players everything you've told us here, so they're prepared OOCly for if the defecation impacts the oscillating air circulation enhancement device.
Howie23
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I like his responses.
The alignment system is supposed to represent what a character has done, not what it will do. If a character is consistent, future actions will largely be similar to the past. What you're dealing with is a situation where the consistency is at question.
Essentially, he's saying that your character is consistent, with the addition of the pull on future actions exerted by this evil core. If you have a mathematical mind, it's like adding two curves, with the consistent character having a heavier weight.
You can get him to stop doing the "well, actually you do..." sort of thing by embracing the urges...by which I mean express the conflict. Instead of, "No, I don't want to do that obviously horrid thing..." instead, consider it as if it's a new-found option, "Hmmm, I'd never have considered it, but it sounds interesting, what do you guys think?" This should also give the paladin room to role-play the angel's advocate, and provide you with in-game rationale for hiding your behavior on those occasions when you fall to the temptation.
#2 can provide in-game motivation for plot. Maybe you'd like to seek out a sage, bard, or other knowledgeable person to get insight on similar events that have happened to others. From a game management perspective, you'll get your best results by giving him some forewarning so that he has the opportunity to work up the NPC and his response. It could provide some added depth to the gameworld. Maybe a bard knows the story of Sir Oopsalot, who caved to his evil side, or Lord ImaSoBright, who overcame the temptations, etc.
#3 is traditional GM-speak for "I dunno yet" combined with "I'm so mysterious; it'll be cool, trust me."
#4 sounds like he's got some depth of experience and some old-school sensibilities. In the forums, it sometimes sounds like some players have a character planned out in spite of what they experience, rather than in response to what they experience. That may come off as badwrongfun; I have some bias for what I like and aspire to in gaming, but I'm not down on how others play. He's expecting you, as a player, to portray the character's response to the unforeseen experience. Jump in.
Your character is seeing that actions have consequences (the deal with the devil idea). Enjoy the journey.
| Calybos1 |
I second the notion of having your character always discuss his internal conflict with his party members, out loud, using the actual words "something inside me is urging me to..."
That will short-circuit any DM-control plans to have you 'suddenly betray the party.' If the DM's not planning to run your character at his convenience, it will do no harm and count as good roleplaying. And if he IS planning a secret I-take-over-your-character plot, this behavior will frustrate him no end. Win-win.