Idea: Fighters should get good Will saves. Also, they should be able to choose between good Reflex or good Fort saves (So 2 good save total).
Reasoning: Fighting something requires focus. And while the wizard can sit back and summon something to take care of the problem, the martial classes have to concentrate on the fight while some really weird stuff happens. They have to keep fighting, even when they get stabbed, zapped, turned inside out, etc. There are plenty of real-life soldiers who have had something awful happen to them in the middle of combat, shrugged it off, and kept fighting. I think that is the definition of willpower.
Also, this bit is admittedly less concrete, but I think that most soldiers, back in the 17th century (dawn of the musket) were either used to taking blows or avoiding them. Its pretty logical that one who has been dodging blows his entire life would be terrible at taking them, and vice-versa.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Fighters are already pretty strong. Also, all of the classes that currently have good reflex or will saves fill story archetypes that should be more reflex-y or will-y than the fighter.
Fighters are already pretty strong. Also, all of the classes that currently have good reflex or will saves fill story archetypes that should be more reflex-y or will-y than the fighter.
Are you... Are you serious? The fighter does one thing good, hitting stuff. Beyond that he doesn't have any class features to save his life except his good fort save. A second good save and 4+skill points each level would be a good start for him.
Fighter has tons of feats. Just get iron will or something.
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Fighters are already pretty strong.
I agree, though I'm not entirely certain why we're treating the NPC Warrior as our baseline for comparison.
Are you... Are you serious? The fighter does one thing good, hitting stuff.
Now now, let's not exaggerate. The fighter does one thing good: hitting stuff with a specific weapon chosen early in his career and which can never be changed. Enjoy watching everyone else upgrade to whatever +4 loot happens to be lying around while you're stuck with a +2 because it's been two modules since a magical Greataxe was last dropped.
Are you... Are you serious? The fighter does one thing good, hitting stuff.Now now, let's not exaggerate. The fighter does one thing good: hitting stuff with a specific weapon chosen early in his career and which can never be changed. Enjoy watching everyone else upgrade to whatever +4 loot happens to be lying around while you're stuck with a +2 because it's been two modules since a magical Greataxe was last dropped.
Hmm, well in that case we should also mention that he is only really good at hitting stuff if he doesn't have to move, and he's not actually that much better at hitting stuff than some of the other guys, especially if he's losing out on several tiers of enhancement.
Fighter has tons of feats. Just get iron will or something.
Or give him a good will save and then take iron will. +2 only goes so far.
I would say good fort and one other, player's choice
If you open up one class to choosing their good and bad saves, you'll have two immediate problems:
*Munckins will insist that they shouldn't have ANY bad saves because of "RP" reasons (which have nothing to do with RP), and
*Every player of every other class will demand the same privilege.
There are plenty of items, feats, and other workarounds to help a fighter's Will saves without opening that can of worms.
Why would this ever become an issue?
"If you open up one class with all good saves, you'll have two immediate problems:
*Munckins will insist that they shouldn't have ANY bad saves because of "RP" reasons (which have nothing to do with RP), and
*Every player of every other class will demand the same privilege."
This argument is not well thought out. What, wizards get spells! I am a fighter, and I demand the same treatment!
Screw demands. Book says the sky is blue. DM says the sky is blue. The player can wail and cry all he wants, but he won't turn the sky green unless his DM is bad, and he should feel bad, and then all his cries about the lack of balance that will ensue will be promptly ignored, as they should.
What I want to know is, is there any way besides upping Wisdom or taking the two Iron Will feats in Pathfinder to increase Will saves?
What I want to know is, is there any way besides upping Wisdom or taking the two Iron Will feats in Pathfinder to increase Will saves?
Just the arguably most used magic item ever: Ye Cloake of Resistance. Pretty cheap magic item, capping out at 5,000 per +1 bonus for the most powerful version.
I highly doubt that anyone will ever "balance" the fighter by treating the fighter as if it was in a vacuum. The problem isn't the fighter, its the wizard and other Tier 1 and 2 spellcasters. Reduce their uber-power down to more reasonable levels, by removing god spells (wish, gate, mind blank, etc.), taking the Save or Suck spells and making them higher in level (color spray, daze, etc.), and finally, by removing/raising in level the spells that make them walk all over rogues in terms of skills (fly, levitate, knock, invisibility, rope trick, etc).
You know that the problem is with another class, and not the fighter, when the one class can do everything a rogue's skills can do by level 5, and can out fight the fighter by level 9 arguably. Dropping the wizard down to tier 3 would do much more than upping the fighter to tier 4.
What I want to know is, is there any way besides upping Wisdom or taking the two Iron Will feats in Pathfinder to increase Will saves?Just the arguably most used magic item ever: Ye Cloake of Resistance. Pretty cheap magic item, capping out at 5,000 per +1 bonus for the most powerful version.
I highly doubt that anyone will ever "balance" the fighter by treating the fighter as if it was in a vacuum. The problem isn't the fighter, its the wizard and other Tier 1 and 2 spellcasters. Reduce their uber-power down to more reasonable levels, by removing god spells (wish, gate, mind blank, etc.), taking the Save or Suck spells and making them higher in level (color spray, daze, etc.), and finally, by removing/raising in level the spells that make them walk all over rogues in terms of skills (fly, levitate, knock, invisibility, rope trick, etc).
You know that the problem is with another class, and not the fighter, when the one class can do everything a rogue's skills can do by level 5, and can out fight the fighter by level 9 arguably. Dropping the wizard down to tier 3 would do much more than upping the fighter to tier 4.
Agreed, but separate issue is separate. Personally, I hold T3 to be the thing to aim for, the are where your class does one thing really good and remains competent at several other things. Getting the fighter up can help, and fighter homebrew threads should NOT be the place to hold the "wizards are OP" argument.