Winter Witch Archetype


Rules Questions


Can you select the 0-level spell that the archetype grants access to was one of your starting known 1st-level spells?

Liberty's Edge

I'm not sure what the question is? Can you clarify?

Contributor

Technically, no.

PRD wrote:
A witch's familiar begins play storing all of the 0-level witch spells plus three 1st-level spells of the witch's choice. The witch also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to her Intelligence modifier to store in her familiar.

You get a bonus set of 1st level spells. Come 2nd level, you can take the level 0 spell for free. However, I would talk to your GM. I see no problem with adding a cantrip to your familiar in place of a 1st level spell.


The winter witch archetype grants access to Ray of Frost, but doesn't grant it to you free.

The real issue stems from the fact that I am building the character for PFS and want to know if I can in PFS.


Huh? The Winter Witch archetype adds Ray of Frost to the witch spell list. Witch familiar's know all 0-level spells. Therefore, a Winter Witch can prepare Ray of Frost in one of the 0-level spell slots.

If your question is whether you can prepare an at-will 0-level spell using a 1st level slot, you should make it clearer. I would think the answer is already on the board that a search check would find.

cheers


The Winter Witch known all 0-level spells except Ray of Frost.

During character creation you select 3+Int mod 1-st level spell as spells known.

I feel I must point out that though I keep saying 'known' it is actually "stored by familiar".

My question is; Is it legal in PFS to select the 0-th level Ray of Frost as on of the starting known "1-st level" spells?

I don't know any GM who wouldn't allow it, but I am building the character for PFS so it is a bit more important to follow the rules... Wouldn't want to get to a Con and be told I can't use the spell...


Tempest_Knight wrote:

The Winter Witch known all 0-level spells except Ray of Frost.

No. You are misunderstanding the text. Jubal is correct. Let me try to clarify.

Winter Witch on SRD wrote:


A winter witch adds ray of frost to her spell list, but does not automatically learn this cantrip.

That means your familiar and by extension the witch knows it (because the familiar knows all 0 lvl spells available to the witch) but the winter witch still needs to select it in one of her 0-level cantrip slots to be able to cast it, just as normal.

As for PFS. It is legal for a Winter Witch to have Ray of Frost as a cantrip.


You just quoted the text that says that you are wrong. Notice that whole 'addeed to spell list but not automatically learned' section.

Let us break it down to the two main points;

This means that it is added to the Witch class Spell List.

This also means that, unlike all other Witch Spell List cantrips(0-level), the Winter Witch does not get it as a starting known/learned/stored in familiar spell.

My question is simple, for PFS, can I 'learn' a 0-level spell as one of my starting known 1-st level spells.


If we assume that "learn" means "to feed it to your familiar and so gain knowledge of the spell so that you can prepare it" then the answer is no. if we keep being pedantic:

PRD wrote:


A witch’s familiar begins play storing all of the 0-level witch spells plus three 1st level spells of the witch’s choice. The witch also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to her Intelligence modifier to store in her familiar. At each new witch level, she adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new witch level) to her familiar. A witch can also add additional spells to her familiar through a special ritual.

So by RAW you can only add it using the special ritual (e.g. buy a scroll, feed it to your familiar or learn it from another witch) or wait till level 2.

However this restriction is ludicrous. It's a cantrip for crying out loud. I would completely allow this as a freebie. I find it really hard to believe that it is so difficult for a winter witch to learn this cantrip but be given free wintery patron spells.


Again, I have to point out that this is for a new PFS character.

I can't just take the position of Ignore the Rules. I also can't just do what I and most other GMs would allow. I need something a bit more official.

Shadow Lodge

Just buy a 0 level scroll. Its what I did when I played this archetype. simple cheap and done.

Shadow Lodge

For PFS, you either need to learn it as one of your spells at later levels... or you can just feed your familiar a 12.5gp scroll.


I was hoping to just dump a 1st-level spell, but I figured I'd have to go the scroll route... Lets hope I don't bugger the skill check.


Take 10? Its easy to have a +11 at level 1 with an intellect based caster.


Can't take 10 as there is a penalty for failing.

With a DC 15, it isn't too bad... A dairy-free Witch should have a a bonus of 6-8 to the check. So, assuming a +8, that is a 70% chance of success... (60 for a +6)


Tempest_Knight wrote:
Can't take 10 as there is a penalty for failing.

Huh? Last time I checked, 'penalty for failing' precluded take 20 only.


Well spotted... I had incorrectly connected the Take 20 limit to Take 10...

Dark Archive

I, too, have a question about this archetype's 0-level spells:

On the Witch's spell list is "Spark", which is of the Fire School. Given the statement that the Winter Witch cannot learn or cast spells of the Fire descriptor, doesn't that mean that you're basically swapping Spark for Ray of Frost?


Tempest_Knight wrote:
I was hoping to just dump a 1st-level spell, but I figured I'd have to go the scroll route... Lets hope I don't bugger the skill check.

Take a race that has the favored class bonus of 'Add one spell from the witch spell list to the witch’s familiar. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level she can cast'. Problem solved.

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