It sounds like it is better to sit down and talk as a group instead of playing in session. Find out what she wants from the Game, what kind of game the GM wants to run, and let your fellow players express what they want.
Usually, trying to solve this kind of stuff in game, without a conversation before hand just blows up in everyone's face. And dice hurt at that velocity.
Nice long talk over a sweet dessert can go a long way.
You might want to talk to her about how you feel she's acting antagonistically, and that its making people uncomfortable. The last time I had a player like that they didn't really want to be a part of the game, and more so came to socialize. They didn't realize they were causing a problem, but quickly made amends and said sorry. They were just socially awkward and really didn't notice until it was pointed out. YMMV though.
2 hours straight devouted to her? My gosh, and telling other players its okay to kill or murder them during this? Antagonistic acts like that usually don't go down well. Theres probably an ooc issue here.
It sounds like it is better to sit down and talk as a group instead of playing in session. Find out what she wants from the Game, what kind of game the GM wants to run, and let your fellow players express what they want.
Usually, trying to solve this kind of stuff in game, without a conversation before hand just blows up in everyone's face. And dice hurt at that velocity.
+1
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So when confronted with the problems in person she gets annoyed, argumentative and defensive? She takes up 2 hours of game time for a one on one roleplay? She brings another hobby to the game so that she can occupy herself (meaning there is at least part of the game she doesnt wnat to participate or be engaged by). Why do you think messing with her character in game is going to fix this exactly? Its going to lead to a fight, and mess up a game session. Talk to your gm and maybe have a group intervention. If she doesnt agree out of character as a person, her characters wont get any better. Cut the passive aggressive crap and talk to (presumably) your friend person to person. If that works, great, if it doesnt its time to let her go from the group.
Why do you think messing with her character in game is going to fix this exactly?
Because, according to the OP, she was already talked to outside of the game.
Cut the passive aggressive crap and talk to (presumably) your friend person to person. If that works, great, if it doesnt its time to let her go from the group.
That seemingly was already covered in the OP.
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It's definitely a good thing that you've talked to her about this, but that she's still not willing to change her behavior suggests there's a much larger out of character problem. I don't know exactly what "harsh roleplay" you have in mind, but be careful that it's not just returned passive-aggression that will blow up into an OOC fight. Some people don't take "learning opportunities" well, and from the sounds of it she's probably one of those people.
Depending on her own personality she might not be willing to say anything in a group setting, or to particular people. If there's anyone at the table who has been getting along with her, or maybe just a mutual friend that doesn't play, it might be a good idea for them to ask her what's going on. It's important that this isn't a "spying on her" kind of thing, it should be out in the open that it's to solve the issues with the game. Having a go-between can sometimes be a great thing.
If in the end the problem is that the play style she prefers doesn't match the rest of the table's, or that she has a personal problem with some/all of the other members, it would probably be best for her to find another game that fits better with what she wants.
Of course, if she's another player's girlfriend/spouse, it could understandably be difficult to ask her to leave without asking their significant other to go with them--but if you don't, it could very easily cause your group to split apart.
Player problems cannot be solved in-game. More likely than not, any attempt will exacerbate the problem. You MUST settle things with her OOC.
I'd recommended a group intervention. Don't be confrontational, find out what her problems are, voice your problems, and encourage her to help find a solution.
If this doesn't work then you need to keep trying, or decide that you can't game with her anymore.
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There comes a time when you've got to boot a troublesome player. If you're down to attempting to solve issues in-game when out-of-game has failed, you're going to have a 0% success rate. I'm betting she digs in her heels even further when you try to make her "see the light" by exposing how badly she plays.
Your GM should be taking control of the situation and is not, which is a problem. The GM is not solely some neutral arbitrator behind a screen; they're a person sitting down with friends to enjoy a game. Have you talked to your GM about nixing these behaviors, or at least the knitting?
With that said, I have in-game been successful once with a GM and player-coordinated effort, but the player was a good friend so I was willing to try. Every time negative behavior came up, we stopped the game and had a talk. The other players conveyed that their characters wouldn't be willing to sacrifice their life and time for someone who treats them that way. We then discussed we're all friends (in some way shape or form) away from the table, and as friends we didn't want to play that way. In this circumstance (my only experience trying this), it worked, and likely only because we'd all known one another for years.
Your GM should be taking control of the situation and is not, which is a problem. The GM is not solely some neutral arbitrator behind a screen; they're a person sitting down with friends to enjoy a game. Have you talked to your GM about nixing these behaviors, or at least the knitting?
Are you sure about that?
Our GM has talked to her, but she has ignored him almost completely.
Is there something going on with this thread that I missed?
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So, whose girlfriend is she? I'm assuming somebody's dating her to make it worth your group's time to put up with this kind of behavior.....
Because everyone knows there's no possible way that a female gamer could exist without dating someone in the group--or if she did, surely she wouldn't indulge in the exact same behavior that any number of male gamers have exhibited over the years. That would just be weird!
(Message to literalists: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
So, whose girlfriend is she? I'm assuming somebody's dating her to make it worth your group's time to put up with this kind of behavior.....Because everyone knows there's no possible way that a female gamer could exist without dating someone in the group--or if she did, surely she wouldn't indulge in the exact same behavior that any number of male gamers have exhibited over the years. That would just be weird!
(Message to literalists: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
Thanks. That was bugging me, but I wasn't sure if calling it out was worth the fallout.
Thanks. That was bugging me, but I wasn't sure if calling it out was worth the fallout.So, whose girlfriend is she? I'm assuming somebody's dating her to make it worth your group's time to put up with this kind of behavior.....Because everyone knows there's no possible way that a female gamer could exist without dating someone in the group--or if she did, surely she wouldn't indulge in the exact same behavior that any number of male gamers have exhibited over the years. That would just be weird!
(Message to literalists: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
Yeah, I know, that whole sexist, misogynistic thing was really bugging me too. I'm glad someone called it out.
But seriously, who's girlfriend is she? :P
I always can't help but wonder what the other side of these stories is.
Because there's always another side.
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Sounds like she wants a more casual game that is less immersive and serious.
Or she is someone's girlfriend and wants to disrupt the game.
It is hard to tell from here on the forums, but she does sound a lot like a player who wanted to come and fool around and be somewhat silly and have the game, GM, and world be somewhat forgiving of stupid stuff.
Or you could just convince your GM to run Rappan Athuk and kick back and laugh about it all. Either she will die, you will die, or everyone will die. Either way, its more difficult to be as invested as you all are now, so her antics should be less disturbing to the group :)
Yeah, I know, that whole sexist, misogynistic thing was really bugging me too. I'm glad someone called it out.
But seriously, who's girlfriend is she? :P
（￣へ￣）
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
So, whose girlfriend is she? I'm assuming somebody's dating her to make it worth your group's time to put up with this kind of behavior.....Because everyone knows there's no possible way that a female gamer could exist without dating someone in the group--or if she did, surely she wouldn't indulge in the exact same behavior that any number of male gamers have exhibited over the years. That would just be weird!
(Message to literalists: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
. <-----
Your head.
Generally, when the issue is "We can't kick her/him out even though s/he's a pain in our ass and won't shape up" the corollary to that is "...Because it would piss off her/his boyfriend/girlfriend, who we like".
Problems aside, are there any aspects of the player's participation that you and the rest of the group enjoy? Would you miss her if the group decided it would be best for her not to continue with you? Is it really worth the angst and hassle of keeping her in the group?
Having been in a few groups that experienced major problems with one player's attitude and/or play style, the best all round option is likely to be to politely and openly tell the player that it would be best if they didn't continue with the group (acknowledging that coming up with the right form of words is tricky). There may be a unpleasant reaction but that will pass and you can get on with playing with a group, all of whose remaining members are fun to be with.
Don't fall in the trap of thinking that every problem has a solution where everyone comes out happy with the outcome. Often one very unhappy person and the rest happy is the best possible outcome.
Thanks. That was bugging me, but I wasn't sure if calling it out was worth the fallout.So, whose girlfriend is she? I'm assuming somebody's dating her to make it worth your group's time to put up with this kind of behavior.....Because everyone knows there's no possible way that a female gamer could exist without dating someone in the group--or if she did, surely she wouldn't indulge in the exact same behavior that any number of male gamers have exhibited over the years. That would just be weird!
(Message to literalists: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
He was joking, guys. Don't be so sensitive.
Calybos1 never said anything against female gamers, he just pointed out that if this girl is such a pain in the ass, there must be some reason for the group to put up with her, since she's obviously not making their roleplaying any more enjoyable.
I am curious to see the other side of things, since as AD points out there is always another side to this. So let me play devil's advocate with this:
The whole "not stepping up and roleplaying" thing is subjective. Especially since you guys don't like her playing as a hostile and or promiscuous PC.
Her calling out your side could potentially save you guys one day, if you come across trigger happy allies.
Her not learning her character is annoying, I've had a player who refused to learn how spells worked when playing an alchemist, but on the other hand she could have some kind of learning disability you're not aware of.
The whole, not trusting strangers thing, actually makes more sense IC than not. Remove the fact that OOC you're all friends and gamers, it doesn't necessarily make sense for a warrior who fights monsters every day to just trust the next random wizard they run across. If possible, try having those players work something out with her backstory wise so she knows them rather than force her to just begin to trust them.
So she suggests she turns herself over to the enemy which could potentially not cause combat and you don't approve? I thought you said all her ideas were violent.
Does she HAVE a reason to give it to someone? In a 3.5 game the DM gave a paranoid player one of 5 McGuffins, and he for a long while refused to hand it over. Eventually though, the DM gave him reason and things worked out. Aren't you meta-gaming by knowing what she has?
Solo RPs suck, but that comes down to bad DM planning imo. If you have to, make it quick or work it out before game.
Well from a point of view, "roll players" could be viewed as obsessive. And in big groups(8+ players) where there is a lot of combat, turns take forever. In those games I've had players bring books or whatever when combat's taking too long in those kind of games. Knitting doesn't sound disruptive as talking over game or watching tv.
Point is, I can easily see the other side to this. I'm not bashing you, just saying try to be more mindful of your own demeanor too. Talk with her like the other have suggested, just go in with an open mind yourself OP.
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Thanks. That was bugging me, but I wasn't sure if calling it out was worth the fallout.So, whose girlfriend is she? I'm assuming somebody's dating her to make it worth your group's time to put up with this kind of behavior.....Because everyone knows there's no possible way that a female gamer could exist without dating someone in the group--or if she did, surely she wouldn't indulge in the exact same behavior that any number of male gamers have exhibited over the years. That would just be weird!
(Message to literalists: Yes, that was sarcasm.)
Yeah, I know, that whole sexist, misogynistic thing was really bugging me too. I'm glad someone called it out.
But seriously, who's girlfriend is she? :P
I always can't help but wonder what the other side of these stories is.
Because there's always another side.
Not always. Sometimes players aren't compatible. If you have 6 people in the group, and this player is making the game worse for the other 6 people at the table (5 other players and the GM) you are better off with a 5 player game.
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Your head.
Not sure what you're doing here. Is the implication that I have a tiny head and am therefore stupid? Are you calling me funny-looking? You're not really being terribly clear.
Oh! Are you saying I've been to so much therapy that my head shrunk? Because that at least would make sense. (You'd be wrong, but that's another story altogether.)
Calybos1 never said anything against female gamers, he just pointed out that if this girl is such a pain in the ass, there must be some reason for the group to put up with her, since she's obviously not making their roleplaying any more enjoyable.
And yet, in a dozen similar threads in which the problem gamer is (or is simply assumed to be) male, his status as significant other of the GM (or another gamer) would probably never come up, let alone just be assumed.
The common term for that is that the point went over your head, not that your head is small.. <-----
Your head.
Not sure what you're doing here. Is the implication that I have a tiny head and am therefore stupid? Are you calling me funny-looking? You're not really being terribly clear.
Oh! Are you saying I've been to so much therapy that my head shrunk? Because that at least would make sense. (You'd be wrong, but that's another story altogether.)
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The text "your head" was meant to be part of the visual, not a caption explaining it.
That was really poorly illustrated, then.
I think you just missed the point twice in a row.
It happens.
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I think you just missed the point twice in a row.
It happens.
I grant you that your poor illustration caused me some confusion, and the irony is not lost on me.
However, I understood the point of the initial poster, because it wasn't actually an original bit of thinking. His point--that in a situation like this, she's probably playing because she's dating someone--is something I disagree with, which I expressed via sarcasm, because I knew if I tried to jump right into an explanation, everyone would accuse me of being overly sensitive.
But since we're already there, I'll go ahead and actively dispute this conclusion, in this case particularly, because I don't see any reason--beyond the player's gender, of course--to assume that it's true.
Further, the fact that many--male--gamers feel it safe to leap to that conclusion is a factor in women not feeling welcome at game tables. I do not say this because that's my assumption--I say this because female gamers of my acquaintance have said as much to me, several times, over the past decade and a half.
So I got the f@*%ing point, Rynjin, I just think it's wrong, and that defending it is asinine.
I think you just missed the point twice in a row.
It happens.
I grant you that your poor illustration caused me some confusion, and the irony is not lost on me.
However, I understood the point of the initial poster, because it wasn't actually an original bit of thinking. His point--that in a situation like this, she's probably playing because she's dating someone--is something I disagree with, which I expressed via sarcasm, because I knew if I tried to jump right into an explanation, everyone would accuse me of being overly sensitive.
But since we're already there, I'll go ahead and actively dispute this conclusion, in this case particularly, because I don't see any reason--beyond the player's gender, of course--to assume that it's true.
Further, the fact that many--male--gamers feel it safe to leap to that conclusion is a factor in women not feeling welcome at game tables. I do not say this because that's my assumption--I say this because female gamers of my acquaintance have said as much to me, several times, over the past decade and a half.
So I got the f**+ing point, Rynjin, I just think it's wrong, and that defending it is asinine.
That was not the conclusion I would have jumped to.
They are both playing because they like to play. The relationship being the likely reason they're at the same table, but also an impediment to getting the problem to just LEAVE.
It's the same as if your GM's best friend is a complete douchenozzle so you can't kick him out because the GM would get pissy about it, except it involves male/female relations.
Don't pretend like that doesn't happen.
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That was not the conclusion I would have jumped to.
They are both playing because they like to play. The relationship being the likely reason they're at the same table, but also an impediment to getting the problem to just LEAVE.
It's the same as if your GM's best friend is a complete douchenozzle so you can't kick him out because the GM would get pissy about it, except it involves male/female relations.
Don't pretend like that doesn't happen.
Then why haven't all the posts asking if she's someone's girlfriend asked if she's someone's friend? Or roommate? Or "friend or roommate or girlfriend"? They all go right to girlfriend, and that's because of the gender of the player. Which is a common problem in gamer culture that I'm going to continue pointing out when I see it.
Then why haven't all the posts asking if she's someone's girlfriend asked if she's someone's friend? Or roommate? Or "friend or roommate or girlfriend"? They all go right to girlfriend, and that's because of the gender of the player. Which is a common problem in gamer culture that I'm going to continue pointing out when I see it.That was not the conclusion I would have jumped to.
They are both playing because they like to play. The relationship being the likely reason they're at the same table, but also an impediment to getting the problem to just LEAVE.
It's the same as if your GM's best friend is a complete douchenozzle so you can't kick him out because the GM would get pissy about it, except it involves male/female relations.
Don't pretend like that doesn't happen.
Not that I care for the gender, but when you keep people around you don't like even when they've been a total jerkface, sometimes its related to them being in a relationship or someones roommate or something similar. This complicates things and I don't like to touch that with a 10 foot pole myself.
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Because girlfriend is one word whereas "friend or roommate or girlfriend" is multiple.
Which is part of the problem with all this politically correct bullshit. It over complicates simple phrasing, and people take it to the extreme that an imperfectly phrased sentence is something to jump on and pretend to be offended about.
It's only offensive if people choose to take it that way. "Girlfriend" is not some kind of slur, and is not meant to be an insult. He didn't say "<Offensive Slur Of Some Kind>" or anything like that.
It was an innocuous, half-joking question that happened to reference a fairly common scenario. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen. The scenario is vague enough in that regard that you can't really tell. But it is a somewhat important question, no matter how you phrase it. Perhaps the most blunt and direct way being to simply ask "Why do you need to keep her around?"
Ask if they are going to calm down and stop damaging the game and the general fun atmosphere, if they get defensive, boot them.
To repeat what has been said many times already. You can NOT solve a OOC problem IC. It just makes things worse.
But note, this is the Op's first and only post here ever. Perhaps he's just having us on.
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From now on I'm going to assume that all male self-centered neckbearded grognards are someone's boyfriend. It's only logical.
To repeat what has been said many times already. You can NOT solve a OOC problem IC. It just makes things worse.
But note, this is the Op's first and only post here ever. Perhaps he's just having us on.
yugokitari. Where have I heard that name?
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It is if you won't kick them out of the game for being obnoxious.
What you know about the group's actions so far is "One of us tried talking to them once but it was haaaard so we decided to be passive-aggressive instead of actually confronting the problem directly instead." Seems to me that the most obvious explanation is that this group, like so many others, suffers from the usual Geek Social Fallacies and needs more spines.
It is if you won't kick them out of the game for being obnoxious.What you know about the group's actions so far is "One of us tried talking to them once but it was haaaard so we decided to be passive-aggressive instead of actually confronting the problem directly instead." Seems to me that the most obvious explanation is that this group, like so many others, suffers from the usual Geek Social Fallacies and needs more spines.
Eh, the hobby attracts the sort. Just had a long conversation about this yesterday. Don't suppose you know a mail order spine store to help those in need?
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It is if you won't kick them out of the game for being obnoxious.What you know about the group's actions so far is "One of us tried talking to them once but it was haaaard so we decided to be passive-aggressive instead of actually confronting the problem directly instead." Seems to me that the most obvious explanation is that this group, like so many others, suffers from the usual Geek Social Fallacies and needs more spines.
Didn't read the OP did you?
What we know is the group is tired of a player to the point they are planning an intervention, the player isn't adapting to the group.
Bye bye person who is making the game not fun for everyone else and isn't willing to change behaviors when asked.
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stuff that will get moderated
If people are too lazy to type more than one word, they're probably too lazy to type more letters than are necessary. So why use 10 for girlfriend when you can use 8 for roommate or use 6 for friend?
Because that's not the reason. The reason is the assumption that she's in the game because she's connected to a male. Yes, I'm sure someone will tell me that the comment didn't speak to the gender of the person she's the girlfriend of, but we all know that assumption part one carries with it assumption part two: She's probably someone's girlfriend (because that's the most likely scenario) and that someone is probably male (because that's the most likely scenario).
So we circle wide and wind up right back where we started: With an assumption that isn't based on any evidence whatsoever, and is defended by people who made the same assumption and don't understand how the gender politics involved are damaging when perpetuated.
And then people who understand how this all works get chastised for being too politically correct. So please, continue. But know that you're wrong.
I almost like this post, but we really don't need examples of what a sexual slur looks like and I suspect your post will get moderated. This is unfortunate because apart from an unnecessary example of crudity it's a very good point that oversensitive people would do well to brand onto their retinas.
Edited out unnecessary example then.
So we circle wide and wind up right back where we started: With an assumption that isn't based on any evidence whatsoever, and is defended by people who made the same assumption and don't understand how the gender politics involved are damaging when perpetuated.
It's not damaging in the slightest.
Ignoring the fact that it was, again, a lighthearted post that was not meant to be offensive, let's look at the assumption on its own merits.
Now, while female gamers are on the rise (and about damn time IMO), gamers of all kinds are still largely male.
On top of that, Tabletop RPGs seem to attract a lot of family/relationship bonding types, since they're party based games that everyone can involve themselves in.
And besides all of that, being in any mixed gender group for any extended period of time carries a likelihood of someone hooking up with someone else (assuming they were single from the start). Interpersonal relationships are hardly rare.
So is it really that much of a stretch to say that a female gamer is likely to be someone's girlfriend? And is it REALLY an offensive assumption to make, regardless?
And then people who understand how this all works get chastised for being too politically correct. So please, continue. But know that you're wrong.
You may think I'm wrong, and you're entitled to that.
Obviously I disagree with that opinion, however.
To repeat what has been said many times already. You can NOT solve a OOC problem IC. It just makes things worse.
But note, this is the Op's first and only post here ever. Perhaps he's just having us on.
I have noted that many of the various posts involving...problem player/dm...player/dm is a jerk...kind of posts lately seem to be from a new poster...
who posts the initial post...and just kind of...vanishes!
As my personal hero Popeye would say...
"What a co-ink-i-dink!"
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Because girlfriend is one word whereas "friend or roommate or girlfriend" is multiple.
Which is part of the problem with all this politically correct b!#~+#&@. It over complicates simple phrasing, and people take it to the extreme that an imperfectly phrased sentence is something to jump on and pretend to be offended about.
It's only offensive if people choose to take it that way. "Girlfriend" is not some kind of slur, and is not meant to be an insult. He didn't say "<Offensive Slur Of Some Kind>" or anything like that.
It was an innocuous, half-joking question that happened to reference a fairly common scenario. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen. The scenario is vague enough in that regard that you can't really tell. But it is a somewhat important question, no matter how you phrase it. Perhaps the most blunt and direct way being to simply ask "Why do you need to keep her around?"
It is anything but "innocuous" - it perpetuates the stereotype that we are only in games if we're dating another player. It suggests we're not legitimate gamers, it sexualizes us in a non-sexual context, and it defines us solely by our relationships to male gamers. In short, it doesn't treat us like full participants or human beings.
So yes, you should have asked, "Why do you need to keep her around/why are you putting up with her behavior?" That's a legitimate, simple question that doesn't make actively harmful assumptions about why other players are putting up with a problematic player. Which is the actual question here and has nothing to do with gender.
Words have meanings, and they have effects on how people perceive their world and the people in it. Saying "it's just a word" is disingenuous at best.
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Is it bad that I can now officially say that i'm more interested in getting an answer to the question of 'is she dating another one of the players' than I am in the possibility of resolving the OP's question?
Sure we can argue non existant non published statistics till we're blue in the face. True it may make some of the posters here mysoginistic genderbiased misanthropes to some degree for suggesting it...
While it is certainly not only possible but arguably even likely for a lady to be a gamer without having entered into or sustained a relationship with another gamer at the table, the gut feeling I get is that the post everyone's up in arms about is true.
First we know you've got a disruptive person who resists assimilation into the group, to the very point where the OP says it's a 'Last ditch effort' (read: every attempt has been made to rehabilitate)... to quote the op "We've been trying to help her so we don't have to kick her out, but nothing seem to be working."
Given the obvious easy choice of kicking her out because life's too short.
The question of 'why are we bothering to try not to kick her out' becomes the most pertinent question. The short list of most likely possibilities, no matter how chauvenist they may be include:
It reminds me of the final conversation from the Milla Jovovich Joan of Arc movie. Where Dustin Hoffman reminds her of all the possible ways in which she could have found a sword in a field... And the ludicrousness of the one she finally chose to accept.
Yes it is absolutely totally possible that this is a genuinely selfless table trying their best to invite another player into the fold. It is no less likely that such a generous and giving table would resort to asking us here in the forums for any possibility of a last ditch unthought of solution to their problem. While I hope I'm wrong, I find myself on the side of the folks who believe that a girl who isnt attatched to another gamer at the table that the table prefers to keep would not be worth the time and effort.
I speak from a position of being exactly one of those tables that welcomes new people all the time and tries to make the introduction to gaming a smooth, fun, exciting one. She's been with the table for a 'long time now' and the things about her which strike me most about his description of her are 'she makes trouble and when she isnt making trouble she's knitting?"
She doesnt 'sound' like she likes gaming enough to be called a gamer. Take gender completely off the table and she flat out doesnt sound like the kind of person who'd be interested in gaming at all. If life's too short to have a crappy gamer at the table then the reverse is also true. Why would a person go out of their way to be a gamer if all they want to do is be a pain in the butt at a table where everyone thinks you're a pain in the a$$ and knit? That doesn't sound like a quality contribution to the hobby or to the table... So the question remains... Why is she here and why does the OP care about making 'one last ditch effort' to keep such bile at the table?
Of the three possibilities above, I don't see option one as being the ludicrous one. Its not a gender illegitimizing stance. It's not painting a picture that girl gamers dont exist or that the only way they get into gaming is through joining in on the games of their significant other... Its an 'if you dont like the table then why do you show up to it. why do you bring toxic to the table and why would the table put up with it'. Thats a gender free question. I can say for sure that 'sometimes you gotta boot the bad apple' comes quicker to most tables than it doesnt, so 'why is she there' and 'why havent you booted her yet' do become more clearly weighted to the 'companion' theory.
It would in fact be gender bias to presume that a crappy gamer should be kept around or coddled so much just because she's a girl. So if that's not happening then why hasn't she been booted and why does she still voluntarily show up to this situation?
I love gaming so much that i'll play through multiple sessions where everyone hates me and in the meantime i'll just knit and hope it improves? Thats twilight zone brain right there. And its non gender biased twilight zone brain. Even dudes don't love gaming enough to repeatedly and disinterestedly decide to haze a gametable week in and week out no matter how much they love the hobby.