What to do with low lvl spell slots at high lvl?


Advice


Very general, just what 1st, 2nd, 3rd lvl spells, can you use at later lvls so these aren't dead spell slots? The biggest thing I notice is the DCs if I'm now lvl 14 monsters don't even need to roll a 5 to save against my 1st lvl spells. Second the buff spells are hardly worth the turn spent on casting for a +1 or +2.

Class or build doesn't matter for this discussion, just what are those spell slots for, why do we keep them, what does the game creators intend us to do with them?

But if someone really wants more specifics, lets say I'm playing a 14th lvl Caster Cleric.


at higher levels, just fill your low level slots with spells that arent going to require saves such as utility spells, buffs, and minor heal spells to use out of combat


There are some useful spells in the low levels:

Any decent buff will have a 1/min per level casting time - and depending on the situation, 14 minutes is plenty of time to get stuff done. If you have a lesser rod of extend, that'll double to 28 min.

That duration lets you cast em prior to combat.

Steer clear of combat spells or anything that gives the opposing side a save.

The 'Remove X' spells are good. As is Lesser Restoration - not for in combat stuff, but to remove some of the ability damage/fatigue after.

Spiritual Weapon scales okay, and is a 'fire and forget' spell.

Invisibilty Purge can be very useful.

Resist Energy and Protection from Energy are great especially since you should be able to use your higher spells to deduce what you'll be fighting. Blue Dragon? Ice Devil? Trolls (let your mage fireball you - who cares, you're Resisting 30 points). You'll be Resisting 30 points and/or blocking 120 points of damage. Much better than having to heal it later.

The Exchange

Mage armor, grease, true strike, daylight, enlarge person, fly, invisibility, silence, fog cloud, protection from x, mirror image, illusions, .....


And don't forget the Metamagic feats that let you 'pump up' a lower level spell, often making it superior to an equivalent higher-level spell.

Grand Lodge

Calybos1 wrote:

And don't forget the Metamagic feats that let you 'pump up' a lower level spell, often making it superior to an equivalent higher-level spell.

That doesn't really answer the OP's question because it moves those spells out of the low level slots. He's looking to make use of the low slots themselves.


It does if you use Rods. Rods do not adjust the memorization level.

Any self respecting Wizard should have several metamagic rods on hand. The Lesser Rods are so cheap you can buy several different ones.

GenericDrift hit the nail on the head. There are a lot of low level utility spells that start awesome and stay awesome. Greasing the BBEG's uber weapon never gets old.


Mage Armor - dur hour * caster level
Grease - interupts charging even if no one falls down
Stone Call - interupts charging even if damage is small
Endure Elements - 24 hour duration, cast it on everyone
True Strike - Some creatures are tough to hit even with a ranged touch attack, so this makes it stick
Silent Image - only save if interacting
Vanish/Invisibility - forever good
Summon Mon 1 - can't disarm the trap
Detect Secret Doors - somethings are really hidden
Detect Undead -
Obscuring Mist -
Protection From Evil -
Polypurpose Panacea - woot!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Liberating command is actually *better* at higher levels than at lower levels.

Protection from evil never gets old.

Shocking grasp is a nice option for dealing with high-AC targets.

Divine favor scales nicely, though it's a personal-only cleric spell.

Grease is great because it can get a buddy out of grapples and it blocks charge lanes.


Jiggy wrote:
... Grease is great because it can get a buddy out of grapples ...

I always forget about that use.


I love shenanigans with grease. I've greased a board and slid down a steep hill before to escape the baddies.


Grease may be one of the first spells a caster should use on them self when facing any monster that has a penchant for grappling. Though the imagery just makes me laugh. "That tentacled horror isn't getting me!" the fighter looks over at the wizard with a raised eyebrow. "Did you just lube up for the fight...." ;\


Narrater wrote:
Grease may be one of the first spells a caster should use on them self when facing any monster that has a penchant for grappling. Though the imagery just makes me laugh. "That tentacled horror isn't getting me!" the fighter looks over at the wizard with a raised eyebrow. "Did you just lube up for the fight...." ;\

I usually lube the dwarf meatsheild. :-)


Most people have been throwing wizard spells around. Let's look at some good low-level cleric spells.

1st level:

Endure elements certainly makes life handy for those strange environments you may be adventuring in.

Liberating command, murderous command, and command are all handy for dealing with some situations.

The protection spells won't be giving extra eflection/resistance bonuses at this level (you should have items or higher-level spells that supersede them), but shutting down mind control and preventing summoned creatures from getting at you never gets old. Even if you have the long-duration magic circle up, you may want to protect someone who's more than 10' from you.

Tap inner beauty gives you an insight bonus on all Charisma checks. Like all your face activities, for instance. Insight bonuses are not common.

2nd level:

Align weapon is very handy if nobody has it built permanently into their weapon.

Augury never gets old (though, honestly, if you know enough to want to cast the spell, you probably already know the answer.)

Grace is handy for moving around the battlefield, particularly with things on it that can do LOTS of damage with one AoO.

Hold person is still handy for making other people not move around the battlefield.

Remove paralysis is handy.

Resist energy never goes out of style.

Lesser restoration is probably better as a wand, but there's a lot of ability-damaging fatigue-inflicting attacks at higher levels.

Silence is a very nice spell -- shut down casters in tight areas, or ready to cast it when an enemy casts, then cast it around him. What second level spell can counter ninth level spells?

Sound burst -- area effect save-or-stun.

Undetectable alignment for infiltration missions.

Weapon of awe gives weapons a static damage bonus and inflicts an extra effect (shaken) on crits. Do I have to explain why a crit-fishing fighter, or an archer, will LOVE you for casting this on them?

3rd level:

daylight is handy in some situations, as is deeper darkness.

dispel magic retains its utility for a very long time.

invisibility purge can be very nice, though it's situational.

locate object is handy for certain quests

The magic circle spells are very useful (see above under protection spells) and can, among other things, replace deflection/resistance magic items for companions, cohorts, or other people who may not have them for some reason.

Two magic vestment spells every morning should be HUGE for you -- they're +3 at 14th level, meaning instead of buying +3 armor and shield, you can buy +1 armor and shield with some very nice effects on them and then make them +3 anyway. Won't matter if you already have +4 armor and shield, but do you?

Prayer retains its utility for a very long time, and it's a group buff-debuff with a rare luck bonus. Subtle but strong.

Protection from energy and remove blindness/deafness are both situational, but in their situation you need them BADLY. Know what you're going up against?

If you cast healing spells a lot, sacred bond lets you cast them on someone from a distance.

Speak with dead and water breathing are situational, but useful.

Wind wall makes enemy archers cry huge hot tears of pain. Harder to use with friendly archers in your party, but not impossible.

Silver Crusade

Edit: ninja'd!

Just looking at core cleric spells.

1nd Level
Comprehend Languages. A good utility spell.

Cure light wounds. Of course you don't memorize it because you can drop spells for it. But it is still useful outside of combat when someone is down just a little.

Endure elements. Another good utility spell.

Entropic shield. Grants a 20% miss chance against ranged attacks. Awesome defense spell when you are pinned down by archers. Excellent against evil gunslingers.

Obscuring mist. If used right it can provide effective concealment. Not always helpful, but in the right situation...

Protection from evil. The numerical bonuses aren't awesome, but the main feature is valuable against evil outsiders (which you are likely facing at that level). Consider a rod of heighten spell.

Shield of faith. Scales very well.

Summon monster I. Flank buddy. If you summon something you can communicate with, consider suggesting that it use the Aid Another action. Even if the bad guys squash it in one round, that is one attack that doesn't hit you.

2nd Level
Align weapon. Lasts 14 minutes. Cast on the fighter's favorite sword.

Consecrate/desecrate. Awesome low-level spells when dealing with undead in one way or another.

Cure moderate wounds. See above.

Death knell. I you are evil, who can't use +1 CL?

Find Traps. For when your party rogue bites the dust.

Remove paralysis. If you have the spell slots for it, this one can be a life-saver.

Resist energy. Energy resistance 30 for 2 hours. How awesome for delving into that volcano with the red dragon.

Restoration, lesser. A must-have. Extremely useful out of combat.

Shield other. Cast on the fighter. It is easier to heal yourself standing 90 ft. away from the fight than to wade in to heal him.

Silence. Cast on the barbarian, monk, or rogue, and send him after the enemy spell caster.

Summon monster II. See above.

3rd Level
Cure serious wounds. See above.

Daylight. When someone casts darkness...

Dispel magic. This scales so well, that you might consider not taking any other 3rd-level spells. And at 240 ft. away.

Glyph of warding. For when you absolutely must sleep in the dungeon.

Invisibility purge. Done.

Magic Circle. See protection from evil above.

Magic vestment. Your armor gains a +3 bonus. All working day.

Meld into stone. Under the right circumstances. Or if you can fit it into your group tactics.

Protection from energy. Like resist energy, but better.

Searing light. Still useful at 14th level. Especially against undead. Also, it is a ranged touch attack.

Summon Monster III. See above.

Water breathing. Situational, but obvious when it is necessary.


A few times, I have cast mage armor on everyone including the guy wearing plate. Just because it seemed like the type of area that might have ghost-ish monsters and it lasts most of the day.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

tonyz wrote:
Silence is a very nice spell -- shut down casters in tight areas, or ready to cast it when an enemy casts, then cast it around him. What second level spell can counter ninth level spells?

You can only ready a standard action (or smaller). Silence has a casting time of 1 round. Thus, you can't ready it.


Quote:
You can only ready a standard action (or smaller). Silence has a casting time of 1 round. Thus, you can't ready it.

Oh, well, so much for that idea. Thanks.

(I suppose you could ready a quickened silence, though.)


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Cast silence and invisibility on your sneaky rogue after you tell him to follow the enemy caster around so he can't cast spells. He just has to ready an action to follow.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Cast silence and invisibility on your sneaky rogue after you tell him to follow the enemy caster around so he can't cast spells. He just has to ready an action to follow.

By the time silence and invisibility are both running, it doesn't really need to be the "sneaky rogue", now does it? ;)


Jiggy wrote:
Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Cast silence and invisibility on your sneaky rogue after you tell him to follow the enemy caster around so he can't cast spells. He just has to ready an action to follow.
By the time silence and invisibility are both running, it doesn't really need to be the "sneaky rogue", now does it? ;)

LOL, probably not. But that is who we always used it on. Then when the times was right he was set up for major sneak attack. He also had the best chance of getting away if it turned out someone could see the invisible silent dude.

Sovereign Court

Longstrider, for druids.

Silver Crusade

Expeditious Retreat - for when you need that extra maneuverability.

Air Bubble - never know when the GM will spring a water trap on you.

Delay Poison - With an all work day duration, why not? Communal version on the party before they enter a poisonous creatures lair or attack the drow never hurts.

In fact, any of the communal versions of spells, Nice to be able to buff the party for the upcoming bad guy.

Unfortunately, invisible rogues don't do too well at this level without mind blank. Way too many monsters at this level have true sight, scent, blindsense, blindsight, or tremorsense. Have a rogue in my game trying to deal with this problem. He's pretty much retooled into a trip master.


Agree with pretty much everything others have said will add.

Alarm: Can be very useful as a low level spell. For more then just protecting your sleep area. Putting one up in a choke point behind you can prevent surprise attacks.

Endure Elements: Having near complete protection from environmental conditions can be vital depending on the game even at higher levels.

Unseen servant: As a torch bearer when they aren't being used to take enemy weapons away after disarms, opening unlocked doors (no sense wasting an action doing that in a dungeon), being used to set off traps, reload your crossbow after firing. Aside from direct combat it has so many uses that I could hardly touch on them all. Heck it just makes your high level caster more mysterious and larger then life when s/he calls to the air for tea and the tea seems to make itself and float directly to your hands. That is bound to be impressive to those who don't deal with magic regularly.

Detect Thoughts: Even at higher levels of play NPC's don't always have to be high level to have useful information that this spell can ferret out.

Glitterdust: useful in outlining invisible enemies even if they aren't blinded by the spell.

Flaming Sphere: does meh damage but only takes a move action to control and unlike its various higher level iterations can be used as a focus for the pyrotechnics spell to make a moving smoke cloud that blocks line of sight.

Make Whole: Fixing your broke magical gear is pretty important and if you have a player that uses sunder fixing useful enemy equipment can be just as important.

Charm person: As with detect thoughts not every situation is going to be with high level enemies. Having low level npc's that are favorably disposed towards you can be very useful.


I mostly agree with the two who already posted ideas, but I was typing these before I saw them, so they're being put up regardless :P

1st levels:
I think Divine Favor has too short of a duration to be practical. It's a Round -1 buff, and I only rarely see any of those.

Liberating Command might be the best level 1 spell for later in the game. Definitely take this--it has saved myself and my party on quite a few occasions.

The Protection from [Alignment] spells are great, not for the AC bonus since you'll probably have Rings of Protection and Cloaks of Resistance, but for the mind control immunity. You may want the 2nd level Communal version or the 3rd level Magic Circle instead.

Remove Fear has a long enough duration and at high levels hits the whole party that I think its worth having if you expect necromancers or dragons and stuff.

Remove Sickness is good for the same reason, though it trades the extra targets for a longer duration.

Shield of Faith scales pretty well, and might actually beat out your party's Rings of Protection.

2nd level:
Defending Bone would give you DR 5/Bludgeoning for 10 hits or 14 hours, whichever comes first. Not bad.

Delay Poison is an extremely long duration poison immunity effect well worth having. You may prefer the 3rd level Communal version, though. The same goes for Delay Pain, except that Pain effects are significantly less common.

Find Traps gives you an automatic roll to find traps you pass near, so it's practically immunity to traps (seriously, it's a Wisdom skill you probably have maxed and you'll get a hefty bonus on top of that).

Grace is a swift action and fantastic for retreats or moving through enemy lines to deliver touches, etc.

Imbue with Aura seems terrible, but if you have a Paladin or Inquisitor in your group capable of casting Litany of Righteousness, you can use it to literally double someone's damage for a turn.

Remove Paralysis is useless most of the time, but is a life saver when it's not--if I were you, I might consider putting it in a "just in case slot" every day.

Resist Energy and the 2nd level Communal version is, I think, a much better defense than Protection from Energy. It lasts a while, has no limit, and provides so much Resistance, you're unlikely to be harmed if you make your save for half.

Lesser Restoration is probably wand fodder (you can get them for 750 gp if a Paladin makes it), but if you lack a wand, you'll be using this spell a lot on the day after nasty fights.

For healer types, I love Shield Other. Channel Energy becomes twice as effective if damage is shared, and for Paladins, LoH is a swift action, so it's easier to heal yourself than anyone else.

Silence your melee warriors and stay back away from them as they charge and nullify the enemy casters. The short duration is lame, though.

Weapon of Awe is a decent buff, if only because sacred damage buffs are rare, and adding "shaken on a crit" to a crit fisher is sweet. The duration is shorter than I'd like, though, and +2 damage is kind of irrelevant at your level, but it's not the worst.

3rd level:
Invisibility Purge stays useful for a long time.

Magic Vestment if anyone in your party lacks +3 Armor/Shield.

Nap Stack, once a week, is surprisingly awesome, especially for overcoming/recovering from diseases/poisons/other ability damage.

Prayer is a good 2 point swing with no save--if you have no more useful action to take, it's worth doing.

Stone Shape is one of the best spells in the game for the creative caster (with a GM that allows creativity).

Summon Monster III gets you Lantern Archons--they never run out of style.


There's one 3rd-level spell that people are forgetting that I think is still pretty good even at higher levels: Animate Dead.

Kind of a must-have for Nercomancer clerics and stuff.

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