Hi guys, I was thinking of buying a complete AP for my next campaing and I can't decide which one to buy. Is there a general consensus on their quality, or are they all good/bad? thanks for the help in advance.
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I don't think there's a particularly clear winner, different groups favour different styles. That said the ones that tend to get the most popular acclaim seem to be RotRL, CotCT, KM, and CC.
On the flip side, SD seems to have few supporters, and support for the rest is mixed -- any one AP will likely be loved by some, loathed by others , and considered okay by most.
Or adapt some of the 3.5 ones -- IMO both Age of Worms and Savage Tide have some of the strongest elements of any AP.
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It depends how much work you want to put in as well. I agree with pretty much everything Callum said, however RotRL, CotCT, SD, and LoF were all written for the 3.5 ruleset. At this time only RotRL has been updated to Pathfinder, in the Hardcover Anniversary edition. (An absolutely wonderful book, I might add).
So the question gets to be: What kind of game to you want to run? If your looking for the archtypical "Dungeons and Dragons" that has the feel of classic sword and sorcery, you could do A lot worse than picking up the Hardcover of Rise of the Runelords.
If you guys are more of a horror and gothic, Ravenloft crowd, then Carrion Crown is probably more what you want.
I could keep going, but I think an easier question would be: Can you tell us what you're looking for, for your campaign?
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Or adapt some of the 3.5 ones -- IMO both Age of Worms and Savage Tide have some of the strongest elements of any AP.I'm curious as to why you say that. Is it because those APs were twice as long?
If I would guess, I would say that the length is part of it, but I feel like there is a more "grandiose" feeling to the Dungeon APs on the whole. Now of the three I've only been able to play through Savage Tide, but by the end of it you were cutting deals with Grazzt and Malcanthet, and then taking on Demogorgon head on! I also was a huge fan of the Vanderborens and their relationship to the PCs and each other, and how that developed through the AP.
In general, the Pathfinder APs seem to have a smaller scale feel in general, it isn't so much "save the universe" as it is "save the Country" or the city.
Now that said, I'm speaking with nostalgia goggles on, Savage Tide was what got me into APs, so it's easy for me to remember what I loved,and forget about what I disliked.
Also, I love the Pathfinder APs, and don't think I actually agree with the statement that the Dungeon era ones were stronger products. So I may be completely offbase here.
Creative Director
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If I would guess, I would say that the length is part of it, but I feel like there is a more "grandiose" feeling to the Dungeon APs on the whole. Now of the three I've only been able to play through Savage Tide, but by the end of it you were cutting deals with Grazzt and Malcanthet, and then taking on Demogorgon head on! I also was a huge fan of the Vanderborens and their relationship to the PCs and each other, and how that developed through the AP.
In general, the Pathfinder APs seem to have a smaller scale feel in general, it isn't so much "save the universe" as it is "save the Country" or the city.
Now that said, I'm speaking with nostalgia goggles on, Savage Tide was what got me into APs, so it's easy for me to remember what I loved,and forget about what I disliked.
Also, I love the Pathfinder APs, and don't think I actually agree with the statement that the Dungeon era ones were stronger products. So I may be completely offbase here.
That's an interesting observation... because doing encounters and events like the ones you mention were not really possible in Pathfinder until we got Mythic Adventures out there. Now that it IS out there, things like Wrath of the Righteous (which will please fans of Savage Tide, I suspect) can exist.
Furthermore, after Savage Tide and Age of Worms, us shifting from "Save the world" to "Save the country" was a specific reaction to reader feedback. With "Wrath of the Righteous" we are indeed doing a save the world AP... we've done a few others before as well, such as Second Darkness.
Great feedback though; thanks!
I like Jade Regent, mostly because I can inject a lot of role-playing elements into it. I also like the NPCs and the asian themes. I'm also not sucking up at all to any of the other posters in this thread.
That said, I'm working on building up a collection of all of the APs, and am looking forward to the one set in the Worldwound area - maybe I can convince someone to run it so I can be a PC for a change. Love me some paladins and demon hunters.
If I had to pick one I was less enthused about, it would probably be Skull and Shackles - only because I've never been a huge pirate fan. I know, I know. Still, after reading the Wormwood mutiny, I could see myself doing it as a campaign in the future. Lots of good role-play potential, and it is fun to talk like a pirate.
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I will always be strongly biased towards Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Taking it along with the Guide to Korvosa and the included support material for Varisian and Shoanti culture, it's one of the richest APs of the bunch, with a huge cast of well developed NPCs(and the city itself) that players will easily get invested in.
And if you have a group that doesn't roll with just a "it's evil, kill it" playstyle, there is a lot of meat to be had.
Urban adventure, intrigue, meeting/exploring new cultures, and one of the most satisfying central villains ever.
Is good.
Also, from a player perspective, Jade Regent is turning out to be all sorts of awesome.
It really is. Although I must say I hated, hated, HATED modules three endless grinding journey over the North Pole. Geezus.
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.. because travelling over the Pole is such a joyous thing? :p
Its important to keep the perspective here. If you're playing an AP that features a Long Journey, its good to have the experience f what a long journey actually is - a really tedious, demanding and exhausting affair.
Just try reading about Shackletons last expedition to the South pole
I'm actually going through part 3 right now and I'm enjoying it. Haven't had to deal with any of the natural hazards like blizzards (yet) but we've dealt with plenty of wildlife.
The problem is that, as written in the module, very little roleplaying happens and rather lots, and I mean a metric ton of random encounters.
It gets beyond tedious to GM the "only one encounter in a day" type of encounters where the party doesn't need to take care of their resources and can just blast away with impunity. It was one of the main causes why I stopped GM'ing Kingmaker, and I am happy to say that the roleplaying quota has gone up significantly now that we have arrived in module four. The last two sessions were exhilerating.
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Way of the Wicked.
This is the one you want for playing evil. I'm only about half way into part 1, but it's really well done so far. The opening starts brilliantly too.
Avatar-1,
Glad you're enjoying "Way of the Wicked" and thanks for recommending us!
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
The problem is that, as written in the module, very little roleplaying happens and rather lots, and I mean a metric ton of random encounters.
It gets beyond tedious to GM the "only one encounter in a day" type of encounters where the party doesn't need to take care of their resources and can just blast away with impunity. It was one of the main causes why I stopped GM'ing Kingmaker, and I am happy to say that the roleplaying quota has gone up significantly now that we have arrived in module four. The last two sessions were exhilerating.
We haven't really had that problem, instead having more RPing with each other and the NPCs with us. Also some NPCs we've come across, like the arms merchant caravan that's joined us. Or that crazy witchfire. Hot damn that was a nuts encounter. Also we enjoy the focus on travel and exploration a bit more. Personally, I like that we aren't stuck in one place for a whole campaign.
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Or that crazy witchfire. Hot damn that was a nuts encounter.
Augh, I heard how that went down for the parallel group that's also playing Jade Regent. It was enough to make us feel like we dodged a bullet. But even then...
The way that whole trek was run for us, it really did feel like a grueling trek through a frozen hell. It made the victories over Katiana(sp?) and at freakin' Dead Man's Dome all the more sweeter, not to mention finally making it to warmer climes. :)
Crimson Throne (3.5 rules) is probably the best overall if you're looking for a unified campaign arc.
I'd recommend Carrion Crown too and am halfway thru running Jade Regent (our group is on the north pole trek) and its been enjoyable so far.
As for Book 3 in JR
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Or adapt some of the 3.5 ones -- IMO both Age of Worms and Savage Tide have some of the strongest elements of any AP.I'm curious as to why you say that. Is it because those APs were twice as long?
I don't think so, if anything the size/scale of those APs is more problematic -- I think it mainly comes down to how easy it is for me to take the basic arc of the AP and turn it into the story I want to tell. Some APs are more adaptable than others, and my gut feel is that many of the new ones are less flexible than some of the others.
I wouldn't say that as wholes AoW and ST were the strongest overall, but rather that there are individual aspects of them that are exceptional and that can serve as a core around which the rest of the story can be adapted to suit an individual gaming group. Although the magnitude of the AoW and ST stories (1-20, the entire world gets a save or die) can be problematic in adapting them to fit a particular group's circumstances, it has advantages too -- notably in the epic "feel" of the story (particularly in the back half of each AP), and also in how easy it is to perform a chapterectomy on those parts which don't fit in with your own campaign (and to subsequently knit the remaining parts back together).
The newer APs generally seem to be much more strongly woven together, and this (along with having fewer, longer parts) makes it trickier to redesign substantial portions without having to redo the whole. Taking RoW as an example, although there isn't a specific Irrisen story I want to tell I know there are particular elements I'd want to include in it, but some of these can't easily be added in without a complete overhaul of the entire AP (in this particular case it's partly down to RoW being a Baba Yaga AP rather than an Irrisen one). Similarly, though I'm lookig forward to reading WotR I suspect that if I run a Worldwound campaign then WotR probably wouldn't fit well enough as I'd probably run something KM-style covering an entire crusade and the reclamation of Sarkoris.
Any gaming group will need to tweak any published adventure in order for it to fit in to their campaign. Unless APs are treated as entirely stand-alone (which they certainly can be) they will need a (potentially significant) number of tweaks -- and the more changes that are needed the more important it is that the unchanged parts are exceptionally strong. On the other hand, if there isn't an established campaign and the group wants a single stand-alone AP then some of the Pathfinder ones are going to be dead easy compared to AoW or ST -- a new group can (for the most part) just play them straight as published, and they'll be a lot slicker than the old Greyhawk ones.
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Completely disagree. Books two turned out to be excellent, book three was a horrible grind.
I have played or run :
Rise of the Runelords (4 of 6)
Curse of the Crimson Throne (5 of 6)
Kingmaker (completed)
Serpent Skull (5 of 6)
Carrion Crown (completed)
Skulls and Shackles (playing now in book 4)
Way of the Wicked (2 of 6 with a TPK)
I personllay liked Carrion Crown but I am a sucker for Gothic Horror.
The other players in my home game liked Kingmaker the best, they loved the kingdom building element built on well written modules.
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So, I'm sitting around at the office today on a slow afternoon and reading the messageboards and came across this interesting exchange and a lot of different thoughts came to me, which I thought I'd share...
Book 3 of Jade Regent is completely fine. Book 2 was less so.
Completely disagree. Books two turned out to be excellent, book three was a horrible grind.
First, understand I'm not attacking anyone for any view expressed within these two conflicting statements. Everyone is always entitled to their opinion. And, I have no doubt that anyone who takes the time to express an opinion here on a topic such as this, likely feels it whole-heartedly and passionately...at least enough to share it with everyone else...and, presumably, for the purpose of giving feedback to Paizo and anyone who pauses to consider their words.
So, with that in mind, here are some of my own thoughts. Agree or disagree with them. I'm not sure I'm trying to sway anyone to think about things like this differently, per se. It's just something that runs through my mind when I see a dialogue like the one above play out on the messageboards. It's not the first time I've seen it, and unlikely to be the last either.
Long, rambling thoughts:
I think, herein lies a prime example of how it's always "different strokes for different folks" and the constant battle as an author in trying to write material that applies to "most of the people, most of the time." I know lots of folks who absolutely LOVE The Hungry Storm and feel it was among the best AP chapters Paizo has EVER done. And yet, at the same time, there are others who think it's the weakest chapter in the entire Jade Regent campaign. Go figure. Both parties can't be right...at least, not on the whole. They can be right within their own specific frame of reference, but not for everyone else who may have a different frame of reference.
For instance, when I'm given a Paizo assignment, I know I sometimes look at it through the lens of, "What's the likely public reaction going to be to however I approach this subject matter within the guidelines Paizo gave me?" A good example of that is my Ashes at Dawn adventure from the Carrion Crown AP. Everyone has a HUGE amount of built-up expectations for how they interpret vampires and expect them to be portrayed and interacted with in an adventure. And, they also have lots of anticipation on what the quintessential Paizo AP module should include when the vampires of Ustalav get explored at-length in the course of a storyline which they perceived to be about Adivion Adrissant and it turned out to be more about the Whispering Way. It's difficult when something like that happens, because you're tasked with living up to the campaign outline you're given. And, among the written feedback for that module, I know I've gotten a 5-star and a 1-star review. How's that for consistency? It totally works for some players/GMs because of their preferred playstyle and expectations for the campaign...and, it totally bombs for others who find it just doesn't meet their needs and built-up anticipation (and thoughts on where they wanted the campaign to go and how they wanted it to play out). In the end, it's very hard to put an adventure right on the money for everyone...and even for most everyone.
This is why I often say to people going through RPG Superstar (with the intention of one day writing an adventure module) that you have to serve multiple audiences with what you create. You have to serve Paizo and your developers in what they expect your manuscript to contain (i.e., do justice to the outline you're given). And, at the same time, you know there's another, more varied audience out there among the buying public which has different sets of expectations, hopes, and so on, which you also need to live up to, as well. It becomes even more complicated when the buying public has conflicting expectations. Some want more sandbox and no linear. Some want a tighter story and less free-form where they're called upon to spend more effort tailoring things to their players and the whims of the PCs. Some have built-up expectations (realistic or otherwise) that an AP will provide a full-scale adventuring experience in a certain part of the world...only to discover, upon publication, that it's really more about a journey that takes you through that part of the world before moving on to elsewhere (i.e., Reign of Winter). Or, it starts out in a different place than the buying public thought it would (i.e., Reign of Winter and to a lesser degree, Jade Regent). Or it expects you to do more dungeon-crawling than outdoors, travel-related encounters than anticipated (e.g., Skull & Shackles).
To me, I kind of liken it to when people see a movie trailer and think it's all about one thing...but then, they go to the theater, watch the film, and discover it had a lot more elements...and differing elements from what they'd assumed or imagined or built up in their minds...that it sets them back. Some folks roll with those punches and take what they can from what's put in front of them, still making it a good experience rather than a poor one. Others walk away disappointed, feeling there were too many missed opportunities...or even wasted opportunities that were never exercised...because of what they expected (and wanted) an AP and its storyline to contain. A lot of Paizo's fans (and it's not just limited to Paizo, it happens to a lot of publishers) become invested in their campaign world, interpret it in various ways, and then allow those interpretations to color their expectations. Others sometimes bring expectations from other genres (Lovecraft? vampires? pirates? samurai and ninjas? etc.) that they've picked up from movies, novels, or whatever. As an author, you've got to kind of anticipate a lot of those things and find ways to put a "hook" into what you're writing that will still draw those people in and serve their imaginings. But, like anything, you can't just cater to them or you leave out someone else who had a different set of expectations from their own interpretation of Golarion or a certain genre.
The takeaway I've always had from observing this phenomenon (first as a customer like everyone else...and then as an author working within the guidelines provided by Paizo) is that it's simply impossible to meet all those expectations to a level that will satisfy everyone 100%. You strive to do the best you can and give people the most bang for their buck (and time) with the AP chapters that you're given. That's why you can't even really take the individual reviews which come back on your work (or comments like those expressed here) too harshly. As a writer, you certainly look for feedback which you feel you can apply to improve yourself. You may even encounter feedback which is really more of a statement for Paizo and the developers to consider, as it involves decisions made at the AP outline stage than something you, as an author, chose to include. Regardless, there's always feedback in many of those reviews and these messageboard comments which prove useful. But it's also vexing at times when you read some of what's conveyed and realize someone is rating something lower based more on their own expectations and it's clear that, while it didn't work for them, it did work significantly well for others.
All of that often leads to debate which can be monitored and sussed out for new ideas and ways of thinking for the next assignment. That's what I strive to do. And, yes, sometimes the louder voices (or more prolific ones) can garner more attention...which means it's all the more imperative that we seek as much feedback and response as we can get from those who read and play through our work at the actual gaming table, rather than just basing it on an intial read or a play-experience which might have been tweaked from the baseline adventure or handled poorly by their GM.
Assessing all that feedback also helps build insight into the different camps of expectations and interests which exist within the Paizo/Pathfinder fanbase. Then, we can all adapt and even brainstorm new things to reach and stoke those interests to keep the fires of the RPG industry burning bright. If anything, however, I'd coach folks to broaden their awareness of the challenge Paizo's developers and freelancers face with every product decision and design approach. Ultimately, be willing to accept that what didn't work for you, may have worked really well for someone else. Well enough, in fact, that the approach that product took might still be "right" in the sense that it served another important market which Paizo needs to cultivate...even if that market might not include you for that go-around. In the end, the collective offerings hopefully reach as broadly and deeply into all segments of the marketplace, because that strengthens the player base by attracting more people to the hobby (and retaining them), while increasing an RPG publisher's ability to stay in business and excel at what they do, for as many people as they can reach.
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
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My favorite campaigns have always been those my GM/DM created, but as far as Pazio made APs are concerned I have found some really good things about each AP so far and I enjoy the uniqueness each one has.
If I was to pick a favorite I would probably pick Serpent's Skull. It reminded me of one of my first Role playing experiences with Earthdawn 1st Ed when we did a Parlanith campaign. Savinth Yi had the same feel to it for me.
Thanks for the small dissertation on audience expectations, Neil. :) What killed the module for me was that I prefer a balanced approach to roleplaying and combat, with my preference heavily weighing on the "more roleplaying" side. The Hungry Storm had not that many opportunities for that and the abundance of random encounters and the one-combat-per-day side of those made this a slog for me to get through.
Forest of Spirits started off with an excellent roleplaying opportunity in Ordu-Aganhei and continues with more RP potential until the House of Withering Blossoms. Which I've completely replaced with the Ruby Phoenix Tournament, which has a lot more roleplaying than the real second half of the module, so that works out well, too. ^^
Currently we are playing The Hungry Storm (just did a game) and we've had a great deal of RPing between just us and the NPCs we've been kind of lugging around. Especially since we have a new character who's earned our trust and my character has since soured on Ameiko.
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That's an interesting observation...
Can I sneak in my own thoughts? 'Savage Tide' remains my favorite AP because of the variety of types of adventures contained within it. Pathfinder APs have a narrower focus than the old Dungeon Mag ones, and I find myself wanting to take a break half way through so I can experience something different.
Fer instance, 'Rise of the Runelords' basically boils down to excursions into ever-larger monster lairs and 'Skull & Shackles' is 15-ish levels of sailing and islands.
ST, meanwhile, included dungeons, sailing, city-building, wilderness exploration, politicking and so-on.
That's why I'm one of six people who actually really liked 'A History of Ash' in Crimson Throne. It was a really nice change from three volumes of different city encounters.
For what THAT'S worth.
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I have found that it depends on the GM. If the GM is enthused about the story and willing to run with it, it can make a world of difference! Right now, for me it is a toss up between Rise of the Runelords and Jade Regent.
Jade Regent was a little slow to get into but once we crossed the Crown of the World, our GM got into his groove...
I have only played Burnt Offerings, but have run the entirety of Rise of the Runelords. However, I do not think that it would have been as fun if I had run it as written...
Currently we are playing The Hungry Storm (just did a game) and we've had a great deal of RPing between just us and the NPCs we've been kind of lugging around. Especially since we have a new character who's earned our trust and my character has since soured on Ameiko.
Yeah, but you can have that kind of RP in every module, even if it is just the party standing in a room, without any help from the AP writer. What I am talking about is roleplaying opportunities provided by the writer of the module, with placed NPCs and the use of events.
All of the stuff you were describing in what I quoted is coming from your GM and not through things provided by the AP writer.
That's an interesting observation...and 'Skull & Shackles' is 15-ish levels of sailing and islands.
yes, a brilliant idea ! ( ok, to each his own). and actually the final six levels of SnS had some of the...ahem....... dumXXXXXed dungeon crawling ever. Straight boring and off the shelf, slightly adaped for pirates. THERE IS NO DUNGEON CRAWLING IN PIRATES !
please name me a decent pirate movie that runs that wayWhich is why I loved "Savage Tides" until one started changing planes: fun, unexpected exploration, ships, lone islands, great recurring villains ( all me "vanderboren !" ).... lovely. And only one large dungeon area.....
hated Age of Worms ( no worms fo me), Shackled City was sooooo... uneven in quality
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Which is why I loved "Savage Tides" until one started changing planes:
And even then you could play up the inter-dimensional sailing as the PCs take their boat onto the River Styx.
But I will say Skull & Shackles was my least favorite AP, possibly because I went into it wanting so much to enjoy it. I've a lot of small little problems with the volumes I have (I confess I stopped buying halfway thru), but I think the biggest handicap is that the Pathfinder RPG concepts (wizards and trolls and plate armor) don't map too well on a campaign trying very hard to look like a 17th century high-seas adventure.
Now, my gaming group is physically incapable of completing an Adventure Path, so my opinions are only half based on practical experience. Still, we had a great time *starting* Age of Worms and Rise of the Runelords.
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That's an interesting observation...Can I sneak in my own thoughts? 'Savage Tide' remains my favorite AP because of the variety of types of adventures contained within it. Pathfinder APs have a narrower focus than the old Dungeon Mag ones, and I find myself wanting to take a break half way through so I can experience something different.
For instance, 'Rise of the Runelords' basically boils down to excursions into ever-larger monster lairs and 'Skull & Shackles' is 15-ish levels of sailing and islands.
ST, meanwhile, included dungeons, sailing, city-building, wilderness exploration, politicking and so-on.
That's why I'm one of six people who actually really liked 'A History of Ash' in Crimson Throne. It was a really nice change from three volumes of different city encounters.
For what THAT'S worth.
While you have a point, I felt that some things needed to be pointed out:
Rise of the Runelords is more diverse than you make it sound, I think - 1) Sandpoint brings a great angle to the AP, which is getting to feel at home in a cozy little forntier town, and learn to know all the local people and locations. I feel this is an important part of the AP.
2) In part #2 there is a murder investigation, followed by exploring not the caverns of a humanoid but a haunted house, which is a very different thing.
3) In part #3 the PCs capture and rebuild a fort, which provieds some of the fun that building Farshore had in Savage Tide. Later in this module, they also travel to a dark fey forest, which is again a nice change of pace.
4) Parts #4 and #5 are exactly what you said they are, just unintereting dungeon crawls, though part #4 did have the awesome "defend Sandpoint from dragons and giants" part, which I feel is quite a unique part on it's own right.
5) In part #6 we get a refreshing change of pace once again, with an expedition through mountians to reach a fabled city, and then exploration of the city itself, being quite different from dungeon crawling.
I guess the point I'm driving at is that the Paizo APs are far more diverse than you give them credit for - remember, they are shorter than the dungeon APs, so they have more limited space to wiggle, which dosen't stop them from offering a large variaty of things to do.
please name me a decent pirate movie that runs that wayThe Goonies is pretty much a dungeon crawl to find a pirate treasure. But since 'decent' is a matter of opinion, YMMV.
hmmm, I meant something with more "AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGHHHHHH", flashing sabres and swashbuckling... ˆˆ
Flynn, Fairbanks etc. or Cutthroat Island, PotC or Polanski's Pirates....... yeah and some less "demons and golems" and some more "sharp duels"
Actually - and I realizes they are far harder to write up than one BBEG - I do miss fights against groups of opponents ( three and up) which due to the economy of actions put more pressure on PCs, and allow a wider versatility of actions for the GM
"meet the linear Guild !"
OH and I don't think the Paizo APs are actually shorter...savage tides, level 1-20 stretched over 10-11 issues (?), but only took up part of the issue itself (not the 50%+ the paizo crew aims at ). But, there has been a strong tendency to insert masses of fluff, instead of "cool situations"... "Ẃho writes up the coolest Pirate Captain" in SnS comes to mind (I really did NOT need two pages of backstory for Mr. Plugg or a write up of the Master of Gales... or Andorax Endymion. That is stuff much better located in the player's guide - or a "Nasty Pirates of the Shackles" companion . But there were up to eight pages of those writeups in almost every issue....
Just my take, I guess
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But I will say Skull & Shackles was my least favorite AP, possibly because I went into it wanting so much to enjoy it. I've a lot of small little problems with the volumes I have (I confess I stopped buying halfway thru), but I think the biggest handicap is that the Pathfinder RPG concepts (wizards and trolls and plate armor) don't map too well on a campaign trying very hard to look like a 17th century high-seas adventure.
I would then cordially invite you to grab a copy of Scott Lynch's "Red Sea under Red Skies" or Tim Powers original "On Stranger Tides" to have blast in (almost) cannon-free fantasy settings with brilliant pirate plots.
ok, no trolls in either, though
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.. because travelling over the Pole is such a joyous thing? :p
Its important to keep the perspective here. If you're playing an AP that features a Long Journey, its good to have the experience f what a long journey actually is - a really tedious, demanding and exhausting affair.
Just try reading about Shackletons last expedition to the South pole
My Uncle Ernie thanks you for this endorsement.
No spoilers, don't worry.
If you have the time to read and revise Second Darkness it could be great. It starts very strong - Riddleport is an amazing city with a lot of potential. You can add just about anything you want into it and just wrap the players into it. However there is a turning point where what you are leaving behind is a lot more interesting and involving than what you are getting ahead and every book seems to be a bit softer than the previous.
That said - there are some amazing ideas that I can now see (in hindsight)that could work wonderfully! If you are going to run Second Darkness, I'd recommend talking to someone who has GM'd it before and asking their advice on the later parts of it.
If you haven't run Runelords though, my advice would be to grab the hardcover and gung-ho. Strong path, great revisions and lots of fun.
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We haven't really had that problem, instead having more RPing with each other and the NPCs with us. Also some NPCs we've come across, like the arms merchant caravan that's joined us. Or that crazy witchfire. Hot damn that was a nuts encounter. Also we enjoy the focus on travel and exploration a bit more. Personally, I like that we aren't stuck in one place for a whole campaign.
You do know I've been heavily editing the AP to make it more fun for you all? Like playing up some of the encounters that should have taken weeks of random encounters. Mixed in with stuff like the weapon's merchant, played up the Witchfire encounter more, added in little tidbits to make the towers more interesting. Etc.
My biggest gripe with Jade Regent is you have to tug along pet NPCs. Any AP where you don't have to do this is a good AP. I don't mind having NPC allies that you meet frequently. Or hirelings. That's fine. But when you have a bunch of leveling NPCs critical to the plot. You have problems. Fights I have to calcualte for 5 players suddently become giant battles with 10+ characters including the NPCs. It's a headache.
I've had issues with ALL the APs, mostly due to the travel log nature of them it's hard to establish any major homes or stomping grouds for the group. Crimson Throne (minus the 2 part adventure outside the city) was great. Bumming around building up your own revolution in Westcrown was awesome.
Frankly I'd love an AP that is set Absolom where the PC's take on criminal gangs, local church politics, explore one of the local mega dungeons for a few floors (Red Redoubt would be perfect for this), and then have it end with an epic siege on the Star Stone...maybe by the forces of Razmir!
That said, I've found bits and pices of APs lovely. The Innsmouth rip in Carrion Crown, lovely! The adventures with the Dragonriders in the recent AP, yes!
If I was to do a greatest hits it would be bits and pices from all sorts.
I'm looking forward to Iron Gods, and I hope the whole thing is awesome. But if not I'm going to mine that sucker for ideas for my OWN adventure!
I just leave the NPCs with the caravan, haven't leveled them up and never include them in fights, if anyone in my party was human i would have made them the last Amatatsu heir but they aren't , still an awesome adventure path NPCs or no NPCs. in fact the end half will probably be more entertaining and challenging without them there stealing thunder:)
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I just leave the NPCs with the caravan, haven't leveled them up and never include them in fights, if anyone in my party was human i would have made them the last Amatatsu heir but they aren't , still an awesome adventure path NPCs or no NPCs. in fact the end half will probably be more entertaining and challenging without them there stealing thunder:)
I have when I can, but there were a few ambushes, and direct attacks against the caravan (that happens frequently in Hungry Storm).
Then again, the battle against the ghosts at Dead Man's Dome was pretty epic. At least I thought it was from the GM side of things.
I just leave the NPCs with the caravan, haven't leveled them up and never include them in fights, if anyone in my party was human i would have made them the last Amatatsu heir but they aren't , still an awesome adventure path NPCs or no NPCs. in fact the end half will probably be more entertaining and challenging without them there stealing thunder:)I have when I can, but there were a few ambushes, and direct attacks against the caravan (that happens frequently in Hungry Storm).
Then again, the battle against the ghosts at Dead Man's Dome was pretty epic. At least I thought it was from the GM side of things.
i posted my solution to caravan combat in the thread on random encounters, that might help you:)
for the dead man's dome i just ran it as a straight up battle described the npcs fighting in the background then used the generic Graveknight stats for the dead man from bestiary 3 it was pretty awesome
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Another vote for Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition from me.
Every player (whether GM or PC)needs to experience Runeforge.
Really? would you mind to explain why in further detail? I'm asking because I consider parts 4 and 5 of RotR to be the weakest in the campaign... with 1,2 and 3 being excellent low level adventures and part 6 being an excellent high level adventure, but parts 4 and 5 being kind of standard and uninteresting.
Maybe the issue is that I judge the adventures only from reading them? is the runeforge very fun to play? because it's kinda boring as a read...
And besides, there's Shattered Star. I'm pretty sure part 5 of Shattered Star is a better dungeon than the runeforge...
