| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Anyone laughing at someone playing a bard in PFS is being foolish. They're very useful. I've played one of my characters up to 10th mostly in the company of a bard, and they're nothing to sniff at.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
|
I for one enjoy bards, and they can sometimes be the most powerful characters in a group. Who else can eventually grant +5 to attack and damage to every single character/ally in the group. (Inspire +3 & Good Hope by level 11 with more possible not to mention an extra attack if you drop on haste.) When a lot of players tend to have melee monsters, Bards come in and make them shine all the more. Every extra damage bards give others counts towards the damage they themselves deal (when it comes to bragging rights) and anytime someone "just hits" the bad guys by one or two because the bard is singing, the entire damage done is all for the bard to brag about. :) Not to mention they can make great face characters, and a lot of times having good knowledge skills makes scenarios much easier, which is another place bards shine.
When you purchase things with prestige, it bypasses the fame cap. You aren't actually buying it, but your faction is loaning it to you as you call in the favor they owe you.
So, what part of Michigan are you from if you don't mind my asking. :D
|
Bards are very effective. Don't let people discourage you there. Like any class, they can be poorly built, but so can anything.
There are three primary ways to get gear:
1) There is a universal "always available" list in the pathfinder rule guide. This includes special material gear and +1 enchanted stuff. You can always buy this stuff regardless of fame.
2) You can buy anything on a chronicle sheet assigned to that character.
3) Failing 1 or 2, you then look at your fame rating, NOT current prestige and then consult the magic table you referred to find out the maximum item price you can afford. That's how get stuff not on the universal list and not on a chronicle sheet.
Prestige can be spent many ways. But one way that is very useful at low level is the 2PP for a 750 gp item. CWL wand is always super popular.
Another one for Bards are awesome. Buffs from a bard are extremely helpful, ESPECIALLY when you only have a fighter.
(Although similar in concept, my last game had a witch, fighter, "mystic theurge", and a cleric. It was mostly "Buff buff buff the fighter!" because everyone else was squishy and not made for up front combat... It was made worse by the scenario was made especially to counter casters, and even worse was everything would crush squishies.)
|
|
Bah. Anyone who doesn't want a bard in their party is insane. Tell all those fighters and wizards who dumped Cha that they can make their own Diplomacy checks if they'd prefer you roll up a nice half-orc barbarian with a greatsword. There are no parties which fail to benefit from the addition of a bard.
|
I suspect the reaction to Bards is mainly from old school types, the ones who remember the badly built Bards from 3.5 days, when they were not even very good with Inspire Courgae, much less anything else.
Pathfinder Bards are much more powerful, especially as their primary buff, Inspire Courage, now scales with level. They are also useful for keeping the healing Cleric awake, since they can use the Cure spells to bring up the area healer, if needed.
And, of course, the right selection of spells can go a long way, too.
On Fame:
Whenever you gain Prestige Points, that number is also added to yoru total Fame. When you spend Prestige Points, that number is not subtracted from your Fame.
Fame is just the cumulative total of all Prestige earned.
On purchasing:
Always Available items, listed in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, are available for purchase no matter what your current Fame score is. In general, this includes all campaign-legal mundane items, except firearms, all special materials except Dragonhide, and masterwork and magical weapon and armor up to a plain +1.
Note that items that are not in the Core rulebook or the Pathfindr Society Field Guide require the player to have access to the Paizo rules source for the item, basically a copy of the book it is found in, either hardcopy or watermarked PDF. Note tyhat while the Paizo PRD is a useful resource, it is really only authorized as a rules source for GMs when preparing to run a scenario.
Most chronicles for scenarios (or other sanctioned games) usually include a list of items found during the scenario that are not on the Always Available list. That can lead to apparent absurdities, like a Cloak of Resistance +1 being listed on a Tier 7-11 chronicle, but it is usually the simplest way to handle that. However, it means that, no matter what your current Fame is, these items have been added to that specific PC's (Almost) Always Available list. The Almost is there to handle the (unfortunately) rare cases of some items on the chronicle havng a purchase limit. For purchase limited items, obviously, you can only buy that quantity of them, total, until your Fame would allow you to purchase the item without using the chronicle access. Some of the purchase limited items will not even be available then, usually things that are available in either non-standard quantities or higher than minimum caster level.
Last, but not least, is the Fame limit on purchass. The table should be fairly simple to follow. Until you have X Fame, you cannot buy things of higher value than allowed by the limits of your existing Fame that are not on the Always Available list or on that PC's chronicles.
Starting PCs are limited to Always Available items and whatever special items are listed n their chronicles. Around the same time your PC reaches second level is about when he can start purchasing magic items valued up to, but not beyond, 500 gold.
Te main thing to remember, actually, is that the value of the item you are trying to purchase is the composite cost of the item, not just any current upgrade you are buying.
Upgrading a weapon from +1 to +2 or equivalent (+1, Keen; +1, Seeking; etc.) has a total value, for Fame purposes, of the base weapon plus the 300 gp masterwork cost plus any special modifiers (material, Strength rating for a composite bow, etc.) plus the 2,000 gold for +1, plus the 6,000 gold to make it +2, so something over 8,300 gold value for Fame purposes.
On the subject of using 1 (150 gp) or 2 (750 gp) Prestige for item purchases, this bypasses the Fame limits, but does not bypass the campaign legality requirements. Note that you cannot combine multiple 2 prestige purchases to get a single item worth 1,500 gp, and that you cannot buy something with Prestige and sell it back for gold later. Anything purchased with Prestige like that has a zero (0) gold valu for sales purposes, although it still counts as normal for Fame limits for upgrading as a magical item, if that applies.
Some of the better known, or more popular 2 PP purchases:
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (always handy)
Wand of Infernal Healing (best out of combat healing at low levels)
Wand of Magic Missile (until you have enough spells, and get more than a single missile)
Darkwood masterwork composite longbow with up to a +3 Strength rating
Some additional items for 2 PP:
Wand of Endure Elements (the only effect of higher caster levels is making this harder to dispel)
Wand of Protection from Evil (keep it around to free the Dominated fighter temporarily)
Any 1st level spell which doesn't have any noticeable (or appreciable) change from higher caster levels
My Cleric has a Wand of Bless, since, in most cases, 10 rounds of Bless is going to cover most combats, and that leaves him free to take other spells. The same holds true for spells like Abundant Ammunition, since 10 rounds covers most combats handily.
|
Bard have ALL of the versatility that other classes lack:
- Need an obscure knowledge skill for a faction mission? check
- Half the scenario involves social skills? check
- Buff the entire party every encounter? check
- Backup healer? check
- Skill points to burn? check
On top of all that, you can still be a decent melee combatant.
Bards are very useful in PFS. Don't let anyone discourage you.
|
As others have said:
1) Yes, you can and I highly recommend immediate purchase of a wand of cure light wounds with your first 2 prestige points. It is fairly common to sit down at a table and not have a healing cleric in the group. Even if there is a cleric he might want to use his pells for buffs and his channels for undead blasting.
2) The limits on what you can purchase referes to what you buy with gold. With gold you can purchase anything on the always available list, anything on your chronicle sheets, and anything allowed by your fame score.
3) Bards are awesome in a PFS party. It can be difficult if all you have is 'face' PC's and no one to do damage, but that is a kinda rare occurance. Some people laugh about them because they don't want to play one. The bard is really great at making everyone else more effective, but they usually don't shine on their own. Some people only want to play the one that hacks and blasts not the one that helps others blast and hack. Same reason many don't want to play support clerics.
You are correct that you can re-build the PC completely before it gets to level 2. If you want help; go to the advice forum, post what you've got so far, be sure to tell them it is for PFS play, your general pathfinder gaming experience level, along with what books you have access to use, and what you want it to be able to do.
people here are mostly pretty good at giving useful advice.
|
|
Bards are always undervalued at a table. If you are playing the bard well, the rest of the table feels like everything is working for them. You are the man behind the curtains making sure everyone hits and does good damage, knows what they are hitting, and preventing social situations from going sideways. No one takes direct notice of these things (especially the hits and damage side) but trust me on this: You are contributing tons of damage to the party at higher levels. My PFS bard can almost double my PFS barbarian's damage when you get all the buffs rolling.
|
|
A friend of mine who played a bard (in a 3.5 home game) would keep track of how often other PCs hit their targets (or confirmed crits) due to the bonuses she'd supplied, via Inspire Courage or buff spells, then make sure we all knew how much she'd contributed. :-D
I love bards; I've played them in every edition, going back to 1E AD&D. I have a kitsune bard for PFS which I haven't yet played, but will be starting out at a con this weekend.
Bernard,
Looks like the posters above have you squared away. Really glad you enjoyed your first PFS game and hope to see more posts from you!
Best,
Rob
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
|
I won't rehash what everyone has stated on the purchasing, fame, or prestige questions. I will add another shout out to the bard. I have an bard archeologist available as an option for when I play in Thornkeep this week. I love seeing them either in the party or at the table (player or GM).
|
|
Smart play beats smart builds. Bards are very powerfull because they give you a lot of options to work with. If you lay the bard to the strenghts of other classes then the bard looks weak. If you take advantage of all the options to the bard you will be a powerfull asset to your team. Possibly the most powerfull. Keep in mind you just need to outthink the guy that wrote the mod. If you come at the mod in a different direction then intended you can make it very easy.
|
Final question. Though everyone was nice, there was some subdued laughter when folks found out I was playing a bard. No one was even close to being mean but I did hear someone say they consider a bard to be a waste of a character. I took no offense at all but since I am only level 1 with 1 xp this would be a good time to retrain my character into something else. I felt a bard would be a nice utility character to have around, now I am wondering if I should have made something more direct damaging. I had fun playing the bard though I mostly just inspired courage and dropped a grease spell here and there. Any thoughts on Bards in PFS?
I got a player in my area who lost interest in his lv 3 bard and is starting a new character.
I feel the reasons are due to 1) the support-type nature of the Bard class, which is often easily overlooked and 2) people "expectations"/stereotyping of certain classes. Which leads to 3) Peer pressure and players feeling like they are overlooked in combat or worse, losing sight of what their character ideal.
1) Overlooked -
Just like how certain positions in some sports are preferred/celebrated more then others, so it is the same in a game like Pathfinder.
For example, in soccer, the goal sorcerers get all the attention. While the defenders, who prevents the opposing team from scoring goals, are often quietly overlooked.
So it is the same for support-type builds. You may be handing out a ton of +2s to hit and damage, but everyone's attention is on the Barbarian in the front who is dealing 20-40 points of damage. And not on the Bard who is buffing the Barbarian.
2) Stereotyping -
On the other hand playing a different build, like a more"combative" Bard (dido for a Combat Cleric) is often look down by other players, who expects Bards to buff for them.
Players, in general, seems to have certain expectations of what each class/build "should" or can do. Aka, classes are often stereotyped.
Fighters/Barbs are expected to tanks/DPR, Clerics/Oracles healing/support, Bards buffs, Diplo, knowledge/skill monkeys... etc.
Playing anything different would often lead to other players giving "advice" to the player in question. Aka, peer pressure.
3) Peer Pressure -
The end result is players feeling the peer pressure to conform to what others expect their class to do. Yet deep inside, they are clearly unhappy with this, as it is not what they envision their characters as.
Their original character ideal now gets muddied by the expectations of other players.
The "Bard that leads the party to greater glory, with songs of courage and bravery" becomes the "bard that goes blah, blah, blah = +2 to attack and damage."
Conclusion -
Everyone wants to be a hero, they don't want to be the hero's sidekick. Yet without that sidekick, the hero is so much lesser a hero.
The people who considers a bard a waste of a character, may feel this way. They see a bard as a sidekick, support-class that can only help the party, and not lead it.
Yet a Bard is so much more then a sidekick. The Bard is a role-play treasure trove, who can do so much, with so little effort.
1) Skills, check, 2) Buff, check, 3) Seduce & cheat enemies, check 4) Screw the mind of the GM with crazy behavior check.
As for combat, no problem. You are not a specialist, but you don't lacks for spells, weapons or just catching the attention of every enemy in a 100 foot radius. (Don't go crazy on that last one.)
So are you HAPPY with your Bard character? If yes, go for it!
Don't let others, dictate what YOUR character should be.
Hope this breakdown helps!