my step son is playing a sorcerer and wanted to boost his AC, so i was trying to make an Magic Item to help him, so i wanted to make a robe or bracers that used Mage Armor and Shield, doesnt need to be active at once but it would help if they could. yes i know they wont stack with armors or shields which the spells provides Armor and Shield bonuses and cant be enchanted like armors and shields would.
so the cost(continuous effect)
1st lvl x 1st spell x 2000 (2x continuous effect) = 4000 Mage Armor
1st lvl x 1st spell x 2000 (2xcontinuous effect) = 4000x1.5 = 6000 Shield Spell
so in total 10000g or am i doing it wrong formula wrong?
What you have done is a good first step in pricing an item, but can't be the last. As I am sure you noticed, this comes out WAY cheaper than any AC boosting item in the book. Which is exactly where the next step needs to take you.
You need to look for existing items or formulas that already exist and compare them to the effect you are trying to create. In this case, there is one:
According to the table for this type of thing there are a few formulas that would be applicable
Effect: Armor bonus (enhancement)
Base Price: Bonus squared x 1,000 gp
Example: +1 chainmail
Effect: AC bonus (deflection)
Base Price: Bonus squared x 2,000 gp
Example: Ring of protection 3
Effect: AC bonus (other)
Base Price: Bonus squared x 2,500 gp
Example: Ioun stone (dusty rose prism)
Based on those numbers, then you would get 16,000gp for a +4 armor bonus to AC (the equivalent of a continuous effect Mage Armor spell), which is spot on with the costs of Bracers of Armor +4.
If there is an existing method/formula already in place for the effect that you are trying to create then that is the formula that should be followed.
Next step (if necessary, in this case probably not because it is already spelled out) would be to go look at existing items and see if any are replicating what you want to do.
Sean Mahoney
my step son is playing a sorcerer and wanted to boost his AC, so i was trying to make an Magic Item to help him, so i wanted to make a robe or bracers that used Mage Armor and Shield, doesnt need to be active at once but it would help if they could. yes i know they wont stack with armors or shields which the spells provides Armor and Shield bonuses and cant be enchanted like armors and shields would.
so the cost(continuous effect)
1st lvl x 1st spell x 2000 (2x continuous effect) = 4000 Mage Armor
1st lvl x 1st spell x 2000 (2xcontinuous effect) = 4000x1.5 = 6000 Shield Spell
so in total 10000g or am i doing it wrong formula wrong?
The formulas are not the primary way to price items. The first step it to always compare to existing items first. A continuous Mage Armor effect (+4 armor bonus) is exactly the same as Bracers of Armor +4, so should cost the same as them as well. 16,000gp.
That formula is primarily for items using spells with other effects than those found elsewhere in the table, and for items that don't resemble existing items (magic item pricing is far from an exact science).
For an item providing AC bonuses, you could either use the "armor bonus (enchantment)" formula, or consider existing items.
Since there are already items using the mage armor and shield spells (bracers of armor and ring of force shield), it would be a good idea to select the "based on existing items" method.
I would use bracers of armor as a comparison baseline for the new item's cost. If you want a +4 armor bonus and a +4 shield bonus, for a total AC bonus of +8, the simplest comparison is the bracers of armor +8, which costs 64,000 gp.
But it would be easier (as well as cheaper) to split the bonuses among two different items, and simply use the existing bracers of armor +4 (16,000 gp for +4 armor bonus) and ring of force shield (8,500 gp for +2 shield bonus) items instead of making a custom item.
ok kool thanks for advice, they are still kinda low level atm, so i probably would give him some scrolls or maybe both wand
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Ring of Force Shield actually uses Wall of Force, not Shield, and does something a little different. It's still a pretty good idea of an item for the base for a Shield item. The thing is that the Ring offers a +2 Shield bonus and does occupy a the hand, but does not block Magic Missile (continuous Brooch of Shielding). That's three pretty large boosts that a continuous Shield effect would gain, (and pretty much any characer would want this item, not just casters and Monks).
AC Bonus (not Enhandement) +4 squared (16) x 2,500 gp = 40,000
plus
Continuous Spell Immunity 7 x 4 (21) x 2,000 gp reduced cost for limited use of the spell (50%) = 21,000
plus
Multiple Different Abilities as it is also a Force effect (similar to Ghost Touch Armor) and also sort of similar to a Slotless Item (although the item itself uses a slot, the efect it is similar to does not) = 40,000 + (21,000 x 150%) = 71,500 GP, which seems, in my opinion about right for a continuous Shield spell effect. A little over double the cost for a similar Ring of Protection +4 (32,000gp) that would stack with and do more.
I came up with thi a whole ago.
Amulet of the aprentice's reament
Aura faint abjuration; CL 6th
Slot neck; Price 16,000; Weight —
Description
This clear circular amulet when looked at closely has a slowly moving swirl of color at its center.
When activated this amulet grants:
-a single held mele weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. An enhancement bonus does not stack with a masterwork weapon's +1 bonus on attack rolls.
-Creates a transparent but tangible field of force surrounds the wearer, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC, this armor entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since this armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can't bypass it the way they do normal armor.
-Creates a transparent shield of force that can be wielded as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This bonus applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since it is a force effect. The shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free.
Activation and deactivation of this amulet is an at will, free action.
The wearing of armor or a shield prevents the function of the correlating effect.
Magic Missile's are not stopped by this item.
Construction
Requirements
Feat: Craft Wondrous Item
Spells: shield, mage armor, magic weapon
Special: creator must have been struck by a magic missile an incorporeal creature and a +1 or better weapon
Materials: 10 lbs of powdered quartz
that amulet violates every pricing guideline in the game, zotpox. You're handing out 36k of benefits for 16k. That's a freaking steal.
==Aelryinth
price it out as level one spells not by effect and see what you get.
If you break down level one spells they are very OP.
that amulet violates every pricing guideline in the game, zotpox. You're handing out 36k of benefits for 16k. That's a freaking steal.
==Aelryinth
The armor bonus alone is 16,000gp.
The shield bonus is basically a Ring of Force Shield (8,500gp), increased by 50% as its an additional ability. So 12,750gp.The +1 enhancement to a weapon is 2,000gp, again increased because its an additional ability. So 3,000gp.
Thats a 31,750gp item. At least by my understanding of the pricing guidelines.
price it out as level one spells not by effect and see what you get.
If you break down level one spells they are very OP.
Which is why the very first step to pricing an item is comparing to similar items first, and not the formulas.
ok kool thanks for advice, they are still kinda low level atm, so i probably would give him some scrolls or maybe both wand
Wand of Mage Armor is very cost effective, +4 ac for 1 hour at only 750gp for 50 charges.
NO. A shield spell is not a wall of force spell.
NO. A shield spell is not a wall of force spell.
Your item doesn't have a Shield effect. It has an effect identical to a Ring of Force Shield. Your (very underpriced) item grants:
-Creates a transparent shield of force that can be wielded as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This bonus applies against incorporeal touch attacks, since it is a force effect. The shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free.
Magic Missile's are not stopped by this item.
So, a shield shaped plane of force that grants +2 AC and doesn't protect from magic missiles. Has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance.
While a Ring of Force shield is... a shield shaped plane of force that grants +2 AC and doesn't protect from magic missiles. And has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance.
Magic items are priced on their effect. Same effect, same price. (Until you add on any appropriate modifiers, like the charge for additional abilities in this case.)
ok kool thanks for advice, they are still kinda low level atm, so i probably would give him some scrolls or maybe both wandWand of Mage Armor is very cost effective, +4 ac for 1 hour at only 750gp for 50 charges.
Scrolls or (perhaps partially charged) wands are the way I would go.
Additionally, one of the first items lower level casters seek out is often a lesser extend metamagic rod which can double the duration of 3 spells (of 3rd level or lower for the lesser version) per day. They have a market price of 3k gold, but that price could be reduced as part of a reward - perhaps a grateful hedge mage is willing to sell it closer to creation cost to the adventures who just saved his daughter.
I know I am looking forward to getting one on my lowbie wizard, by 4th level a single casting of Mage Armor would last 8 hours.
If I wanted bracers of armor +4, a ring of force shield, and a +1 mele wpn I would buy them.
I want an amulet that cast mage armor, shield and magic wpn at will.
The price desparity between 3 level one spells in the amulet and the force effects that the above items lack is huge.
So what is the answer???
Make access to thies effects afordable to mid level (6-10) pc's or price 3 level one spells beond the reach of mid level pc's?
The shield spell grants +4 to ac and immunity to Magic Missile's and is a force effect. The amulet only gives +2 to ac and drops the Magic Missile immunity.
I think they used wall of force instead of shield in the construction of the ring of force shield to boost the price.
Dot
If I wanted bracers of armor +4, a ring of force shield, and a +1 mele wpn I would buy them.
I want an amulet that cast mage armor, shield and magic wpn at will.
The price desparity between 3 level one spells in the amulet and the force effects that the above items lack is huge.
So what is the answer???
Make access to thies effects afordable to mid level (6-10) pc's or price 3 level one spells beond the reach of mid level pc's?
Even if you used the other formulas, your price is still wrong. If there is no limit on uses, and you can keep activating the effect as it ends with only a free action, you basically have a continuous item.
Continuous items are spell level x caster level x 2000, with an additional modifier for duration. They are all first level spells, at caster level 6, so thats 12,000gp for each ability. Mage Armor doesn't get a modifier for duration. The Shield effect has a x2 multiplier, as shield only lasts 1 minute/level. The same applies to Magic Weapon.
Then you have the modifiers for combining all of the effects into a single item. The Shield effect costs 24,000gp. The Magic Weapon effect costs an additional 50% because its an additional effect, so 36,000gp. The Mage Armor effect also has that additional multiplier, and costs 18,000gp. So using the formulas, and basing the price on the spells used, it costs 78,000gp. Not 16,000gp.
(If the item wasn't continuous, but command activated, the price would only drop to 43,200gp. If the item was command activated, with only 2 uses per day, then you could get the price down to 17,280gp. But that would require a standard action to activate, not a free action as your item does. And as listed, your item doesn't have a daily limit on usage.)
Any way you look at it, your pricing is wrong.
If I wanted bracers of armor +4, a ring of force shield, and a +1 mele wpn I would buy them.
I want an amulet that cast mage armor, shield and magic wpn at will.
The price desparity between 3 level one spells in the amulet and the force effects that the above items lack is huge.
So what is the answer???
Make access to thies effects afordable to mid level (6-10) pc's or price 3 level one spells beond the reach of mid level pc's?
Even if you used the other formulas, your price is still wrong. If there is no limit on uses, and you can keep activating the effect as it ends with only a free action, you basically have a continuous item.
Continuous items are spell level x caster level x 2000, with an additional modifier for duration. They are all first level spells, at caster level 6, so thats 12,000gp for each ability. Mage Armor doesn't get a modifier for duration. The Shield effect has a x2 multiplier, as shield only lasts 1 minute/level. The same applies to Magic Weapon.
Then you have the modifiers for combining all of the effects into a single item. The Shield effect costs 24,000gp. The Magic Weapon effect costs and additional 50% because its an additional effect, so 36,000gp. The Mage Armor effect also has that additional multiplier, and costs 18,000gp. So using the formulas, and basing the price on the spells used, it costs 78,000gp. No 16,000gp.
(If the item wasn't continuous, but command activated, the price would only drop to 43,200gp. If the item was command activated, with only 2 uses per day, then you could get the price down to 17,280gp. But that would require a standard action to activate, not a free action as your item does. And as listed, your item doesn't have a daily limit on usage.)
Any way you look at it, your pricing is wrong.
This is pretty much precisely why, before allowing crafting, people need to understand and tune the crafting process. Just because there is a formula to make Mage Armor permanent for 4,000gp or so, doesn't mean it's right when there's an item like Bracers of Armor which give the same effect for 16,000gp
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Zotpox, Meowmix, here's the rub, as I see it.
In your home game, you can create and award anything that you want. Just give it as treasure, or a boon from an NPC, or whatever. Don't worry about the price, just realize what you are giving out, and realize that it may make the characters (significantly) more powerful than their WBL would normally be.
However, here is the caveat... these items will not be portable. They'll be useful in your home game, but perhaps not for someone else's home game, or even PFS.
It is your game... do with it as you will.
I will say that a device like Zotpox is proposing really does overcome much of the weaknesses of arcane casters (poor AC, etc).
Really, wands are a great way to go... very cheap (in the long run), and effective! Mage Armor is far more effective than Shield in this case, because of the longer duration, but YMMV.
yea i see what your talking about silbeg, reason why i have to calculate the gold reward from killing monsters. its harder to find loot for my step son (playing a draconic sorcerer) and step daughter(playing a "dancing" bard), for the rest of the group they are super easy to give such as a fighter,rogue and 2 barbarians. also i have to play the npc cleric because no one wants to be healer >_< anywho, i wanted to make some cheap and effective gear for them because they are still beginners and i dont want to bore them
A potion of mage armor is cheap - 50gp. It is consumed when used, but would grant a +4 armor bonus for a hour. Finding a small crate of them (Say, half a dozen to a dozen) could hold them over until they get a little higher in level, and can afford a better option. (You don't need the effects constantly, just when your are in danger in combat.)
Though a wand can actually be cheaper. Its 750gp, but has 50 charges. 50 potions would cost 2,500gp.
Why can't you just enchant clothes to give armor bonuses? Take a wiz/ monk robe, slap some enhancement and armor properties on them. Call it a day. A +5 shirt of fire resistant silent moves isn't gonna break the game.
So by droping the magic wpn effect I have a 48k amulet that gives +8 to ac and stops Magic Missile's all via force effects that I can turn on and off at will.
The action econemy might be worth it at that.
if the item gives +8 to AC its price starts at 64k. Adding magic missiles just makes it higher.
==Aelryinth
ZotPox, in what sourcebook did you find that amulet?
to answer the original question of the thread. I would, like many others, recommend a wand of mage armor, and potions of shield.
OK,
Some pricing concerns here.
You want:
1.) A +4 Armor Bonus from Mage Armor.
2.) A +4 Shield Bonus from Shield.
3.) Immunity to Magic Missle from Shield.
4.) Activate as a free action
5.) "At will" unlimited use.
So the closest thing I can think of is an item that emulates a mystic theurge's ability to allow you to cast two spells at each activation. Making it use activated.
So costs would be Quickened Shield (9 x 5 x 2000 = 90,000 gp), Quickened Mage Armor (9 x 5 x 2,000 = 90,000 gp), Spell Synthesis ability (16 x 5 x 2,000 = 160,000).
So, 160,000 gp + (90,000 gp x 1.5 = 135,000 gp) + (90,000 gp x 1.5 = 135,000 gp) = 430,000 gp...
This still uses a swift rather than a free and only lasts 9 minutes on the shield portion and only 9 hours on the mage armor portion.
This is way too expensive.
As a continuous effect costs would be based on the armor and bonuses gained so (4 x 4 x 1,000 = 16,000 gp)[Mage armor], (4 x 4 x 2,500 = 40,000 gp)[Shield], immunity to magic missile (Broach of shielding is 1,500gp and absorbs ~29 missiles before becoming useless. meaning each missile is worth ~52 gp. if we price for 100 missiles then the gp value is 5,200 gp).
So 40,000 gp + (16,000 x 1.5 = 24,000 gp) + (5,200 x 1.5 = 7,800 gp) = 71,800 gp or as I like round numbers call it 72,000 gp even.
This is a much better pricing scheme.
When we compare it to bracers of armor +8 (64,000 gp) and a broach of shielding (1,500 gp) we see we are paying 8,500 more gp for three benefits.
1.) Complete immunity to magic missile rather than only limited amounts of hitpoint immunity.
2.) Having a split Armor and Shield bonus thus allowing for the eventual upgrade of the Armor bonus if desired.
3.) Using only one slot rather than two.
This feels balanced to me and is in line with other items. I would allow it.
Amulet not from sourcebook (its one of my half done ideas)
The point of the amulet is action and item slot econemy for a wizard's defence.
Shield and Mage armor + premenancy?
Flavor is king make an intelligent robe that cast both shield and mage armor 3 times a day... insert someone who is not on there phone to help with pricing
Why can't you just enchant clothes to give armor bonuses? Take a wiz/ monk robe, slap some enhancement and armor properties on them. Call it a day. A +5 shirt of fire resistant silent moves isn't gonna break the game.
Silken Ceremonial Armor works for this - it has no armor check penalty, max dex, or arcane spell failure. At base it's +1 armor, and if masterwork it can be enhanced like any other armor.
Likewise a Mithral Buckler is a shield that has no check penalty or arcane spell failure and can be enhanced as a shield, though it's way more expensive than masterwork silken ceremonial armor (sadly basic bucklers have 5% spell failure).
But if a monk wears it then they lose out big.
Just wondering if the faq on magic item creation has been released? I know there was a thread about it coming sometime in 2013, just not sure when. Hoping I did not miss it.
Thanks,
+J