Hey guys, looking for some advice. it's been several years since I roleplayed in any fashion (7 years). Myself and some old college buddies are contemplating starting up again. We purchase the Pathfinder core rule book and the first bestiary. I also purchased the rise of the runelords AP book because I was elected to GM and I figured it was easier to get back to the swing of things with a adventure path. I was wondering is there anything else we need to get started. besides dice and maps lol.
we all have some experience roleplaying (the same 5 guys since ADD days), but not so much with tabletop formats. Is it worth getting the mini's or is there a more affordable alternative?
I really thankful for any advice in this matter. we all got excited when we saw the Pathfinder rulebook at a local bookstore. It brought back great memories and we wish to make a few more.
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Hi, welcome back to the dark side.
I have found the best and most cost effective way is the bestiary box (all the monsters from the Bestiary). They provide good quality cardboard figures. Also if your doing one of the more recent Adventure Paths like Rise of the runelords or Skull and Shackles they have cardboard mini’s made just for those for about $20 which is pretty decent.
Alternatively you can just use coins or anything you find around the house for the cheapest option.
I find the rules while not requiring mini’s it does make the whole thing easier regarding attacks of opportunity and suchlike.
Have fun
Sic
First and formost, welcome back to Roleplaying and welcome to pathfinder.
Second, there are lots of useful tools to help you run paizo ap particularly rise of the runelords.
First there are the players guides for each ap. I assume you got the recently release hardcover version of the adventure and not the soft cover ones? Send your players the Players Guide It gives advice on making a character for this campaign, and also offers campaign traits (highly advised) to make sure the characters backstory is tied into the advneture.
Next, the best asset for any paizo adventure is the message boards. Specifically the ap message boards for your specific adventure. Need some advice? The 100 gm army is there to back you up. All of them are fairly active and there is a LOAD of content and advice for running the ap here
Last I find it worth picking up the minis but thats up to you if you think its worth it or not to throw down that much money. The prepainted plastics are a great time saver, but they also are expensive to get teh whole set. But Paizo has the pawn set to reduce costs if you are looking for an affordable option, you would need the Rise of the Runelords Pawn Set which covers most of the specific monsters for the adventure (but not all) and the bestiary box which is need for both basic monster types and the bases which dont come with the runelords pawn set.
Thank you Sic,
I was just reading up on the the card board figures. I think i'm going to go that route. I must say I am having a blast just reading the core rule book. Man has the game really changed but it looks like for the better.
Do you think I should limit all the PC's to just characters in the core rule book? Until I get a firm grasp of the rules at least. I already have a friend wanting to play a gunslinger he found on the internet lol. I'm old school I like my fanatsy gun free.
Is it worth it to purchase the game master guide as well? The flip maps also look really helpful are they?
Thanks for any help you can give in advance.
Thanks Kolokotroni,
I am downloadeing the PDF of the Player's guide for help with Character creation. we are planning to meet this weekend to make everyones characters.
I must admitt everyone saw the figures and thought WarHammer, but it not like that all. we all had a fear that the roleplaying was gone from rpg's and that is what we enjoyed the most.
we are all really excited to get back to the swing of things and slay some goblins to boot.
thanks for your advice.
I use to buy "random lots" of figures from www.trollandtoad.com, but I just looked and I didn't see that much. However, you can ask them through email for some of those "random lots", (which I did once) and they were very responsive. There were some selections there the later that day or the next day.
Thanks Kolokotroni,
I am downloadeing the PDF of the Player's guide for help with Character creation. we are planning to meet this weekend to make everyones characters.
I must admitt everyone saw the figures and thought WarHammer, but it not like that all. we all had a fear that the roleplaying was gone from rpg's and that is what we enjoyed the most.
we are all really excited to get back to the swing of things and slay some goblins to boot.
thanks for your advice.
The detailed minis are there to add to your roleplay not to take away from it. I really like being able to put the actual guy down on the board when we go into an encounter. It can keep the players engaged and is as good if not better then showing a picture of the npcs and monsters.
That said i've played with a go board and coins instead, and the game works just fine, so its certainly not a wargame. Though there are a few tactical elements to the game (like area effects and attacks of opportunity) that are based strictly around the battle map, its really only as wargamy as you make it. Players can 'move minis around a map' or you can describe and illustrate your characters actions, its up to you.
As far as allowing characters, I'd recommend at least initially sticking to the core rules, in particular the gunslinger and summoner have a set of rules that might be difficult for a new gm to manage since they are exceptions to most rules. That is not to say you couldnt have a gunslinger in your rise of the runelords adventure, just keep in mind it may complicate alot of encounters with their exceptions to alot of basic rules (like attacking mostly against touch ac, their high gold price for weapons and ammunicition, and the frustrating reload and misfire rules).
thanks guys for all your help
Since you're an experienced gamer, yet a beginner to Pathfinder, you might want to read over this entire thread:
What are some things about the Pathfinder rules that you think most people do not know?
Another recommendation for the Core rule book classes only. Made exceptions for extra stuff on a case by case basis, but you don't need anything more, especially for your first play through.
Honestly, I'd recommend getting the Beginner's Box. I shied away from it when I got into Pathfinder after a 10+ year absence from role playing. I told myself that I might have been a bit rusty but I was no beginner.
Except that Pathfinder is a game with a lot of complex rules. It's really difficult to learn all of those rules at once while still trying to play an effective character. (I don't even want to think about the GM challenge!) The beginner box is designed to introduce people to the game in a manageable manner, and it had a premade module adventure. It's akin to getting a drink of water from a faucet instead of having the boys at the Hoover Dam open up one of those monstrously sized water gates for you. ;)
The box also comes with figures and a map, so you may be able to have your cake and eat too. Be sure to check out the extra resources available free by download.
But assuming you don't want to spend extra on the BBox, I'd stick with Core. I'd also not dive immediately into an AP. Play a couple of modules first so that everyone can get their feet wet. Preferably low level modules, as it's best to work your way to high level rather than diving right into it.
Also, be aware that characters are EXTREMELY fragile at level 1 and 2. Just about anything can kill a first level character, so be sure to warn your players and keep it in mind as the GM.
Thanks guys,
we actually looked at the beginners box at first. I think I might buy it on my way home from work tonight. That way this weekend (Sunday) we can run through it with the pre made characters.
Thanks for the insight. the entire group has roleplayed before were just really rusty lol ( it's been a few years for some of us about 10), and I think this is prob the best way to learn all rules that have changed in the last 7 to 10 years.
Either way it should be a blast. I must say the one thing that hasn't changed is the community. Roleplayers are some of the nicest people around.
thanks again
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I would also go with core classes to start; baby steps and all that. Unless you’re looking to go with the pirate campaign as that practically screams gunslinger and flintlocks. … So in that instance I would allow the gunslinger. This is the only campaign I would really allow this class as I prefer my games gun free also.
As mentioned the Players guides are pretty awesome and Rise of the Runelords has the most amount of available information.
Never having seen the beginners box I can’t comment but it is supposed to be a very good place to start so I have heard.
The flip mats are great, I have several of them as they are relatively cheap and come in handy all the time. The basic one gets the most use obviously and is well worth the investment; it is pretty rugged as I have had mine for a year or more of gaming 2-3 times a week and it’s still looking good. Just gave it a wipe down last Thursday with a damp cloth and it comes up like new.
All in all have fun and as you have noticed ask a question here and you will get several answers in a short time. They may not all agree and I would be surprised if they did but you will get several opinions and some may even be useful but all are amusing.
Sic
Though there are a few tactical elements to the game (like area effects and attacks of opportunity) that are based strictly around the battle mapThat's not exactly true Kolokotroni. Area of Effects have always been in the game, including the era where battlemaps were seldom used (despite D&D's wargaming roots ;] )
As for AoEs and Attacks of Opportunity, I find they work just fine via Battlefield of the Mind play, which is my preferred style (being both the one I started with and the one I GM with.)
It can take some work to teach players to visualize the battlefield and properly detail their own character's movements and such, but I can't imagine a more fun way to play.
PS: Pun was totally unintended, but when I noticed it I couldn't stop myself from italicizing it for the laughs.
I know area effects have always been a part of the game, but they have a certain tactical feel to them in the modern game, particularly control spells like create pit. This has strong visual tactical element as you both drop opponents into it but also use it to limit enemy movement, or to push enemies towards it. When that sort of thing gets physically put on a battle map it adds a certain amount of tactical movement, that wasnt as pronounced way back when.
Like i said its only as tactical as you make it, but its definately there.
Being someone who starting roleplaying using the battlefield of the mind method. I can relate to what Kyrt is saying, but with that said I'm differently going to try with my group the battle map methods.
It has been so long since we played. we want to experience everything Pathfinder has to offer. I think it should enhance the experience of gameplay even though it might take a while getting use to.
Thanks Kyrt
Though there are a few tactical elements to the game (like area effects and attacks of opportunity) that are based strictly around the battle mapThat's not exactly true Kolokotroni. Area of Effects have always been in the game, including the era where battlemaps were seldom used (despite D&D's wargaming roots ;] )
As for AoEs and Attacks of Opportunity, I find they work just fine via Battlefield of the Mind play, which is my preferred style (being both the one I started with and the one I GM with.)
It can take some work to teach players to visualize the battlefield and properly detail their own character's movements and such, but I can't imagine a more fun way to play.
PS: Pun was totally unintended, but when I noticed it I couldn't stop myself from italicizing it for the laughs.
If I understand you correctly, a "battlefield of the mind" is a play style where you don't use battle maps and minis, but instead describe and imagine the entire battle.
If that is correct, allow me to give an opinion from someone who played that way for nearly 2 decades and absolutely hates it. Although, to be fair, I didn't realize how much I disliked it until I experienced what it was like to play with a battlemap.
It is very easy to misunderstand and abuse that system.
GM: Round 1, they're in firing range.
Players: We use our ranged weapons!
GM: Round 2, there are in melee with you, and there are 2 of them on each of you. They attack.
Player: wait, how did they get in so fast? my fighter was protecting the wizard. Do I get an AoO? Why do they automatically get 2 to a character? Shouldn't they have charged? How far away is each character from each other? Can I reach the rogue's opponents from where I stand?
Every time I played, those issues came up in one form or another. Every single battle was one that required clarifying questions and usually gave contradictory answers, as a battle can be difficult to keep track of (especially when there are a lot of players).
A battlemap with minis is useful, because it lets everyone play on the same field (no confusion about who is imagining what), and it requires the GM to play by the same rules as everyone else.
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Welcome back!
First let me say I am big fan of mini's, and flip-mats so with that caveat read on.
Like a picture is worth a thousand words I think using minis and maps are worth a thousand words. Not to take away from battlefield of the mind, but I would rather plunk down some minis and tiles, or draw the map on a flip-mat and get down to business with a minimal amount of verbal description.
Some game developers once trolled the cons and noticed that most players often started to zone out after a couple of sentences of description. I know my group does.
It really all depends on what you and your players like, are comfortable with and what works for the group.
If they are uncomfortable playing with minis, or tokens then maybe the battle field of the mind is the way to go for your group, assuming they are also OK with lengthy descriptions. If they like (or at least dont mind) using minis, then minis / pawns could add a very fun element to the game. In addition to minis, there are also pathfinder pawns, and paper minis.
If you are not sure what the group would like try out some different methods and see what works best for you.
I have been playing for 20+ years now and I find the use of minis to be so much easier than arguing with players about what PC was where, and what monster was there. Additionally the Pathfinder are essentially a variation of 3.x rules and both rules sets were written around the use of minis or tokens.
All that said following would my list of necessities
1. core rule book & bestiary and / or starter set
2. each player with their own set of dice
3. a blank flip mat and wet erase marker
4. pencils, scrap paper etc.
5. A comfortable place to play at. if you are using minis and mats make sure its a surface everyone has easy visible and physical access to.
6. a place to play where you wont be interrupted by non-players, spouses, friends, SO's, children, dogs etc.
7. an adventure
8. minis / tokens / pawns to represent pc's and monsters*
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Miniatures are optional. You can be the boot from Monopoly, no one cares. Dig around the house, maybe you can find a Lego guy or something.
True story, I GMd a game at a con, and when the players got to a rocky area, I put a bunch of terrain out for them to maneuver around. I was asked immediately "Wow, where did you get those?"
I said "There's this great place, it's called THE GROUND. It's not a special gaming rock, it's just a rock."
Thanks guys for all your great insight. We are differently going to try using maps and minis. I think it will make combat run smoothly not to mention easier to keep track of all the pc's positions. I just ordered rise of the runelords minis set today as well as a few flip mats.
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Spiggs, if it's not too late you might also check out the Pathfinder Paper Minis. They have complete sets for every part of Runelords, as well as NPC's for Sandpoint. And the price is right. Assuming you have a colour printer, scissors, & glue, and you can get some cardstock.
Welcome back :)
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Spiggs, if it's not too late you might also check out the Pathfinder Paper Minis. They have complete sets for every part of Runelords, as well as NPC's for Sandpoint. And the price is right. Assuming you have a colour printer, scissors, & glue, and you can get some cardstock.
Welcome back :)
+1 to this. I've picked up the sets for Skill and Shackles, and even though I'm replacing the paper minis with painted metals as the campaign develops I still find them to be very useful indeed.
If you're just getting back into RPGs and don't have a lot of painted minis to start with, these are a great way to go.