Help with evil sorcerer / wizard concept (new campaign)


Advice

Sovereign Court

Hey everyone,

My local gaming store is starting up weekly Pathfinder pick-up-games, in addition to their weekly PFS games. I want to give you as much background on the story as possible, and a general idea of what I'd like to do, then I would really appreciate it if I could have some suggestions for this class.

Basically, many years ago a large group of adventurer's retired from adventuring, and spent their gold to build this small town where they could live the civilian life. They have all passed away now, and our group are their descendants who now are the inhabitants of the town. Each of us starts off at level 1, with a basic (VERY basic) equipment kit, but we are allowed one +1 magic item (weapon, armor, ring, etc) that is assumed to be our birthright from our descendent.

I had the idea and was approced by the DM to be a caster, either sorcerer or wizard, who is that sterotypical character that starts off just sorta being a jerk, but eventually turns evil. My goal for this character, as a cool plot for the other players, is to basically turn him into the main antagonist near the end, retiring him and letting the DM take control of him for the final few scenarios. Throughout the campaign though, I will sneakily be killing people in the town, causing trouble, etc obviously scaling in degree depending on how far into the campaign we get.

For spells, I'm thinking mostly enchantments, illusions, and necromancy. Basically I see this guy in the final fight using telekensis, cursing, tricking via illusions, murdering civilians with finger o' death/disintegrate, teleporting/making dimensional doors (not enchanting, necro, or illusion, I know) to regain combat advantage, etc. Just be that badass evil sorcerer from movies and books.

Any suggestions as far as a build, helpful spells that I had not thought about, class, etc?


Let's see.

SORCERER

Serpentine Bloodline: get some cool fluff, a bite attack, and the ability to have Charm/Dominate Person apply to EVERYTHING. Excellent setup for a villain.

Fey Bloodline: +2 to Compulsion DCs. Want to specialize in enchantment and mess with enemies and NPC's heads? Go for this.

WIZARD

Illusion Specialist (Mage of the Veil): Why not? All sorts of fun things you can do with illusions; off the top of my head, create an illusion of an orc encompassing a random bystander and watch his best friend murder him. Muahaha.

Plenty of good ideas. You really are limited only by your imagination.

Sovereign Court

Thanks for the reply, I'd love to hear more. Basically, I want this character to be as interesting of a plot villian as possible, since in the final conflict he will be the main bad guy no longer controlled by me.

Sovereign Court

Also, what might be a good choice for this characters one magic item? There's a staff (or rod... of alertness maybe?) that has spells like prot. good/evil/chaos/etc, light I think, and some other stuff that looked cool. But maybe something would be even better. Staff of enchanting, for instance.


One magic item, eh? Hmm... How about a Ring of Spell Knowledge I/II? It's a handy little thing that gives a spontaneous arcane caster an extra spell known; better yet, a spell known that can be changed with a simple spellcraft check. Even better, if you have a level II one, you can learn a first-level spell from ANY class.

Sovereign Court

you said spontaneous caster..would that mean that a wizard couldn't use it?

What about stats? Obviously, wiz = int, sorc = cha, but what would be a good layout? Either roll 4d6, drop 1 method or 20 point buy are the methods that we can use. What feats would benefit this villain the most?

I'm not usually a caster, so you'll have to excuse the barrage of questions.


A wizard couldn't use it.

I'd really recommend digging out a sorcerer guide. I could post a link but I'm too lazy; google 'Pathfinder Sorcerer Guide'. Basically, max out Cha and put a decent bit in Dex and slightly less in Con. Dump Str if you want.

Sovereign Court

Also, I was thinking of maybe playing this character as if he wasn't a caster, so it would confuse the other players even more when he came out as the bad guy. I thought I could have a meh strength (it would be believable, because I usually play weird RP mechanics in my characters anyway. A weakling that wants to be a warrior is right up my ally, RP-wise) like 14, carrying a sword and getting light armor prof., casting only basic spells in the beginning in front of people. I can easily argue that the spell comes from the ring (or whatever magic item I choose).

What do ya'll think about this idea? Too much, or is it an interesting twist? My DM said I could even have a fake Fighter character sheet on the front page, with my real stats and stuff, so if anyone saw my sheet it would be believable. After all, RP-wise, no one would immediately know my wiz/sorc was a caster unless if he casted or referred to himself as such. He can say he's a fighter or whatever all day long.


Ehhhh... sounds like too much hard work to me. I'd more recommend that you say you're a Sorcerer/Wizard but understate your abilities; cast mostly Hastes and a few Battlefield Control spells, maybe a few evocations, keep your specialization in Enchantment and Illusion as a surprise.


Tellis wrote:
starts off just sorta being a jerk, but eventually turns evil.

Being a jerk works better as a Wizard - Sorcerers have the charisma to pull off the "lovable rascal" routine.

Sovereign Court

See, I was leaning more towards a wizard, but I wanted opinion on what this guy sounded like from you all. I just don't picture this guy running out of spells really. I feel like he'd be specialized in certain spells, and just keep casting (once he's out as the bad guy of course). I like sorc for being able to cast any spells that you know, but being able to cast unlimited what you've memorized seems nice too.

Sovereign Court

I wish I had someone to compare this character to.. I feel like i've seen/read about him a ton of times, but I can't put my finger on who I'm imagining this guy being. An opportunist who, while being strong in his own right, makes sure to stack the deck to his favor. Mind controlling, Memory lapse, illusions, etc to make sure he is on top and to hide him from everyone chasing after and knowing its him doing it. Very manipulative. Like I said, the final fight I've pictured him immediately plane shifting to a plane that the assailants will have a harder time to fight him in, because he knows he needs the benefit. That's just the way this guy will think constantly.

He may seem redemptive at times, or like he wants to change or can't control it, but its just part of the trick to get someone close enough for a touch attak or to give him time to turn invisible and run.


Tellis, you do know that Wizards, like Sorcerers and all casters, have limited spells-per-day? Every caster can eventually run out of spells (excepting 0th-level spells)

Sovereign Court

Really? I didn't notice that from the character generator. With sorcerer, it says like I have 4 level 3 spells, 2x day or something like that. But on wizard, it just says who many level 3 spells that I have memorized. It doesn't have the uses/day anywhere that I see.

Herolabs & pcgen creator

Sovereign Court

what's the difference between sorcerer and wizard then? Wizard just seems like a limited sorcerer.


Sorcerers are spontaneous casters and wizards need their spellbooks to have spells prepared.

So a sorcerer who gets 3 x 3rd level spells can can ANY of his known 3rd level spells 3x/day.

Example:
Sorcerer knows Fireball, lightning bolt, and dispel magic. He can cast 3x fireballs or 3x lightning bolts, or 3x dispel magic. He can cast 2x fireball and 1x lightning bolt, or 1 of each. He can cast ANY combination of the 3 spells he sees fit after 8 hours of rest each day.

A wizard is limited to being able to cast what he has prepared after resting and studying his spellbook. So if he knew those three spells and learned them for the day he'd only be able to cast 1x of each of them. Or he could prepare 2x fireball and 1x lightning bolt, but he wouldn't be able to cast any more of them.

Wizards end up with having more spells in the end, being able to cast more per day.

Does that make sense?

Sovereign Court

It does, I just had not understood it that way before now. Thanks for informing me ub3r and Arkwright.

Shadow Lodge

I'd recommend Sorcerer, using Cha as your casting stat and having Bluff as a class skill will be a big help in hiding your growing evil from the party. I'll also second the recommendation for Serpentine bloodline- poison is great flavor for an evil caster.


Is your DM okay with you being evil? It could cause much more trouble if the other players get mad.

Sovereign Court

As mentioned in the original post, I have permission and I would not be publically evil until my character actually becomes a NPC. Once my character fully is evil, I'm retiring from the campaign and he's becoming the main antagonist for the other players.


Why just not have the DM NPC him instead? I know that I would not want to play in a group where a player was working against us and then becomes the bad guy.


I've actually thought about doing something similar in a game. Basically it'd be me helping co-GM the campaign with my character being the inside guy for the BBEG starting out. Then further along it could play out in many different ways with the PC either becoming the BBEG in the end and turning on the other PCs or he could turn his back on his boss and become redeemed. It would be interesting to play out and see what happens I think.


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Shalafi2412 wrote:
Why just not have the DM NPC him instead? I know that I would not want to play in a group where a player was working against us and then becomes the bad guy.

Because it'll be more of a shock if an actual fellow player betrays them all - a lot of groups assume reflexively that NPCs _always_ plan on doublecrossing them.

Sovereign Court

thanks ub3r and arbane for that -- both of those things are the reason that I wanted to do this. First off, I am by far the most experienced player in these pick up groups. So I don't mind sacrificing the playability of my character and actually being in the last fight to give everyone else an awesome play experience. And yes, I think when a NPC dies, double-crosses, etc, it's hard to really get involved. But if it's someone that you've sat beside for weeks, it becomes even easier to get into your character's role.

That moment when everything clicks -- the murders that you all have been investigating in town, the person who left kindly Mr. So-and-so's body in the town square to be found be all, the person who poisoned the water supply -- was someone who you have played with for a few months and had done all of those things under your nose. You're mandated to be personally involved at that point, I think. And I'm hoping it will make for a great game experience for the other players.

Lantern Lodge

I know this is gonna be a relatively odd question to ask since ur gonna play a caster but what is the tech level of the game? The reason for me asking is because i have an evil idea that u can do that most people dont do primarily because of cost but would work wonder in the battle field if done.

Sovereign Court

I'm not sure, truth be known. The DM essentially just told me what I told you all in the original post. I do know that it's supposed to be relatively low fantasy, as in the magic items that we start off with a relatively rare in the world to possess.

As far as tech, not sure. I'd love to hear the idea though };)


I am inclined to suggest a witch, makes for a great villain.

Thematically I like sorcerer better than a wizard, perhaps make it wisdom based and add on a monk level.

You could go for an eldritch knight build if you want to pass yourself off as a martial type. Possibly an anti-paladin with sorcerer levels. A gunslinger / wizard (spellslinger archetype) might be fun depending on the campaign.

I'd even consider arcane trickster because it is an excellent class to be sneaky and eventually 'backstab' the party. Can enter it as an alchemist vivisectionist 3 wizard 3 for example. Though ninja 3 sorcerer 4 appeals to me as well.

Lantern Lodge

Constructs. There a tad expensive but there loyal minions that will never turn against u and will do what ever u ask of them. A properly designed construct can wreak havoc on people. In the game im playing currently i have a construct with a humanoid body that has 12 other constructs on it, Run Guardians, and a Rifle located in one of its arm slots. Rifle does nice sniper shots while the Rune Guardians detach and use at will Magic Missile attacks every round. There is 4 Rune Guardians on its front torso, back torso, 2 on each leg and 2 on each arm. Im currently saving up to build me a another construct with Rocket packs on its shoulders, in its torso, an on the sides of its legs, with its arms/hands acting as Flame throwers with Burning Hands or Dragon Breath Perma enchanted on it. Btw Rocket packs are perfectly doable in a game that has access to fireworks. Reason being is the Chinese. The only problem with Mr. Rockets is that it cant reload it self so some one else will have to do that for it.

Sovereign Court

@annoyingorange, I don't know a single thing about witches. I will have to go home tonight and look up a guide or something to get a flavor for them. Nothing is automatically ruled out in this character, so any idea is really valuable to me.

Why would you do a wisdom-based sorc, as opposed to a charisma based.

@psion-psycho, that idea is pretty E-VIL, but I don't know if we'll be quite that tech savvy. I think about the closest that I could get is a shield golem.

Lantern Lodge

U dont want golems because they cost 2-5x as much as constructs and all of them have a weakness of some sort. The Rune Guardians should definitly be available to u. A construct u could pull off would be a horseless cart with a canon pointed out the front with repeating crossbow mounted on a pedestal on each side to act as turrets. This War Wagon would be a great means of transportation as well as dominant fire power.

Lantern Lodge

Also another idea playing off the Constructs is making cloud killers. Using alchemy u could make canisters of heavy poison gas and place it in a flying construct. Have the construct swoop over villages carpeting the areas in poison. It wont work against mid-high level characters but against those low level nameless NPCs it should be able to get the job done nicely. Also u could use the same tactic but with grease or some other flammable substance and have the same construct light it on the return by dropping a single dose alchemist fire. Both ways will rack up those evil points since u will be committing mass murder, destruction of property, disturbing the peace, and in some cases genocide.

Sovereign Court

now THAT is a good idea (the second one)


Wizard
Enchantment/charm Controller specialist
Illusion as a backup

Have him manipulate the perception of those around the victem while manipulateing the victem at the same time.

Victems quote: "It wasant ME it was the 1 armed man."

Have him start out with little things like acting out when he dosent get his way and so on, have this ramp up quickley to forceing npc's to commit atrocitys to shift the groups attntion away from him so he can do as he pleases.


Tellis wrote:

@annoyingorange, I don't know a single thing about witches. I will have to go home tonight and look up a guide or something to get a flavor for them. Nothing is automatically ruled out in this character, so any idea is really valuable to me.

Why would you do a wisdom-based sorc, as opposed to a charisma based.

@psion-psycho, that idea is pretty E-VIL, but I don't know if we'll be quite that tech savvy. I think about the closest that I could get is a shield golem.

wisdom based mainly for the add on of a monk level which boosts defenses by quite a bit, which might be a good thing depending on the party's covered characters.

Lantern Lodge

Psion-Psycho wrote:
Also another idea playing off the Constructs is making cloud killers. Using alchemy u could make canisters of heavy poison gas and place it in a flying construct. Have the construct swoop over villages carpeting the areas in poison. It wont work against mid-high level characters but against those low level nameless NPCs it should be able to get the job done nicely. Also u could use the same tactic but with grease or some other flammable substance and have the same construct light it on the return by dropping a single dose alchemist fire. Both ways will rack up those evil points since u will be committing mass murder, destruction of property, disturbing the peace, and in some cases genocide.

Also with this in mind u should get the Animate Undead spells and make all those villagers undead minions of urs to use as u see fit.

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